(Possible) Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson study group

[RflctnOfU]

I haven't seen this topic posted, AND it's been a desire/need of mine for a while, so I figured I'd take the plunge into the 'administrator role' and put some feelers out about a BT's study/discussion group. I have some ideas about a possible 'syllabus', and if interest is shown, I will formalize the syllabus and create threads for each section.

Part of the reason for this, is that there ARE NO possibilities of a 'local' study group. The problem in this regard is that I have only met ONE person in the flesh who knew who Gurdjieff was, let alone be familiar with his texts. Also, in a general sense, the 'authorities' (re published writers) on G's texts prove G's ideas about wiseacring - as my impression of the books I've read - again, in a general sense - show some ideas of interest, but leaves me thinking that GROKKING his writings escape most.

SOOooooo..., what I propose is a networked effort to dig up the dogs in the texts. I am hoping we can share our collective ideas and 'hunches' regarding the 'points of interest' within the book - or, as G wrote in Meetings - the 'Dolmens' along the way.

The one request I have regarding participation in this endevour is that you be familiar with the text(s) involved - All and Everything in particular. I will be putting a DISCLAIMER at the head of each section of 'syllabus' thread for this project if it gets off it's 'butt', because I don't want anyone's growth along this particular path stunted by not putting in the effort to gain PERSONAL understanding of the meaning(s) of these texts (and believe me, the first couple of times through the Book is HARD). G spoke of, in ISOTM, "students on the same level can work together and be frank, and further their growth collectively" (paraphrase)....this is what I mean by this request (the short of it at any rate).

That being said...anyone interested??

Kris

 

[Laura]

Kris, our FOTCM members have been busy over the past year or so having social and book discussion meetings. Other than that, we do not advocate or support any kinds of meetings set up between forum members for all the reasons stated in various places around the forum. Because there is so much potential for stalking, misuse and abuse, this forum can't be used to solicit meetings.

 

[RflctnOfU]

Kris, our FOTCM members have been busy over the past year or so having social and book discussion meetings. Other than that, we do not advocate or support any kinds of meetings set up between forum members for all the reasons stated in various places around the forum. Because there is so much potential for stalking, misuse and abuse, this forum can't be used to solicit meetings.

Laura, I wasn't referring to meeting up in person for a discussion - there IS big potential danger in that type of scenario. I meant creating a series of discussion threads in the forum...I suppose I wasn't clear about that in the initial post.

Kris

 

[Laura]

Kris, our FOTCM members have been busy over the past year or so having social and book discussion meetings. Other than that, we do not advocate or support any kinds of meetings set up between forum members for all the reasons stated in various places around the forum. Because there is so much potential for stalking, misuse and abuse, this forum can't be used to solicit meetings.

Laura, I wasn't referring to meeting up in person for a discussion - there IS big potential danger in that type of scenario. I meant creating a series of discussion threads in the forum...I suppose I wasn't clear about that in the initial post.

Kris

Well then, carry on! But since I've never managed to read the whole thing myself, I probably won't participate. So many other avenues to follow!

 

[RflctnOfU]

Regarding my syllabus idea, it seems it has already been done, and done better than what I had in mind. Can be found here: _http://www.gurdjieff.org/syllabus.htm

I would suggest however that for short chapters, they not be combined with others in a thread, so that in any given thread we keep it to one chapter alone.

Kris

 

[aragorn]

Kris, our FOTCM members have been busy over the past year or so having social and book discussion meetings. Other than that, we do not advocate or support any kinds of meetings set up between forum members for all the reasons stated in various places around the forum. Because there is so much potential for stalking, misuse and abuse, this forum can't be used to solicit meetings.

Laura, I wasn't referring to meeting up in person for a discussion - there IS big potential danger in that type of scenario. I meant creating a series of discussion threads in the forum...I suppose I wasn't clear about that in the initial post.

Kris

Before you start new threads, I think it would be a good idea to check the already existing discussions about Gurdjieff's books on the forum. Doing a quick search, I found e.g.

Beelzebub's Tales:Second Pass.

In Search of the Miraculous

Gurdjieff's books?

Maybe you could post your views on the already existing threads, and see if that is "enough"? But if you're thinking of something more structured, and with less "noise", maybe starting new threads for each particular book is a good idea.

 

[RflctnOfU]

Kris, our FOTCM members have been busy over the past year or so having social and book discussion meetings. Other than that, we do not advocate or support any kinds of meetings set up between forum members for all the reasons stated in various places around the forum. Because there is so much potential for stalking, misuse and abuse, this forum can't be used to solicit meetings.

Laura, I wasn't referring to meeting up in person for a discussion - there IS big potential danger in that type of scenario. I meant creating a series of discussion threads in the forum...I suppose I wasn't clear about that in the initial post.

Kris

Before you start new threads, I think it would be a good idea to check the already existing discussions about Gurdjieff's books on the forum. Doing a quick search, I found e.g.

Beelzebub's Tales:Second Pass.

In Search of the Miraculous

Gurdjieff's books?

Maybe you could post your views on the already existing threads, and see if that is "enough"? But if you're thinking of something more structured, and with less "noise", maybe starting new threads for each particular book is a good idea.

I found those threads as well, and my idea is to really have a systematic 'chewing of the gristle'. Something like 10-15 pages analyzed per thread. Those other threads are too general for what I have in mind.

Kris

 

[dugdeep]

It sounds like you've got an "itch", so to speak, Kris. I say scratch it! Maybe start a new thread in the books section outlining the first section and your own impressions and see if anyone bites :) I think the book is worth a thorough deconstruction, but it will remain to be seen if people are up for it.

 

[RflctnOfU]

It sounds like you've got an "itch", so to speak, Kris. I say scratch it! Maybe start a new thread in the books section outlining the first section and your own impressions and see if anyone bites :) I think the book is worth a thorough deconstruction, but it will remain to be seen if people are up for it.

Note the bolded... ;) I am struggling with myself about this. Part of me doesn't want to waste the energy if it will be a 'pouring from the empty into the void' - meaning noone is really interested, or familiar enough with the material to have a meaningful discussion (More on this later). In this regard I am reminded of 'one hand washes the other' -- I don't want to be a 'hand' trying to wash itself :)

As for the book being worth the effort of deconstruction, IMO it is on par with, in terms of importance, discovering the Truth about how the world of humans actually works - what the sott team, among others, has been doing all these years now.

I think that I have only begun the process, re BT's, of 'reading between the lines', and my intuition/Faith screams that this 'second layer' I have begun discovering is only the start. I liken the inner process of learning from BT's like chemistry. G gave the individual 'atoms', if you will, of the 'hydrogen through uranium' spectrum, scattered throughout. Also scattered throughout are subtle hints on transforming these 'atoms' into 'molecules'/more complex material. I also think that within this 'molecular landscape' are also hints and clues about further transforming these into 'DNA' or some such 'thing'.

All that being said, I do like the suggestion of just plunging in with the first section. I am now going to have a cig and contemplate how to begin.

Thanks dugdeep!

Kris

 

[SeekinTruth]

I've only read Beelzebub's Tales once in it's entirety and have read sections after that. So I probably can't participate or add much to the discussion you want to start as it would take a lot of time and energy to reread and I have too many other things on my reading list to catch up with.

But if you go ahead, I think it might be helpful for others like me to read the study you want to undertake by just reviewing it and thinking about the deconstruction being done. FWIW.