Psychopath Victim Support Groups

[soon2be]

I read much on line about the narc/psychopathic personality and it has shocked me that anyone could even remotely know how I feel. I lived a reality for 10 years and only at the last found out that my entire reality was a lie. I have lived in the wake of that for 3 1/2 years now and have never even spoken to anyone (counselors etc.) that can even remotely comprehend what I lived through. They just shake their heads and tell me that I should write a book or go on Oprah. I get on-line and read articles like "between devalued and discarded". I need healing, I need validation, I need to learn to trust again. I am 48, and that is too young to be so terrified of love. Where are these support groups that I hear about?

 

[Laura]

Unfortunately, the ones I have checked out on the web have already been infiltrated or taken over by psychopaths so that they don't really do anything positive. I've even caught one of the major players stealing my stuff, not giving credit or links back to our site. The only reason I can think of for that is that maybe we just go a bit "too far" for their tastes. We actually try to provide truly thoughtful insight and information.

The one thing I have learned, after having been stalked by a psychopathic cyber-terrorist for the past five years, is that learning everything you can about the problem is the first step to healing. Right now I am finishing up the editing of Lobaczewski's book, Ponerology. This book has done more to help put the pieces together than anything I have ever read. It will be available soon.

So if you've read all the material on our site about psychopathy, available from the sitemap link at the top of the SOTT page, and the books from which many of the excerpts were extracted, you will be well on your way to healilng.

We will also be putting all of our combined learning and experience together in a single volume to come out later this year.

 

[Cricket]

I read this reply by Laura when it was posted and back then I wanted to make a comment about the so called "experts", but I didn't.
This night I was talking with my parents about Doctor's stories. My sister has got one of those rocks which accumulates on the organic system and the Dr. she went to see adviced surgery as the only way to remove this rock. MY sister was infuriated since she (and me, and all) have heard there are ways to dissolve this rocks and went to see another Dr. and yes, she is on treatment now to dissolve that problem, and no surgery!
Tonight chat was about this and several other stories about how Doctors are, most of them (and this was the first sad fact to the conversation, that most of them are like this), how most of them see their patients as sources for income, and only that, so they order surgery at the lesser provocation, charging of course as much money as they can. On other ocassions, they keep the patient ill, to keep that income. On other times, they provoke a illness where there was none, to have a steady client.
It is my opinion and experience many "experts" behave like that and, actually, many call their selfs "experts" to access people's trust. This is due to the faith we have on the "experts" -they solve our problems.
Or so we think.
Or so it should be.
Your car does not responds? Ther washing machine is acting funny? Is your computer "traumatized" is some way? Do you suffer of strange itches or pains here and/or there? Well, call a expert and PUF! Problem solved.
Most particulary about the subject discussed on theis thread:

Where are these support groups that I hear about?

Where are the experts for such a traumatic experiences like the ones soon2be reports has been suffering? Well, they are everywhere, but as Laura mentions:

Unfortunately, the ones I have checked out on the web have already been infiltrated or taken over by psychopaths so that they don't really do anything positive.

.... or, the very same "experts" ARE their self Psycopaths.
MOST PARTICULARY on the field of psycological abuse or soul related problems, because it is the easiest field to fake "expertice" and, on falling on the claws of one of this "experts", one is up for a ride.
The main idea i want to convey is the "Do it your self" message. That is what MANY "experts" do as to have enough information as to deceive the traumatized person seeking help.
We only need knowledge. Thus, Laura's advice is trully the way to go, and not only as a first step! It is the way to go as a second, third, fourth step to then venture to the localization, if by then needed, of a expert -once we have accumulated enough information and knowledge and understanding as to, fortunatelly, get to the point where we would NOT need a "expert".
I have done this on many many times and this is always my first approach: To study the subject. And I have succeded on many many times! I even ended up once giving advice to an "expert"!
And I have been succesful PARTICULARY on soul or psicological issues: No one knows better about a particular psicology than that particular psicology.
Same with washing machines: Fixed.
Same with computer: Fixed.
Same with my inner world: Have achieved information and knowledge as to get to comprehend it.
And what we will find out is what a descent expert would advice for our problem! The line between experts and non-experts... is knowledge.
The faked experts I am talking about, use both the knowledge available, and the lack of knowledge present on the patient/subject.
I calculate that 80% of our problems requiring the asistance of a "expert", CAN be solved by our selfs.
Conclussion: We give way too much faith to the experts (or Support Groups), when we CAN be the experts of our selfs! We trust too much on the "experts" JUST because they call their selfs "experts" and ONLY because of that!
Disclaimer: Not ALL experts are a fake and not ALL problems can be solved by the one suffering them. We most evaluate the problem, the expert.... and our selfs BEFORE seeking the help of an expert. We will be pleasantly rewarded time after time!
Or so I think.

