Relationship Problems: Advice?

[malachi]

A while ago I became increasingly aware of STS influence on myself seemingly everyone I know! I feel like it is a waste of energy to maintain contact with people with a "mechanical" nature that I am working to relieve myself from. In doing so I have largely isolated myself and influenced my partner to do the same. My partner is skeptical to my perceptions which I feel largely to be true, though at times, I reflect In hind sight that maybe she is right and I'm nuts! I also find myself getting offended (self importance) by her programs. My partner has become largely unhappy, crying often, voicing momentary feelings of suicide, defensive anger and often expresses uncertainty if she really wants me to be her partner which Is naturally her right to decide. I can't tell if I've really messed up or if it's the necessary action to change because, I recognize aspects to the "Feminine Vampire" archetype Laura depicts in the "Adventures with Cassiopaea" thread and discovered a program running where she wants to be worshiped which such program is denied my energy and really I can't believe it took me so long to realize, I mean she has stickers of goddesses on her drinking canisters and a few ornaments, she acknowledges this to be true.
I take responsibility for talking about all these things to her rather than with which is recognizably STS program lacking external consideration and yet unsure whether all of the guilt is for good reason or if it's a response stimulus trap from above. I think it would be a good idea to balance out the dark stuff with more positive things in our life and joyful experiences, I have really been focussing on this stuff as my partner would say "obsessively". I want to support her and myself the best way possible.
Do you have any suggestions from personal experiences, useful ways to tackle this situation? Perhaps we can support and share our experiences of such matters on this thread and refine our methods.

P.S. I share a few methods I am doing to maintain well being:
- Eating Paleo/keto always with intermittent fasting a few days p/w
- going to gym a couple days p/w for 30 minutes max
- having saunas a couple days p/w
- EE stretches + breathing approx 3 days p/w whilst Bio energetic breathing 2 days p/w
- sleeping mostly well.

 

[sacriface]

Re: Advice?

Hi malachi,

As far I can tell, it's probably not the most informed opinion ever, nor am I very experienced in these matters,
but what you wrote echoes of some experiences in some relationships between me and some people (friends, family) and through them I could refer to some things you describe.

First thing is that when the perception of ordinary reality goes through a kind of meltdown, and one comes across this new information there is this unstoppable urge to share it. I ended up pushing it on people who didn't want to listen to any of it, which in the end was the violation of their free will.

I too felt that this is "The Truth!" And so the line of thought went along of "How come someone doesn't want to see these things the way I see them, it makes so much sense! Look at this, that and the other" And would never stop bringing this up, talking about it. There was an underlying sense of entitlement that since one has come across this truth, it is his duty to share it no matter what, because it is so important.

But in fact the respect of free will here is of primary importance. And pushing one's opinion on someone will never have the desired effect, anyway. The desiring of a certain effect alone is also something of STS nature. That is revealed when not achieving the desired effect you get offended: self-importance piggybacking your bringing of truth to others around you.

You said your partner offends you with her programs, should this be that way? Would it not rather wake compassion and an inkling to work together to get through them?

You also wrote that you influenced her to isolate from the mechanical environment, despite that she was skeptical regarding your worldview. What kind of 'influence' did you use ? That doesn't sound like reaching an agreement regarding understanding certain things, and choosing together what to do about it.

Then, you jump to a conclusion that she could be the Feminine Vampire, while some things described above sound to me like yourself violating her free will.

In general it seems like knowing this truth you talk about makes you feel in some way privileged over others, could that be the case?

My two cents..

 

[Renaissance]

Re: Advice?

A while ago I became increasingly aware of STS influence on myself seemingly everyone I know!

It can be helpful to remember that we're all STS on this planet and we're usually giving off such influences as much as we receive them. An important part of the Work is to understand our programs so we can minimize the pain we cause to others and ourselves. It's easy to unload on others when really the challenge is our own to work through. I think identifying and really seeing our own faults also makes it easier to understand that others have them too.

I feel like it is a waste of energy to maintain contact with people with a "mechanical" nature that I am working to relieve myself from. In doing so I have largely isolated myself and influenced my partner to do the same.

Like you have found, you'll be pretty isolated if you do this, and that's not the point. You've got to be in the world to learn from it. Have you read much of Gurdjieff's Work? Reading In Search of the Miraculous is a good starting point if you haven't. The Fourth Way approaches development by learning how to consciously navigate the lessons that are presented in front of us rather than to take refuge outside of life. Sometimes this means learning to play a role or developing a "strategic enclosure" as well as practicing external consideration. It really does make things much easier for all involved and it can also help us to work through various lessons.

