Repaying Debts

[henry]

JP, do you think that the S. in the dream truly represents the woman you know, or could it simply be a symbol of some part of yourself?

 

[Buddy]

I wanted to get some advice on whether what I am thinking makes sense or not. I feel like I need to share and learn what I need to do in this situation if I want to keep moving forward.

Thanks for sharing this, Jeff. It seems to me that what you are thinking makes sense, yet, it would be beneficial to consider that even though something makes sense within the narrow context in which it is often looked at, that doesn't mean that a particular interpretation is accurate or correct within a larger context - merely, that it is favored for some reason.

This is something we can learn from lots of self-observation.

I have noticed an increasing desire to repay the people who I may have hurt in the past. It seems to stem from the positive part of the emotional centre and everything is clear when that happens.

This seems to be a common reaction as we face more and more of ourselves and our sense of our personal responsibility levels rise. I've been through it exactly as you describe and I'm sure many others have as well.

FireShadow's post in Reply # 3 is a good reference for more info on this.

It dawned on me that to be fair to her would mean repaying this debt with an apology. The realization was to give her a call and tell her 'I'm sorry'.

How did this 'dawn' on you? What does 'fair' really mean in this context? How was a 'debt' incurred? Have you asked yourself any of these questions?

...what I thought was a pure desire to do what was best for her.

We cannot determine the needs of another. This is an STS intention line. Have you ever thought that a particular action would be objectively good to do, but the only way to carry it out would be to apply force (or coercion) somewhere? That's what is meant by STS intention.

These doubts and fears are all based on me, except for this: Is it fair to just contact someone out of the blue after so long, considering I have no idea what is going, or has gone on, on in her life?

Depends on what you mean by 'fair' in this context. Networking is good. Determining the needs of another is not. Neither is forcing something on someone as a consequence of internal considering.



Jeff, Have you actually read Laura's on-line Wave series? In the beginning, where Laura is working as hard as she can to present the story sequentially, there is a point where she has completed certain research and is about to reveal the 'smoking gun' that spells out the predator's mind when all kinds of problems start coming up, almost leading to the point of shutting down the whole thing and putting an end to her Work.

One of the lessons we can take from this if we choose, is that whenever you are sincerely Working, the predator's mind can inject whatever is necessary or convenient in order to throw off your focus and divert your course and you won't even know what's happened.

Am I being overly sensitive? Don Juan says follow the path of heart and I want to do that from now on.

Don Juan said a lot of things. :) The path of the heart could just be a referentless nominalization [1] in this context. The question is what exactly did he mean and do you mean the same thing? How do you know?

The breathing and meditation exercises deal with everything from stress to releasing emotional blockages. And, after all, isn't that really what you're wanting to release? Emotional blockages that prevent you from perceiving and experiencing life as the best YOU that you can be?

I would say give it some more time, fwiw.


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[1]
Referentless nominalizations are sounds or scribbles (words) that supposedly refer to something, but in fact do not refer to anything concrete in physical reality. Since people create meanings for words, each person will then create an idea in his own brain as a definition. For example if someone says the word "cat" he can point to the animal in physical space. But if someone says something like "mysticism" or "society," the person has nothing to point to other than a collection of people or buildings. The person he is speaking to then creates his or her own definition for that "thing." Some words and phrases are nothing more than hypothetical constructs, or imaginary concepts. In these cases there is no physical object to point to. Each person then has his or her own imagination-based idea of what they mean by these words.

 

[Beorn]

JP, do you think that the S. in the dream truly represents the woman you know, or could it simply be a symbol of some part of yourself?

Yes, I have considered that. it could be some part of myself.

 

[Beorn]

Jeff, Have you actually read Laura's on-line Wave series? In the beginning, where Laura is working as hard as she can to present the story sequentially, there is a point where she has completed certain research and is about to reveal the 'smoking gun' that spells out the predator's mind when all kinds of problems start coming up, almost leading to the point of shutting down the whole thing and putting an end to her Work.

One of the lessons we can take from this if we choose, is that whenever you are sincerely Working, the predator's mind can inject whatever is necessary or convenient in order to throw off your focus and divert your course and you won't even know what's happened.

I have read the wave series but it was a few years ago now and have forgotten a lot of what was in there. I am planning to go over it again soon.

Don Juan said a lot of things. :) The path of the heart could just be a referentless nominalization [1] in this context. The question is what exactly did he mean and do you mean the same thing? How do you know?

True. He was referring to the fact that in life all paths lead nowhere, or at least you can't expect them to lead anywhere, so you should choose the path that has heart. I took this to mean engaging the emotional centre in all decisions we make. Exactly how this is done or whether he meant the same thing is my interpretation. As you say it could be something different.

The breathing and meditation exercises deal with everything from stress to releasing emotional blockages. And, after all, isn't that really what you're wanting to release? Emotional blockages that prevent you from perceiving and experiencing life as the best YOU that you can be?

