Program Identified - Over Giving - Self Masochisms - Insecurity?

Menna

The Living Force
I have identified that I over give in friendship relationships and sometimes among family relationships. To be more specific my friendship relationships average 15+ years. I am not talking about meeting someone in May and over giving in June albeit, in romantic relationships in the past (haven't been in a romantic relationship in 8 years) I over gave early on. I am bringing this identified program to the forum to get down to the root cause as to why a human being would over give and run this program.

My assumptions is that I don't like to take from people or ask much from people so to keep a relationship I over give in fear of being let down or disappointed? Also, in over giving I am taking from myself which leads me to believe there is a side of masochistic behavior. I also believe that I have an underlying insecurity based on a relationship early on in childhood along with the "be a good boy" program as most things in life are a mix of more than 1 thing.

Masochisms - "Enjoying an activity that seems to be painful or TEDIOUS." Over giving is tedious, one has to know the details of dynamics to know when and how to give, have to take time out of ones own life to over give and plan and prepare and spend time/money above what is usual and customary.

Being Let Down - No one likes to be let down and if one has been let down before or majority of the time then one will do things to rig the game so that being let down doesn't happen, however in the dynamic of over giving to not be let down I believe one is just avoiding the inevitable.

Insecurity - When I was 4 years old I was playing in the front yard of my home. A kid from across the street came over to play. For 7 or so years we were very close (I still remember his families home phone number) fast forward to Junior High School I had a birthday party and I went to the movies with a bunch of friends. I remember my friend saw other people from school that I didn't know and sat with them for the rest of the evening since then the friendship drifted apart. I believe I started over giving or looking past faults or any combination of the two in order to keep friendships in hopes of success.

Be Good Program - Well my family/parents are very idealistic so that kind of says it all which is good but the balance of idealism and realism is off kilter so this is a big part of how I was raised.

The above are my root causes however, I am wondering if anyone else has this program? I am reading the Polyvagal Theory and in it the theme is the human organism wants to feel safe. Maybe over giving was my way of trying to rig the game so that I would feel safe in relationships. But it creates a uneven reciprocity where the other side doesn't develop an equal giving dynamic which is also another human need (reciprocity) so in the end by over giving I am setting myself up for eventual disappointment that I was trying to avoid feeling since it first happened in a relationship at 11 years old. Over Giving = Shooting oneself in the foot IMO
 
if you can discern superficial from true curiosity i think that's a good start.

some people just want "to look" but not walk the path themselves, some seek recognition by association, some are addicted to "likes" etc it's a whole mess these days specially with social media/propaganda and pathologies
 
I have identified that I over give in friendship relationships and sometimes among family relationships. To be more specific my friendship relationships average 15+ years. I am not talking about meeting someone in May and over giving in June albeit, in romantic relationships in the past (haven't been in a romantic relationship in 8 years) I over gave early on. I am bringing this identified program to the forum to get down to the root cause as to why a human being would over give and run this program.

My assumptions is that I don't like to take from people or ask much from people so to keep a relationship I over give in fear of being let down or disappointed? Also, in over giving I am taking from myself which leads me to believe there is a side of masochistic behavior. I also believe that I have an underlying insecurity based on a relationship early on in childhood along with the "be a good boy" program as most things in life are a mix of more than 1 thing.

Masochisms - "Enjoying an activity that seems to be painful or TEDIOUS." Over giving is tedious, one has to know the details of dynamics to know when and how to give, have to take time out of ones own life to over give and plan and prepare and spend time/money above what is usual and customary.

Being Let Down - No one likes to be let down and if one has been let down before or majority of the time then one will do things to rig the game so that being let down doesn't happen, however in the dynamic of over giving to not be let down I believe one is just avoiding the inevitable.

Insecurity - When I was 4 years old I was playing in the front yard of my home. A kid from across the street came over to play. For 7 or so years we were very close (I still remember his families home phone number) fast forward to Junior High School I had a birthday party and I went to the movies with a bunch of friends. I remember my friend saw other people from school that I didn't know and sat with them for the rest of the evening since then the friendship drifted apart. I believe I started over giving or looking past faults or any combination of the two in order to keep friendships in hopes of success.

Be Good Program - Well my family/parents are very idealistic so that kind of says it all which is good but the balance of idealism and realism is off kilter so this is a big part of how I was raised.

