Question and feedback - unusual experience

[anart]

She has yelled and said hurtfulthings to me in our relationship. She has been all up in my face before.

That's a really bad sign as well. I don't think your expectations of behavior in a relationship are too high - but perhaps you were expecting her to be someone she isn't and you deserve someone who can treat you the way you treat them?

 

[Menna]

Is there anyway it can improve...I mean she said her past relationships weren't good so maybe she is just use to that and that's how she got her point across before and now with me it's hard to not project anger when use to doing that...Wishful thinking?

 

[Beau]

I am seeing now that I have high standards or expectations about the character of the person that says they love me. I hold intamit love to a highe standard. I don't want to change her what I want is for her to not hide things from me or lie to me. It's hurtful and I believe troublesome. If she said to me ya know what Dave I'm going to smoke. I wouldn't break up with her bc she smokes. This is what I mean by saying it's not about the smoking

The thing is Menna, she is probably picking up on your feelings towards smoking and that, IMO, is part of the reason why she is hiding it from you. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get from everything you've written. I'm not trying to excuse the behavior, just trying to say that her motivations were probably related to trying to please you. People do all kinds of things to keep their food, what you are seeing is her attempts to keep her smoking habit while still involved with you. I'm wondering, have you ever sat down and actually TOLD her that you don't care about her smoking? It looks to me like despite what you say here, her impression is that it's something you don't like, hence the hiding and not being honest about it.

 

[luke wilson]

How was I all up in her face? By telling her when I first found out (the same time she told me she was gonna quit) that I didn't like it. Then she says she wants to quit for herself not hide it from me. I say ok I respect that. Then I find out she didn't quit for herself and is hiding it from me. When I found out I said "do you want to smoke what's in there?" Ask her a question to point out I know. In the time that we have been together I have NEVER been up in her face or yelled at her. She has yelled and said hurtfulthings to me in our relationship. She has been all up in my face before. I know things don't always run smoothly and to yell and get angry doesn't help.

I am seeing now that I have high standards or expectations about the character of the person that says they love me. I hold intamit love to a highe standard. I don't want to change her what I want is for her to not hide things from me or lie to me. It's hurtful and I believe troublesome. If she said to me ya know what Dave I'm going to smoke. I wouldn't break up with her bc she smokes. This is what I mean by saying it's not about the smoking

Menna,

It's hard I understand but I think you have to acknowledge you might have been placing demands.. You said it yourself, you have high standards and you expect high standards. You don't have to yell or explicitly say this things for the other person to pick it up. They can pick it up from your body language and what you imply. (Lying usually means there is no trust, why is there no trust? - a question to be explored)

The truth of the fact of the matter, is that if you want to be in a relationship and not get caught up in this sort of dynamics then you have to surrender your standards and demands. You have to see the other person for who they are - really step out of yourself and what you expect back in return interms of self-gratification. There will be good in there and some bad aswell. NOBODY IS PERFECT. What matters is if you truly love what you see and if it is compatible with who you are.

You have to take some responsibility. You are placing all the blame on her like you are the victim here. You are relinquishing yourself of all blame, except the sympathetic I was lied/deceived one which is obviously a lie in this situation since you have been using her all this time to meet your needs and now that you feel you are done with her you want to make a clean and justified break without even acknowledging the part that you have played. This is lying to yourself...

In short am just trying to say that you also have to take some responsibility for this situation as an accomplice and not just a victim. That is how I see it and whatever lesson i've learnt is that having expectations beforehand can result in chaos down the line when there is a mismatch with reality. Instead what is required is vigilance in the now interms of seeing the person with as little as possible self-motivated interests on your part which act as blinders... Anyways, life is lessons and this is just another lesson.

It can just be you are not right for each other but you have to admit, relationships in this world are a minefield of disasters just like this... So don't feel too down on yourself! I have to confess menna, I have written based on what I have learnt about friendships, not sexual relationships as I have never had one, so it might not apply. Just think about it...

 

[Menna]

She hid it bc she told everyone she quit in June. Now if she was to show that she smokes then people would know she didn't quit I would know she didn't quit so she would of lied about the quiting. So she hid it so I wouldn't be ashamed that she lied about quiting.

