Same sex marriage: Is it MARRIAGE or is it marriage?

[ajseph 21]

JAFaura I understand where you're coming from but we as a people don't control the legislative process nor the economic one nor even the religion ones not even food. It's all disinfo (voting protesting for imaginary rights support this cause or that one). Like truth seeker said the AA movements were just ways of self calming on a massive scale like all other things the elite throw out to get us concerned with "A" influences. In all honesty slavery is still imposed on us today through feudalism, politics, false religion, and our own passions are perhaps the most sinister kind. And the network is international so the US isn't great based on forums like this. Political Ponerology is recommended to show why ideologies are used to keep us fighting for nothing. If you wanna be with a same sex partner, BE with them and don't give a damn about what they say.

 

[realitybugll]

I also believe in the greatness of America at least historically speaking. I have not really researched it. but I think America made great and unexpected progress in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries in terms of quality of life of it's people. for instance electricity adoption, railroads, cars. etc.

For gay marriage - I agree that the current laws is unfair to them. since I think in many states and on the federal level same sex marriage couples are not given equal benefits. I guess in terms of tax deductions etc. But a related issue is gay adoptions, which I think it could be justified for the state to have the prerogative to deny adoptions of state orphans on the criteria of the sexual orientation / sex of the couple.

Also some people focus on the unequal rights of gay couples and make this their personal evil. and then they become focused and don't see greater evils. So it is really a side issue in my view and not that important. If there is legislation for equality on this matter hopefully it should not infringe on private institutions like a church to decide what couples it wants to marry. I read an article just recently - Washington state is suing a florist for 2000$ fine and to change it's practices for refusing to serve a gay couple at their wedding - when it was against the florists beliefs. which I think is wrong - and this is lawsuit is done under some state wide equality legislation which has gone too far.

 

[Alada]

I'm do not know how many of you have had the opportunity to travel abroad, particularly in third world or oppressive countries. It is true that there are some very deep and fundamental problems with this country, but what I think makes it great is not its government, far from it, but the fact that groups like the those of us that read and comment in this forums have the opportunity to do so and if we chose to we could go even further and gather to bring about whatever change we believe in.

Seriously? Gather? As in the Occupy Wall Street movement? What happened to that? Or join forums, as in the 9/11 Truth movement? The only thing ‘great’ seems to be the depth of hypnosis required to still make people believe they are ‘free’ and living in a ‘great’ country. Have you been reading SOTT, did you see Boston get locked down last week?

At this point you can guarantee that any group which sticks it’s head above the parapet to try any effect any meaningful change out there ‘in the world’, will pretty soon find it’s head lopped off one way or another by the psychopaths and their relentless authoritarian domination machine.

The greatness of this country is not based on its economy, military, politics or any other sanctioned body, it is in its people. Millions of people risk life and limb to come here, not because, as most people believe, they are looking for a better job, but because they want to have the opportunity to learn about and belong to groups like this one.

The irony in the above is that Laura and Ark read the signs and chose to leave the U.S. with their family, in order to guarantee their ability work and publish freely and for this forum to continue to exist as it does!

 

[Laura]

I'm do not know how many of you have had the opportunity to travel abroad, particularly in third world or oppressive countries.

In case you haven't noticed, about 30% of the members of this forum LIVE in the countries you describe as "third world" or "oppressive."

You are WAY behind on your research; best get to work and catch up. I know it is tedious when we keep recommending books, but that's really the only way to do it. At least the books we recommend have been vetted so you don't have to waste time on nonsense or disinfo!

 

[JAFaura]

I do not in fact know how many of those who participate in the forum live in third world or oppressive countries, but I would imagine that their perspectives would only serve to enrich their discussion, whether they agree or disagree is not the point, their insights relative to the human experience reflected in those countries' legislative process or lack thereof is. Of the responses of comments I have read only a few specify they are outside the US. I have not found data on the origin of the members, if it exists I would welcome someone pointing me to it.

I choose to believe that the fact that we can communicate with each other, share ideas, experiences and insights with each other far better than at any other time in history affords us the opportunity to bring about change, not through any soft of sanctioned or measured process provided by the very people we know to be oppressing us, but through the simple act of making the oppression public.

