Questions regarding food chains and liberation of plants and animals

[Inti]

Thankyou very much for your reply, Anart, you appear to try to explain things at my level of understanding which I really appreciate. Thanks for your words on responsibility and awareness, I will keep reading and asking questions!

Foofighter:

them being in the aquarium in the first place is anything but natural

. I think this is the key point here. I don't think you can know what is best for them in any given environment. These turtles have been prevented from determining their own lives and are now cut off from many of the external beings that would have been a part of their life and learning and now you are seemingly trying to determine their needs.

 

[foofighter]

I think this is the key point here. I don't think you can know what is best for them in any given environment. These turtles have been prevented from determining their own lives and are now cut off from many of the external beings that would have been a part of their life and learning and now you are seemingly trying to determine their needs.

But the thing is that this is *not* the key point, because the turtles *are there* (if it was up to me they wouldn't be in the first place, but they are), and so, regardless of how I feel about it, I have to deal with the situation somehow. They are in the aquarium, and so I have no choice but to determine how to best fill their needs: dry food or live food (as one thing to consider). We also have 11 cats in the house, and we have to somehow determine how to best fill their needs. How I feel about them being there in the first place is irrelevant, because that would not be to consider the situation as it is, but as I would "want" it to be.

To me the key point is to consider the world as it is, to try to understand why it is as it is, and make the best of it while not trying to judge it for what it is. As has already been pointed out, trying to become STO candidates is all we can ever hope for anyway.

 

[Inti]

Quoting foofighter:

the turtles *are there* (if it was up to me they wouldn't be in the first place, but they are), and so, regardless of how I feel about it, I have to deal with the situation somehow.

I think this is true: you have to face the situation as it is, you say.

They are in the aquarium, and so I have no choice but to determine how to best fill their needs

I don't think that's true, I think you have the choice to not determine their needs. However, I do not know which would be the correct choice to make. This is a common issue and concern with regards to the state of the natural world. Quite often the measures taken to remedy a situation (for example, humans introducing another species to parasitise/prey on/control another introduced species that has become a "pest") have sometimes seemed misguided and disastrous. It seems to me that humans sometimes introduce even greater problems by trying to solve/control something they do not understand.
I am hoping someone else may join in this discussion because at my current state of awareness, I feel I am incapable of addressing your points adequately. As to your particular situation, I don't know the full details and I feel unqualified to judge it.

 

[anart]

I am hoping someone else may join in this discussion because at my current state of awareness, I feel I am incapable of addressing your points adequately. As to your particular situation, I don't know the full details and I feel unqualified to judge it.

I must admit, Foofighter, that I'm having trouble following your point myself. It seems you're putting quite a bit of energy into trying to explain that there is no reason to make attempts to lesson one's detrimental impact on 2D beings, where possible - as if 'that's just how it is, so just do what you do'.

I think that I must be missing your point, however, since this doesn't seem like something you would say - so perhaps instead of building up an argument using a hypothetical (or not) situation, you could just try stating it more plainly?

 

[foofighter]

I must admit, Foofighter, that I'm having trouble following your point myself. It seems you're putting quite a bit of energy into trying to explain that there is no reason to make attempts to lesson one's detrimental impact on 2D beings, where possible - as if 'that's just how it is, so just do what you do'.

Alright, fair enough. The point is (I think, I might be wrong on this of course), that the situation being what it is, as in my case, the turtles are there and that's just how it is, I have to choose how to relate to it. I could dump them in the nearest lake, of course. That's one option. But I'm not sure that would be in their best interest, having been bred from the beginning in captivity. So what I am trying to do is to on the one hand giving them as best an environment as I can (having live food is one part of that), and on the other, it also provides a good opportunity for the other younger members of the family to learn to take responsibility in keeping them, learning about them, and doing as much as possible for them. So, they are also fulfilling another selfish purpose, in that sense. But I don't know.