It's hard to comment on your partner's behavior since many people will respond in similar ways when anyone tries to force a certain way of doing things onto them. The suicidal feelings are concerning though and there may be some other things going on that need professional assistance.

 

[malachi]

Re: Advice?

You said your partner offends you with her programs, should this be that way? Would it not rather wake compassion and an inkling to work together to get through them?

You also wrote that you influenced her to isolate from the mechanical environment, despite that she was skeptical regarding your worldview. What kind of 'influence' did you use ? That doesn't sound like reaching an agreement regarding understanding certain things, and choosing together what to do about it.

My two cents..

It's like the stimulus response mechanisms are triggered. Yes we discuss what we want to overcome and try to be as honest to each other as possible though one of us will slip into unconsciously expending our energy in a negative self serving way stimulating the others retaliation, for instance: We were discussing principals we want to maintain with each other through sensitive areas of dialogue, she was in a soft state and I was feeling a little inhibited in the mental focus spectrum, she very suddenly polarized into the archetypal authoritative worshipped goddess. The transformation was obvious if you know what to look for. It consisted of her sitting cross legged with a seemingly perfectly straight back, chin up, prominent Egyptian style ear rings and would hook me in with eye contact in moments to then gaze into space in the room as to indicate higher worth than myself, not to mention that she has told me she feels insecure to be seen publicly without wearing her princess jewellery which is yet another clue. After the scene played out, she admitted to getting off over manipulating which I sensed but instead of observing calmly and collected, I was responding abruptly and angrily. It was until I realized I had to defuse my anger aka hyper-dimensional food and recalling don Juan's quote that she too softened! It was fascinating to see how the dynamics played off one another:
-" Impeccability is nothing else but the proper use of energy. My statements have no inkling of morality. I've saved energy and that makes me impeccable. To understand this, you have to save enough energy yourself.
Warriors take strategic inventories. They list everything they do. Then they decide which of those things can be changed in order to allow themselves a respite, in terms of expending their energy.
The strategic inventory covers only behavioral patterns that are not essential to our survival and well-being.
In the strategic inventories of warriors, self-importance figures as the activity that consumes the greatest amount of energy, hence, their effort to eradicate it.
One of the first concerns of warriors is to free that energy in order to face the unknown with it. The action of re-channeling that energy is impeccability."

And as for my "influence", she too will say that its good for her to reevaluate people in her life as she has, like most of us have been, "wayyyy too open and giving to people" though I know she is scared because she is reevaluating who she is as well and doubts herself, feeling weird about dis engaging from so many people. She has been influenced by me because we are, despite our battles, very close and I say she has been influenced largely through the act of "free will" because we had since discussed certain persons inviting themselves into our lives but I also need to keep the info to myself rather than verbal diarrhea all over her and others as I do at times, and alternatively share when asked with the right circumstances at play!

Then, you jump to a conclusion that she could be the Feminine Vampire, while some things described above sound to me like yourself violating her free will.

I recognize many attributes of the "Feminine Vampire" in the actions of my partner and feel to degree that she is very much is aware of many tendencies in moments. I'll give a few examples: "doing good deeds" indicates surface expression. An example could be as simple as gifting me a can of tuna as a means to apologies for hostility thought it sounds petty, yet I could feel a sense that if I accept the Tuna I shall also receive her "darkness".

"It may seem incomprehensible that a powerful person could be victimized by a psychic vampire who seems to be completely disempowered. Yet there are few lures more potent for a powerful champion than rescuing a grateful waif in distress. How exciting it is to save someone from the jaws of tragedy, particularly if the recipient is adoring and appreciative! You, the noble champion, journey alone down the desolate nighttime road, when there appears by the wayside a sweet little mist who is weeping in loneliness and alluring despair." ~ Barbara E. Hort's

"In psychological terms, holding up a mirror to a person in whom the vampire archetype is active is also problematical at best. It is at such a moment that the individual can make one of three choices: denial, growth, or despair."
Its uncanny how applicable this is, I feel I have held the mirror and she cycles all three of these suggested outcomes. I want to serve her higher self rather than flesh self through natural law/STO principals. I am finding myself in bizarre psychic situations where like Perseus I must tread with care when she asks me to give her love because she "needs reminding of the feeling" without reciprocating, in other words, to hug without being hugged and demand it. I want to love her up though it also wafts the scent of a trap, manoeuvring me into prey position for STS food stimulus..
I feel unsure of how to fully address the situation because, you see, I'm not certain my perception is correct, how can I be? perhaps I'm wrong and if I give without having anything reciprocated back there will not be negative repercussions so I'm curious to possible inputs on that.

