Raw foods

[wanderer33]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

Cholas, I had not intention of convincing anyone else to change their diet. Nor do I consider what I said to have anything to do with 'self-importance'.
We translate things as we do. I was only giving my own reasons for why I do what I do. You can do and think as you wish, if that that adds some clarity to my statements. I can only work on me, not others. :) You asked me regarding Candida and I replied. Never had that condition and in my experience (the only one I have) I have only known women to have it, even if, as you say, men suffer from the condition likewise. Does that make sense?

Daniel, no disrespect intended.

BTW, the cookbook is a good one. ;)

Gertrude, thanks for the view. I believe I'm healthy as a result of my diet. I know a girl who is a first class iron woman and surfer who has more strength and stamina than men twice her age. She has always been a strict vegetarian by choice from a young age. The idea that one needs to eat meat for strength and stamina is a fallacy in her case.

 

[Vulcan59]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

Hi wanderer33,

Have you read the article below on vegetarians? :)

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/203114-Vegetarians-Have-Smaller-Brains

 

[mcb]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

...
Have you read the article below on vegetarians? :)

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/203114-Vegetarians-Have-Smaller-Brains

It has been a long time since I was a vegan, but I do remember that it was necessary to supplement with B-12. I believe that there were also cautions about young children needing animal products, which would fit with the statement from the article "Without them [long-chain, fatty acids] we cannot develop normally."

I am concerned, though, that the author of the article might not be taking into the account the evolution of the human gut, which may have become shorter as we made the transition to cooked food. I was a Seventh-day Adventist at one time and I have known many healthy vegetarians, many of whom have eaten that way all of their lives and I have encountered smaller numbers of such vegans. It didn't work for me but it seems to work for lots of people. You can't just arbitrarily cut things out of your diet, though. As with anything, you have to know what you are doing.

 

[Renaissance]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

I had been a vegetarian for a couple of years when I was a child as that was the diet that my mother was following, which didn't last. I experimented with it again when I was in college and had some interesting results. The greatest change was in my view towards others in what they ate. I noticed that I became increasingly more judgmental about 'meat eaters' and thankfully I was doing the Work at this point and noticed the change. So I went back to eating meat and killed the obsession. What I thought was interesting was that I wasn't doing the vegetarian diet for so called 'moral' reasons or even because I was attached to it being a healthier lifestyle. It was mostly an experiment. So this has made me wonder if the type of self importance that is very common in vegetarians (and vegans) has some origin in the diet itself and the ideological self-important stuff is really just secondary and is just there to fill in the gaps so to speak.

Wanderer, I would also suggest reading through the candida info - it's definitely not a woman's only issue and I'm sure you know plenty of men (maybe even yourself) who have it but just don't know they have it. There's some great threads on the candida epidemic if you have a look.

 

[Gimpy]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

In the early part of the CASS material, Laura performed a hypno session with a lady who has an experience of being an insect
and eating children. I think it becomes explained that we are a sort of farm for things that want to eat us. In a way I think there is a karma lesson here, a balancing act. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.... it cannot be argued that the slaughterhouse society does not contribute to the suffering of the world. It does.

Sure it does. So does eating plants. Have you read this article?: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/203339-Plants-Are-Actively-Intelligent-What-Does-This-Mean-For-Vegetarians-

I was concerned about contracting type 2 diabetes, and went vegetarian for a few months. It put me in the hospital, facing invasive tests. Without meat to keep the bile flowing from my liver, it grew congested, which led to spasms of the common bile duct. This was quite painful, and a good lesson that one diet does not fit all. I'm blood type O, and I need to eat meat, period. Since then its been a struggle to stay on the Ultra Simple diet, but I'm working at it. :)

I was raised understanding the realities of farm life, and it made perfect (if horrific) sense that we are food for 4D STS beings. My parents never gave me the impression that human beings were ever the top of the food chain: without hearth and home, we're lower than most animals, because we've lost the knowledge on how to survive with nothing to hand. If a human being is dumb enough to wander around in the wilderness and runs across a bear or other large predator, the human isn't going to win. That is just reality.

