Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine
- Thread starter bjorb
- Start date
It's reasonable to consider sabotage, given the coincidence with the announcement that no Trump-Putin summit will take place in Budapest for now, but the fire at the Hungarian refinery didn't cause substantial damage and has already been contained, plus the reason Moscow and DC gave for not holding another summit - no substantial changes in their positions on resolving the Ukraine war - means there's no reason for the leaders to meet at this point.
In other news, a former US State Dept official told Sky News he thinks the real ratio of Ukrainian to Russian losses is 36:1
That's more than double what we heard in this Cs session (15:1), but it may map to reality in terms of recent Ukrainian losses rather than the overall war.
axj
The Living Force
Both Russia and Hungary are saying that the cancellation of the summit is fake news:
www.rt.com
Hungary blasts ‘fake news’ about Putin-Trump meeting
The “pro-war political elite” is trying to thwart the summit between the Russian and the US leaders, Budapest has warned
According to local sources, there was no explosion in the MAL refinery.
Domestic Fuel Supply Unaffected by Refinery Fire, MOL Assures
2025.10.22.
On top of that, Magyar Nemzet reported today:
Is so difficult to understand, I guess.
From DDPolitics TC
You do think the new sanctions will do the trick? I do not think so, though.
DD Politics
The reason they are conducting these tests is because where there's smoke, there's fire, right?
From Ostasko! Important TC
From DDPolitics TC
Trump has canceled plans for a Budapest summit with Putin, saying it would be a “waste of time.”
The White House concluded that Russia is still clinging to its maximalist demands, including full control of the Donbas region, rejecting Trump’s proposal to freeze the war along current frontlines.
You do think the new sanctions will do the trick? I do not think so, though.
DD Politics
The reason they are conducting these tests is because where there's smoke, there's fire, right?
From Ostasko! Important TC
axj
The Living Force
It was recently posted that Putin compared a premature end of the conflict to the humiliating peace in WW1 by the bolsheviks which as he said dishonored the sacrifices of so many.
And indeed now that the most difficult part of the Ukraine war seems to be over for Russia and they are winnng, why should they agree to anything less than the fulfillment of their objectives?
Russia even seemed to step back their initial core demands for denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine as a step towards Trump in the negotiations. I am not sure if he fully appreciates that when claiming that Russia is sticking to maximalist demands - or maybe Trump is just blustering and bending the truth as usual as part of negotiations.
And indeed now that the most difficult part of the Ukraine war seems to be over for Russia and they are winnng, why should they agree to anything less than the fulfillment of their objectives?
Russia even seemed to step back their initial core demands for denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine as a step towards Trump in the negotiations. I am not sure if he fully appreciates that when claiming that Russia is sticking to maximalist demands - or maybe Trump is just blustering and bending the truth as usual as part of negotiations.
NATO countries have purchased $2 billion worth of weapons from the US for Ukraine, NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said.
axj
The Living Force
Perhaps surprisingly, the latest US sanctions on Russian oil companies seem to have a major effect:
www.rt.com
Indian refiners likely to halt Russian oil imports – media
Indian refiners are reportedly expected to stop crude purchases from Russia due to new US sanctions on Rosneft and Lukoil
Evan
The Living Force
I think Alexander Mercouris summed the “Trump-Putin Budapest Summit” circumstances well in the first 10 minutes. Though the summary leaves out Alexander’s detail that the summit was only an idea mentioned during the phone call, and Russia never really agreed on a date; Trump simply announced it out of turn.
Budapest Summit Cancellation
- The Budapest summit, initially planned by US President Trump, has been canceled, with indications that it may occur at a later date.
- Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Sarto met with US Senator Marco Rubio, expressing that the meeting would take place in the future but without a specified timeframe.
- Russian officials have echoed similar sentiments, stating that while the summit is still anticipated, no concrete timeline is available, emphasizing ongoing discussions with American partners.
- It was noted that the summit will not occur in the immediate future, with suggestions that it could be postponed for an extended period, potentially years.
- The discussion highlighted Trump's unpredictable nature, suggesting that he might change plans unexpectedly, which adds to the uncertainty surrounding the summit.
Escalation of Tensions with Russia
- The conversation shifted to Trump's fluctuating stance regarding Russia, noting a recent escalation in rhetoric and actions contrary to previous periods of relative calm.
- It was mentioned that while Trump previously appeared to downplay tensions, he has recently reverted to a more aggressive posture towards Russia.
- The Russian perspective remains one of admiration for Trump, despite the growing tensions, indicating a complex diplomatic relationship.
- The discussion framed the situation as a fiasco for multiple parties involved, including the United States, Russia, and Iran, highlighting the chaotic nature of international relations at present.
Putin and Trump's Previous Understandings
- The dialogue referenced previous agreements made between Trump and Putin during a meeting in Alaska, the details of which remain unclear but are believed to involve discussions on Ukraine.
- It was suggested that Russia expected Ukraine to withdraw from the Donbass region in exchange for a ceasefire, a proposal that has not been publicly confirmed.
- Trump's failure to follow up with Russia on these understandings has led to frustration, as he has instead focused on sanctions and military support for Ukraine.
- The lack of communication following the Alaska meeting has reportedly increased pressure on Putin, with Russian officials expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of negotiations.
Cancellation of the Budapest Summit and Its Implications
- Trump's cancellation of the Budapest summit was interpreted as a strategic move to avoid returning to Putin without any substantial agreements to present.
- The conversation highlighted the humiliation faced by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who had prepared for the summit based on earlier assurances.
- Orban's political future was questioned, with implications that the failed summit could negatively impact his standing in Hungary.