The above are my root causes however, I am wondering if anyone else has this program? I am reading the Polyvagal Theory and in it the theme is the human organism wants to feel safe. Maybe over giving was my way of trying to rig the game so that I would feel safe in relationships. But it creates a uneven reciprocity where the other side doesn't develop an equal giving dynamic which is also another human need (reciprocity) so in the end by over giving I am setting myself up for eventual disappointment that I was trying to avoid feeling since it first happened in a relationship at 11 years old. Over Giving = Shooting oneself in the foot IMO
There is no such thing as over giving when you are sto. You are just being passive aggressive/ people pleaser. Let me love you now you love me back but upset if they don't. You have to realize this conditional love don't count toward frequency increase. Pure love should be given freely without any string attached. When you give service to other freely it is up to them to receive/reject your love then reciprocate back. If the recipient not open to the idea of love then they can't receive it let alone give back. Example in early stage of sto journey your love/compassion usually very conditional like trade. As you progress you are able to give love despite the reaction of the recipient. Hostile reaction won't deter your desire to be of service as the act of giving is a joy in itself. The key to pure love is surrender/ letting go of your will to enable you to give service to other the way they want it. As long you have fear (not getting the outcome you want) it is very difficult to get rid of your ego. Loving is difficult initially but the more you have faith(choose) in it the easier it gets.
 
Thanks for reply I understand what you are saying.

There are situations where I am asked to give again and again and then if it’s another’s turn to assist or help or just be a “friend” and there is none it is frustrating as we did choose to be here in 3D and if people that ask for help repeatedly don’t give any reciprocity or become negative to me after the help there is a feeling of let down or disappointment in me. As I do not ask for help or assistance after I help but there is an expectation. Expectation of a two way street relationship of some kind not expecting 50/50 but something. As there needs to be for survival here and now. You have to be taught, coached, payed currency, sharing…given knowledge this needs to be given from others. If there is no reciprocity no one survives or it becomes extremely more difficult.

There is a flavor of passive aggressiveness here in this dynamic so thank you for pointing this out. After seeing things go a certain way the tides turning in life I do like letting them play out to see what others really want to do. As I don’t want disingenuous behavior But this doesn’t excuse the passive aggressiveness.

I do strive for STO and I know I am more STO than I was in the past so I see improvements hence why I posted this to improve further so thank you for reply and pointing out another program.

I guess I have to be STO at my level as if someone asks for things repeatedly I have to know in me when it’s too much at my level here and now regardless of STO or external consideration my STS 3D being has its limits as I strive but I go too fast/far and run into a wall of STS emotions. This is a way I can improve to say no at times as I am not advanced enough to be in a relationship where I am giving 90%+ of the time.

Albeit, another fundamental reason why I become upset/disappointed/let down is that I know I can’t Trust the relationship in the way I thought I could or what was indicated as to be “successful” to be a good obvytile (4th way vocab word I may not have spelled correct) in STS 3D earth one has to make decisions and actions based on information and things said and done to set up a stable life to work and do “The Work”. If a friend, family member or romantic relationship ask and ask and then at times shut you out or change trends and things they say - then from a strictly I chose to be here in STS 3D survival point of view I get frustrated as it’s too much taking as the dynamic becomes deleterious and can or has turned detrimental.

For protection of myself I put space between the relationship when this happens but I feel I am doing something wrong because as years and years pass and a bond is created and care is giving I feel I am betraying those I care for … this eats at me even though it may be best for me. This is a hump a duality in my I can’t get over and festers in my intellectual center … Caring for people but needing to put space for your betterment is hard for me.

if I could be STO being during the day and then at night fly away and I didn’t need 3D STS resources (roof, food, Tempe tire control etc…) and all that practical 3D stuff then being STO is easier however I believe one needs a practical balance of STS and STO while here as if we don’t consume food and water we will not be here anymore. Being strictly STO may not be the best way to live on Earth to experience “The 4th way”/3D life but this is a subjective mentation at this point.