 

[soon2be]

I have indeed been taking Laura's advice and have taken some comfort in some of what I am discovering. I have studied in the past quite a bit about this personality type but what has been lacking is what of the individuals left shattered in the wake of a relationship with them. That is where my help is coming. To realize the difference in the grieving process and where I am at in it and that it is normal! To discover the basic personality type that these individuals target and how far removed from that type I am now now, though I wasn't then. These are the things that give me hope of one day being able to trust again. These are the things that tell me I am on the road to healing.
Thank you

 

[anart]

These are the things that give me hope of one day being able to trust again. These are the things that tell me I am on the road to healing.

It has been my experience that learning how these people operate goes a long way toward feeling like I can trust myself and my own impressions enough to trust others again. Basically, I was so blown away by the results of my relationship with a psychopath that I didn't trust myself at all. I even went through a period of literally being too embarrassed about what happened to me to be honest about it with other people. Once I started to learn that what happened to me was not only not uncommon, but that there were very real, identifiable mechanisms behind it, a huge weight lifted and I started to breath again. I think you will find that arming yourself with knowledge about how these people work/see themselves/see you, that you will feel the same strength grow inside. Be patient with yourself and try to view your learning as protection and fuel for progress.

 

[propaganda]

I too am seeking help after being left devasted after a 2 year stint with a person of no moral value, who told me she had cancer and who cost me financially and mentally. I can't even begin to mention what happened because it is large and incomprehensible to me. The lies were endless and huge, and she was a professional. I was communicating with people in emails she had created, not just one, but upwards of 8 or 9, yet it was all so detailed, I trusted it all without question, I am amazed at myself for being so stupid. Looking back most was so outlandish, so absurd, how could anyone create something of that scope? So perfect.... When I finally figured it out, I asked her why, she said "I can't explain it because you have it made up in your mind how it is already". If I had it made up in my mind, why would I ask? I am a devastated, broken man. Where do i go? How do I comprehend and understand this?

Is there a type they target? Am I that type? Does she know what she is? I told he what she is, she got very angry, I saw fire in her eyes, hate, pure raw hate, unlike anyting I have ever seen, seething from her being. She then tried to ruin me, mentally anyway, wearing me down, making threats, telling everyone she could lies about me (the FBI was had seized my computers according to her, and I am a Saddam Hussein sympathizer). Twisting everything in it's entirety to make herself look like a victim. I called her mother, her brother. They knew, they never told me. They "thought" she was doing better, and didn't want to hinder her. Why wouldn't they have warned me?

Should I do things to prevent her? I have means. Should I protect the world from her? Is it my place, my obligation?

 

[The Gardener]

My humble opinion.
EVERYTHING is a lession and nothing more.
Learn it. Then you graduate.
The school remains, intact, for others to learn.

My sympathy.

 

[Laura]

I too am seeking help after being left devasted after a 2 year stint with a person of no moral value, who told me she had cancer and who cost me financially and mentally. I can't even begin to mention what happened because it is large and incomprehensible to me. The lies were endless and huge, and she was a professional. I was communicating with people in emails she had created, not just one, but upwards of 8 or 9, yet it was all so detailed, I trusted it all without question, I am amazed at myself for being so stupid. Looking back most was so outlandish, so absurd, how could anyone create something of that scope? So perfect.... When I finally figured it out, I asked her why, she said "I can't explain it because you have it made up in your mind how it is already". If I had it made up in my mind, why would I ask? I am a devastated, broken man. Where do i go? How do I comprehend and understand this?

The first step is to learn everything you can about the disorder, or "type," rather. You can start here:
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm and read all the articles linked on the left bar. Some are onsite, some are on other sites.