"Vampires that are not fully formed may desperately try to cover up the growing vampire seed within by "doing good deeds." This isn't done consciously, mind you. At this point, the narcissistic view of the self is so powerful that looking in the mirror and seeing the true emptiness of the soul is impossible. Such an event would result in the total meltdown of the entire personality structure, and the subconscious defense mechanisms won't allow that.

Rather than facing and dealing with the real issues, acknowledgement of the darkness within, acknowledging mistakes and lies and manipulations of others, being truly sorry, and truly asking for help such people desperately seek to eradicate what they subconsciously suspect about themselves in any way they can. The chief method is by "doing good deeds" through projecting the darkness in their own soul onto someone else.

Of course, that is just the psychological "real reason," and not the Theological reason. The archetypal forces will use this mode of behavior - will stimulate such thinking - in order to accomplish their own goals. The individual will be persuaded in their own mind that, by following a certain course of action, they can - little by little -eradicate the dreaded shadow that haunts their mind. And of course, it is "out there." But this then becomes the tool of the "head vampire" at the top of the food pyramid, to both enhance feeding potentials, as well as to destroy any threat to the status quo.

Vampire lore tells us that holding up a mirror to a literal vampire is a dangerous task. In psychological terms, holding up a mirror to a person in whom the vampire archetype is active is also problematical at best. It is at such a moment that the individual can make one of three choices: denial, growth, or despair. In criminal psychology terms, they have the choice to continue their criminal behavior with the strong likelihood of ultimate destruction; to radically change; or just commit suicide and get it over with. The individual who chooses to not change and grow, to not acknowledge the emptiness of the soul, effectively chooses to become a full vampire. Such a person has no capacity for true human compassion, but they have endless "forms" that they may take on to pursue the goal of obliterating the threat to their survival as a vampire."

Then, you jump to a conclusion that she could be the Feminine Vampire, while some things described above sound to me like yourself violating her free will.

In general it seems like knowing this truth you talk about makes you feel in some way privileged over others, could that be the case?

Yes I do violate her free will by pushing information, I watched some of Marc Passio's videos on Natural law which was found to be incredibly insightful to respecting everyone as a sovereign individual with due respect. I can see that blurting out information is dangerous and ineffective. It cannot, will not, must not continue to happen!

I do at times feel privileged to be on the quest, it's the best thing that has ever happened to me! I do also often disregard a lot of what people tell me because lots of it is actually B/S, its ridiculous..

A while ago I became increasingly aware of STS influence on myself seemingly everyone I know!

Like you have found, you'll be pretty isolated if you do this, and that's not the point. You've got to be in the world to learn from it. Have you read much of Gurdjieff's Work? Reading In Search of the Miraculous is a good starting point if you haven't. The Fourth Way approaches development by learning how to consciously navigate the lessons that are presented in front of us rather than to take refuge outside of life. Sometimes this means learning to play a role or developing a "strategic enclosure" as well as practicing external consideration. It really does make things much easier for all involved and it can also help us to work through various lessons.

It's hard to comment on your partner's behavior since many people will respond in similar ways when anyone tries to force a certain way of doing things onto them. The suicidal feelings are concerning though and there may be some other things going on that need professional assistance.

hmm good point, the fact that it effects me negatively to be around such people too often raises a challenge to be met and to practice "strategic enclosure" I shall have a good think about this. thanks!

 

[sacriface]

Re: Advice?

