Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

[Possibility of Being]

Hm, why did they do that? Why releasing so many neonazis, 215 Ukr soldiers in exchange for 55?

From what I have read, the negotiations with Ukraine were very tough, Erdogan and Saudi Arabia were helping to reach an agreement and Donbass authorities wanted as many their people back as possible before the referendums. Probably fearing for their lives after the results are made known and expecting that it may become even more difficult afterwards when full scale war, possibly on the whole Ukrainian territory has developed. They wanted their people back home so much that decided to release some of the most evil war criminals. Some of them have been taken under Erdogan's custody so that they won't show up again on the battlefields. Also, according to some sources (sorry, don't have those links at hand right now) Medvedchuk himself also helped a lot to get some of those kept by UA to be released thugh no details have been made public so far at least as far as I know.

 

[ApotheosisMMC.]

This is added to "we are living the end of abundance", it seems to me that there is a certain awareness (fear-pressure) that the masses are not putting up with the general situation or progressive ideas and measures must be taken or we would see the end of the " democracy".

Macron warns of 'crisis of democracies,' including in US, in exclusive US interview
By Paul LeBlanc, CNN.


Washington(CNN)French President Emmanuel Macron is warning about a "crisis of democracies," including in the United States, following years of "pressure" and "destabilization" efforts in an exclusive US interview with CNN's Jake Tapper.

Asked by Tapper if he's worried about American democracy, Macron replied, "I worry about all of us."

"I hate lecturing people and saying, 'I'm worried for you.' ... But I do believe that what is at stake is what we built in the 18th century," Macron said an interview.


The French leader warned of a global crisis of Western "liberal democracies" when asked by Tapper about the trend in nationalism, populism and racism spreading in Europe and the US.

"I think we have [a] big crisis of democracies, of what I would call liberal democracies. Let's be clear about that. Why? First, because being open societies and being open and very cooperative democracies put pressure on your people. It could destabilize them," Macron said.

"And this is why we always have to articulate the respect of people's willingness, middle class references, and all the progress made by our democracies welcoming different cultures, being open and cooperative. This is a matter of balance," he continued.

"It's clear that during the past few years we've had an increasing pressure on our societies and we are at the point where, in our different countries, there is what I would call a crisis of middle classes."


Macron also said that social media is playing a "very important role for what is at stake in our democracy" -- "for the best and the worst." He said social platforms have been a driver of "fake news" and "new relativism," which he called "a killer for all democracies, because it's completely breaking the relationship to truth, and to science, and the basis of our own democracy."

Macron's comments echo President Joe Biden's broad effort to frame the global competition of the 21st century as one defined by democracies versus autocracies. Such warnings have taken on new weight in recent months as fears of a global recession loom and threats to democracy fester alongside Russia's unprovoked war in Ukraine.

On Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the immediate "partial mobilization" of Russian citizens, a move that threatens to escalate his faltering invasion of Ukraine following a string of defeats that caused recriminations in Moscow.

Putin said in a speech that he would use "all the means at our disposal," and even raised the specter of nuclear weapons, if he deemed the "territorial integrity" of Russia to be jeopardized.

The mobilization means citizens who are in the reserve could be called up, and those with military experience would be subject to conscription, Putin said, adding that the necessary decree had already been signed and took effect on Wednesday.

Macron called the decision a "mistake" and a missed opportunity to "go to a way towards peace."

"A few months ago Vladimir Putin conveys a message: 'I was aggressed by NATO, they triggered the situation and I just reacted.' Now, it's clear for everybody that the leader who decided to go to war, the leader who decided to escalate is President Putin," Macron said.

"And I have no rational explanation," he added, calling the invasion the "strategy of Germany intervention" and a "post-Covid-19 consequence" because of Putin's isolation during the pandemic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/22/politics/emmanuel-macron-democracy-threats/index.html

 

[Olivierlejardinier]

And now almost everyone from the West is upset again. Though most likely they expected it, to bring on further hardships on their citizens and starting with further sanctions.

Here we go (from AP):

EU talks up Russia sanctions but consensus may prove elusive

"Pressed by reporters in New York for details about what might be coming, Borrell said the sanctions would target “new areas of the Russian economy, especially — if I can be a little more concrete — the technological ones.”
“I am sure that we will be able to find a unanimous agreement for the new sanctions package,” he said.
Ursula von der Leyen, who heads the EU’s executive branch — the European Commission — which has been responsible for drawing up most of the sanctions, also appeared resolute, but she was hardly more forthcoming.