Is there slavery now? Perhaps intellectual slavery, but not institutional slavery. As recently as 60 years ago, black individuals had to eat, work, live and even go to the bathroom in places that were provided by those who were white. They were treated as second class citizens and were in fact not really considered human, but something less. Those are facts, do they still suffer from those humiliations and from the accepted prejudice that kept them down? No, they do not, that too is a fact. Did that happen because there was institutional enlightenment? Absolutely not. It happened because enough people who suffered made it plain to the world. They did not allow it to happen in the shadows, quietly. If it was going to happen the world was going to know about it. That's why it happened.

I wrote the post because I do not choose to allow government, in any of its forms, to paint marriage with the patina of morality and religious traditions that they present as the 'moral authority'. Who we choose to love is nobody's business but ours and the laws that govern us need to reflect that. That is not going to happen if those who are affected by the imposed morality simply bow and accept it.

I believe that the group, whatever may define it (philosophy, race, sexual orientation, etc.) is far more empowered now than it has ever been. How would those that comment on this or a variety of other forums of all kinds have found each other before the internet? Does the very existence of this forum, SOTT and other like groups not speak to an ability to propagate ideas, even ones that may prove to be counter to those of the establishment? Or is their existence simply a mirage implemented by those who would seek to impose thought, a mirage meant to assuage those who may one day rise up? I choose to believe the former.

I am a part of a minority on a number of levels and I have known the tragedy and pain of intellectual subjugation of an entire people, but I've also known the freedom that the power of collective intellect harnessed by those with the courage and the willingness to carve a path to objective truth. I choose to believe in the incredible power of human curiosity and in the peace that the simple search for new ideas can bring.

 

[ggen]

The following link will take you to the homepage for the Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind. On the left hand side of the screen you can click on 'Members Map' to get a view of where the members originate. *Keep in mind that not everyone who contributes to the forum is an actual 'member' of the Fellowship.

http://paleochristianity.org/

May I suggest that while on that page you read The Statement of Principles if you haven't already done so. I see that others have already taken the time out to gently point you in the direction needed for further learning and 'Understanding', all I can do is echo their advice. It seems your dictionary is very different from the one that's utilized on the forum.

Also, have you read Anart's last response to you in the thread The Bible Unmasked?

 

[Mountain Crown]

[quote author=JAFaura]I've also known the freedom that the power of collective intellect harnessed by those with the courage and the willingness to carve a path to objective truth. I choose to believe in the incredible power of human curiosity[/quote]

Truth is, with all this “freedom” and “incredible power” the world is worse now than ever, with only a very select few even interested in objective truth.

More often than not, discussions and sharing of ideas for their own sake are really nothing but engaging others to satisfy some needs like approval, to be right, or whatever. It can make one feel good, and important.

To say: “I choose to believe. . .“ means nothing really. What matters is breaking through the illusions with facts.

Certain beliefs function to absorb the impact of how truly profound and ubiquitous the illusion is.

 

[Al Today]

[...]
whether they agree or disagree is not the point
[...]

Okay, my confusion is confounded. I do understand the amount of information to gather is great. On a personal note, in no way have I consumed enough information to have wisdom in much of anything specific. Information exists from outside must be accumulated, as by reading for example. Learning from others within a network is also of the utmost importance, for one cannot learn all there is, alone. Because bias will form, emotions have a tendency to lead astray. Besides, just my thoughts here but methinks there is something out there that does NOT want us to learn truth.

Information is to be gathered from numerous sources. Book learning is a must, but life is to be experienced. Some learn from experience, some learn from networks and some do not learn, especially from mistakes. Funny word, that wisdom.

With regards to confusion of the above quote. With many elegant words with lengthy circular motions have stated what others have to think was more important that merely reading written words. And now you say the above?

[...]
I will read the work referenced in your replies in detail and will correct or modify my contributions accordingly. Part of my impetus for posting here was to learn more about the topic from others who may be better positioned to comment
[...]

Won't be the first time where of course, I am most likely wrong, but methinks to gather understanding that others here have written of your positioning stated opinions, not based upon the critical reasoning, but from subjective argumentation. I also cannot get rid of this feeling of having purpose. Or maybe not, I dunno. Anyway... I have sat back a long while, not posting anywhere upon this forum because methinks me ignorant. Which indeed I am, as well us all. Ignorance can be taught while stupid is to the bone. I apologize to you that you are within the crosshairs. I have a saying about some senior citizens. They are not grumpy and mean, they are just tired of the krap.