I don't think it matters so much what a person eats (provided they are healthy to begin with) as much as what is said and done and worked for. Perhaps they are all linked together by the souls aim? That's just my thinking on it, fwiw.

 

[wanderer33]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

Vulcan, the article suggests that B 12 is essential in a good diet. I agree. A balanced vegetarian diet (as is in the cookbook) can include dairy products which are a good source of B 12. I do eat milk curd and cheese and drink milk. Vegetarianism is definitely a touchy point among meat eaters and tends to bear down on one in a social context. I have no problems with supplementing my diet with dairy products or even fish. For me, fruitarianism has so many positives its hard to ignore. On the opening thread I did qualify fruitarianism by 'mostly'. Most people don't have a balanced diet, they eat far too much meat and processed garbage. I still think a largely fruit diet is healthy.

Gimpy, yes I believe plants are actively intelligent and you can prove this in experiment with a lie detector machine. My view on this is that you need to survive and therefore I take into my body what are considered the lowest forms of life necessary to fulfil the criteria for a healthy diet. That's the best most thoughtful thing I can do.

 

[anart]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

Vulcan, the article suggests that B 12 is essential in a good diet. I agree. A balanced vegetarian diet (as is in the cookbook) can include dairy products which are a good source of B 12. I do eat milk curd and cheese and drink milk. Vegetarianism is definitely a touchy point among meat eaters and tends to bear down on one in a social context. I have no problems with supplementing my diet with dairy products or even fish. For me, fruitarianism has so many positives its hard to ignore. On the opening thread I did qualify fruitarianism by 'mostly'. Most people don't have a balanced diet, they eat far too much meat and processed garbage. I still think a largely fruit diet is healthy.

Gimpy, yes I believe plants are actively intelligent and you can prove this in experiment with a lie detector machine. My view on this is that you need to survive and therefore I take into my body what are considered the lowest forms of life necessary to fulfil the criteria for a healthy diet. That's the best most thoughtful thing I can do.

What's interesting about this is that dairy is terrible for the human body - period. There are a vanishingly rare number of people who can tolerate dairy - it is toxic, inflammatory and all around bad news for the human body. So, supplementing with dairy is not healthy.


For the record, I have been a vegetarian for, oh, 23 years now. My blood type is AB and this type doesn't do well on red meat or chicken. I do eat fish occasionally, having added that to my diet relatively recently for health reasons. I removed dairy from my diet for health reasons also and the results were nothing less than remarkable. The people I love most in the world are all quite enthusiastic carnivores and I think it's great - it keeps them healthy and happy and nothing is more important than that. We are embodied and it is a messy business - no way around that. We are here to accomplish something and to do so, our vehicles must be healthy - so whatever that takes is exactly how it should be.

 

[mcb]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

...
So this has made me wonder if the type of self importance that is very common in vegetarians (and vegans) has some origin in the diet itself and the ideological self-important stuff is really just secondary and is just there to fill in the gaps so to speak.
...

I went through such a phase too, and I don't *think* it has to do with the diet itself. It would seem to me to have to do with having a sense of belonging to the "right" group now. "I've changed and now you can too." I saw that behavior in myself and decided that it needed to stop. It didn't make it any easier that I was with other people that were doing it too. It doesn't have to be about food; it can be about anything.

 

[cholas]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

I think you might be right there Megan. In my experience, being vegan/vegetarian was somehow 'more spiritual' and a large part of the reasoning for my being such was to further this end. I wasn't necessarily listening to my body.

Wanderer, I don't think that anyone here is suggesting that you are trying to tell them what to eat but as anart has mentioned you do, as many of us have, seem very identified with your particular diet. That observation aside, if it works for you, fine. "Who the cap fits..."