I feel there has to be or should be or needs to be a % of reciprocity within 3D relationships or the relationship is detrimental to one’s practical STS 3D survival as there are things to do for oneself and planning requires factual data not fake pretenses/negativity

This balance of being STO while living in STS world I will work on. As I have to be practical with myself and not have unrealistic striving that ends up getting me in trouble with my centers. I am not “there” yet not where I want to be not wise enough
 
Last edited:
It sounds like you've got a good handle on the dynamics of your programming. High five! People Pleaser was/is my Chief Feature, too (to use a phrase from G). I think it's pretty common for a lot of people. Luckily there are a ton of resources out there for getting to the bottom of it.

Assertiveness training would be a good idea, either with downloading a workbook, working with a psychologist, or reading some books on the topic, etc. I have been going through Not Nice: Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silence, & Feeling Guilty... And Start Speaking Up, Saying No, Asking Boldly, and Unapologetically Being Yourself. It's written by by Dr. Aziz Gazipura (there are also a number of different books on the topic). It's been eye-opening in a really great way. There are a number of exercises in the book, key concepts, and examples of how being 'nice' is a great way to ruin your health, wreck relationships, and destroy your ability to attain your destiny.

I think 4D STS really needs a big stock of 'nice' people because they are easily manipulated - they are quick to give up their Free Will at the drop of a hat, often for no good reason. Meanwhile, they can tell themselves a cover story of what a good person they are. Look at all the 'nice' people who conformed to the lockdown tyranny and took the bioweapon into their bodies. Or the Nazi regime. So the deprogramming entails understanding that being a nice people pleaser actually makes us more likely to being controlled by petty tyrants. Of course, there is a balance to be struck as it's necessary to give others due external considering, and also practicing strategic enclosure... but people pleasing is both of those on overdrive, essentially stifling our own true voice, and suffocating our Being.

Covey in 7 Habits of Highly Effective People has a compelling way of talking about how assertiveness is actually an STO characteristic - especially when one takes a win/win mindset. That's key. This is the central discussion the Habit 4 section of the book. Being nice or a people pleaser is a lose/win mindset - we set ourselves up to lose so that others will win. Then they like us because we let them walk all over us, and the end result is a feeding the STS energetic hierarchy. But those relationships are false, timid, and can actually be very STS, especially if we are essentially living a lie and not actually being real with how we feel or how we see the world, and instead just accepting someone else's reality even when it is totally bogus. It's a fear-based mentality. It's also a subtle manipulation of others based on an anticipated result.

Assertiveness doesn't mean becoming aggressive, or more STS. That's another load of BS that keeps a lot of people locked in a frequency prison. In Covey's terminology, that would be the win/lose mentality - where we go around with no empathy, trying to attain our own selfish ends. As G said, first we must become conscious egotists. That's what assertiveness training is all about, I think - getting in touch with ourselves, becoming more and more able to know how we feel and honour what we truly want in this life, creating an authentic aim, and then moving towards that aim in an assertive manner, treating ourselves as we are in truth - golden sparks of the divine who are actually worthy of having a good life free of parasites. It also includes being able to defend ourselves from the energetic feeding cycles that are so prevalent in 3D, drawing good boundaries, and stop trying to manage the emotions of others. Essentially, between passivity and aggression, there's a 3rd path - assertiveness. So there is a balance to be struck. And as with anything, the knowledge takes real-life application.

Anyhow, what I've been learning is that assertive win/win is an opportunity for truthful, careful, authentic communication - even if it is uncomfortable and there are hurt feelings. IMO assertive win/win may be the only real way to reach true interdependence, which is one of the highest principles of STO networking.
 
Hi Menna,

Well, I think if we explore the reasons why people are overtly "generous" in their dealings with other people, you will find as many answers as there are people.

I think it may be a more worthy endeavor to explore the dynamics for you particularly, which I believe you have begun, but some generalities have mixed in your exploration.

The way I like to look at some of these tendencies of ours, is as habits we want to keep rather than happenings we wish o get rid off. There's something we get out of the aspects of ourselves we can't control. So a good question is, what do you get out of being overtly generous in your dealings with others?

And that, whatever it is you get from it, is the thing to question and ponder, and eventually sacrifice if you wish to do so.

Overt generosity can indeed come from insecurity, from nurture about how to ear one's place in a relationship, how love was earned, so very many places. But it can also be self serving, it can be the way to keep your self image intact as a good person, as a good friend, as a wealthy individual, etc.. what I think truly matters in this case, is what it means to you.

