Question and feedback - unusual experience

Menna said:
I am going to lead with the excuse why I dont leave and then the latest reason why I am questioning things...

First - Her mom is sick in recovery (Cancer)

Second - She lied to me about smoking. When I first met her she told me a month into dating her that she smoked it was a bad habbit and she was going to quit I told her I didnt like it and it bothered me. We went through this during the first 8 months of our relationship and she said she wanted to quit for herself bc she did it for someone else before and she didnt want to hide it from me and I didnt want to push. SO finnaly she quit in June. The way I found out was I was in her car. Went to put my keys, wallet in her center console. Lifted it up and she pushed my hand down and said no lift the top part. (I thought that was strange) so when I went to get them out I lifted it all the way she pushed my hand down again but I saw the pack of cigs in there. I smelt it on her a few weeks ago but didnt say anything and now the evidence is clear she hid it from me and lied. I told her its not so much about the smoking but that you hid it from me lied and pushed my hand down twice. Told her that trust took a big hit in our relationship that I have been nothing but honest, supportive and open and respectfull in this relationship and dont deserve this treatment. With all the little stuff and now the lieing I am starting to see the writting on the wall. Sorry to put my person petty stuff on here but it is on my mind. Now to the reason why I am hesitant to break up right now.

She needs the support, I care about her deeply and her mom is ill and she has alot of her plate (this was her excuse for hiding it saying she was streched too thin). I cant hurt her right now with the family situation that she is in. IF it means I am not the happiest I should be for a few months then so be it I guess. I know I am not doing whats best for myself but I just don't kn.ow. I mean I know but at the same time I don't. I guess I have to be a man and make a decission and honor it

Just relax, I'm sure she needs you like that, if she wants to smoke, then you shouldn't have made her feel like she has to hide it from you. Besides smoking is a good thing, it may give her the relaxation her brain needs in difficult times like this.

Hope you get to step out of the situation and look at it objectively, I personally don't understand why you'd depend your happiness on her, don't you think she has enough pain and emotional burdens already?
 
I never made her feel like she has to hide it from me thats the thing. I told her how I felt about it from day one she continued to smoke for 8 months I didnt say another word after my first response. I left it up to her. She lied about quiting in month 6 and then said I want to do it for my self and I dont want to hide it from you. I said ok I respect that. I let her do her thing and she "quit" June 1st. and now she is hiding from me. Never put pressure on her, never nagged her. This isnt the point but feel like I have to defend myslef
 
Im not putting my happiness on her. What I am saying is that right now one of the reasons I am going to be in a relationship is because I don't want to hurt someone because they need all the support they can get. By doing this I am not doing whats best for me. Then I went on to say I have to be a man and own my decision and not complain about it. I dont think this is putting my happiness on her
 
Menna said:
Im not putting my happiness on her. What I am saying is that right now one of the reasons I am going to be in a relationship is because I don't want to hurt someone because they need all the support they can get. By doing this I am not doing whats best for me.

It's also a lie to do such a thing.

m said:
Then I went on to say I have to be a man and own my decision and not complain about it. I dont think this is putting my happiness on her

I think it's reasonable to assume that you gave many non-verbal signs over time about her smoking that encouraged her to quit, for you. Else, she'd not have lied about it. She lied about it to give you a very specific impression because she understood that that's what you wanted. I'm not blaming you for her behavior, but just pointing out that when you say you didn't tell her to quit, there are many ways to tell a person to quit.

Overall, it sounds to me like you got into this relationship for the reasons most people get into relationships, for sex and companionship and narcissistic supply and now that time has passed and the reality of who she is is setting in, you're having second thoughts. As always in such situations, there is probably someone out there who can actually appreciate her for exactly who she is and appreciate her smoking - in other words, the longer you stay with her out of some misguided knight in shining armor program, the longer you keep her from finding the person who will make her happy.

Might be time to consider that she'll be better off without you, because she will. If that weren't the case, we'd not be having this discussion.
 
[quote author=menna]
Now to the reason why I am hesitant to break up right now.