I'm also type AB blood and didn't really notice any huge difference, physically, whether I ate meat or not, but as Los pointed out, it also affected my association with others. Again, this leading back to the self-importance issue.

Ironically just tonight I was having a conversation with a friend who is very attached to the "Indian Master" scheme and recently went to visit said 'master'. One of the first questions this so-called 'master' asked of him is 'are you still vegetarian' because, as has already been brought up, it's 'bad karma' to eat meat.

It's truly amazing how we can be misled, not so much based on objectivity or true science of course, but by our own need to be righteous.

 

[jhonny]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.


I am a vegetarian about a year ago and this decision is taken for 2 reasons.
the first because I thought that this could help me to become more spiritual, and now after reading much of the material Cs and after hearing and seeing some opinions, I realize that the spiritual path is very different to physicality.
The second is the abuse to which animals are subjected to consume .... and that is why I am now a vegetarian.
The only meat I've recently started using the fish for their vitamin content.
What I can say is that after I became a vegetarian have been some very positive changes in my body, for example, I suffered from stomach problems and now, of course not just leave the meat was what helped me.
I changed my eating habits but I think another thing that helped me was the water (filtered), fasting I always drink 3 glasses of water (the first with lemon) this was a tip given me by a bioenegetic doctor in Colombia to avoid all digestive problems and it really would recommend it to everyone

 

[Laura]

Food For Thought: Meat-Based Diet Made Us Smarter
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128849908

Are we meat eaters or vegetarians? Part I
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/are-we-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-part-i/

Are we meat eaters or vegetarians? Part II
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/are-we-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-part-ii/

Dairy: 6 reasons you should avoid it at all costs
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/dairy-free-dairy-6-reason_b_558876.html

7 Reasons to Eat More Saturated Fat
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/06/06/saturated-fat/

The Truth About the China Study
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

 

[RyanX]

Re: Any fruitarians or raw food people.

I am a vegetarian about a year ago and this decision is taken for 2 reasons.
the first because I thought that this could help me to become more spiritual, and now after reading much of the material Cs and after hearing and seeing some opinions, I realize that the spiritual path is very different to physicality.
The second is the abuse to which animals are subjected to consume .... and that is why I am now a vegetarian.
The only meat I've recently started using the fish for their vitamin content.
What I can say is that after I became a vegetarian have been some very positive changes in my body, for example, I suffered from stomach problems and now, of course not just leave the meat was what helped me.
I changed my eating habits but I think another thing that helped me was the water (filtered), fasting I always drink 3 glasses of water (the first with lemon) this was a tip given me by a bioenegetic doctor in Colombia to avoid all digestive problems and it really would recommend it to everyone

jhonny,

I tried going on the all vegetarian diet years ago and at first I experienced similar positive results. It encouraged me to keep up the diet. Unfortunately, over time I started to just feel weak and would just crave larger quantities of food. I could tell I didn't have the same stamina I used to have. It ultimately resulted in me switching back to including meat in my diet only this time using quality organic meats instead of the crap processed ones. It made a world of difference and I haven't switched since. In fact I've slowly been adding more and more meat and animal products to my daily diet structure.

You're right, the type of diet you're on has nothing to do with spirituality, but without the RIGHT diet for YOU, your chances of advancing "spiritually" are slim to none - that's why there is so much emphasis here on the elimination diet and finding what foods work for your own unique genetics.

Anyways, who is to say that Animals suffer when they are raised properly and then killed for their meat? In certain organic farms the animals have a very good life and are loved in a certain way by their owners. Some animals who subsist in wild seem like they lead much harder lives. Witness the difference between cats who live indoors verses outdoors. Outdoor cats don't have nearly the same lifespan as indoor cats. I suspect this has a lot to do with stress on the animal. Just some things to consider.