In short, I guess, yes we should try to lessen our detrimental impact on 2D beings, but at the same time try to make the best of the situation given that it is what it is. But I'm definitely open to suggestions on how to handle it in other, possibly better ways.

 

[PepperFritz]

Inti:

You may find the following thread interesting to read (and maybe contribute to), for the discussion about having second-density animals in our lives as "pets":

Free Will and how not to violate it (realising your violating it)

 

[Inti]

Foofighter, I agree it is a difficult situation! I cannot suggest anything because I do not know enough. I can see how, in your situation, dumping them in the lake, say, would seem heartless; however maybe there is some value in considering your position here... Perhaps to be conscious of whether or not you actually can decide what is best for another in any given situation and to recognise that determining what is best, even with the best of intentions, may be a violation of self-determination.

Just seen your post PepperFritz, thankyou! It might have been helpful to read that before I started all this thread! I read some parts of it, very useful for seeing how complicated allowing freewill can get! Foofighter, you might find it interesting too if you haven't read it already.

 

[webglider]

But the ever-increasing domestication and coercion of living beings to human desires strikes me as horrific. I see that I have choices I can make that will lessen my infringement on the free will or self-determination of others. As I can see that, I feel a need to act that...doing otherwise strikes me as somewhat sick.

I have very similar feelings concerning the "coercion of living beings to human desires" that you express. The cruelty of how so many animals are raised for food makes me ill when I think about it. Yet when I found out that my daughter is a type O and needs red meat, I went out and bought some for her.

The only way that I can deal with any of this is to try to make sure that the animals that are raised for their meat are treated well which is why I belong to a food coop that shares these values. I also know a woman who raises sheep, and all of her ewes have names, and are treated very well. Her roof may leak, but the sheep are warm and cozy in their barn, and have daily access to exercise in the fields.

Still, I was there when one of the male lambs was sold to a family who was going to slaughter it. It really resisted being loaded into the truck, but it was and off it went.

It's not just animals that are slaves. People are increasingly enslaving each other - I am being quite literal here - people are trafficked as slaves, and if they're not trafficked, they are becoming slaves by default due to loss of jobs, lower pay, longer hours, and poor working conditions.

My mind can only hold these thoughts for so long before I have to think of something else or I'll go mad with sorrow.

I think that the only way out of this is to live as consciously as possible and to use one's gifts in a way that will bring benefits to others as well as to oneself. It's important to keep oneself in the equation when thinking of others.

 

[PepperFritz]

The only way that I can deal with any of this is to try to make sure that the animals that are raised for their meat are treated well which is why I belong to a food coop that shares these values. I also know a woman who raises sheep, and all of her ewes have names, and are treated very well. Her roof may leak, but the sheep are warm and cozy in their barn, and have daily access to exercise in the fields.

Nonetheless, it's important to recognize the self-calming aspects of one's efforts in this area. After all, were black slaves who were treated well by their owners any less enslaved than those who were treated cruelly? Do those abducted by alien entities feel any less violated by those that carry out their procedures with a degree of "kindness" than those who are cold and impersonal?

I do not say that in order to imply that such efforts are "pointless" and shouldn't be made, or are not well intentioned. On the contrary. I'm just emphasizing that we have to resist the temptation to "buffer" how we view our participation in the inescapable conditions of third-density STS life. If our aim is to see our reality with clear, unflinching objectivity, with eyes "wide open", we have to look full-on at the ugly reality of it: We enslave 2nd-density creatures in order to live, and cannot escape that condition.

 

[PepperFritz]

Inti:

I thought you might be interested in the following excerpts from the "Ra" material (which the C's have identified as a kind of "predecessor" to the Cassiopaean material, though of a lesser degree of "accuracy"). These excerpts suggest that the interaction between humans and certain second-density beings (namely, animals and trees) can play a positive role in such beings "graduating" to third density....

Questioner: Then how does the second density progress to the third?