- The dialogue suggested that Orban's alignment with Trump may have backfired, leaving him vulnerable in a rapidly changing political landscape.
Trump's Foreign Policy and Decision-Making
- The discussion critiqued Trump's decision-making process, suggesting he is unable to take a firm stance on foreign policy matters, particularly regarding Ukraine and Russia.
- It was posited that Trump is influenced by neoconservative elements within his administration, which complicates his ability to pursue an independent foreign policy.
- The conversation noted that Trump's actions often reflect a desire to appease various factions, leading to inconsistencies in his approach to international relations.
- Concerns were raised about Trump's reluctance to disengage from Ukraine, despite the challenges and pressures he faces from other political entities.
Future of US-Russia Relations
- The dialogue speculated on the future of US-Russia relations, indicating that the current trajectory appears to be one of continued escalation rather than resolution.
- It was suggested that both Trump and Putin may have misjudged each other's willingness to negotiate, leading to a breakdown in diplomatic efforts.
- The potential for further military actions and sanctions was discussed, with the implication that these could lead to a protracted conflict.
- Overall, the conversation painted a picture of a complex and deteriorating relationship between the US and Russia, with significant implications for global stability.
Conclusion on Trump's Role and Orban's Position
- The discussion concluded with reflections on Trump's role in the conflict and how his actions have left allies like Orban in precarious positions.
- Orban's future as a leader was questioned, with suggestions that his reliance on Trump for support may have backfired amidst the current geopolitical climate.
- The conversation emphasized the need for leaders to navigate the complexities of international relations carefully, highlighting the unpredictable nature of Trump's decisions.
- Ultimately, the dialogue underscored the challenges facing both Trump and Orban as they attempt to manage their respective political landscapes in light of shifting alliances and tensions.
Budapest Summit Cancellation
- The Budapest summit, initially planned by US President Trump, has been canceled, with indications that it may occur at a later date.
- Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Sarto met with US Senator Marco Rubio, expressing that the meeting would take place in the future but without a specified timeframe.
- Russian officials have echoed similar sentiments, stating that while the summit is still anticipated, no concrete timeline is available, emphasizing ongoing discussions with American partners.
- It was noted that the summit will not occur in the immediate future, with suggestions that it could be postponed for an extended period, potentially years.
- The discussion highlighted Trump's unpredictable nature, suggesting that he might change plans unexpectedly, which adds to the uncertainty surrounding the summit.
Escalation of Tensions with Russia
- The conversation shifted to Trump's fluctuating stance regarding Russia, noting a recent escalation in rhetoric and actions contrary to previous periods of relative calm.
- It was mentioned that while Trump previously appeared to downplay tensions, he has recently reverted to a more aggressive posture towards Russia.
- The Russian perspective remains one of admiration for Trump, despite the growing tensions, indicating a complex diplomatic relationship.
- The discussion framed the situation as a fiasco for multiple parties involved, including the United States, Russia, and Iran, highlighting the chaotic nature of international relations at present.
Putin and Trump's Previous Understandings
- The dialogue referenced previous agreements made between Trump and Putin during a meeting in Alaska, the details of which remain unclear but are believed to involve discussions on Ukraine.
- It was suggested that Russia expected Ukraine to withdraw from the Donbass region in exchange for a ceasefire, a proposal that has not been publicly confirmed.
- Trump's failure to follow up with Russia on these understandings has led to frustration, as he has instead focused on sanctions and military support for Ukraine.
- The lack of communication following the Alaska meeting has reportedly increased pressure on Putin, with Russian officials expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of negotiations.
Cancellation of the Budapest Summit and Its Implications
- Trump's cancellation of the Budapest summit was interpreted as a strategic move to avoid returning to Putin without any substantial agreements to present.
- The conversation highlighted the humiliation faced by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who had prepared for the summit based on earlier assurances.
- Orban's political future was questioned, with implications that the failed summit could negatively impact his standing in Hungary.
- The dialogue suggested that Orban's alignment with Trump may have backfired, leaving him vulnerable in a rapidly changing political landscape.
Trump's Foreign Policy and Decision-Making
- The discussion critiqued Trump's decision-making process, suggesting he is unable to take a firm stance on foreign policy matters, particularly regarding Ukraine and Russia.
- It was posited that Trump is influenced by neoconservative elements within his administration, which complicates his ability to pursue an independent foreign policy.
- The conversation noted that Trump's actions often reflect a desire to appease various factions, leading to inconsistencies in his approach to international relations.
- Concerns were raised about Trump's reluctance to disengage from Ukraine, despite the challenges and pressures he faces from other political entities.
Future of US-Russia Relations
- The dialogue speculated on the future of US-Russia relations, indicating that the current trajectory appears to be one of continued escalation rather than resolution.
- It was suggested that both Trump and Putin may have misjudged each other's willingness to negotiate, leading to a breakdown in diplomatic efforts.
- The potential for further military actions and sanctions was discussed, with the implication that these could lead to a protracted conflict.
- Overall, the conversation painted a picture of a complex and deteriorating relationship between the US and Russia, with significant implications for global stability.
Conclusion on Trump's Role and Orban's Position
- The discussion concluded with reflections on Trump's role in the conflict and how his actions have left allies like Orban in precarious positions.
- Orban's future as a leader was questioned, with suggestions that his reliance on Trump for support may have backfired amidst the current geopolitical climate.
- The conversation emphasized the need for leaders to navigate the complexities of international relations carefully, highlighting the unpredictable nature of Trump's decisions.
- Ultimately, the dialogue underscored the challenges facing both Trump and Orban as they attempt to manage their respective political landscapes in light of shifting alliances and tensions.
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