It's like the stimulus response mechanisms are triggered. Yes we discuss what we want to overcome and try to be as honest to each other as possible though one of us will slip into unconsciously expending our energy in a negative self serving way stimulating the others retaliation, for instance: We were discussing principals we want to maintain with each other through sensitive areas of dialogue, she was in a soft state and I was feeling a little inhibited in the mental focus spectrum, she very suddenly polarized into the archetypal authoritative worshipped goddess. The transformation was obvious if you know what to look for. It consisted of her sitting cross legged with a seemingly perfectly straight back, chin up, prominent Egyptian style ear rings and would hook me in with eye contact in moments to then gaze into space in the room as to indicate higher worth than myself, not to mention that she has told me she feels insecure to be seen publicly without wearing her princess jewellery which is yet another clue. After the scene played out, she admitted to getting off over manipulating which I sensed but instead of observing calmly and collected, I was responding abruptly and angrily. It was until I realized I had to defuse my anger aka hyper-dimensional food and recalling don Juan's quote that she too softened! It was fascinating to see how the dynamics played off one another:
-" Impeccability is nothing else but the proper use of energy. My statements have no inkling of morality. I've saved energy and that makes me impeccable. To understand this, you have to save enough energy yourself.
Warriors take strategic inventories. They list everything they do. Then they decide which of those things can be changed in order to allow themselves a respite, in terms of expending their energy.
The strategic inventory covers only behavioral patterns that are not essential to our survival and well-being.
In the strategic inventories of warriors, self-importance figures as the activity that consumes the greatest amount of energy, hence, their effort to eradicate it.
One of the first concerns of warriors is to free that energy in order to face the unknown with it. The action of re-channeling that energy is impeccability."

As far as my understanding goes these would be indicative of mechanical behavior.
And impeccability is reached after a very long (maybe life-long) and hard work on oneself, when one doesn't any more have these mechanic responses, as when at one instance the anger is controlled properly and energy saved, it all runs out in another instance, and so on. One cannot at one moment be impeccable and at another-not, it's mutually exclusive.
This refers to Gurdjieff's terms of many little I's. One I wants to do The Work, and self-observe, though another ones when given the lead waste everything that was achieved by the former. That is why it is so difficult to remain impeccable. Gurdjieff himself described one struggle with his own mechanicalness even at a late point in his life. This should give an idea just how hard it is.

Have you read much of Gurdjieff's Work? Reading In Search of the Miraculous is a good starting point if you haven't. The Fourth Way approaches development by learning how to consciously navigate the lessons that are presented in front of us rather than to take refuge outside of life.

I'd also very much recommend that, the way Ouspensky explains the foundations of The Work is much more understandable and less mystifying in comparison to Castaneda's writings.

Not being familiar with Barbara E. Hort's work, and never encountering behavior that you have described in your partner, I cannot make any statements regarding that. But you mention the hesitation about your observations and conclusions.

I think operating with such serious and profound interpretations of someone's behavior could effect in a dangerous confusion if one isn't entirely sure of what they're doing.
It should be kept in mind that we all are equipped with the predator's mind that essentially is a psychic vampire and it's traits precipitate continuously in our daily life. Determining whether somebody is only and just that is very difficult and requires a great knowledge, experience, and a deep knowledge of oneself to be aware of one's own biases (programs) while observing another. You could, for instance, be dealing with someone who feels very insecure and has a low self-esteem. Focusing on certain, chosen traits alone could effect in "demonizing" of the person, while in fact she just needs help. It's just one other possibility, I don't know, but you don't seem to be sure about it either. There seems to be a very wide and contrasting spectrum of ways you see your partner and your own judgement of the situation, trying to fixate on one or another out of uncertainty is very risky.

It's hard to comment on your partner's behavior since many people will respond in similar ways when anyone tries to force a certain way of doing things onto them. The suicidal feelings are concerning though and there may be some other things going on that need professional assistance.

I'd definitely agree with Renaissance.
Acting alone on esoteric interpretations applied without a broad ordinary knowledge in down-to-earth psychology or qualified professional help when it comes to such serious issues could only make everything harder and more confusing.

 

[davey72]

Re: Advice?

There are reccomended books here in the forum that will help you with your questions, such as Stranger to ourselves. I haven't read any of these yet, but something that may help you is this thread.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,31760.0.html

 

[Nienna]

Re: Advice?

A while ago I became increasingly aware of STS influence on myself seemingly everyone I know!

As Renaissance said, we are all STS here. If we weren't, we wouldn't be here on this planet, in this density, at this time.

I feel like it is a waste of energy to maintain contact with people with a "mechanical" nature that I am working to relieve myself from. In doing so I have largely isolated myself and influenced my partner to do the same.

There is a lot of self-importance here. You see yourself above those who are acting mechanically, and, yet, you are doing the same thing by isolating yourself - and telling your partner to do the same thing. How unfortunate for your partner.

My partner is skeptical to my perceptions which I feel largely to be true, though at times, I reflect In hind sight that maybe she is right and I'm nuts! I also find myself getting offended (self importance) by her programs.

