Psychopath Victim Support Groups

[propaganda]

The key commonalities are unequal relationships, the presence of a significant personality disorder or set of disorders and the avoidance of treatment.

Avoidance of treatment is key, especially with this individual. When she did go for treatment, she lied to the doctors and therapists about the true nature of her problems. She chose to express herself as a victim of assault, agorophobic and PTSD, and I think they bought it, although a wise person schooled not only formally but through life experience should have been able to spot it (for the record she went to a drug and alcohol treatment center for her stress due to the alleged assault not once but 4 times). Not once did she mention any of what she was doing herself, she only created what would portray her as a victim. This enabled her to deprieve the goverment for disability, and gave validity to her lawsuit against the clinic where she worked for wrongful dismissal. She missed 50% of her work days there, even prior to the alleged assault, and they grew tired of her absentism. It all worked in her favor, as twisted as it is. How smoothly it was manipulated.

I can imagine fists and claws flying at you but I don't think that you mentioned it.

There was never a past of physical violence or threats as far as I knew, she is a cowardly person that avoids direct conflict and instead chooses to fight her battles passive aggressively, usually by trying to get people in trouble in some official manner. For example one of the doctors where she worked refused to treat her any further and put in her file that she was a drugseeker. This doctor had been convicted of a manslaughter 22 years prior, in another state. She found access to a pdf document about the case by google searching his name. He was interviewing for a different job in the state, she ensured that where he was seeking work got a copy of this document. Or even with myself she told a US customs and Immigration officer that I was a Saddam Hussein sympathizer while at the same time apologizing to me for what happened and saying she understood why I looked in her computer and she would have to.

So I don't have the authority of knowledge to truly diagnose her, she fits criteria's of a mix of personality disorders yet there is nothing clear cut and textbook about her. At the least personality disorder, but nothing cut and dried so to speak. From what I learned by my observation is that a person with a personality disorder may not be easy to pin a certain type on, but may exhibit behaviors from several types. For me this creates a conflict with certain ideologies and theories about this type of person, and leaves a more vague type of personality disorder, or sub order of a type. I think the professional community has explored some of these things and I think there is now broader thought on this then there initially was when people first started to study it.

What I observed:

Pathological Liar
Manipulator
Non violent
Non criminal (although lying to police is likely an offence, as is lying for monetary gains which might be construed as a form of theft, but non criminal in a classic sense, more morally criminal)
Passive aggressive revenge
Failure to seek treatment or admit true problems or behaviors (when confronted and caught behaved extremely cold, odd and non communicative eventually breaking down)
Prescription drug addict
Assertion of being a victim in all things
Creating of aliases and use of aliases to communicate lies and stories
No indication of sexual deviance or promiscuity (although alleged sex for drugs from surgeon?)
Explanation of lies with more lies

Her lies were not limited to creating ways in which she could use people for money. She at times lied about things she had no reason to lie about.

I often wonder how much of her lies and using were used simply to maintain her drug addiction, if I recall it was at times her motivation.

After the fallout she accused me of "buying her off' with money and gifts so I could avoid her emotionally. If it was a problem why did she take these things?

A funny thing. When I finally figured out what was going on and confronted her, she was cold, non communicative and odd, almost in a state of shock, she was also somewhat angry and hateful, but never expressed it outwardly. Then, she snapped, and broke down, and wept, and it seemed real. She said to me "Paul, I am extremely f**ked, more then you could ever comprehend, the best thing you could do is get as far away from me as you possibly can", and it was sincere, I felt it in my bones. It showed a glimpse of some sort of conscience perhaps. That's why I am very confused of exactly what her disorder is because at times I have noted humanity in her behavior, without motivation.

 

[Mr. Premise]

Don't be confused, that is a trap.

When the person is a psychopath, it's not really complicated. And this person fits the classic profile. There is only so much you can do to "understand," IMO. The whole scheme of classifying disorders is based on the health insurance system and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). But usually with screwed up people their symptoms overlap several categories of disorders.