“We stand ready to impose further economic costs on Russia and on individuals and entities inside and outside of Russia who support (the war), politically or economically. Plus we will propose additional export controls on civilian technology as Russia moves to a full war economy,” she told CNN.
The European Commission should propose the new measures in coming days, but what is ultimately agreed on is likely to be less ambitious. New sanctions may only come after much debate and hand-wringing among the 27 EU member countries in coming weeks; probably only after the referendums have been held."
___

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Also, according to some sources (sorry, don't have those links at hand right now) Medvedchuk himself also helped a lot to get some of those kept by UA to be released thugh no details have been made public so far at least as far as I know.

No, he isn't. Medvedchuk is a slippery and dodgy type, a friend/partner in Poroshenko's business who pretends to be pro-Russian for his own benefit.
This creature did not help to exchange prisoners from Donetsk and Luhansk regions, he pushed and imposed on Russia and Donetsk/Luhansk to agree to the exchange of SLOW people (criminals, alcoholics and just plain waifs from Ukraine) under the guise of Donbass residents (militiamen, scouts, partisans).
And now Russia has swapped 200 Nazi bastards, whom it swore it would never change and that they would all be punished, for one Medvedchuk.
Even Ramzan Kadyrov was shocked and wrote an angry tirade.


The link below gives more details about Medvedchuk's machinations and dealings with his "help" on the exchanges, it is a text in Russian, from a real POW who was held captive by the Ukrainians and was NOT included on the exchange lists. There are many links, you can paste it all into the translator and read it:
ПриZрак Новороссии



There is also some information that I cannot verify, this is from an insider and analytical Russian channel, nevertheless, you can appreciate a little bit the level of underhanded intrigue and for whom it is war and for whom it is business and personal privileges, as always:


Образ будущего
For the Russian elite the most joyful thing was not the exchange of Medvedchuk (there is no doubt that everyone, without exception, is happy to see our fighters return), but the mercenaries.
Because for the extradition of mercenaries to the West (directly into the hands of MI6 specialists) there were additional voluminous demands from our side.
For example, the partial withdrawal of blocks and freezing of Russian state banks' funds in British accounts. They are talking about VEB (Shuvalov), SPM-Bank (Rotenbergs), banks St. Petersburg and Peresvet.
/ From myself: VEB (in Russian) - Foreign Economic Bank. It was founded in 1922 as Roscombank (Russian Commercial Bank), in 1924 it was transformed into the Bank for Foreign Trade of the USSR (Vneshtorgbank) and got its present name in 1988. 100% of VEB shares are owned by the state. /
Are these, among other things, personal accounts of VEB management? More likely, yes than no. We await explanations from VEB and other banks on these 9-digit sterling accounts.
A good start is half the battle.
In October, an all-for-all exchange is expected to take place at the airport in Ankara, followed by the exchange of Victor Bout and another Russian citizen.


Образ будущего
I encountered a version that we can now expect different videos of Medvedchuk.
We can, but the leaking of his video statements is now easily interpreted as testimony obtained under physical and moral pressure and nothing more.
There is no doubt that there are such videos, and one of the statements could have been shown on the eve of the UN General Assembly to strengthen Zelensky's position (who probably spoke for the first time in history before this audience on behalf of the state demanding more weapons, confusing the UN with NATO).
The main purpose of exchanging Medvedchuk for the top of the Azov command and 110 more nationalist fighters was to block this possible video appeal. Medvedchuk would have accused Russia's top military and political leadership of unleashing war in Ukraine under far-fetched pretexts, massive corruption and other sins. He looks awake and fresh now, with no signs of torture. After such an act, he would leave the territory of Ukraine (under the obligation to appear in court) in the direction of Turkey, where he would reside until the end of the SMO under Erdogan's guarantees.

Spoiler: На русском:

Нет, это не так. Медведчук - скользкий и ушлый тип, это друг/напарник по бизнесу Порошенко, который притворяется пророссийским для собственной выгоды.
Эта тварь НЕ помогала менять пленных людей из Донецкого и Луганского регионов, он продавливал и навязывал России и Донецку/Луганску согласие на обмен СЛУЧАЙНЫХ людей (уголовников, алкоголиков и просто беспризорников из Украины) ПОД ВИДОМ жителей Донбасса (ополченцев, разведчиков, партизан).
И теперь Россия поменяла 200 нацистских ублюдков, которых КЛЯЛАСЬ никогда не менять и что они все понесут наказание, на ОДНОГО Медведчука.
Даже Рамзан Кадыров был шокирован и написал гневную тираду.

По ссылке ниже более подробно о махинациях и делах Медведчука с его "помощью" по обменам, это текст на русском, от реального военнопленного, который БЫЛ у украинцев в плену и которого НЕ включали в обменные списки. Там множество ссылок, можете вставить почитать.