This is because of your lack of strategic enclosure. We all have done it at the beginning of seeing things differently than others do, and, so want to let them know how wrong they are in their thinking. Another act of mechanical reacting, internal considering and self-importance.

My partner has become largely unhappy, crying often, voicing momentary feelings of suicide, defensive anger and often expresses uncertainty if she really wants me to be her partner which Is naturally her right to decide. I can't tell if I've really messed up or if it's the necessary action to change because, I recognize aspects to the "Feminine Vampire" archetype Laura depicts in the "Adventures with Cassiopaea" thread and discovered a program running where she wants to be worshiped which such program is denied my energy and really I can't believe it took me so long to realize, I mean she has stickers of goddesses on her drinking canisters and a few ornaments, she acknowledges this to be true.

I would say that, yes, this is your fault. You have been acting towards her with nothing but internal consideration, not external consideration. Infringing on her freewill and telling her things that she has not asked to be told.

And, of course, it's all her fault, she is a feminine vampire and has programs running. So do you, many, in fact. We All Do! Can you see your self-importance here?

I take responsibility for talking about all these things to her rather than with which is recognizably STS program lacking external consideration and yet unsure whether all of the guilt is for good reason or if it's a response stimulus trap from above.

You should have never talked to, or with, her about things that she does not want to know. And, it looks to me, that you are trying to find a way to blame her, again, for your actions.

I think it would be a good idea to balance out the dark stuff with more positive things in our life and joyful experiences, I have really been focussing on this stuff as my partner would say "obsessively". I want to support her and myself the best way possible.
Do you have any suggestions from personal experiences, useful ways to tackle this situation? Perhaps we can support and share our experiences of such matters on this thread and refine our methods.

Yes, stop talking about things that she does not want to know. Stop trying to influence her - to change her into what you want her to be. That's totally internal consideration. Try to treat her the way that she wants to be treated (external consideration). Back off being "obsessive" over what you are doing. Work on yourself, not on others. You cannot change others, only yourself.

P.S. I share a few methods I am doing to maintain well being:
- Eating Paleo/keto always with intermittent fasting a few days p/w
- going to gym a couple days p/w for 30 minutes max
- having saunas a couple days p/w
- EE stretches + breathing approx 3 days p/w whilst Bio energetic breathing 2 days p/w
- sleeping mostly well.

It would be good if you would read In Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky, as already recommended. And the three Gnosis books by Mouravieff.

I am not trying to be harsh with you. However, you are putting yourself above others. Doing the Work is done amongst others. Gurdjieff says that, "the Work cannot begin and cannot proceed on a level lower than that of the obyvatel, that is, on a level lower than ordinary life."

Also, he says, that,

Right external considering is very important in the Work. It often happens that people who understand very well the necessity of external considering in life do not understand the necessity of external considering in the Work; they decide that just because they are in the Work they have the right not to consider. Whereas in reality, the Work, that is, for a man's own successful Work, ten times more external considering is necessary than in life, because only external considering on his part shows his valuation of the Work and his understanding of it.

If you are uncertain of what the term "obyvatel" means, then, look it up, here on the forum, with the search function.

 

[Laura]

I don't see anything wrong with honoring the goddess principle in women assuming they are truly conduits for the goddess energy. And sometimes, you need to treat them that way first and then they "grow into it" and "become it". Having a "goddess" at your side who is full of knowledge, wisdom, compassion, is not a bad thing. So I guess the real question is: is she capable, and does she WANT to become a true "goddess representative"? And if so, can you be the "knight" who assists in this process?

 

[Keyhole]

Hello Malachi,

A while ago I became increasingly aware of STS influence on myself seemingly everyone I know! I feel like it is a waste of energy to maintain contact with people with a "mechanical" nature that I am working to relieve myself from.

I can understand how you feel, as I do feel like this sometimes as well. People have already said this but - MOST of us are 'mechanical' all of the time, which is something I often don't take into consideration either. I find that is very easy to label people, which in my experiences produces the 'Us versus Them' effect which isn't really beneficial to anyone. It only demonstrates my level of self importance... I experienced this while watching David Icke, he would very often label the people he deemed to be 'asleep' as = "SHEEP" - in a rather derogatory way. Now I see that this is one of the things that demonstrates his level of consciousness. Anyhow, it certainly can produce the impression of having more worth than others, which is certainly a trap we all tend to fall into.

You say that you have been influencing your partner to do the same as you are attempting to do, can I ask - Has she read the books that you are reading and is she interested in this area of study?