Ra: I am Ra. The second density strives towards the third density which is the density of self-consciousness or self-awareness. The striving takes place through the higher second-density forms who are invested by third-density beings with an identity to the extent that they become self-aware mind/body complexes, thus becoming mind/body/spirit complexes and entering third density, the first density of consciousness of spirit.

Questioner: After going over this morning’s work, I thought it might be helpful to fill in a few things. You said that the second density strives towards the third density which is the density of self-consciousness, or self-awareness. The striving takes place through higher second-density forms being invested by third-density beings. Could you explain what you mean by this?

Ra: I am Ra. Much as you would put on a vestment, so do your third-density beings invest or clothe some second-density beings with self-awareness. This is often done through the opportunity of what you call pets. It has also been done by various other means of investiture. These include many so-called religious practice complexes which personify and send love to various natural second-density beings in their group form.

Questioner: When this Earth was second-density, how did the second-density beings on it become so invested?

Ra: I am Ra. There was not this type of investment as spoken but the simple third-density investment which is the line of spiraling light calling distortion upward from density to density. The process takes longer when there is no investment made by incarnate third-density beings.

Questioner: Let’s take the point at which an individualized entity of second density is ready for transition to third. Is this second-density being what we would call animal?

Ra: I am Ra. There are three types of second-density entities which become, shall we say, enspirited. The first is the animal. This is the most predominant. The second is the vegetable, most especially that which you call, sound vibration complex, “tree.” These entities are capable of giving and receiving enough love to become individualized. The third is mineral. Occasionally a certain location/place, as you may call it, becomes energized to individuality through the love it receives and gives in relationship to a third-density entity which is in relationship to it. This is the least common transition.

Source: Law of One, Densities

 

[Inti]

Thankyou for your comments webglider.

It's not just animals that are slaves. People are increasingly enslaving each other - I am being quite literal here - people are trafficked as slaves, and if they're not trafficked, they are becoming slaves by default due to loss of jobs, lower pay, longer hours, and poor working conditions.

I agree and it's painful to watch and painful to see people just accepting it and I include myself in that. I think most of us, if not all, are slaves to greater or lesser extents. It seems to me it is becoming an increasingly difficult battle to fight.
I am curious about the blood-type argument. I know little about it, so cannot really contribute. I am type O though and have been vegetarian for over 20 years and feel very fit and healthy. However, I am not sure whether I would argue that enslavement/cruelty/domestication of animals is any worse than that of plants or minerals...if they are more aware perhaps it is, but I do not know.
Thankyou very much for your comments and the Ra material excerpts, PepperFritz. I would like to read the Ra material at some point, but at the moment I have a huge pile of reading to do and building up the pile even higher without being able to keep pace might be silly! Interesting what Ra says. I happen to feel fondness for many 2D beings and I'm sure many others do too so worth considering what effects those feelings may have.

 

[Inti]

Oh, I found your comment below interesting, PepperFritz.

Nonetheless, it's important to recognize the self-calming aspects of one's efforts in this area. After all, were black slaves who were treated well by their owners any less enslaved than those who were treated cruelly? Do those abducted by alien entities feel any less violated by those that carry out their procedures with a degree of "kindness" than those who are cold and impersonal?

I was thinking that if the "aliens" or whatever they may be were to ask me what I would prefer: a life of being condemned to concrete boxes continually doing things that appeared mind-numbingly dull or a life full of interaction with many other beings and a much fuller external life where I could see the wonders of the world, I imagine I would choose the latter. It has even occurred to me that this may have actually happened. However, it also strikes me that perhaps leading a fuller or more comfortable life may mask the reality of enslavement more convincingly. It also occurs to me that there appears to be no relationship, that I can see, between a rich external life and a rich internal one. After all, some have had revelations whilst in the most horrific conditions, yet others have had none. Similarly, some seem to wake up in a rich diverse life while others remain so deeply asleep.