She needs the support, I care about her deeply and her mom is ill and she has alot of her plate (this was her excuse for hiding it saying she was streched too thin). I cant hurt her right now with the family situation that she is in. IF it means I am not the happiest I should be for a few months then so be it I guess. I know I am not doing whats best for myself but I just don't kn.ow. I mean I know but at the same time I don't. I guess I have to be a man and make a decission and honor it[/quote]

I could be wrong, but the above says to me that since you know how guilt works to rationalize your non-straightforward behavior, I would think you would grant girlfriend the same understanding, since she probably used her sense of guilt to rationalize hiding her smoking. Wouldn't your issue be due to a double-standard if I'm reading it right?
 
Anart. This was my frist relationship at 25 years old. Also my first sexual experience. I went into this relationship wanting to get to know her and to honor, respect and make her happy. She said she didnt know a relationship could be like this that I make her very happy that she didnt know she could be this happy.

I took her for her word in the beginning and then she lied and said she would quit in april. Then she said she wants to quit for herself and didnt want to hide it from me. She said she quit June 1st. I said I have to give you credit I think its great that you want to be healthy it shows that you want the best for yourself and us. Thats the real reason why I didnt want her to smoke. I never said anything about the smell or taste when I kissed her bc if cigarettes werent bad for you then I wouldnt care. But we both want children a family and I want to be with my girlfrined/wife for as long as possible. Her grandma died of cancer her mother currently is struggling with cancer. Smoking causes cancer. Now she is hidding it or was hidding it from me. She said its one cig at night but I have tasted it and smelled it on her at other times during the day. Another lie. Im not saying she is right and I am wrong I am presenting the facts. When I got involved with her I said to myslef it is unreasonable to meet someone at 25 years old and expect them to rid themselves of their habbits right away. So I didnt push let her do it herself. She couldn't. Now its time for me to make a decision this coupled with a few others things that have happened. This is the only women outside of family that I have cared about and given her current family situation and the facts that I do love her for who she is thats why I am still with her but at the same time I have to be happy living with someone and being with that someone. You can still love someone for who they are and not be with them. I also made the decision to go out with someone who smoked and said they would quit so I took that risk I know this. I am just alitte unsure and confused right now. Looking for answers.

Bud - She said she hid it from me because she doesnt want me to be ashamed of her. I told her im not ashamed as I know how stressed she is givin the situation but dissapointed that she hid it from me as I thought we were closer than that.
 
Considering the social stigma that has been attached to smoking by the PTB, when a person knows their partner doesn't approve of the smoking and knows their partner has received the same brainwashing, it makes for a difficult situation.

The smoker (unless they've been reading the same research we've uncovered) has developed a belief that smoking is harmful and has to hide their habit from society for fear of rejection. The self is already rejecting the individual due to the brainwashing, so there's already significant friction and pain going on, on some level. To add to the mix, the partner also demonstrates contempt for smoking, thus threatening further rejection.

However, the draw to smoking is powerful. The additives can be highly addictive, there are several chemical rewards and physical and mental health benefits that go with smoking and it is pleasurable. As well, we've discovered there are some who are genetically predisposed to smoking. This creates a significant schism, since one part wants to quit and the other wants to continue. As much as hiding it from you, she also is hiding her lack of true commitment to quit from herself, fearing further judgment and rejection from both herself, her partner and society at large.

It's never as simple as "she lied to me".

You might want to read up on why we feel smoking is beneficial and why smoking bans exist. There's plenty of research and discussion, both on this forum and on SOTT - the search function should yield quite a bit, but an interesting thread is "Smoking is...good?" at: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,84.0.html

Back to the shadow. If you read about Carl Jung's concept of the shadow, it's where we throw all of the aspects of ourselves that we feel are unacceptable, initially as children fearing the loss of parental love and later, as adults, fearing the loss of self love.

Families, cities and countries can have shadows, where there "perverse" or "barbaric" tendencies (at least, as seen through programmed perception), are relegated.