If so, is she honestly asking?

The reason I say is because I am currently experiencing a rather difficult situation with my mother in which I am constantly faced with attack and opposition. I have imposed my views onto her and broken free will many times. All of this was supposedly coming from a 'nice' place (actually STS) trying to 'save' her, and solely because she was ASKING - with words. I have now come to see and learn that even though she was 'asking' with her words, she was not ready for information of this sort.

By becoming identified with her being 'ready' - I have only pushed her away from the Work by breaking her free will. Which is the last thing I would have liked to do.

Perhaps this may help when the situation next arises... to question whether she is actually asking or not, because you may end up pushing her away from seeking the information you want to share.

 

[Keyhole]

Also, in regards to your relationship

I also find myself getting offended (self importance) by her programs. My partner has become largely unhappy, crying often, voicing momentary feelings of suicide, defensive anger and often expresses uncertainty if she really wants me to be her partner which Is naturally her right to decide.

I have experienced being offended by the programmes of my partner also, yet when she ever attempts to highlight MY programmes I am quick to shoot her down. I get extremely defensive and find any way to justify my behaviour and try to disprove what she says... This causes her to be very upset sometimes and doubt the relationship. Is it fair to point out someone else's programmes yet attack that same person when they do the same? We are all different, and each have different sets of programmes and acknowledging neither are in control will be a good starting point.

Today, my partner sat down and pointed out some of my programming and behaviour and how it made her feel and suggested I read the 'External Considering' thread here on the forum. I observed for the first time the way that it made me feel - Deep down there is some part of me that thinks I have more knowledge than she does -just because I have read a few more of the books. That whenever she picks me up on my behaviour - I feel defensive and speak down to her as if she has no right to question ME... This is certainly not an admirable trait, and is something that has influenced our relationship from the start. Me being a the dominant figure in the relationship due to my programmes, and her being the dominated due to hers. It is a recipe for disaster! I can see looking back that it is the usual culprit - Self importance. This is why the Work and everything that comes with it is essential for growth. I think that applies to every aspect of life.

I recognize many attributes of the "Feminine Vampire" in the actions of my partner and feel to degree that she is very much is aware of many tendencies in moments. I'll give a few examples: "doing good deeds" indicates surface expression. An example could be as simple as gifting me a can of tuna as a means to apologies for hostility thought it sounds petty, yet I could feel a sense that if I accept the Tuna I shall also receive her "darkness".

This 'feminine vampire' may actually be narcissistically wounded, and as someone pointed out to me yesterday - most people are. This makes feeding inevitable... As my relationship is faced with similar issues in regards to narcissism - I can only echo what other people have said on this forum of which I am currently to gain knowledge of. We are all damaged... and rather than trying to place blame on others for their wrong doings, understanding why they are doing it helps you have patience and compassion for where they are at on the learning cycle.


(P.S I must have accidentally posted the unfinished comment above ^^^ I am unsure how to delete it, thankyou


Mod's note: It has been taken care of. :)

 

[Jenn]

My partner has become largely unhappy, crying often, voicing momentary feelings of suicide, defensive anger and often expresses uncertainty if she really wants me to be her partner which Is naturally her right to decide.

I can relate to these feelings, and I believe it was mainly due to the fact that I did not feel ready to undertake the work, but felt like I was being forced into it, as that was the way my partner was going and I either had to get with the programme or get lost so to speak, which was my perception of the events, because that it not necessarily what he meant, however the way he went about things seems quite similar to what your saying and by his own admission he was breaking my free will by telling me all that he did. Because of this violation of my free will it made me attack him and the work, and due to my programmes feel intense self-pity and lack of self worth, which fuelled the suicidal thoughts and doubts about my relationship.

Also something to consider, is she pushing you away because she feels pushed away? I read that when we are feeling a lack of love, we ourselves deny it to others, which in my case meant pushing my partner and everything he was saying away because I felt like I was being forced to make a decision I didn't feel ready for.

As Keyhole says, you need to be very careful because you could completely put her off the work, which is nearly what happened to me, with the disintegration of my relationship I resented everything... However this 'boiling point' allowed me to make a decision in the end for myself, I chose the work. But it was a very thin line and I would say that my partner could have been more patient and less "obsessive" and invasive as this was only a repellent.