I would say give it some more time, fwiw.

When I started the breathing program I had decided to specifically not try and do anything, just let things play themselves out. In the turmoil I guess it's easy to forget. Thanks for the reminder and yes I agree, more time is needed.

 

[Ellipse]

I have noticed an increasing desire to repay the people who I may have hurt in the past. It seems to stem from the positive part of the emotional centre and everything is clear when that happens. When I stop and think about it however, all kinds of considerations come into play and I begin to doubt the initial realization. This doubt paralyzes me which then seems to create a block and a build up of energies, like a kink in a hose, until I work out what to do.

Anyway, one of the debts I think needs to be repayed is to a friend I grew up with all through school. I always liked her but due to shyness and the fact I couldn't see past myself I never told her. We did eventually date but I was so awkward, hated myself, and was so embarrased that I ended up just saying a quick goodbye and left, never to speak to her again. I've always felt horrible about it ever since. (over 10 years)

It dawned on me that to be fair to her would mean repaying this debt with an apology. The realization was to give her a call and tell her 'I'm sorry'. Given that it has been so long I thought I would think it over for a few days. This brought a whole host of doubts and fears which seemed to muddy what I thought was a pure desire to do what was best for her. These doubts and fears are all based on me, except for this: Is it fair to just contact someone out of the blue after so long, considering I have no idea what is going, or has gone on, on in her life? In a desire to repay a debt I woudn't want to increase it!

This has brought up other people I may have hurt. A friend I did not go and see after she had a bad accident and someone I played sport with who spent time in jail and I never went to see. In all these cases my heart burned inside me, but I couldn't overcome feelings of worthless to see their needs. These two I have spoken with since and am still friends with the girl who had the accident, but have never apologized, which I think I might do now.

I read this quote from the “Law of One” material, and immediately think of your message.

REDEMPTION

May 26, 1987

I am of Jesus the Christ and I greet you in the perfect consciousness of love.

This channel has for some time been reluctant to release those human concerns which all pilgrims must have. Jesus the Christ said repeatedly that there were certain actions which had no redemptive quality. Many, like this instrument, tend to believe that some of their actions will never be redeemed.

We wish to focus the attention upon the fact of redemption as a living thing. Actions are like shells. They may, as scale upon a plant, cover it and blight it so that it has difficulty growing but, in themselves only, are without redemptive quality.

Just so, wrong action is like a shell which covers and without attention may harm the organism of the living spirit. Yet the soul itself is never in any way lost to redemption. Only the actions are so. Thus, to identify with actions is to identify with death and to identify with a heart receptive to Jesus the Christ is to identify with redemption and life.

We leave you in the peace of whole and perfect life in Jesus Christ, now and ever. Amen.

 

[Ivan_]

I have hurt, betrayed, manipulated people and a substantial part of the process i guess is to learn the lesson, but i think i have to pay too IMO. And i have no idea how to do it so as not to hurt them even more and/or not to determine their needs. After all, what do you think should be done guys?

 

[daniello]

Well, my little suggestion Jp, is that Your will to finish the 'unfinished' is natural. Perhaps, You'd like to end the cycle and cleanse. Just to take in consideration, I've had similar thoughts previously. At the beggining, I felt I had to end the case. When I sat and meditated I tried to understand the problem. It came to my mind, that my concerns are unnecesarry, that the problem is solved. It was the only thing I needed to understand ( at this point of time). Thus, all we seek for, is already inside us.

 

[Vulcan59]

Hi ivan,

There is another thread that you may want to read through to get some insights. Here is a one that you may find useful:-

.....I think it can lend itself to Subjectivity and a lack of External Consideration. Something that has weighed heavily on your on mind may not have affected the other person to the same degree, and/or they may not appreciate having "old stuff" brought up out of the blue. I mean, the past cannot be "amended". It seems to me that the most important thing is identifying the mechanics of your part in the situation, so that (1) you have learned the lesson involved, and (2) you are unlikely to do the same thing again with someone else. Seems more important that you "get right" with yourself and the universe, than with the other person.

 

[Ivan_]

Hi ivan,

There is another thread that you may want to read through to get some insights. Here is a one that you may find useful:-

.....I think it can lend itself to Subjectivity and a lack of External Consideration. Something that has weighed heavily on your on mind may not have affected the other person to the same degree, and/or they may not appreciate having "old stuff" brought up out of the blue. I mean, the past cannot be "amended". It seems to me that the most important thing is identifying the mechanics of your part in the situation, so that (1) you have learned the lesson involved, and (2) you are unlikely to do the same thing again with someone else. Seems more important that you "get right" with yourself and the universe, than with the other person.

Thanks a million Vulcan59, it seems that i am not the only one doing mistakes (all as a result of programs and predator's mind and the like in my case) and then trying to fix it all up when it's a little bit late :) I saw that link inside this thread here and am reading through em both.