Programming and graceful lessons

[Laurs]

Dear All,
I guess I am having a knee jerk reaction, which I suspect is related to programming in my mind and of course I want to identify same, delete it and learn from it what there is to learn. So I was hoping someone could take a look and share their thoughts with me. Here is the case:

I have a brother, well into his forties. We were never close as kids (it's just the two of us) and when I turned 18 (he is two years younger than me) I had a very vivid dream. We were in a helicopter and crashing into a lake in a park, which was a well known area to both of us. We were both dying from our injuries due to the crash and all of sudden, but in a natural way, we found ourselves in a massive station type of environment with loads of platforms and automatic stairs. we were the only ones there. There came a point when we knew we had to part ways: I had to go up an automatic stairs and he said he had to go down. There were tears brimming on his eyelashes as he said; "I am already starting to forget", then he went down, I went up and that was it. I woke up experiencing a feeling that this had happened for real. Our relationship kind of cooled even more then as I left the house to go to university.

From then on, he manifested himself as someone who always manages to get himself into debt, surrounding himself with destructive types, not being able to really take responsibility for his life, while our parents or some of his rich friends always bought off his debts and solved his problems, teaching him that he could do as he pleases and someone will be there to pick up the tab.

He managed to marry a true psychopath (I have come to the conclusion that she fits the profile from what I have learned from Laura's research and from Hare's book), fathered four children with her while neither of them wanted to take care of those children (!) so our mother did out of love for her grandbabies. When his then wife's behaviour got to be really destructive (they were all prohibited from any contact with me and my family by her by the way), he managed to divorce her and our mother still takes care of those four children, while never being acknowledged for it, but that is her issue with him. So when he drops me an email every 2 years or so, he always wants something from me and in the past I did give as I felt sorry or obligated as he was my brother and more of such considerations. I never wanted to but I nevertheless did, knowing I was probably doing more harm then good.

This morning I received an email to lend him Euro 40K: he has met a woman, wants to buy a house with her but is still saddled with a debt of 40K relating to the tuition fees of his ex-wife (!) and legal costs in the divorce proceedings of years ago. Outside of the fact that I find it a peculiar and fishy story as he is a banker and the lady he loves now is too. He owns a house and so does she from what I know. And now he asks me to pay off tuition and legal debts relating to his ex-wife, who is also a very successful banker by the way. Hmmmm, all bankers huh...

I know I have to make a choice. I want to make a life-enhancing choice due to which lessons are learned gracefully. Now the words going through my mind (and I am observing them, without judgment) are like this: 'o, pay up and be done with it', 'he is your brother, you have to pay up because you would also like it to have family at the ready to help you out should you need it', 'if i should tell him no, there will never be any contact with him anymore', 'you are not doing him any favours when you pay up, he will never learn this lesson to take responsibility for his life and to live his life within his means', 'people will be disappointed in you when you do the previous', 'i do not care about others' judgments', and so on and so forth. Lots of thoughts as you can see (controversy indeed within the Predator's mind), distracting me also from doing research, thinking and reading about issues truly interesting and important to me.

The programmed action to take, I would guess, is to bail him out again, versus the liberating action of stopping and deleting this program.

What do you think?

 

[bjorb]

Hi Rudy

[quote author= Rudy]This morning I received an email to lend him Euro 40K[/quote]

Email is way to un-personal to just ask for 40K, it's something you ask face to face.


[quote author= Rudy]fathered four children with her while neither of them wanted to take care of those children (!) so our mother did out of love for her grandbabies. When his then wife's behaviour got to be really destructive (they were all prohibited from any contact with me and my family by her by the way), he managed to divorce her and our mother still takes care of those four children, while never being acknowledged for it, but that is her issue with him.[/quote]

People who are unable to act responsible in the most basic things of life will just as carelessly use your money, and what are the prospect of him paying it back? Did he laid that out in his mail? What is his track record on lending money?


[quote author= Rudy]I know I have to make a choice. I want to make a life-enhancing choice due to which lessons are learned gracefully. Now the words going through my mind (and I am observing them, without judgment) are like this: 'o, pay up and be done with it', 'he is your brother[/quote]

Helping family should be within reasonable means always. Of course sacrifice is part of that, but so long when you are not used. And to me, good chance you are being used.


[quote author= Rudy]versus the liberating action of stopping and deleting this program.[/quote]

Would be the correct approach I think. Much lessons to be learned, and if you do, you learn that you can sleep like a rose and don't care about all that ''pressure''

It are just programs after all. You are not unemphatic for not lending him 40.000, you are just looking after yourself. Refusing to be used by others.

 

[Ca.]

IMHO it's a Scam.

The only thing that you'll help him to do is live the life style via your your hard earned sweat equity.