And that's the thing I am starting to feel like she wants what she wants and I fit into what she wants. But if she wants to do something and knows it's not favorable to me then she will sneak or try and make it that she has both. That's why the yelling, crying and saying certain things that aren't so nice.

I am thinking maybe no one has pointed out this behavior to her I have been and if I do that more. Maybe she will realize...Wishful thinking?

 

[Mrs. Peel]

She hid it bc she told everyone she quit in June. Now if she was to show that she smokes then people would know she didn't quit I would know she didn't quit so she would of lied about the quiting. So she hid it so I wouldn't be ashamed that she lied about quiting.

And that's the thing I am starting to feel like she wants what she wants and I fit into what she wants. But if she wants to do something and knows it's not favorable to me then she will sneak or try and make it that she has both. That's why the yelling, crying and saying certain things that aren't so nice.

I am thinking maybe no one has pointed out this behavior to her I have been and if I do that more. Maybe she will realize...Wishful thinking?

I'd say so. You are grasping at straws to stay in the relationship. She's already exhibited enough negative behaviors (lying, yelling, etc.) Do you REALLY think that's gonna change just because you "point it out to her"? If anything she may become defensive. In my experience, most people don't take that kind of "advice" really well...

 

[anart]

Is there anyway it can improve...I mean she said her past relationships weren't good so maybe she is just use to that and that's how she got her point across before and now with me it's hard to not project anger when use to doing that...Wishful thinking?

Well, I asked that very same question about my own relationship, almost 9 years ago now, of a woman I had just met named Laura. I really wanted to hold onto an incredibly unhealthy relationship because I didn't know any better and could only wishfully think. All Laura said to me was that what really mattered is who she is now - you can't build your life around who someone might some day be, especially when there are so many signs that they're unhealthy for you right now.

I realized she was right and that even if this person was someday going to be 'healthy', she wasn't now and my staying there would probably ensure that she never changed at all, if she was even capable of it.

So - I think the important thing for you is to really discern the truth of the situation right now and act on that in the best way you can.

 

[Menna]

Luke how am I using her to meet my needs? I have my standards based off how I treat others. I give respect and would like to get it back. I told her how I felt about smoking left it up to her. Even if I told her I loved smoking she would have hid it bc she said on her own accord that she quit she hid it bc she went back to smoking and that means she couldn't stick to what she promised and said. That's what she ment by ashamed. Ashamed that she couldn't stick to it. It's her not wanting anyone including me to know. I though I was different to her than everyone else.

I am not looking for sympathy I am looking for objectivity. I am well aware that I got into a relationship with someone that said they would quit. So there is a change there. But I didn't get into a relationship knowing someone would hide, lie and go back on their word especially a year into a relationship where we see eachother on average 5-6 days out of the week.

Everyone could say I'm wrong ok great I will read what others say but I am responding to what others sat so that it is clear what has happened and what did happen

 

[luke wilson]

Luke how am I using her to meet my needs? I have my standards based off how I treat others.

Menna but this is who/what we are(by default)... The challenge is to see it for what it is so that we can change it. There is that famous passage - First initiation, I forget the link but it is here somewhere.

On a separate note, this is a wild guess but from what I am gathering from what you write, you aren't doing much work on the side interms of informing yourself of our reality - includes reading SOTT and the recommended books - to get an idea of objective reality. Your lack of knowledge in the smoking department(given how loudly SOTT shouts about it) is a RED SIGN given that a story has been on SOTT on the main page for like the past week titled "First They Came for the Smokers... And I said Nothing Because I Was Not a Smoker" and you seem to have completely missed it.

 

[anart]

Luke how am I using her to meet my needs? I have my standards based off how I treat others.

Menna but this is who/what we are(by default)... The challenge is to see it for what it is so that we can change it. There is that famous passage - First initiation, I forget the link but it is here somewhere.

On a separate note, this is a wild guess but from what I am gathering from what you write, you aren't doing much work on the side interms of informing yourself of our reality - includes reading SOTT and the recommended books - to get an idea of objective reality. Your lack of knowledge in the smoking department(given how loudly SOTT shouts about it) is a RED SIGN given that a story has been on SOTT on the main page for like the past week titled "First They Came for the Smokers... And I said Nothing Because I Was Not a Smoker" and you seem to have completely missed it.

luke, I think Menna has enough to work on at the moment. Timing is everything and you're beginning to come across as unnecessarily harsh and not very helpful.

