Quantum Physics Question

[ark]

Indeed, it is Dan Winter's type of nonsense. If you will find anything reasonable there - it would be a surprise for me. So, if you want to surprise me - find just one reasonable thing. These people write about subjects that they do not really grasp. It's so much easier!

 

[EmeraldHope]

On the surface a few of the ideas over there sound reasonable. Two things in particular that come to mind is that of "meritocracy" , where poeple are advanced in position based on merit, not ties to a moneyed and powerful family or interests, and making laws to abolish greed, so that the very top income earners are rewared a bit more for their efforts, based on results, but not disproportionately more.


The devil in the details, discounting the obvious twisiting of certain other ideas, is that no matter how good some of it sounds, it is based on the schizoidal declaration that a small group of inner directed people skilled in psychology, must of course be in charge and run everything. ( They of course imply it is them that should do so).

They also seek to totally abolish the family, as familiy ties make people only care about there own children, and not everyone elses.

 

[ark]

I really woder why there are so many Dan Winter's type around and why people are so easily taken by this kind of a nonsense. For instance recently on my Polish blog a very intelligent and educated lady has fallen into the trap set by Tom Bearden and company about Maxwell's equations and quaternions. She got obsessed about it, started repeating internet nonsense, but did not care to check herself what the truth is. And it is so easy: just go to the sources. Examine the sources, examine every claim made, if you have problems with understanding - ask several different experts, check one against the other, and in most cases you get a pretty good idea as to who is spreading disinfo.

 

[Guardian]

Indeed, it is Dan Winter's type of nonsense. If you will find anything reasonable there - it would be a surprise for me. So, if you want to surprise me - find just one reasonable thing.

I found _www.danwinter.com to be a very reasonable and well thought out website

http://www.danwinter.com/

ADMIN NOTE: activated link. This is one we don't mind linking to.

 

[Laura]

From danwinter.com

REWARD
Meru Foundation is offering substantial rewards and "finders' fees" for information that leads to the collection of the $140,000 in court costs and interest owed to it by Mr. Daniel E. Winter.

If you have done business with Mr. Winter, or have information with regard to his business and/or business partners, please contact reward@danwinter.com for further information.
Meru Foundation is also accumulating evidence for possible future legal action (US and world-wide) with regard to Mr. Winter's (and those acting with and for him) new plagiarism and disparagement. If you have purchased copies of Mr. Winter's illicit works, if you have attended presentations by Mr. Winter, or those working with and for him, or if you have other first-hand knowledge or physical evidence of the new -- and quite obvious -- works of plagiarism and disparagement, please contact action@danwinter.com.

I believe that includes a number of people we know about...

 

[Guardian]

From danwinter.com

REWARD
Meru Foundation is offering substantial rewards and "finders' fees" for information that leads to the collection of the $140,000 in court costs and interest owed to it by Mr. Daniel E. Winter.

If you have done business with Mr. Winter, or have information with regard to his business and/or business partners, please contact reward@danwinter.com for further information.
Meru Foundation is also accumulating evidence for possible future legal action (US and world-wide) with regard to Mr. Winter's (and those acting with and for him) new plagiarism and disparagement. If you have purchased copies of Mr. Winter's illicit works, if you have attended presentations by Mr. Winter, or those working with and for him, or if you have other first-hand knowledge or physical evidence of the new -- and quite obvious -- works of plagiarism and disparagement, please contact action@danwinter.com.

I believe that includes a number of people we know about...

Yup... http://www.danwinter.com/ (repeated for SEO ) is a LOVELY website...just chock full of interesting information. I'm especially fond of all the scanned court documents provided by the authors. Saves me sooooo much time, very considerate of them! If you're going to publicly expose a predator PLEASSSEEE don't make me chase down the documentation, just scan it, post it, and save us both a bunch of emails.

I believe http://www.danwinter.com/ and the Reward for Dan Winter info and collection assistance notice have already been mentioned in several other topics...but it never hurts to stick it in any thread containing his name.

 

[Guardian]

Dan Winter's schedule for the year...just in case anyone wants to have him served with anything

_http://www.goldenmean.info/course/

 

[Guardian]

http://www.danwinter.com/GermanAdvisory-English.html

Translator's notes:

1The Federal Court and the Bankruptcy court awarded the Tenens and Meru Foundation court costs for two separate actions. Meru and the Tenens did not sue for damages. Including interest, the amount Mr. Winter owes the Tenens and Meru Foundation is now over $120,000.

2"Willful and malicious" is the precise legal term in English used by the Federal Court.

3Mr. Winter paid $10,000 of the original $85,000 judgment against him directly to the Tenens' and Meru Foundation's attorney, at the close of court in 1998. He has paid nothing since.

4In fact, Mr. Winter will be arrested by the US Marshal's Service if and when he enters the United States via any US airport, or other border crossing, and transported to Rochester, NY.