It looks like desperation request with him knowing that perhaps that he will attempt to violate your freewill via your kindness. A typical sociopath trait.

Thought it's not for me to tell you what one should do, but just ask yourself in review, why is this situation a repeated pattern of behavior (on his part).

Remember it's OK to say NO. And No means NO, firm and stead fast.

Then sit back and watch the attacks and feathers fly.

If people around me are abusing my kindness what should I do with them?
_https://www.quora.com/If-people-around-me-are-abusing-my-kindness-what-should-I-do-with-them

While it may be excusable for friends to take some small advantage occasionally - give and take is part of a good friendship - if you are surrounded by people who absorb all you have to give (and more) then you will end up drained.
These people must see that they are taking advantage of you but in order to continue doing so they are saying that they care more about themselves than they do you. These are not the kind of friends I would personally seek out.

5 Reasons Why People Take Advantage of Your Kindness
_http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/5-reasons-why-people-take-advantage-of-your-kindness

 

[nicklebleu]

The programmed action to take, I would guess, is to bail him out again, versus the liberating action of stopping and deleting this program.

What do you think?

It seems to me, you gave yourself the answer already - I like the sound of "liberating"!

To me he comes more across as a scam artist, and you are his next target. While we say "Give to those who REALLY ask", this is not asking, that is demanding, and as you yourself put it, you are not helping him by coughing up the dough.

But in the end, it's your choice to continue down the well trodden path, with same results, or creating a new one, at least for yourself.

 

[luc]

Hi Rudy,

I agree with others, given his history, this seems to be a no-go.

I know I have to make a choice. I want to make a life-enhancing choice due to which lessons are learned gracefully. Now the words going through my mind (and I am observing them, without judgment) are like this: 'o, pay up and be done with it', 'he is your brother, you have to pay up because you would also like it to have family at the ready to help you out should you need it', 'if i should tell him no, there will never be any contact with him anymore', 'you are not doing him any favours when you pay up, he will never learn this lesson to take responsibility for his life and to live his life within his means', 'people will be disappointed in you when you do the previous', 'i do not care about others' judgments', and so on and so forth. Lots of thoughts as you can see (controversy indeed within the Predator's mind), distracting me also from doing research, thinking and reading about issues truly interesting and important to me.

Kudos for observing your thoughts in this way. I think it's not so much a controversy within the Predator's mind, but a controversy between the predator's mind and your rational analysis of the situation/the facts. I think doing the right thing is never easy, but in my experience it can lead to wonderful developments that are totally unexpected.

So I'd say don't worry too much about the negative consequences, approach it in a smart/unemotional way, and stand your ground, if you decide to refuse. Best of luck and you can always network about it here

 

[ashu]

I feel your dilemma, I have been in this position in bailing my older brother out when he was in uni and I volunteered to pay £1000 for his accommodation bill (15 years ago). I played the White Knight and wish I had stood my ground and said: no - its your problem, sort it out yourself.

40K is an awful lot of money and I'm with luc - it would be a no go for me if I was in your shoes.

 

[Nienna]

The programmed action to take, I would guess, is to bail him out again, versus the liberating action of stopping and deleting this program.

What do you think?

I, too, think that you answered you own question by the bolded part. I, also, think that your dream was very telling.

To help you to see what may be going on with your situation, here is a part of a Cs session that deals with something similar:

Q: (T) Is L a robot type?
A: You are dealing with a no-win situation!!
Q: It is a no win situation...
A: As you know.
Q: (T) So, if I don't get out, I will just keep
going down. Is it the area or the person?
A: Both. One is wrapped within the other.
Q: (L) Why is it that it seems to be one of the
primary things about us that prevents us from
acting against such situations, is our fear of
hurting another person? That was the chief
thing that kept me in my marriage for so long.
And, only when I knew that it was hurting the
kids more to stay, did I have the power to get
out. Why are we so afraid of hurting
someone's feelings if they are hurting us?
A: Not correct concept. You do not need to
"act against them," you need to act in favor of
your destiny.
Q: But, when you do that, these persons make
you so completely miserable that there seems
to be no other choice but a parting of the
ways.
A: Yes, but that is not "acting against." Quite
the contrary. In fact, remember, it takes two
to tango, and if you are both tangoing when
the dance hall bursts into flames, you both get
burned!!!
Q: Why is it that when one tries to extricate
from such a "tango," why is there is such
violent resistance to letting you go when it is
obvious, clearly obvious, that they do not
have any feeling for you as a human being?
A: It is not "they." We are talking about
conduits of attack.
Q: What is it that makes them susceptible to
becoming conduits of attack?
A: All STS are candidates for this. There are
only about 6 billion of you though.
Q: Okay, all people can be conduits of
attack. (L) Would just coming down and
working with us on Saturdays, on a regular
basis, help him to get his concentration back?
A: Making the necessary changes would.
Q: Is it true that being in the presence of such
people, that one is under the influence of an
energy, an emanation from them physically,
that befuddles the mind and makes it almost
impossible to think ones' way out of the
situation?
A: It is the draining of energy that befuddles
the mind.
Q: Where does this energy drain to?
A: 4th density STS.
Q: They drain our energy from us and 4th
density STS harvests it from them?
A: "They" do nothing!!!! 4th density STS
does it all through them!