We also have a free download of Cleckley's seminal work: The Mask of Sanity that you will also see on the left navigation bar on the above page.

Then, you will want to read several other books. But start with what is available there, and then when you are ready for more, ask.

There is also a lot of information available here on the forum in the various threads on psychopathy. It will help a lot to talk about it with other people who have been victimized. One thing we have discovered is that just learning about it goes a LONG way toward healing.

Is there a type they target? Am I that type? Does she know what she is?

Yes, there is a type they target - usually those with giving natures and deficient psychological knowledge. You must be the type because she "got you." Such individuals can "know" that they are different, but it is a strange kind of knowing. They "know" without insight. Once you begin to read the above mentioned articles and dicussions, you'll start to see exactly what I mean.

I told he what she is, she got very angry, I saw fire in her eyes, hate, pure raw hate, unlike anyting I have ever seen, seething from her being. She then tried to ruin me, mentally anyway, wearing me down, making threats, telling everyone she could lies about me (the FBI was had seized my computers according to her, and I am a Saddam Hussein sympathizer). Twisting everything in it's entirety to make herself look like a victim. I called her mother, her brother. They knew, they never told me. They "thought" she was doing better, and didn't want to hinder her. Why wouldn't they have warned me?

Again, most of these things are explained in some detail in the linked articles.

Should I do things to prevent her? I have means. Should I protect the world from her? Is it my place, my obligation?

You will be better able to decide that once you know what you are dealing with. You will have to assess the risks and also the possible advantages of doing anything. I would suggest not doing anything until you have more knowledge of the situation.

 

[MaskedAvatar]

propaganda

I was interested that you chose the term "professional" as part of your description. Introducing the solicitation of money to a situation casts a particular light on the motivation of the individual.

There are many such people about the world who have talent in storytelling and emotional manipulation. There are interesting true stories of synchronous and serial "Russian brides" who are able to solicit funds contemporaneously from lonely men to complete their English classes (how long they must run!) or to secure visas and passports. There is nothing new in the con game, the internet makes finding a pool of susceptible people a simpler process and the con artists are obviously not limited to women, but given the social situation of women who may be in circumstances with less opportunity and with less drive it is no surprise that this old professional game is the one that is chosen.

My impression is the only person who can determine that you are "broken" is you - and for you to have seen out of control raw hatred as you described it - is in itself a valuable lesson to have gone through and survived. It seems you are not at all broken. But my feeling is it's not your place to undertake a global mission of protection from this person or this type, it is better to reflect on your experience, know that you will find unfortunates who are capable of this (in this case perhaps unconscious) pattern of self-destruction, and move on to wiser things.

 

[propaganda]

Laura, what a wealth of information you have on your site.

When I searched on this "type" of personality, I found textbook ideas, diagnoses, and nothing more then a basic concept of behaviours. I could not find much that truly explored the basis of such a personality.

Most of these diagnoses were consistent with criminal behaviour. This is a confusing point for me. The person was not necessarily commiting criminal activities, and was non violent. She would use other ways to exact revenge and hurt people, and what I observed after the fallout was how she would exact revenge by whatever means were at her disposal.

Morally, she was a criminal yes, but she doesn't fit this aspect of psycopathic behaviour, in fact, she worked in the sheriffs office as a dispatcher, and later as a deputy, which gave her an advantage with a basic knowledge of the law. She took nursing in college as well, which gave her the advantage of some medical knowledge. However she failed to complete her nursing. She was working in a medical clinic for some time while we were together.

When the wheels fully flew off was around the time she accused one of the local surgeons of raping her. Her story was vague, non specific, and got more complicated as it came along. It was as if she was making it up on the fly. She talked of this surgeon off and on, how he was asking her for lunch, how she knew he had a reputation, and how he gave her the creeps.

In her rape story she claims she was going on dinner break, he pulled up and asked her for coffee, she went along. Why would she get in a vehicle, alone, with someone who gives her the creeps?

She is a severe drug seeker and prescription addict, mostly narcotics by needle. She often fakes headaches to get narcotics. Many doctors and local clinics will not treat her any longer, and her medical bills exceed $350 000, mostly from drugseeking.