I personally think there's nothing wrong with generosity, and giving oneself sincerely and as abundantly as one is able and as abundantly as prudent, so long as it is sincere with oneself and the others. The trouble comes when one lies to oneself and others about said generosity.

Some relationships will always be unbalanced OSIT, like parents and their children, some relationships will swing back and forth in terms of generosity. I do think that balance is perhaps the loftiest of goals, but before aiming at that, I think sincerity about the particular reasons for one's generosity (or what one thinks is altruistic generosity) is essential, otherwise one runs the risk of trying to find something without understanding it. Like, trying to level a shelf with one's eyes closed.
 
From a polyvagal perspective, people pleasing is a fawn response - it basically comes from a sympathetic vagal space of fight/flight but is blended with just enough ventral vagal social connection that is used like a kind of handbrake on fight/flight rather than being fully grounded, open, connected and feeling safe if I've understood it correctly.
 
Assertiveness training would be a good idea, either with downloading a workbook, working with a psychologist, or reading some books on the topic, etc. I have been going through Not Nice: Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silence, & Feeling Guilty... And Start Speaking Up, Saying No, Asking Boldly, and Unapologetically Being Yourself. It's written by by Dr. Aziz Gazipura (there are also a number of different books on the topic). It's been eye-opening in a really great way. There are a number of exercises in the book, key concepts, and examples of how being 'nice' is a great way to ruin your health, wreck relationships, and destroy your ability to attain your destiny.
Thank you for the resources. Currently reading Polyvagal Theory which explained a Traumatic event that I suppressed for 17 years as I wasn't able to use Fight/Flight had to use the other response disassociation. Anyway I will pick up "Not Nice" and read it side by side seems to be my fate at this time to come across these two books within the same month. The reason I shy away from being assertive is I don't want to hurt another's feelings but that is me assuming and trying to control at the detriment of myself. Also I like to build with people so I give to see if the other can give as well or at least at a level that allows each to live and progress in 3D.

I think 4D STS really needs a big stock of 'nice' people because they are easily manipulated - they are quick to give up their Free Will at the drop of a hat, often for no good reason. Meanwhile, they can tell themselves a cover story of what a good person they are. Look at all the 'nice' people who conformed to the lockdown tyranny and took the bioweapon into their bodies. Or the Nazi regime. So the deprogramming entails understanding that being a nice people pleaser actually makes us more likely to being controlled by petty tyrants. Of course, there is a balance to be struck as it's necessary to give others due external considering, and also practicing strategic enclosure... but people pleasing is both of those on overdrive, essentially stifling our own true voice, and suffocating our Being.
This seems like a "back door' way to control someone. I have to read up on strategic enclosure as I am not as familiar with that term as I am with external consideration. I understand what you say here.
Covey in 7 Habits of Highly Effective People has a compelling way of talking about how assertiveness is actually an STO characteristic - especially when one takes a win/win mindset. That's key. This is the central discussion the Habit 4 section of the book. Being nice or a people pleaser is a lose/win mindset - we set ourselves up to lose so that others will win. Then they like us because we let them walk all over us, and the end result is a feeding the STS energetic hierarchy. But those relationships are false, timid, and can actually be very STS, especially if we are essentially living a lie and not actually being real with how we feel or how we see the world, and instead just accepting someone else's reality even when it is totally bogus. It's a fear-based mentality. It's also a subtle manipulation of others based on an anticipated result.
I see that in being a people pleaser we are accepting another reality which is very dangerous. There is no mutual sharing of your own reality as there is no boundary for yourself. It enables the person who you are giving to - to be selfish and take STS without having to give. People pleasing or over giving prolongs things that should of ended and also prolongs the inevitable keeping people in place that should have faded away or have less of a frequency in ones life.
Assertiveness doesn't mean becoming aggressive, or more STS. That's another load of BS that keeps a lot of people locked in a frequency prison. In Covey's terminology, that would be the win/lose mentality - where we go around with no empathy, trying to attain our own selfish ends. As G said, first we must become conscious egotists. That's what assertiveness training is all about, I think - getting in touch with ourselves, becoming more and more able to know how we feel and honour what we truly want in this life, creating an authentic aim, and then moving towards that aim in an assertive manner, treating ourselves as we are in truth - golden sparks of the divine who are actually worthy of having a good life free of parasites. It also includes being able to defend ourselves from the energetic feeding cycles that are so prevalent in 3D, drawing good boundaries, and stop trying to manage the emotions of others. Essentially, between passivity and aggression, there's a 3rd path - assertiveness. So there is a balance to be struck. And as with anything, the knowledge takes real-life application.
I have to hone in on my Assertiveness in a tactful way. I am sure the book "Not Nice" will educate me some. Maybe use some humor while being assertive. I definitely wouldn't be able to go around aggressive its too stressful its not me, not what I want to become. Albeit, I can become aggressive when needed. The tactful assertiveness will organically put up boundaries and damper the feeding cycles.