Another thing is, just because he is your biological brother doesn't mean that you owe him anything. And, you are not really doing him any favors by giving in to his demands.

 

[Laurs]

Thanks so much dear people for your insightful replies. Your replies strengthened my resolve and I can tell you that i have sent an email (!) to him stating in clear, concise yet friendly language that i am not up to paying this one and that i wish him well to try and live within his means for once and that i will not be used now not ever any more in the future, thank you very much. I feel mixed but i know it's just the chemicals from the neuropeptides bonding with the neuroreceptors due to this programming. Rereading ch 65 of the Wave relating to this also really helped me with this one. (Thank you Laura).
Btw, it is wonderful for me to communicate and network like this. Profound gratitude to all.

 

[Gawan]

I think your decision was wise and I agree with what others wrote.

Regarding in how your brother is seeing you and when he is only able to write an mail and asking for such huge amount of money and what you wrote about him, you have absolutely nothing to lose in saying no to him as you did already.

Btw, it is wonderful for me to communicate and network like this. Profound gratitude to all.

Yes, networking is helpful in so many ways, especially when it comes to our own perceptions, where we most often fail to see clearly and where the network help to look beyond our own perceptions.

 

[flashgordonv]

I think your decision was wise and I agree with what others wrote.

Regarding in how your brother is seeing you and when he is only able to write an mail and asking for such huge amount of money and what you wrote about him, you have absolutely nothing to lose in saying no to him as you did already.

Btw, it is wonderful for me to communicate and network like this. Profound gratitude to all.

Yes, networking is helpful in so many ways, especially when it comes to our own perceptions, where we most often fail to see clearly and where the network help to look beyond our own perceptions.

Yes, I agree. Good one Rudy. Doing this is very liberating. I have had to do it with two of my daughters. Another thing I've noticed is that while the request is always mentioned as a loan, you never get it paid back, ever. Even the request is a lie, they do not have the courage to outright ask for the money, so they couch it is a request for a loan. Lies, all lies.

 

[Phill4]

Just say you can't at the moment.

I am in a predicament now, I had the same situation some time ago, to lend or to not lend, That was the question, and i lent......


Im still struggling and arguing with the person in question , he said for two mo ths plus 100 interest per month. For only two months

Now, whenever someone tells you they are willing to pay interest it is because the are not gonna pay you any time soon.! They more interest they are commiting to pay the less likely they will pay you. So, yeah... I fell for it.
It has been over a year! And im still arguing about this.


My advice. Just say no, specially with all the signs you describe.


The person in question has had 4 failed marriages and kids all over the place and all kinds of social and psychological issues.


Again, my advice is say no, make something up, say no and let life run its course...

 

[nicklebleu]

Now, whenever someone tells you they are willing to pay interest it is because the are not gonna pay you any time soon.! They more interest they are commiting to pay the less likely they will pay you. So, yeah... I fell for it.
It has been over a year! And im still arguing about this.

I think that this is an important point!

Which reminds me of an article I read a while ago about rules when lending money to friends (unfortunately I wasn't able to find it anymore). There were commonplace rules like "Only lend if you mean to!" and "Only lend what you are able to afford loosing outright!", but from the last point the author deduced, that in case someone in your family is in a tight spot and is otherwise reliable, then it's better to just give them the money with no strings attached. If they are honest and dependable, they will pay the money back on their own, without contact and deadlines. And this way it won't eat you up and potentially destroy the bond you have with said person, if he/ she is unwilling or unable to pay the money back in time.

I thought that this is a good way to see this issue.

 

[Voyageur]

Sounds like you handled this well, Rudy, and this is not easy. The dream you mentioned, although different, indicated well the separation of you both, or so it sounds.

Was talking with a friend the other week concerning when people used to make agreements with each other, you know, a hand shake; and this still happens. Today though, it is all much more a legalized aspect. The interesting thing is that agreements between two people still often work well, whereas when agreements are employed within a legal framework, these often end with points of contention, disasters and protracted legal proceedings; and this can happen equally among friends and family - more tricky and hurtful. On the other hand, to protect yourself, understanding and utilizing legal means is important in today's societies - it's a bit of a balance and you really have to have some intuitive feelings for whom you are making agreements with. And this brings up family and the emotional aspect, which you well know and describe.