 

[luke wilson]

Luke how am I using her to meet my needs? I have my standards based off how I treat others.

Menna but this is who/what we are(by default)... The challenge is to see it for what it is so that we can change it. There is that famous passage - First initiation, I forget the link but it is here somewhere.

On a separate note, this is a wild guess but from what I am gathering from what you write, you aren't doing much work on the side interms of informing yourself of our reality - includes reading SOTT and the recommended books - to get an idea of objective reality. Your lack of knowledge in the smoking department(given how loudly SOTT shouts about it) is a RED SIGN given that a story has been on SOTT on the main page for like the past week titled "First They Came for the Smokers... And I said Nothing Because I Was Not a Smoker" and you seem to have completely missed it.

luke, I think Menna has enough to work on at the moment. Timing is everything and you're beginning to come across as unnecessarily harsh and not very helpful.

I was just stating it since it is important to keep up with what is going on... No harshness intended menna. I understand this situations can be very emotionally turbulent...! I have never been in a relationship but I have had friendships end badly and I also had my lessons to learn...!

Menna, I am just trying to be helpful to you. Sorry if I came across harshly.

 

[Joe]

I never made her feel like she has to hide it from me thats the thing. I told her how I felt about it from day one she continued to smoke for 8 months I didnt say another word after my first response. I left it up to her. She lied about quiting in month 6 and then said I want to do it for my self and I dont want to hide it from you. I said ok I respect that. I let her do her thing and she "quit" June 1st. and now she is hiding from me. Never put pressure on her, never nagged her. This isnt the point but feel like I have to defend myslef

Obviously you did make her feel like she has to hide it from you because she is hiding it from you. A little logic goes a long way. For some people smoking tobacco is actually beneficial in terms of stress reduction and ability to think clearer. The only problem being that standard cigarettes are loaded with other toxins that are bad for everyone's health. If you genuinely want to support her at this difficult time in her life, and she instinctively smokes because she derives benefits from it, then maybe you need to make it very clear to her that you don't, in any way, disapprove of her smoking and maybe you could encourage her to smoke natural tobacco. Of course, that's if your own prejudices aren't more important than what makes her happy, which isn't the case in many relationships.

 

[Menna]

"So - I think the important thing for you is to really discern the truth of the situation right now and act on that in the best way you can."

The truth is that I am seeing more and more of her personality/character some things I like and other things I don't like I believe this latest thing hit me hard. I am not saying I am high and mighty If I look back and as I think about it now I gave her the benifit of the doubt and made excuses for her at times wishful thinking did enter into my decisions. If she wants to hide things from her partner so that everyone is happy then fine but I have to decide wether or not I want to be that partner.

I am leaning twards the fact that this wont work. But at the same time I care about her and her well being. There is also apart of me that says, if I can just adjust alittle or see things differently then maybe it can work. Her family situation does weigh heavily into my decision and the fact that I made a choice to enter into a relationship with her and I wont exit it untill I am 100% that it wont work. I am not there yet.

The responses have made me think more objectivly and that there is room for improvement on my part. This is what I mean when I say I am not 100% that it wont work. If I can see that I have room for improvement then I will work on that. Thank you for the advice, mirroring ect.

 

[Menna]

Yes Perceval you are right. I told her how I felt and in telling her how I felt she new that I didnt think it was great so she would then know that if my feelings are negative twards cigs then I have a negative opinion about cigs. I would not break up with anyone bc they smoke but I will tell everyone who asks how I feel about it.

I was just tryng to tell everyone on here that I told her how I felt about it in the begininng and left it up to her.

During that time I wanted to be supportive i remember we where out in NYC for St. Partricks day in March and I said Is there anything I can do to help. Her response to this was no I am going to stop I want to be beautiful for a long time you have done enough for me.

Even after she quit in june she told me thank you for not pushing. I handled the smoking situation wrong.

 

[Joe]

I would not break up with anyone bc they smoke but I will tell everyone who asks how I feel about it.

Well, the thing about smoking is that it is kind of pointless to 'feel' something about it and then tell people what that feeling is, because that usually means you're repeating propaganda. It's much more helpful to do some of your own unbiased research and then tell people what conclusions you have reached based on hard data.