**** spoiler alert ***** See the movie first if you'd like to discuss it afterward without being colored with comments seen here *****
Alana,
It is a rare gem of a movie, I agree. I think it must have quietly scared a lot of people actually (like the neighbor's wife, in the movie).
Alana said:
Well, it was about war, but the war between control and dominance in relationships, in order to compensate for complexes and to satisfy programs.
I had to think about your comment here for a day, because I had not seen it that way, and wanted to contrast it with what I initially saw. Yes, in the end, when He capitulated, I have to agree there was some kind of pressure brought to bear because He was no longer on board with the plan. Both knew that they could not make it happen individually. Basically, one of the partners quit in the following of the plan. Usurped (fear, programs, ... ?), cold feet, lack of strength, any and all of these. Which left both of them in the exact same spot that they so boldly wanted, and decided, to leave in the first place. He apologized and asked forgiveness in the end, knowing He had capitulated, all the while knowing his partner still felt the same distress that the plan was supposed to alleviate (with un-guaranteed results, and every uncertainty, to boot, which was EXACTLY the whole point). So, insult to injury, He was asking Her for forgiveness for not having the Will to follow through and passively asking her to continue a life of mundane western slavery they both hate in the first place.
She recognized that they were both distraught. He felt it too for both of them, but being caught up in the World, he felt it mostly for himself it looked like, since he was the one on the frontline "fray". And this is where the storyline was fantastic: the plan reversed that! This is not to be under-estimated. The effect of "role" and identification versus being a whole human being navigating the World structure, in partnership or not.
In the end, one had more Will in the partnership. The roles could have easily been exchanged, and the result the same, though. (There is still the issue of a "partnership" being needed at all, but that's outside of the scope here).
Alana said:
*****spoiler*****
Azur, i found Him quite psychopathic, but my friend insists it's how men are in general. Well, her take is sad, because she is known to be attracted to pathological men, but i wonder what's your take on this? Sure, i identified more with Her.
I don't think he was psychopathic at all. Remember his birthday scene, when he comes home to her welcoming after she had decided to "go beyond"? (That was the same day he also broke "convention" in having an affair that he didn't seem to care for). He was crying in shame at the foot of his family showing him love. Maybe he was ashamed at forgetting himself?
(And after that scene, you see him in angst in the shower, seemingly because of what he had done).
Alana said:
I found her reaction where he tells her of his cheating very honest and powerful.
It was very powerful. Especially the part where she says: "What did you think telling me would accomplish?" (paraphrased). She was asking him what it is he was trying to solve internally for himself and using her to do it for him.
Alana said:
And the "crazy guy"? He could see better than anyone else, but was wrong about his last sentence about Him being that way because of how She makes him feel. I think He was like that, She was just trying to make Him happy. Same old...
Yes. The Crazy guy was the "Voice". Uncompromising. That little twist in his otherwise objective dialogue was surprising, but it did seem to be to light a fire underneath him to see if he could come out the other side. He did, somewhat, and understood that he couldn't follow through, but she wasn't to blame. (This was the scene where she ran off into the forest, and he was worried about her after he could not bring her back out, but sat in his house (symbolic shelter against the Universe), drinking, and wringing his hands).
The line he repeated twice was great: "Plenty of people are onto the emptiness, but it takes real guts to see the hopelessness." Of course, that was in context of living the "American Dream". It is understood to mean the Western World, really.
It is one of the best things about this film, things are not black and white.