But, the important thing for you is that if the person is a psychopath she has NO CONSCIENCE and NO EMPATHY and has no potential for developing one. So she is right that you need to get as far away from her as you can.

She also fits the profile of a less effective psychopath (otherwise she might be a CEO or politician) and as such may have, in addition, symptoms of a number other disorders due to poor adaptation to society. But you don't really need to worry about that, you need to worry about the effect such a close interaction had on you, IMO.

That's why I am very confused of exactly what her disorder is because at times I have noted humanity in her behavior, without motivation.

 

[Cathryn]

Hi P
Here is the link to 'Mask of Sanity' by Hervey Cleckley.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF
This book is a classic which is regularly quoted in psychological research into psycopathy. I strongly recommend that you read it. I think you will recognise her in some of the case studies. It is important to not feel sorry for these people, particularly when they 'seem' to be exhibiting empathy, they have usually learned it by mimicking others. It is a very common misconception that the psychopath is pictured as a serial killer or other such dramatic image. Whilst this is true for a few, the majority are out there plaguing the life out of the people they are in association with, and it seems you are well aquainted with what that feels like.

Take care to not give her much air time in your thoughts, and look out for your own destiny not hers.

 

[iloveyoghurt]

After reading this thread I am confused and shocked to a degree.

This psychopathy thing is something that I am working to learn and understand more about, and how it is that I came across the thread.

What I see in this thread is quite contrary: this woman is a drug addict. I don't know the full story, and some of the things that she did were utterly in the realms of "psychopathic behaviour" and certainly was lacking in compassion, it seemed obviously to me however, that this woman was a broken and traumatised person herself, with some kind of desperation (addiction maybe? Or the emotional tone coming from the writer), panic and dispair.

My learning continues :(

 

[kavonr]

After reading this thread I am confused and shocked to a degree.

This psychopathy thing is something that I am working to learn and understand more about, and how it is that I came across the thread.

What I see in this thread is quite contrary: this woman is a drug addict. I don't know the full story, and some of the things that she did were utterly in the realms of "psychopathic behaviour" and certainly was lacking in compassion, it seemed obviously to me however, that this woman was a broken and traumatised person herself, with some kind of desperation (addiction maybe? Or the emotional tone coming from the writer), panic and dispair.

My learning continues :(

You're falling into something written above... you're trying to classify too many disorders onto the same person. One thing you have to understand, there's a think called the PCL-R and PCL-SV (Psychopathic Checklist-Revised, and Psychopathic Check List - Screening Version) developed by people that spent much time clinically studying the disorder.

One large element of being a psychopath (or, rather, a common symptom on the checklist) is issues with substance abuse (ie: drugs and/or alcohol). Also, lying. The one in my life had pretty much lied about everything form abuse to where she was born. As stated in one book, they want you to feel sorry for them. It's a manipulation tactic and a way to make you disregard the fact that they are incapable of expressing emotion like the rest of us (the latter is my interpretation).

Here are the books that explained a lot of this to me:

The Psychopath Test - Jon Ronsen
Snakes in Suits - Paul Babiak, Robert D. Hare
The Sociopath Next Door - Martha Stout

 

[Vulcan59]

Hi kavonr,

Welcome to the forum. :) We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, and how they found their way here. Have a read through that section to get an idea of how others have done it. Thanks.

 

[Bresias]

I've been a member of a support community for domestic abuse survivors since 2007, and it provided two things; validation that I was not the "cause" of the abusive behavior I endured with my ex-husband (likely a sociopath), and encouragement to learn as much as I could about the abusive mentality.

I took the "learn everything you can" part very seriously, and went on to discover the internet has so much information on psychopathis, narcissists, "pathologicals" that I can't read it all. There is information out there targeted toward beginners through academic types.

In my particular community, we rarely use the term "psychopath" or any other psychiatric terms. I've been a member of other communities that did use psychiatric terms like "narcissist" or "sociopath". We were referring to the same behaviors, the same personal experiences, the same kinds of psychological aftermaths, but conceptualizing them differently based upon the disorder attributed to the "abuser".