Также есть такая информация, которую я не могу проверить, это из инсайдерского и аналитического российского канала, тем не менее, вы можете оценить немного уровень подковерных интриг и для кого это война, а для кого - бизнес и личные привелегии, как всегда:

Образ будущего
Для российской элиты самым радостным был не обмен Медведчука (нет сомнений, что все без исключения рады возвращению наших бойцов), а наёмников.
Потому что за выдачу на запад наёмников (прямо в руки специалистов Ми-6) с нашей стороны были поставлены дополнительные объёмные требования.
Например частичное снятие блоков и заморозок средств российских госбанков на британских счетах. Говорят, речь о ВЭБе (Шувалов), СПМ-банке (Ротенберги), банках «Санкт-Петербург» и «Пересвет».
Идёт ли речь в том числе о личных счетах руководства ВЭБа? Скорее да чем нет. Ждём разъяснений ВЭБа и других банков по этим 9-значным счетам в фунтах стерлинга.
Хорошее начало - половина дела.
В октябре ожидается обмен всех на всех, он пройдёт в аэропорту Анкары, а после него пройдёт обмен Виктора Бута и ещё одного гражданина РФ.

Образ будущего
Я встретил версию, что теперь можно ожидать разные видео Медведчука.
Можно, но слив его видеопоказаний теперь легко трактуется как полученные под физическим и моральным давлением показания и не более того.
Нет сомнений, что видео такие есть, и одно из заявлений могло быть показано накануне начала Генассамблеи ООН, чтобы усилить позицию Зеленского (который наверное впервые в истории перед этой аудиторией выступал от имени государства с требованием дать больше оружия, перепутав ООН с НАТО).
Именно поэтому Медведчук был обменян в ночь на понедельник перед объявлением о мобилизации и Генассамблеей ООН.
Основная цель обмена Медведчука на верхушку командования Азова и ещё 110 бойцов националистов впридачу, состояла в том, чтобы заблокировать это возможное видеообращение. Медведчук бы обвинил высшее военно-политическое руководство России в развязывании войны на Украине под надуманным предлогом, массовой коррупции и прочих грехах. Выглядит сейчас он бодро, свежо, без признаков пыток. После такого акта он покинул бы территорию Украины (под обязательство явки в суд) в направлении Турции, где проживал бы до окончания СВО под гарантии Эрдогана.

 

[SOTTREADER]

Aidan Aslin and Shaun Pinner were also released. They are 2 mercenaries from the UK. Other captured foreign mercenaries were released too.



As a PR move, Russia have lost on this one. People don't understand the logic of releasing the foreign mercenaries. All one has to do is read comments on pro russian sites or telegram channels to see that this hasn't gone down well and people don't really understand the logic especially when you consider that Russia gave up more people in the exchange.

I know Putin was talking about not bluffing in his most recent speech but I fear he has drawn so many red lines before that got crossed and he did nothing so essentially, nothing will change in Ukraine with regards weapons flowing in and provocations happening all over the place because really, the impression is that he is bluffing. Obviously if he did carry through, that would be war on a scale to send Europe back to the stone ages and drastically reduce the population.

 

[T.C.]

As a PR move, Russia have lost on this one. People don't understand the logic of releasing the foreign mercenaries.

I think it’s heartless to not see the point in securing the release of a group of men who were captured while fighting for the freedom and protection of others.

How sad.

 

[Eulenspiegel]

I think the main problem is that this prisoner swap occured right after the call for partial mobilisation. The timing is just so incredibly bad. And no, I don't think it can be spun to interpret it as a "signal to kill" in the future. You could give those orders directly while preventing public frustration.
The PR battle was immediately lost by Russia, and the idea of Azov leaders walking around scot-free will have bad moral effects on both the Russian troops that gave their life to capture them as well as the mobilized reserve fighters.
They should have at least kept the prisoner swap secret, and not let it turn into such a huge PR loss.

 

[SOTTREADER]

I think it’s heartless to not see the point in securing the release of a group of men who were captured while fighting for the freedom and protection of others.

How sad.

I wouldn't go this extreme and pull on emotions in this way. From comments, people simply

• Don't understand why foreign mercenaries were released as it sends the wrong message
• Don't understand why Russia received less captured soldiers in return. What about all the other Russian soldiers who have been captured
• Don't have an explanation from their government (russian) on the logic that led to the deal looking this way

People are not

• Saying the Russian soldiers should not have been released/exchanged
• Being heartless

One can't simply deny the reality of how people have interpreted this move.

 

[Esote]

I know Putin was talking about not bluffing in his most recent speech but I fear he has drawn so many red lines before that got crossed and he did nothing so essentially, nothing will change in Ukraine with regards weapons flowing in and provocations happening all over the place because really, the impression is that he is bluffing. Obviously if he did carry through, that would be war on a scale to send Europe back to the stone ages and drastically reduce the population.