I'm thinking we can also create shadows of others, where we hide their behaviours that we don't want to see, from ourselves. Perhaps you were seeing the shadow you created of your partner and it revealed itself, or more fittingly, you chose to see it, albeit momentarily. This would therefore be more about a conversation between your conscious and subconscious than about your partner.

Something to consider, anyway.

I think you are being dishonest with yourself and your partner. Since you seem to hold honesty in such high regard, you might want to step outside yourself, as much as possible to consider some of the difficult truths that have been said to you.

Even though you feel this relationship isn't right, you are trying to save yourself the guilt from ending it by using the convenience of timing. The relationship is no better now than it will be after the family has dealt with this difficult situation. So, the honest to goodness truth is that you want to end your relationship. Everything else is rationalization and self protection.

Certainly, there's much to be said about protecting someone you care about from a further trauma when they are already wounded, so that could be your next discussion, be it with the forum, with friends and family or just with your self. But the first step would be to be clear and honest with yourself that you want to end this relationship and that you are intentionally hiding this truth, being dishonest, with your partner.

Perhaps your subconscious realization of this double standard that you apply to your partner but not yourself, triggered the shadow's appearance.

Gonzo
 
Gonzo said:
I think you are being dishonest with yourself and your partner. Since you seem to hold honesty in such high regard, you might want to step outside yourself, as much as possible to consider some of the difficult truths that have been said to you.

Even though you feel this relationship isn't right, you are trying to save yourself the guilt from ending it by using the convenience of timing. The relationship is no better now than it will be after the family has dealt with this difficult situation. So, the honest to goodness truth is that you want to end your relationship. Everything else is rationalization and self protection.

Certainly, there's much to be said about protecting someone you care about from a further trauma when they are already wounded, so that could be your next discussion, be it with the forum, with friends and family or just with your self. But the first step would be to be clear and honest with yourself that you want to end this relationship and that you are intentionally hiding this truth, being dishonest, with your partner.

Perhaps your subconscious realization of this double standard that you apply to your partner but not yourself, triggered the shadow's appearance.

Gonzo

I totally agree with Gonzo here, it's not your place to mold her into what you wish she could become. If she told you she didn't wanted to tell you about her smoking because she didn't wanted you to be ashamed of her, then you MUST be pushing her into doing as you like. I apologize, but I personally don't believe what your telling us about the dynamics in your relationship, I think you're caught up in wishful thinking.
 
Hi, as Gonzo explained, there is more about cancer and smoking. Not always cancer comes from smoking tobacco, there are good articles at sott regarding that issue:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/139304-Let-s-All-Light-Up-
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/234667-Pestilence-the-Great-Plague-and-the-Tobacco-Cure

It seems to me that her smoking habit it is really a problem to you, perhaps she made the commitment due to social pressure and being done some how unconsciously, and that could be the main problem ... and it comes to my mind the black shadow. I had not had that kind of paranormal experiences by myself -thankfully- although I had a friend who knows about this things, he had explained me some things and there are also the sott podcasts (those regarding channeling and exorcism), this shadows can attach to personalities that have something in common, assuming that she may be in deep emotional breakdown due to her family health issues, If smoking was giving her some calm, and she was suppressing it, I am not surprised that she lied to you.

My sister's boyfriend it is in a pretty similar situation, her father died from cancer and he used to smoke, he had quit at the beginning of this year, my sister treat him similar like yourself, she had told me that she is not pressuring him, although she wanted to put him on diet because his belly is growing now that he is eating more since he is not smoking.

Pressure comes from every direction. It is not necessarily direct.
 
Menna said:
Anart. This was my frist relationship at 25 years old. Also my first sexual experience. I went into this relationship wanting to get to know her and to honor, respect and make her happy. She said she didnt know a relationship could be like this that I make her very happy that she didnt know she could be this happy.