For me, using the term "sociopath" to conceptualize the behavior of my ex-husband helped me gain objectivity more quickly. Or what I perceive to be objectivity. Sociopathy is a well defined concept, while "abuser" is not. My parrot is abusive, he bites the hell out of me when I touch his precious toy bells :D . "Abuser" is not clean cut, the associations are too general. What the immediate "victim" needs right away is a quick differentiation from the perpetrator, a simple black and white "yes/no".

I couldn't have articulated this at the time, when I'd gotten rid of my ex-H six weeks prior and was reading everything I could find on the subject. But KNOWING there was a syndrome, that what happened to me was not unique but instead was already well understood, that was the most powerful "validation" I received.

The validation of my community, where real people understood my dilemma, was powerful reinforcement. I see folks in the community rely solely on interpersonal validation, and they struggle. For a long, long time. It's like they come to rely upon the others in the community without developing an internal reference point. That's why self-educating is so important.

 

[Dprang]

My heart goes out to you all having to deal with toxic relationships.
I am on this site because of my interest in psychopathy. All my life I have guarded myself against people that seem fake and frightening to me.
After reading much in the last week beginning with the Mask of Sanity, and radiating my search outwards, I fit the description of an adult indigo.
The only time I relaxed in a developing relationship with a 'strange' man was online. I figured I was protected due to distance and different countries etc.
Without going into details, I realized how wrong I was. My error was using the postal system to mail pictures to one other. That meant he had my address..... and thereafter, the threats began. Since at this point I knew I was dealing with evil, I simply refused to go along, although he did not stop badgering for over 2 years. I know this sounds crazy, but the experience was illuminating to me and in some ways I needed to explore this.
When I heard about the book 'snakes in suits', I fully embraced the fact that the world has too many 'snakes' in powerful positions..... so I applaud all efforts of sites like this one to inform us how vunerable we are. Our only defense is to expose 'snakes before too much damage sets in.
When I read that having 'no fear' is the hallmark of a pyschopath...that was the crucial piece of the puzzle. This is the only real way one can truly know.
My pyschopath certainly had 'no fear', however, he is not a criminal in the eyes of society. I know his darkness because I challenged him to show it.
He is empty inside.

 

[KSM23]

Hi,

I have read and re-read a lot of literature about these people/my ex and I am now at a point where I need help. I cannot seem to move forward it's like I am stuck in the brainwash being I was then even though I am free from him.

I live in Sydney Australia and I am so scared of approaching a psychologist in fear that they will think I am the one who is mad. Maybe there are many that don't believe sociopaths/psychopaths exist?

I have seen a counselor and she said she understood but she hadn't heard them being called sociopaths or psychopaths much and she has been a women's domestic violence counselor for 25 years!

It's hard enough telling people what i went through and the fear that they will think I am stupid or an idiot for staying with him even when I knew how bad he was, then actually going out and attending appointments with the possibility of hitting brick walls.

I feel trapped.

 

[Lauranimal]

Hi KSM23,

First, I would suggest that you might want to visit the Institute's Safe Relationships magazine page:

http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/

And then, when choosing a therapist... develop a list of questions you want to ask them about. Such as, are you experienced in working with PTSD? Have you worked with clients who have been traumatized by Cluster B personalities? Have you had any particular training with regard to these? Are you familiar with the work of Sandra Brown?

Think about what's important to you and build your questions around that. I spent about a year with a psychiatrist who, while in general was helpful at some levels, really couldn't help me to access what I needed to at a core level.

Also, keeping a journal... writing very regularly is a help to me.

And in those moments when you are feeling so alone in this, and you're wondering if you'll ever come out on the other side of it... you will. One thing I have noticed about the people who have survived significant encounters with pathology - though maybe not in tact, initially - is that we are a tenacious bunch! Persistent in our desire to get to the bottom of things and unwilling to tolerate staying in a place of dis-empowerment.