The last few years she hasn't been able to hold a job very long. When she travels where they don't know her, she takes full advantage of it. She admitted to me she is a drug addict, which amazed me because she could not admit antying else.

She often seeks people online, through various dating services. Even while we were together she had run several profiles off and on, seeking. She often talks about other people, things about them, or behaviours about them, but she is really talking about herself. "So and so is a drug seeker". I never saw any indication of illicit drug use.

In the summer of 2005 of she became very jaundiced, and told me it was from cancer therapy drugs. When I found there was no cancer I assumed Hepatitis C, and asked her. She got angry and denied it. She then went on google and searched fro drugs causing jaundice, she came up with an anti depressant (don't ask me how I know this, but I do). She then came back online and claimed it was that. When the cancer started she said it was her liver, of all things. I often offered to go to chemo with her, she acted concerned for my wellbeing telling me it would be too hard on me. She made imaginary friends that took her. I often got emails from these people. They were complex people, and in some way there was always drama and grief in their lives.

There is talk of a relationship between her and the surgeon, in which he supplied drugs to her in exchange for sex.

It's been over 16 months since she filed a complaint, and no one has been arrested, even though there was a rape kit done and DNA evidence.

I found forged medical documents on her computer, in which she changed small details of the original medical report. Why I am not certain, although she knows I have them, and I told her I would take them to the police. At that time she told me I had forged them, which is absurd with no access to the original.

She was afraid of me after I found out, because I can entirely destroy her credibilty, and perhaps cause her legal problems. Her best friend of 16 years does not believe her rape story, and it destroyed their friendship. When I talked to her I told her I felt stupid for not figuring it out sooner, she said "how do you think I feel, 16 years later?". Her mother and brother don't believe it either.

She is now in the process of sueing the clinic where she worked, the county sheriff, and the doctor. She has a lawyer working for her pro bono, and for all I know he bought it 100%. I did talk to the investigating deputy by telephone. He said "I have known her for 10 years, I know all to well what shes capable of, if you know something you need to tell us".

What complicates things further is I am Canadian, she is American. We live 7 hours apart. She has made several false statements and complaints to US customs and Immigration. I have worked in the USA off and on over the past 10 years, that is how we met.

She has 2 children, and lives in a small town. She has 2 ex husbands there. The children are from the first, and somehow her and her ex get along, he often wants to sleep with her, and perhaps she does off and on. She uses her children in sick ways, to gain sympathy for herself. She lies to people about her children. She herself is a constant sympathy seeker.

During our relationship, she had another guy on the hook and he also gave her money, paid her bills, and helped her. I knew about him, they were friends. She kept him and I apart, and would often tell discredting stories about him. After the fallout him and I spent 10 hours or so on the phone, putting pieces and stories together. She told him that her and I were just friends and she would often tell him discrediting stories about me. He had children and she would bring her children there, he lived about 4 hours away, and they would do activities. Her children were not permitted to talk about me in front of him.

I don't know why I am typing this, perhaps to vent, it seems allover the place. What I have said here is a miniscule portion of the entire story. Lies on top of lies on top of lies.

Laura thank you for your work on this, it's much appreciated. I will read more when I get time.

Masked Avatar, the Russian Bride syndrome is somewhat analogous of my situation, but my situation is exponential. Truly it shows the capability of such people. I had never dealt with anything like it, nor was I educated in it, therefore I was blind. By my own admission I was drinking heavily during the relationship, and it got progressively worse as the relationship got worse. I am sober now. I didn't find out about this until I became aware of myself, after about 6 months on the wagon.

When you say "is in itself a valuable lesson to have gone through and survived" do you mean literally, or mentally? Perhaps this person is capable of taking a life. I have thought of that often on sleepless nights, that I didn't get a knife in my back while I slept.

I have often seen her upset, cry, show fear, laugh. Not just observed but felt it. Is this real of such a person? Is this possible?

Edit: At soon2be, I apologize, I just realized I hijacked your thread. Forgive me, I didn't mean to take away from anything you had to say. I should have started a new post. I am sorry.

 

[Laura]

Propagand, sounds to me like your best bet would be to just fade from this picture as much as possible. If you are asked to give evidence or testimony, give it, but don't go soliciting people to give it to. It sounds to me like this woman is already on the downhill slide and that others with more ability to do something are on to her.