Not so obviously, I don't think that if Putin "did carry through, that would be war on a scale to send Europe back to the stone ages", this would be madness...
Bluffing, warning, yes. But not willing to get into drastic solutions. Until what, when ? Let's hope that the chess players in charge of this mess won't loose their nerves !

 

[Scottie]

Maybe I'm missing something, but Russian didn't exchange prisoners and send them back to Ukraine. They were sent to Saudi Arabia, and I also heard to Turkey...

Of course, those countries have promised to return the people to their homelands. Now, call me crazy, but I'm not sure how it makes sense that Russians are sent back to Russia, but Ukies are sent to Turkey and SA - esp. if Westerners are included in that group.

I know, I know - "neutral" 3rd party country instead of war zone... But I suspect there's a lot more to it than meets the eye!

 

[Cosmos]

I think it’s heartless to not see the point in securing the release of a group of men who were captured while fighting for the freedom and protection of others.

How sad.

Indeed. I still don’t understand „the fuss“ about the prisoners exchange. IMO what the russian government is doing is clearly the right and decent thing to do.

Look at it in this way; which of the following two priorities is more important?

1: Justice and/or revenge on Nazis and/or deluded people (by Propaganda for example) who probably did outrages things on innocent people in the recent past: by imprisoning or killing those Nazis.

2: Exchanging those Nazis to a country that wants them, in exchange for probably innocent and decent people who are imprisoned and probably tortured by monsters RIGHT NOW and thereby saving the lives and/or mental well-being of those people, while thereby also getting rid of those Nazis in your own country (russia).

Clearly, option two is the right and decent thing to do.

Edit: Spelling

 

[Snow]

Maybe I'm missing something, but Russian didn't exchange prisoners and send them back to Ukraine. They were sent to Saudi Arabia, and I also heard to Turkey...

Of course, those countries have promised to return the people to their homelands. Now, call me crazy, but I'm not sure how it makes sense that Russians are sent back to Russia, but Ukies are sent to Turkey and SA - esp. if Westerners are included in that group.

I know, I know - "neutral" 3rd party country instead of war zone... But I suspect there's a lot more to it than meets the eye!

Exactly. (Apart from asking the Cs directly) we are not privy to the details of the prisoner exchange. We can only speculate and let our emotions run amok. Personally I think it will only fan on the average Russian soldier's desire to shoot to kill, rather than take prisoner. And who knows, maybe it was less of a headache for the Russians to not kill Aidan Aslin and the like, since they were very much in the sights of the media. Who knows. In the macro view of events, its a very minor event, osit.

 

[Kmicic]

Indeed. Is still don’t understand „the fuss“ about the prisoners exchange. IMO what the russian government is doing is clearly the right and decent thing to do.

Look at it in this way; which of the following two priorities is more important?

1: Justice and/or revenge on Nazis and/or deluded people (by Propaganda for example) who probably did outrages things on innocent people in the recent past, by imprisoning or killing those Nazis.

2: Exchanging those Nazis to a country that wants them, in exchange for probably innocent and decent people who are imprisoned and probably tortured by monsters RIGHT NOW and thereby saving there lives and/or mental well-being of those people, while thereby also getting rid of those Nazis in your own country (russia)

Clearly, option two is the right and decent thing to do.

As I see it here it's not about exchange at all, it's about what Putin said. The Azow battalion should carry the consequences of their action according to previous Russian words. Also the main purpose was to wipe out Nazi from UK. When they give out the Azows it's like they would say to people: "We are as all politicians in our world, we do what we want not what we should do according to what we say"

 

[ziutek]

As I see it here it's not about exchange at all, it's about what Putin said. The Azow battalion should carry the consequences of their action according to previous Russian words. Also the main purpose was to wipe out Nazi from UK. When they give out the Azows it's like they would say to people: "We are as all politicians in our world, we do what we want not what we should do according to what we say"

Or the Russians value the lives of decent people (their own soldiers) higher than good PR.

 

[Elisasheva]

As I see it here it's not about exchange at all, it's about what Putin said. The Azow battalion should carry the consequences of their action according to previous Russian words. Also the main purpose was to wipe out Nazi from UK. When they give out the Azows it's like they would say to people: "We are as all politicians in our world, we do what we want not what we should do according to what we say"

Yes, Russians mainly point out that their politicians lie to them as well as western politicians lie to their people and are also corrupt. They are very disappointed.
It was similar situation when on March Putin said that no reservists will be called out:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572867519102296065

But I personally think that he might not have yet realized that Russia is fighting with whole NATO, US and EU. Maybe he thought that it won't escalate to the extent that he'd need extra people in the army.
Plus... It's still politics. They need to somehow reassure people.