As such, not sure if you have seen this documentary, The Psychopath Next Door (2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsGOymlFNww ? I mention it because at the 24:00 minute mark there is a man who has a degree in psychology and is faced with his son scamming him. These bonds of a family played a big part in what happened to him (it was his son for darn sake), even though he knew on some level, yet did not understand. A brother or sister can be the same, and it is a painful lesson.

 

[Laurs]

Thanks Voyageur for the doc tip. Just watched, very interesting. Would have expected the occupation of Banker also on the top of the list ;), but is probably covered by the number 2 on the list: Lawyer. Reminds also of American Psycho book by Brett Easton Ellis, phew, stay away from that lot indeed! Interesting new research now into epigenetics as the Oxford professor mentioned in the documentary.
Also want to share that when I did sent my email refusing to loan the money, I felt a tight knot in my stomach, this was still there yesterday. As mentioned earlier, Laura wrote in ch 65 of the Wave Series how these feelings (like you have done something wrong, anxiety, fear, what have you) are just chemicals released by the neuropeptides in the brain and bonding with neuroreceptors located all over the body and, also in the gut and stomach area. I kept telling myself that it was just the chemicals causing those bad feelings every time they popped up. Then I would do some EE breathing and today it is already much less. Of course I haven't heard back from him so far, but I decide that whatever his reply (or lack of), it will not be harmful to me in any way. So, I gracefully return to my research! Thanks again

 

[Charade]

Hi Rudy,

I wish my brother, sister and I didn't have a similar situation with our father. In August, my sister and I went to Atlanta ( we both live in different states ) to help my brother with the problem that our father is nearly blind, Macular degeneration and glaucoma, had a spot on his lung and manages type 2 diabetes. He is married to a very mentally unstable woman. The weekly visits were impacting my brother's time, job, marriage and wallet. We thought we would figure out a living arrangement that would be more suitable to his failing health problems. What we uncovered during that visit was far worse than we had imagined.

My father and wife #3 had married because each thought the other had money 20 some years ago. I knew this from the beginning. My brother realized that my father was playing a shell game with his finances and was in debt $60,000. He only found this out because our father couldn't read the computer screen any more. What we thought we knew about our father was he was poor at managing money. What we found out is that at the very least he is a con man (our last name is Connors) but I suspect he fits the NPD profile and is most likely a sociopath or psychopath. He has been able to live his life in this manner because he can be very charming. His wife fits that profile even more so and has been mentally deranged in all the time I have known her. It's like listening to tapes of the past that play continually in her head to hear her talk. One is definitely energy drained being in contact with these two. It is exhausting.

After going through his finances the only solution was to claim bankruptcy. We learned that this was not possible because he had moved to Georgia for this very reason and wasn't eligible to do this for another 4 years! This was his third time of using bankruptcy to clear debt! He had also drained his brother and mother of savings and stocks when they were alive. He has used his wife's name to get credit cards she doesn't know about. He has loans with massive interest rates. He wanted my sister and her husband to bail him out this time!!!!

The funny thing to us is that he had worked in banking and used the system to bail himself out. Also funny, he encouraged all of his children to have careers in the financial sector as well. Both my sister and brother have/had careers in this field. A summer bankteller job proved to be a complete failure for me. It's only now that we are having the education of the lengths that someone with no fiscal responsibility will go to. They have no conscience about it. These kinds of people don't change and there is a whole legal system in place to facilitate their behavior!!!!

My sister's first reaction was to pay it off and cut all ties to him forever. Instead, we are protecting each other.
We aren't going to bail him out. We are letting the creditors call and he can negotiate the balance of the debt if they are willing. Right now we have a holding pattern set up to manage the situation with minimal resources from each of us. I made arrangements for homecare to be available to them a day or two a week but they were resistant to any change that might better their life. They can't afford to move to assisted living now where they should be. When their health deteriorates further it's uncertain what will have to happen. As two nurses who have evaluated their situation and health have said" It's a hot mess". I know it is useless and not spiritually sound to force them into changes we might think are for their good. I don't understand what lessons this man is supposed to go through. I don't think he has ability to change for the better, just knows how to use people to keep up his comfort and appearances. Very ironic that he is legally blind now. Cosmic justice that is a burden to us as well.

My advice, why should you pay for the million bad decisions your brother made? Why feel any guilt or responsibility to that? Is that what family is for? I think not. Not knowing that soulless people exist.

The silver lining in all of this is networking with my brother and sister, putting our heads and resources together, making logical and sound agreements together. We live far apart but feel close in heart and mind.

Good Luck.