 

[Hildegarda]

I found an interesting study that compares some aspects of higher brain functioning among meat-eaters and ethics-motivated vegetarians and vegans:

_http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0010847

The Brain Functional Networks Associated to Human and Animal Suffering Differ among Omnivores, Vegetarians and Vegans

Abstract:

Empathy and affective appraisals for conspecifics are among the hallmarks of social interaction. Using functional MRI, we hypothesized that vegetarians and vegans, who made their feeding choice for ethical reasons, might show brain responses to conditions of suffering involving humans or animals different from omnivores. We recruited 20 omnivore subjects, 19 vegetarians, and 21 vegans. The groups were matched for sex and age. Brain activation was investigated using fMRI and an event-related design during observation of negative affective pictures of human beings and animals (showing mutilations, murdered people, human/animal threat, tortures, wounds, etc.). Participants saw negative-valence scenes related to humans and animals, alternating with natural landscapes. During human negative valence scenes, compared with omnivores, vegetarians and vegans had an increased recruitment of the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and inferior frontal gyrus (IFG). More critically, during animal negative valence scenes, they had decreased amygdala activation and increased activation of the lingual gyri, the left cuneus, the posterior cingulate cortex and several areas mainly located in the frontal lobes, including the ACC, the IFG and the middle frontal gyrus. Nonetheless, also substantial differences between vegetarians and vegans have been found responding to negative scenes. Vegetarians showed a selective recruitment of the right inferior parietal lobule during human negative scenes, and a prevailing activation of the ACC during animal negative scenes. Conversely, during animal negative scenes an increased activation of the inferior prefrontal cortex was observed in vegans. These results suggest that empathy toward non conspecifics has different neural representation among individuals with different feeding habits, perhaps reflecting different motivational factors and beliefs.

******
Briefly, how I understood the results:

It seems that vegetarians and vegans, while being more empathetic overall, have more empathetic reaction to the suffering of animals rather than humans. They also process those with more cortical involvement (representing self-values, self-awareness, past memories and social behavior) rather than that of amygdala (what would be more of "raw" reaction to fearful or bad things happening).

There are also differences between vegans and vegetarians. Vegetarians reacted to viewing human suffering with activation of brain areas that are responsible for body representation. When it came to the animal pictures, the vegetarians showed more reactions specific to enhanced attention and empathic pain, while vegans do it in a more social-cognition based way, with the possible involvement of mirror-neurons.

Omnivores, on the other hand, react to human suffering with the activation of cortex -- in a same basic way, seemingly, as vegetarians and vegans do for animals.

It all comes down to the basic idea of the study, that social interaction is very much based on being able to relate to those of the same kind, same species. And, it seems that in humans, the omnivores reacts stronger to the suffering of other people rather than the creatures of other species.

The cause and effect are unclear, however. Is relating better to animals a learned behavior as a result of practicing certain ethics in vegans/vegetarians in this experiment, or is it a certain type of brain that predisposes people to such lifestyle choices?

I am also not sure whether it can be applied evolutionarily too far in the past; being able to make a conscious "spiritual" choice not to eat animal flesh is a hallmark of some development of human civilization.

nevertheless, fwiw

 

[Laura]

Very interesting. Reminds me of the fact that I've often observed people with far more sympathy for animals than humans. They'll spend a fortune on a rescued dog and think nothing of the suffering of people in Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, one of these types actually told me that people in Iraq must have "bad karma." But she would never pass a stray dog...

Another of this particular type could weep for days over an abandoned kitten, but when her husband was attacked by her parents, unjustly, she just said "he should have known not to say that..." No empathy for him at all.

Could that mean that people with a lot of empathy for animals (mainly) are like OPs?

 

[D69]

wow that is interesting , I am kind of person that puts animals over humans all the time ! (I mean, I do catch myself on these emotions/reactions)
I meant , I do care about human suffering , but if someone has done something to my dog ... that would lead me to a total uncontrolled outrage.
And here goes a question , is it possible for OP to be aware of being an OP ? (it is possible that I missunderstood something while reading "must-read" stuff like "The Wave")