Its uncanny how applicable this is, I feel I have held the mirror and she cycles all three of these suggested outcomes. I want to serve her higher self rather than flesh self through natural law/STO principals. I am finding myself in bizarre psychic situations where like Perseus I must tread with care when she asks me to give her love because she "needs reminding of the feeling" without reciprocating, in other words, to hug without being hugged and demand it. I want to love her up though it also wafts the scent of a trap, manoeuvring me into prey position for STS food stimulus..

I hold my hands up to this too, being called out for it by my partner was horrifying but necessary, being showed a mirror drove me to want to change, however what is not nice is feeling to blame for the way you are, which was the outcome of his lack of consideration for my feelings.

It might help not to imagine her as a goddess who is there to stop you on your travels but rather as a product of conditioning, I can't prove that is the case I can only speak from my own experience. She may have learnt to behave in this way, in my case my mother and my nan seem to show traits so it is no wonder I played out the programme too and then there is society that promotes feeding relationships. So as Keyhole says blame gets us nowhere.

Thorn x

 

[Soluna]

I know it's very difficult not to react emotionally in a close relationship - however reaching a place where you can sit back mentally and observe yourself and your reactions is very helpful. In my situation, I try as best I can, to live as an example - I know I can't change how my partner acts, but I can be as open as honest as possible; try to practise strategic enclosure; be calmly tolerant and try and 'show' that my beliefs and practises work for me in a positive way without them being a hindrance on him.

I hope you find some helpful advice from others in the thread to help you on your journey and through your lessons.

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

Re: Advice?

I take responsibility for talking about all these things to her rather than with which is recognizably STS program lacking external consideration and yet unsure whether all of the guilt is for good reason or if it's a response stimulus trap from above.

You should have never talked to, or with, her about things that she does not want to know. And, it looks to me, that you are trying to find a way to blame her, again, for your actions.

This is a program that I also have. Not only with my ex partner but also with friends and family. Overall I can handle it fine, but sometimes I want to tell them so many things!. Obviously behind it is some belief to be better than the rest, or worse, to save them. In any case, when we are calm we can see that if people did not ask for the information, we must do not give it. Not only because that could do damage, but because, if the person is not interested, she or he can distort or influence us to give them the information from an unbalanced emotional state (fight of egos, "your truth vs my truth"). So, that way we would be giving desinfo to others.

I don't see anything wrong with honoring the goddess principle in women assuming they are truly conduits for the goddess energy. And sometimes, you need to treat them that way first and then they "grow into it" and "become it". Having a "goddess" at your side who is full of knowledge, wisdom, compassion, is not a bad thing. So I guess the real question is: is she capable, and does she WANT to become a true "goddess representative"? And if so, can you be the "knight" who assists in this process?

Very beautiful and inspiring.

 

[malachi]

I really appreciate your cutting straight with me Nienna, the only way is to be honest, and have "In Search of the Miraculous" ready to go.
I see my self important issues, and its hard to say but also narcissistic self obsessed/absorbed traits. I notice I get distracted or hypnotized by my reflection, have practiced maintaining awareness while looking in the mirror. Though Its hard to define the line because it seems logical that if your main focus is to work and change yourself then you're going to need to be substantially self orientated. yes?

I can relate to these feelings, and I believe it was mainly due to the fact that I did not feel ready to undertake the work, but felt like I was being forced into it, as that was the way my partner was going and I either had to get with the program or get lost so to speak, which was my perception of the events, because that it not necessarily what he meant, however the way he went about things seems quite similar to what your saying and by his own admission he was breaking my free will by telling me all that he did. Because of this violation of my free will it made me attack him and the work, and due to my programmes feel intense self-pity and lack of self worth, which fuelled the suicidal thoughts and doubts about my relationship.

Also something to consider, is she pushing you away because she feels pushed away? I read that when we are feeling a lack of love, we ourselves deny it to others, which in my case meant pushing my partner and everything he was saying away because I felt like I was being forced to make a decision I didn't feel ready for.

Yes, this is the case although she is very interested in "the work" its more that I talk about it too abruptly/dominantly and don't accentuate the wisdom through my actions kind of like a wet blanket, capable of providing warmth and comfort yet cold and uncomfortable.

Hello Malachi,

I can understand how you feel, as I do feel like this sometimes as well. People have already said this but - MOST of us are 'mechanical' all of the time, which is something I often don't take into consideration either. I find that is very easy to label people, which in my experiences produces the 'Us versus Them' effect which isn't really beneficial to anyone. It only demonstrates my level of self importance... I experienced this while watching David Icke, he would very often label the people he deemed to be 'asleep' as = "SHEEP" - in a rather derogatory way. Now I see that this is one of the things that demonstrates his level of consciousness. Anyhow, it certainly can produce the impression of having more worth than others, which is certainly a trap we all tend to fall into.