Better for you if you NOW learn everything about the subject you can. Later, if you feel that you have to put your energy somewhere, you might create a psychopathy website, tell the story (using fake names), and present it as an example with citations and notes, etc. The more people who begin to talk about this and share their experiences with others, the better. In this way, even awful experiences can be turned to good account and others will thank you for sharing.

Of course, you will also attract some flaming from other psychopaths, but that goes with the territory!

 

[propaganda]

I have actually already done that Laura. I have a page about her in one of my websites, and I didn't use fake names. It is not slanderous, it is the truth, so why should I use fake names? I was hoping that google would pick her name up on a search, which it will in time, so anyone with the forsight to check into her on the internet would find it. My intention is not to exact "revenge", because then I become what destroyed me, and that is my greatest fear. My intention it to perhaps protect someone. I happened to catch up to one of her victims very early in their relationship, and told him my story. He ended all contact with her. Somehow I feel a need to protect people from her, perhaps this is foolish, maybe it is not my place. As many have said, this has been a great schooling for me, and I am in some twisted way grateful for it.

 

[anart]

Propaganda,

I just want to tell you that you are not alone. When reading your description of your experiences, I felt as if you were describing, in some small part, my own life experience with a psychopath. There is nothing to prepare a person for dealing with someone like this - it is so far outside of a normal person's understanding that nothing can soften the blow of realization that everything that ever came out of their mouths was either a complete lie or true only for as long as it took them to say it.

I can say with some confidence that nothing you could have done or said over the course of the relationship would have changed anything - it is not nor could it have ever been 'your fault'. Take Laura's suggestion and spend a lot of time studying the material she has provided - it will make all the difference. By learning exactly what was really going on, I found the weight of guilt/pain/shock/damage that I was carrying lift away to be replaced with a calm understanding.

Take care of yourself - avoid all contact with her or with anyone involved with her while you build your knowledge base, and thus your own ability to guard yourself.

a

 

[propaganda]

Thanks for the advice Anart. I keep hearing the same message here. This makes sense. I will heed this advice. Thanks all.

I will come here often, to learn, and to hear other peoples stories. If anyone would like to share personal experience with me, as a healing tool, I would welcome that. It feels good to know I am not alone.

 

[MaskedAvatar]

Masked Avatar, the Russian Bride syndrome is somewhat analogous of my situation, but my situation is exponential. Truly it shows the capability of such people. I had never dealt with anything like it, nor was I educated in it, therefore I was blind. By my own admission I was drinking heavily during the relationship, and it got progressively worse as the relationship got worse. I am sober now. I didn't find out about this until I became aware of myself, after about 6 months on the wagon.

When you say "is in itself a valuable lesson to have gone through and survived" do you mean literally, or mentally? Perhaps this person is capable of taking a life. I have thought of that often on sleepless nights, that I didn't get a knife in my back while I slept.

I have often seen her upset, cry, show fear, laugh. Not just observed but felt it. Is this real of such a person? Is this possible?

As I have been schooled in different personality theories and therapies than the kinds that give rise to the definitions of psychopathy, "OP's" and personality disorders talked about intensely on these pages, my perspective may not agree with most others. But I have been open minded enough in the past few years to see freshly how a sizeable proportion of the population of the developed world that receives mass media can share the same delusions at the one time, so I try to dismiss little.

You can see that the experiences you describe are not all that uncommon. The key commonalities are unequal relationships, the presence of a significant personality disorder or set of disorders and the avoidance of treatment.

Now that you ask, I'm not sure whether I meant your survival precisely in a literal or emotional way, probably a sense of both... but I do notice you did not refer to the presence of any physical abuse and therefore may not have been in a position of direct threat of physical harm. On that tendency, my belief is that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior - so that if there were any such pattern present - then without serious and detailed intervention it would be a thing that would recur time and again. I can imagine fists and claws flying at you but I don't think that you mentioned it.

I am not sure that an INABILITY to outwardly express emotion is ever typical of the types of personality disorders you encountered, it's more often associated with the onset of schizophrenia. But again, this framework is just in my schooling, and no-one who has ever done formal study in the behavioral sciences has a complete schooling.