Programs

[thebest]

Hi,

I have read Laura's post on Programs, predator mind, etc. But I don't yet know how to go about deprogramming yourself (in a safe way). Is there a topic or post where this is explained? What do you have to watch for, observe, etc.

How do programs relate to chief feature?

How does karma relate to all of this?

Thank you.

 

[Sodajaxon]

Hello, thebest, welcome to our little quantum family.

a good place to start is here, this is a spot that i have had quite a few bumps with.
The First Initiation by Madame de Salzmann

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28065.msg141216.html#msg141216


for me, it is shocking to observe myself doing this, knowing better, and still not stopping the lie.

in other words, watching and saying and seeing and knowing what i am saying is a complete lie.

what i think i am and who i think i am too others, makes me make me lie.

which makes me a lie. in other words, i can see the machine in me working as i watch it.
and if i interrupt myself, what then? I want more courage, so i can see.

welcome to the board my friend. pls give this your best.

this journey will make your vessel a shining star!

 

[whitecoast]

Hi thebest, you may be interested in some of these threads:

Buffers, Programs, and the Predator Mind

The Usefulness of the Negative Half of the Emotional Center

Splitting as a Symptom of Internal Considering

Important threads for The Work


You can also check out the Recommended Books list, which also contains a summation of some of the material and ways it is relevant to the other pieces. The sections on Narcissism, cognitive and social science, and neuroscience are particularly beneficial to help us understand how our machine works, and the ways we can improve its functioning.

How do programs relate to chief feature?

How does karma relate to all of this?

I'd say chief feature is a certain program or behavior/habit that acts as a lynchpin for many other aspects of the personality. Personally I see a person as having multiples of these, and when these threads get pulled at our normal sleeping behaviors and patterns receive a large shock, as described by Dabrowsky in his theories on Positive Disintegration, which is more or less the processes by which our character and virtue grows.

As for karma, I'd say that all these programs and health quirks all relate to karma, although much of it can simply be accidental events from this life.

Also, looking after our health is critical for improving the functioning of our minds as well, so don't neglect the diet and health section of the reading list and forum as well! But it is a lot of info to take in all at once. Baby steps, and happy exploring!

 

[T.C.]

Hi, the best.

Think of a movie analogy.

In a movie, karma would be represented by the plot or story arc. The chief feature could be what a character represents: the villain, the victim, the hero, the fool, the boss, the youngster, the wise man, the extra. The programmes of each of the characters being their unique personalities, idiosyncrasies, their motivations and what makes them tick.

 

[Alada]

I have read Laura's post on Programs, predator mind, etc. But I don't yet know how to go about deprogramming yourself (in a safe way). Is there a topic or post where this is explained? What do you have to watch for, observe, etc.

How do programs relate to chief feature?

How does karma relate to all of this?

Well, those are three VERY big questions. Perhaps first we have to discover how best to approach such questions, consider what energy we may need to invest in trying to find out some of these answers for ourselves, especially if our programs make us lazy. There is a search function on the forum.

This approach can also be for our own benefit, understanding that for knowledge to have any effect we have to work at it (hence work being named work), that if we only sought to collect knowledge as if it were Halloween candy then it would make no difference, hold no value for us. The more efforts we make, the more we begin to gradually define what programs we have and how chief feature colours them. The latter requires much time and repeated efforts – think layers of an onion.

Perhaps where karma is concerned, we ought to consider that we come upon the life’s work of others, we ought to be willing to invest a commensurate amount of energy in the exchange in order for there to be balance.

The safe way in general I think is to keep networking and sharing with others as we go.

 

[Keit]

I have read Laura's post on Programs, predator mind, etc. But I don't yet know how to go about deprogramming yourself (in a safe way). Is there a topic or post where this is explained? What do you have to watch for, observe, etc.

How do programs relate to chief feature?

How does karma relate to all of this?

Well, you asked for a forum thread, and you already have been given links to several good and relevant ones. But beside forum threads there are also books that provide much more detailed and broader explanations. Don't know what books about Gurdjieff and the Work have you read, but "In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching" by Ouspensky probably should be the first. It contains all the basic information and principles that may clarify many of your questions. There are many other books, of course, and you can see the recommended list here.

But then, beside the esoteric aspect, there is obviously also the psychological or cognitive aspect that goes together. So on the same list you can find the Narcissism "Big Five"books that we usually recommend, because there is no point in trying to fix something without having a deep knowledge of things that need fixing, and how the whole inner mechanism operates.

Speaking of inner mechanism, it is also a good idea to read and keep up with the psychology and cognitive science section of the forum.

As you can see, your questions are indeed complicated, and answering them requires a multi-faceted approach. :)

 

[Palinurus]

Hi,

I have read Laura's post on Programs, predator mind, etc. But I don't yet know how to go about deprogramming yourself (in a safe way). Is there a topic or post where this is explained? What do you have to watch for, observe, etc.

My advice would be to start off with reading this 24-page topic: What programs have YOU discovered?

In it, a plethora of forum members describe their own programs, how they discovered them and what they are trying, or have tried, to do about them.

Very instructive IMO to get an overview of the subject and very recognizable too.

Hope this helps a bit. :)

 

[Oxajil]

Thebest, there is also a Dutch translation of Ouspensky's book, it's called "Op zoek naar het wonderbaarlijke". :)

 

[Gawan]

I have read Laura's post on Programs, predator mind, etc. But I don't yet know how to go about deprogramming yourself (in a safe way). Is there a topic or post where this is explained? What do you have to watch for, observe, etc.

How do programs relate to chief feature?

How does karma relate to all of this?

Well, you asked for a forum thread, and you already have been given links to several good and relevant ones. But beside forum threads there are also books that provide much more detailed and broader explanations. Don't know what books about Gurdjieff and the Work have you read, but "In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching" by Ouspensky probably should be the first. It contains all the basic information and principles that may clarify many of your questions. There are many other books, of course, and you can see the recommended list here.

But then, beside the esoteric aspect, there is obviously also the psychological or cognitive aspect that goes together. So on the same list you can find the Narcissism "Big Five"books that we usually recommend, because there is no point in trying to fix something without having a deep knowledge of things that need fixing, and how the whole inner mechanism operates.

Speaking of inner mechanism, it is also a good idea to read and keep up with the psychology and cognitive science section of the forum.

[...]

Especially the books about cognitive psychology (i.e. Timothy Wilsons books and Daniel Kahneman) give many practical answers and real scientific concepts what for example Gurdjieff was talking about.

The Adaptive Unconscious
Thinking, Fast And Slow

I can imagine that at the beginning so much material can be overwhelming, with that take it step by step. And I think if you haven't done so already, the suggested book In search of the miraculous would be the best start.