That doesn't negate what I said. Menna, have you forgotten that you lie to yourself every day in pretty much everything? It can be no other way. You wanted something, so you did what needed to be done to get it, then you got it and the chemicals began to wear off and now the shine has worn thin. It's the oldest story in the world and you are not different from everyone else.


m said:
I took her for her word in the beginning and then she lied and said she would quit in april. Then she said she wants to quit for herself and didnt want to hide it from me. She said she quit June 1st. I said I have to give you credit I think its great that you want to be healthy it shows that you want the best for yourself and us. Thats the real reason why I didnt want her to smoke.

Yes, you've explained that previously and - for the record - smoking IS healthy if the person is smoking pure tobacco. Do some research - actually it looks like some links have been provided for you, so that's good.

m said:
I never said anything about the smell or taste when I kissed her bc if cigarettes werent bad for you then I wouldn't care.

They aren't - do some research. I thought it wasn't really about the cigarettes, but that she lied to you?

m said:
But we both want children a family and I want to be with my girlfrined/wife for as long as possible.

Hopefully you've rethought the children thing, considering that you don't even accept this woman for who she is?

m said:
Her grandma died of cancer her mother currently is struggling with cancer. Smoking causes cancer.

Nope - do some research.

m said:
Now she is hidding it or was hidding it from me. She said its one cig at night but I have tasted it and smelled it on her at other times during the day. Another lie. Im not saying she is right and I am wrong I am presenting the facts. When I got involved with her I said to myslef it is unreasonable to meet someone at 25 years old and expect them to rid themselves of their habbits right away. So I didnt push let her do it herself. She couldn't. Now its time for me to make a decision this coupled with a few others things that have happened. This is the only women outside of family that I have cared about and given her current family situation and the facts that I do love her for who she is thats why I am still with her but at the same time I have to be happy living with someone and being with that someone. You can still love someone for who they are and not be with them. I also made the decision to go out with someone who smoked and said they would quit so I took that risk I know this. I am just alitte unsure and confused right now. Looking for answers.

Bud - She said she hid it from me because she doesnt want me to be ashamed of her. I told her im not ashamed as I know how stressed she is givin the situation but dissapointed that she hid it from me as I thought we were closer than that.

I think you've tried to mold this woman into a mirror of yourself because of narcissism and the best thing that could happen to both of you is ending the relationship so she can find someone who actually accepts her, warts and all, and you can find someone who lives up to the lies you are telling yourself.

I realize that is harsh, but you have repeatedly said on this forum that you want the truth and want to do 4th Way Work - well - here is your opportunity.
 
It's not about the cigs I was saying I didn't complain about taste or smell just to give more evidence that I didn't push/didn't nag her let her quit on her terms...even after the lies in April she quit in June and I was forgiving as I know it is hard and respected her for wanting to do it for herself and saying to me I hid it from past boyfriend I don't want to hide it from you with the new situation that was obviously said for self preservation to save face. Now to consciously walk into a store buy a pack and hide it then when I'm in her car to push my hand away twice. Then to sit there for a few seconds thinking I didn't see it and then I said "are you going to smoke what's in there." she says "what do you mean". At that point it's not about the cigs at all.

The chemical romance effect wore off in march. I've been trying to get to know her not mold her. In a relationship I believe u do have to love someone fOr who they are but if they do things that you don't like you should tell them. External consideration for me is telling someone the truth or how I feel respectfully.

I don't WANT to break up with her but at the same time I am unsure. That's where I stand right now I am unsure. There have been times when her words don't match her actions and other times when her actions don't match her words this smoking example isn't the only one but this is the first time that she has deliberately hid something from me...because of this I am now unsure and questioning things. I know people can be wishy washy with what they say and do but to me this is different then saying one thing and doing another.

Can't I take time explore myself and the situation objectively and try and come back to the relationship with love. Can't that be 4th way work? Do I have to break up to do it? Nothing is too harsh if it's the truth.

I can't deny that I too lie to myself but I hold myself to a different standard ina relationship I guess it is unfair to hold my partner to my standards I think that is what I'm doing. Sort of like expecting a certain level of something

Anart in your opinion if someone can deliberately hide something then physically push their partners hand away and then when questioned deny it. Do you think that spills over to other things and areas. Is it a sign of an untrustworthy person? Or things to come Or am I reading into it too much?
 