There is a coincidence in my life here and now that a 3rd way a 3rd less likely way is a path I have learned and will have to learn about when its comes to Trauma in my life and a way to act in my life. Few knows about the Volyvagal "Deadman""disassociate" way of surviving an event and few know about the 3rd path of assertiveness most are familiar with aggression/passivity.. Looks like this information is meant for me at this time. I will learn and hopefully not fail too much while I incorporate this knowledge in life
Anyhow, what I've been learning is that assertive win/win is an opportunity for truthful, careful, authentic communication - even if it is uncomfortable and there are hurt feelings. IMO assertive win/win may be the only real way to reach true interdependence, which is one of the highest principles of STO networking.
Trying to reduce or exclude hurt feelings in others is how I have acted majority of my life and is how I use external consideration but in this case the devil is in the details...Part of the reason why I over give is that If I don't suggest, or put in majority of effort for things to work out then nothing really happens so part of it is to just do things with others also there is a feeling of paying homage or a responsibility that I feel to friends of 15+ years and long term relationships but I have learned everything runs its course even a 25 year friendship and other like relationships. I do not meet someone in September and over give in October (unless I really like the women lol) These relationships I over give in are either family or 2 decade relationships as if they go by the wayside I feel regret or bad and feel I owe it to the relationship a responsibility to keep it going.

I was under the impression that STO is strictly self sufficient but in terms of STO networking BOTH parties have to create healthy dynamics and over giving doesn't give that a chance.

Also I like to build with people and grow in relationships so by giving or over giving I try and see who can match or "keep up" this way the relationship grows and people grow and the relationship is successful in 3D if everyone is looking out for each other and giving as to give properly one has to know, observe, plan, consider, think...But I shouldn't TEST relationships in this way and focus on whati s right for me here and now while considering the other.
 
Last edited:
Trying to reduce or exclude hurt feelings in others is how I have acted majority of my life and is how I use external consideration but in this case the devil is in the details
Indeed, that can actually be internal consideration, that is determining the needs of others.

I feel regret or bad and feel I owe it to the relationship a responsibility to keep it going.
On this one, there's a yes and a no IMO. Friendships and relationships DO need constant investment, otherwise they will fade away, but it's like watering a plant, if you over do it, you will end up killing it, if you don't do it enough the same fate awaits. So, it's a balance and every relationship requires different levels and depths of investment.

I think it's ok to invest yourself into a relationship, so long as both parties want the same, if there's a discrepancy, that's where awful dynamics can develop.

Another thought that occurred to me was that, being overtly generous by default is a swift way to ensure no one really gets to know you, because all they have is your automatic response, and if that response is unconscious, then what you're feeding with the overt generosity isn't the friendship per se.. it's the false image you have created in someone else's eyes.
 
The way I like to look at some of these tendencies of ours, is as habits we want to keep rather than happenings we wish o get rid off. There's something we get out of the aspects of ourselves we can't control. So a good question is, what do you get out of being overtly generous in your dealings with others?

I think, planning, observing, timing, memory/remembering, caring are all giving qualities I don’t want to give up. Closeness or bonding with others is what I get out of giving and the other knows I care. BUT where I get in trouble is in the amount/frequency of giving. That’s where the OvER giving comes in as if I am met with nothing much in return or pushing away which I don’t expect I then develop negative emotions but I do stand on my point of needing to live in 3D so reciprocity on some level is needed BUT the amount/frequency is the devil in my details as this is toxic and too much at times.

I personally think there's nothing wrong with generosity, and giving oneself sincerely and as abundantly as one is able and as abundantly as prudent, so long as it is sincere with oneself and the others. The trouble comes when one lies to oneself and others about said generosity.