Yes, you will waver back and forth in your recovery process... you will become exhausted by the grief and triggered by the recapitulation of what you and others have been through, but ultimately you will find your authentic self again. You will discover your real value and will never again seek for someone else outside of you to lay it upon you.

You are not alone.


Something I wrote not too long ago ... may or may not have meaning for you:

Whatever it is that the Universe is made of; Spirit. Consciousness. The totality of all that is, both good and bad. By whatever mechanism we came to be here, whether consciously chosen and allowed or forced and required; both of which suggest a higher authority or a Counsel which gives permission or enforces balance. Perhaps we ARE that authority. Of all that exists, we come from this therefore and so, any choice made and any permission given … we were and are that very authority. A part of this all encompassing consciousness from which all humans came. (wow… that smells a bit like word salad ...sometimes hard to find the right words to express a though)

We were born into a system of indoctrination where others have the power to shape our conceptual view of what it means to be alive; convince us of who we are, what our place is, how we should see ourselves, what our purpose is, what is or is not valid. Defining our worth. Defining for us and to us, what is Real.

Part of this indoctrination was not that we should be aware that we could protect ourselves from this programming; that we could reject or question any of it. That we have the power to re-define or simply define what constitutes our very being.

We already have ‘permission’ to be here, or we would not be here. We need not seek permission from others to value our existence. That value is already inherent. Those who have been convinced and shown in myriad ways from their infancy that they are less than a child of the Universe, know somewhere deep down that it just isn’t true! And so many spend their lives trying to prove it. There is no need. Your value already exists, or you would not be here.

Many have been taught that they should value themselves based on their usefulness to others, the feeling that if they do a good enough job of it, they can hope for the reward of being shown affection and love, thinking that this must be earned. That this is the only way they can justify their existence.

Once you recognize your authentic nature and that you arrived with value elementally built in; once you recognize that nobody outside of yourself can confer it upon you … that you arrived in tact and others convinced you of your lack, you are in a position to truly love and respect yourself, not just give lip service to the idea that you should.

When you re-integrate the fact that you were born of worth and it exists independent of how others have treated you, you will not seek for others to prove your worth to you. You already have it. You. Were. Born. With. It.

If you have not yet recognized that you are already worthy and valuable, you will approach others, indeed attract others who will see your agenda to receive proof and validation as bait. They will look to see what it is that you are missing; what it is that you’re seeking for outside of yourself and will use it as a way to convince you that you need something from them. And they will give it to you in return for something that THEY want. Like you, it may be validation and a sense of worthiness. Or it may be significantly more sinister. Either way, so long as you have an agenda, you will attract others who also have an agenda. You are offering another being an awful lot of power over you in return for crumbs. It’s time for you to sit down to a fine meal that you have laid out for yourself. Not to BE someone elses lunch (as LKJ might put it)

As long as you view others as a resource, you open yourself to be drained as a resource, as well. Conscious or not. Notice the word Source. When you are connected to your source, the very Source you came from then you are filled and there is no need to RE-source; an illusion and bare reflection of the real thing. Resources are used and used up. There is no need to use. There is no need to be used. Don’t give others the power to consume you.

 

[KSM23]

Hi Auranimal,

Thank you for sharing your words with me I am very grateful that you have taken the time!

I am interested in "cluster B personalities'? Is this the medical term for socio/psychopaths?

Also, do you know much about the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath?

Thanks a lot once again...

 

[Lauranimal]

Cluster B Personalities describe an array of character disorders, often having overlapping or concurrent existence in one individual. I would suggest you look to Sandra Brown's Women who Love Psychopaths and her websight.

Also some good info here... This is the section of the Cass related sights that I stumbled on to several years ago. If you look along the left side of the page there are more articles and excerpts.

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

There is quite a lot more information available, and it looks like some folks made really good suggestions on your welcome Thread.

And Welcome to you, by the way. Have patience with your self, you have a lot of resources available to read and there is a great deal of support and understanding here.