Menna said:
...
Now to consciously walk into a store buy a pack and hide it then when I'm in her car to push my hand away twice. Then to sit there for a few seconds thinking I didn't see it and then I said "are you going to smoke what's in there." she says "what do you mean". At that point it's not about the cigs at all.

No, at that point it's about your role in creating a situation where someone felt they had to hide something from you.

You can focus on the other person's behaviour all you want, but how will that advance you? You are here to develop yourself, not someone else.

I know this is hard. If it were easy, we wouldn't need each other to point out our pathological tendencies and to support us as we try to make changes for which we have no manual nor experience.

Gonzo
 
menna said:
I don't WANT to break up with her but at the same time I am unsure. That's where I stand right now I am unsure. There have been times when her words don't match her actions and other times when her actions don't match her words this smoking example isn't the only one but this is the first time that she has deliberately hid something from me...because of this I am now unsure and questioning things. I know people can be wishy washy with what they say and do but to me this is different then saying one thing and doing another.

Nobody is perfect.

What I see is that you have built up an image of how she should be like, ignoring who she actually is as a person or over-riding it with your own personal desires.

Clearly she tried to make some compromises just to please you but it is hard to live up to an illusionary image. It is inevitable that lies will follow.

In this situation, I feel sorry for the girl in question because she is about to have her heart broken either way. If you decide to dump her that'll break her heart if she cares about you, if not, then she will struggle with this compromise between herself and what you want.

On a separate note, I can't believe you got all up in her face about smoking given the research done here, have you not been reading SOTT? Also free will is something to consider.

This is a tough situation for all involved. It can be possible that you are actually in love with an image of yourself and not the actual person given how you have treated her and what you demand from her - all to please you. Self-gratification comes to mind but as I understand it this is something normal when it comes to relationships.

Maybe you can start to actually get to know who you really are with and not the illusion of the person. This might mean leaving your standards and illusions and judgemental attitude at the door and going forward with an open, caring and compassionate side that places no demands and demands nothing in return. Isn't love meant to be something like that? I might be wrong.
 
Since you asked, I don't think you're making too much out of the fact that her actions aren't matching her words. That is something that no one should ignore. If you ignore that, it will end in suffering because it's one of the biggest signs we have of what is really going on in another person. You really, really, cannot ignore such a thing.

If the only reasons you can come up with for not breaking up with her are her mother's illness and the 'idea' of being with her (meaning the illusion) then you are buying into a lie. There is only one way for that to end.

If she truly loved you and you truly loved her there would be no room for actions not matching words or hiding things from you - that's not how real love works.

I know it's difficult, but maybe you could spend some time really trying to figure out why you want to stay with her - and see if you can separate out the wishful thinking "how it should be" from the reality and where you really stand with it. Really, at the end of the day, what matters is your own behavior and motivations and whether or not you can read the signs as they are and act in a way that is in favor of your own destiny and doesn't promote, or passively buy into, a lie.
 
How was I all up in her face? By telling her when I first found out (the same time she told me she was gonna quit) that I didn't like it. Then she says she wants to quit for herself not hide it from me. I say ok I respect that. Then I find out she didn't quit for herself and is hiding it from me. When I found out I said "do you want to smoke what's in there?" Ask her a question to point out I know. In the time that we have been together I have NEVER been up in her face or yelled at her. She has yelled and said hurtfulthings to me in our relationship. She has been all up in my face before. I know things don't always run smoothly and to yell and get angry doesn't help.

I am seeing now that I have high standards or expectations about the character of the person that says they love me. I hold intamit love to a highe standard. I don't want to change her what I want is for her to not hide things from me or lie to me. It's hurtful and I believe troublesome. If she said to me ya know what Dave I'm going to smoke. I wouldn't break up with her bc she smokes. This is what I mean by saying it's not about the smoking
 
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