I think the amount of giving I am not being sincere with myself as at times sometimes the over giving invokes an obligation feeling in myself when this feeling happens that can be a gauge as to when to take it easy with the giving. For example if I bring over wine one time to a persons house I don’t expect them to bring over dinner to mine that is ridiculous but in my examples would be if I bring over a present everytime and the same persons asks for something and I always say yes and then a time comes for support and it’s not there or they become rude. The amount and consistency of my giving creates expectations in me.

On a separate topic I have grown over the years If I am over giving and over caring and the other is in the same low frequency and continues to just take … for my own development and self respect I step back but the level of care is a separate topic and I can’t expect others to grow with me. But I try to show the growth and emote it in my being in hopes other sees and recognizes for themselves. However the buffering is so strong in others…
 
On this one, there's a yes and a no IMO. Friendships and relationships DO need constant investment, otherwise they will fade away, but it's like watering a plant, if you over do it, you will end up killing it, if you don't do it enough the same fate awaits. So, it's a balance and every relationship requires different levels and depths of investment.
Yes, and in the trend of my relationships if the other does not "water the plant" and it is dying I tend to pick up the slack and water it even when I did the watering the last 5x...This is part of over giving/not liking change/not liking an investment fading away but as I have said it is avoiding the inevitable or else one has to keep up the energy of watering 80% of the time. This is what I have done. Not is EVERY relationship but in majority.
I think it's ok to invest yourself into a relationship, so long as both parties want the same, if there's a discrepancy, that's where awful dynamics can develop.
Well what to do when the other party wants your help and wants your company when its convenient to them? you give and give and then realize the discrepancy that they are not willing to do for you? This is what I realize its best not to keep giving to keep the one way street alive its best to just let it die on the vine.
Another thought that occurred to me was that, being overtly generous by default is a swift way to ensure no one really gets to know you, because all they have is your automatic response, and if that response is unconscious, then what you're feeding with the overt generosity isn't the friendship per se.. it's the false image you have created in someone else's eyes.
In doing so I hope that they other can do somewhat the same. If everyone shares and plans and things and accounts for eachother together (doesn't have to be 50/50) then everything is easier and more fun. So I provide the generosity it is taken but its almost like the other moves on or pushes away after years and years...so its time for me to realize this dynamic not let the negative emotion take over and really work on my assertiveness and go after what I want.
 
As you progress you are able to give love despite the reaction of the recipient. Hostile reaction won't deter your desire to be of service as the act of giving is a joy in itself.
One person being hostile does not stop me from giving to other separate people if 3 out of 5 people are hostile I can still give to the other two who aren't no problem. I can also give space and time to the other three but if the trend continues later on when do you call a spade a spade? I can also "give love" from a distance to those people...I think there is nuance here for us humans who are STS and live in an STS world where one has to be a % STS to survive... REPEATED Hostile or detrimental reactions SHOULD deter someone who has responsibilities, work, family, other relationships and need to take care of their own human organism. After all humans can be STO candidates but not pure STO themselves.

Striving to be a STO candidate and living in STS 3D in a STS organism there are alot of fine lines to walk hence doing the work and networking to get back on that fine path. Giving in the face of REPEATED (I am not talking about a person having a bad day and being in a "mood" there are trends) "abuse" or "hostility" is not a proper way to act within 3D if you also want an optimal life for yourself, your organism, your life and your other relationships IMO. .... Thanks to all I will have to read the books and work on a few things. But what I know about myself is when there are hostile reactions in the face of over giving or a clear lake of reciprocity it is time for a boundary...
 
Last edited:
Albeit, another fundamental reason why I become upset/disappointed/let down is that I know I can’t Trust the relationship in the way I thought I could or what was indicated as to be “successful” to be a good obvytile (4th way vocab word I may not have spelled correct) in STS 3D earth one has to make decisions and actions based on information and things said and done to set up a stable life to work and do “The Work”. If a friend, family member or romantic relationship ask and ask and then at times shut you out or change trends and things they say - then from a strictly I chose to be here in STS 3D survival point of view I get frustrated as it’s too much taking as the dynamic becomes deleterious and can or has turned detrimental.
Obyvatel is the correct spelling.
 
Back
Top Bottom