You say that you have been influencing your partner to do the same as you are attempting to do, can I ask - Has she read the books that you are reading and is she interested in this area of study?

If so, is she honestly asking?

The reason I say is because I am currently experiencing a rather difficult situation with my mother in which I am constantly faced with attack and opposition. I have imposed my views onto her and broken free will many times. All of this was supposedly coming from a 'nice' place (actually STS) trying to 'save' her, and solely because she was ASKING - with words. I have now come to see and learn that even though she was 'asking' with her words, she was not ready for information of this sort.

By becoming identified with her being 'ready' - I have only pushed her away from the Work by breaking her free will. Which is the last thing I would have liked to do.

Perhaps this may help when the situation next arises... to question whether she is actually asking or not, because you may end up pushing her away from seeking the information you want to share.
[/quote]

She does honestly ask and show interest in the work we've been reading posts on this thread together, listening to podcasts, watching videos, reading paragraphs, though she does not ask for my abrasive enforcement.. If they're not in the space to give attention to such a topic or show a lack of interest then as you indicated, we must respect them. In that dynamic its like we aren't even giving a real care for them its more a sense of pride because "I know this and you better know it".

I don't see anything wrong with honoring the goddess principle in women assuming they are truly conduits for the goddess energy. And sometimes, you need to treat them that way first and then they "grow into it" and "become it". Having a "goddess" at your side who is full of knowledge, wisdom, compassion, is not a bad thing. So I guess the real question is: is she capable, and does she WANT to become a true "goddess representative"? And if so, can you be the "knight" who assists in this process?

interesting point. I guess I question what the characteristics are which make a "goddess"? I have associated her connection to the "goddess" as an infection from previous years to "new age" indulgence. At the same time, I recognize my own fears and self doubts have led me to oppose the powerful goddess in her which provides an opportunity to now encourage this force. feel kind of excited actually. Whilst I obtain all these programmes I focus on them because that's whats predominantly important to over come. I do maintain a recognition that I also have wonderful qualities worth fighting for and/or with. I know in the fact that everything changes.

There are recommended books here in the forum that will help you with your questions, such as Stranger to ourselves. I haven't read any of these yet, but something that may help you is this thread.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,31760.0.html

thanks davey, incredible to read the thread about "splitting", seeing a quality within someone and defining them by it.

I noticed a few people saying they have similar programs, suggest we start recording where our programs kick in and reflect upon them using: who, what where when and why, I have a sense that my programs are "trauma" oriented, this means that it's a good Idea for me to recount my past experiences, perhaps yours is similar?

Principles:
Strategic Enclosure - I read that it depends on the density you live in that defines the necessary type of enclosure for your environment. So far I can see the benefits of imagining a psychic forcefield between yourself and other individuals which enables you to feel a sense of privacy for the inner state, protects from possible leechiness, and the ability to appear like a "normal person" with "normal standards". Have noticed that Laura accentuates a attitude in the videos where there are unknown students in the room, seems to be related to this strategic enclosure?

External Consideration - I guess you could say charismatic psychopaths are good at "external consideration"but for the opposite reason. A technique where you disguise internal thoughts and feelings which if externally expressed can cause a hindrance on another. Example could be baby sitting children who's parents provide wheat as food for the children in every meal, I know this is toxic yet I do not express my opinions of the food to the parents as it will likely cause problems.

 

[liam1310]

A while ago I became increasingly aware of STS influence on myself seemingly everyone I know! I feel like it is a waste of energy to maintain contact with people with a "mechanical" nature that I am working to relieve myself from

hi malachi
as Renaissance said everyone has a mechanical nature, we respond with our programs no one is untouched by this
i was a reaction machine reacting to the girlfriends programs struggling with self importance and still
am to some extent, i would dominate the relationship and she would allow it, id push my understandings of things onto her
and nearly destroyed the relationship took a while to relise we need to grow individually come to our own understanding of things
let the relationship evolve over time without putting demands onto each other work on yourself lead by example
its a process.

would be a good idea to balance out the dark stuff with more positive things in our life and joyful experiences, I have really been focussing on this stuff as my partner would say "obsessively". I want to support her and myself the best way possible.

great idea IMO.

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