 

[ark]

Well, Dan Winter and his fans is not that interesting and does not really deserve a space here, or so I think. So I went back to the site mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I am reading there:

The physical can influence the mental but not determine it. The mental, however, can certainly determine the physical. Perform this experiment: think to yourself that you are going to raise your right arm, but then don't actually do so. Wait a few moments and then actually do it. The mere thinking of the thought isn't enough to cause your arm to be raised; you have to will it to happen. Watch your arm as you raise it and consider how miraculous it is that a physical object moves for no other reason that you have willed it to do so.

Convincing, isn't it?

But: can you spot logical twists in the argument above?

 

[Guardian]

Well, Dan Winter and his fans is not that interesting and does not really deserve a space here, or so I think. So I went back to the site mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I am reading there:

Sorry for straying off topic Ark.

The physical can influence the mental but not determine it. The mental, however, can certainly determine the physical. Perform this experiment: think to yourself that you are going to raise your right arm, but then don't actually do so. Wait a few moments and then actually do it.

Convincing, isn't it?

Convincing of what? That your arm goes up and down when you tell it to? Unless you've had a stroke or something, that's pretty much how it should work...Think: "arm up" ..it goes up Think: " arm down" ...it goes down what's his point...that we can move?

But: can you spot logical twists in the argument above?

Probably not...it just looks stupid to me. Yes, self thinks then body does ...DUH? What does that have to do with whether or not your physical can determine your mental (another big "duh") anyway? Sorry but none of it looks logical enough to me to even have a twist?

 

[John G]

The physical can influence the mental but not determine it. The mental, however, can certainly determine the physical...

But: can you spot logical twists in the argument above?

Well without even getting into anybody's philosophy or science, right off the bat the brain sure seems like it could be a physical thing determining the mental. In fact you need some some really good philosophy (like Gurdjieff) and some really good physics (like EEQT) for it to even seem like its possible for the brain to be anything other than a fully mechanical thing. It seems much much harder to put free will into a model than it is to keep it out. It is certainly easy to have an illusion of free will but a good philosophical/scientific model for it is not easy at all.

 

[Peam]

Well, Dan Winter and his fans is not that interesting and does not really deserve a space here, or so I think. So I went back to the site mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I am reading there:

The physical can influence the mental but not determine it. The mental, however, can certainly determine the physical. Perform this experiment: think to yourself that you are going to raise your right arm, but then don't actually do so. Wait a few moments and then actually do it. The mere thinking of the thought isn't enough to cause your arm to be raised; you have to will it to happen. Watch your arm as you raise it and consider how miraculous it is that a physical object moves for no other reason that you have willed it to do so.

Convincing, isn't it?

But: can you spot logical twists in the argument above?

Well if your hand is on a hot stove your arm will move all by itself.

 

[herondancer]

oooohhh, these sorts of questions always make me nervous. Here's one possibility.

It would be false to extrapolate the action of a thought on a body part, where there is more or less a direct connection through the brain-nerve-muscle, to implying that thoughts can have an effect on physicality in general.

Is that at least in the ballpark? :P

 

[EmeraldHope]

Well, Dan Winter and his fans is not that interesting and does not really deserve a space here, or so I think. So I went back to the site mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I am reading there:

The physical can influence the mental but not determine it. The mental, however, can certainly determine the physical. Perform this experiment: think to yourself that you are going to raise your right arm, but then don't actually do so. Wait a few moments and then actually do it. The mere thinking of the thought isn't enough to cause your arm to be raised; you have to will it to happen. Watch your arm as you raise it and consider how miraculous it is that a physical object moves for no other reason that you have willed it to do so.

Convincing, isn't it?

But: can you spot logical twists in the argument above?

The physical can influence the mental but not determine it

False Assumption: The physcial brain, if damaged, defective,operated on, or introduced to chemicals from an outside physical source, most definately can influence and scientifically determine the mental. Unresolved programs can be triggered also by physical imput that lead to reactions that the mental has no contol over.

The mental, however, can certainly determine the physical. Perform this experiment: think to yourself that you are going to raise your right arm, but then don't actually do so. Wait a few moments and then actually do it. The mere thinking of the thought isn't enough to cause your arm to be raised; you have to will it to happen. Watch your arm as you raise it and consider how miraculous it is that a physical object moves for no other reason that you have willed it to do so

Twisted logic: First they state that the mental can certainly determine the physical. But then they state that that mere thinking isn't enough- what you actually need is will. They are equating mental with will. Very few people have any real will. So that is an illogical conclusion.

This also implies to the reader that since you can will your own arm to raise,( something you are physically attached to ) you therefore can use your mental/will to control the physical universe. We have now entered into the realm of wishful thinking/STS.

Addendum- Herondancer you posted while I was typing- we seem to be in the same ballpark.

 

[Guardian]

Well if your hand is on a hot stove your arm will move all by itself.

"Itself" is YOUR self...and at some level your self is saying "Hand's on fire...move it!! This input, thought, action process happens VERY fast (hopefully) but it still only occurs if you're conscious. If for some reason you're unconscious and your hand falls onto a hot stove, it's gonna fry without your mind to reason out what's happening to your body part and correct the condition.

That said, I still don't get the significance of someone pointing out that people can flap their arms?