[...]
You are WAY behind on your research; best get to work and catch up.
[...]

 

[cubbex]

I do not in fact know how many of those who participate in the forum live in third world or oppressive countries, but I would imagine that their perspectives would only serve to enrich their discussion, whether they agree or disagree is not the point, their insights relative to the human experience reflected in those countries' legislative process or lack thereof is. Of the responses of comments I have read only a few specify they are outside the US. I have not found data on the origin of the members, if it exists I would welcome someone pointing me to it.

I choose to believe that the fact that we can communicate with each other, share ideas, experiences and insights with each other far better than at any other time in history affords us the opportunity to bring about change, not through any soft of sanctioned or measured process provided by the very people we know to be oppressing us, but through the simple act of making the oppression public.

I'm from those third countries, and if you want my opinion, USA looks like a gigantic field for an experiment on subtle human slavery. That poor country seems less free than mine, still, they sell freedom through material progress and satisfaction, adding the typical idea of a psychopath: give them what they want and then ask something in return with interests

Anyways, no country is completely different, the point is that no human will have complete freedom if a bunch of wackos are at the top.

I wrote the post because I do not choose to allow government, in any of its forms, to paint marriage with the patina of morality and religious traditions that they present as the 'moral authority'. Who we choose to love is nobody's business but ours and the laws that govern us need to reflect that. That is not going to happen if those who are affected by the imposed morality simply bow and accept it.

I think you are loosing one point, that is that the government from any country may not have all their capacity just by themselves without having the support of the citizens either through action or inaction. That's why if you study political ponerology you will understand, that is not that much as institutional or intellectual slavery as institutional and intellectual corruption, a corruption of ideas and beliefs that make it able for them to take control.

The lack of emotional maturity in society makes it able to use morality and similar concepts for the purpose of manipulation and control.

 

[JAFaura]

"I think you are loosing one point, that is that the government from any country may not have all their capacity just by themselves without having the support of the citizens either through action or inaction. That's why if you study political ponerology you will understand, that is not that much as institutional or intellectual slavery as institutional and intellectual corruption, a corruption of ideas and beliefs that make it able for them to take control."

Is institutional and intellectual corruption not in the end a manifestation of political and intellectual slavery? Could corruption take place if those it was perpetrated upon were allowed the freedom to identify it and refuse it? What are the choices available to those of us who are not a part of the 'inner' circle, a part of those who make the rules we live by? We can simply adhere to the laws presented to us blindly, without comments or thought; we can follow the law and comment and converse amongst ourselves, never choosing to do anything but simply commenting on what we see around us, the unfairness and evil of it all, but in the end following along; we can try to become a part of the machine, giving up our soul in the process and willing to pay whatever the price might be to be 'in'; if the laws imposed upon us are unfair or in any way trample upon our own path, we can choose to bring about change. Some do it peacefully and some do it through violence and a different kind of oppression. Those are the options available to us, in all of their permutations.

"Won't be the first time where of course, I am most likely wrong, but methinks to gather understanding that others here have written of your positioning stated opinions, not based upon the critical reasoning, but from subjective argumentation. I also cannot get rid of this feeling of having purpose. Or maybe not, I dunno. Anyway... I have sat back a long while, not posting anywhere upon this forum because methinks me ignorant. Which indeed I am, as well us all. Ignorance can be taught while stupid is to the bone. I apologize to you that you are within the crosshairs. I have a saying about some senior citizens. They are not grumpy and mean, they are just tired of the krap."

I don't know your background, where you're from or your viewpoint relative to this topic or any other, but I am sure that whatever you are generous enough to share within this forum is of immense value, at least to me. Whether it reflects the beliefs and ideas that make up the foundation of this forum I cannot comment on, others are better equipped and more that willing to do so. Our beliefs and ideas only have power when they reach others and when they are enriched by those they reach and that can come as agreement or disagreement. It isn't about being right or wrong, but sharing our own slice of existence with others who may want to benefit from it. Perhaps I am in error because I do not post anything with an eye to adhering to anyone's point of view or perspective, nor with the intention to display my profound knowledge of a particular work, yes even referenced work. I think it is sad that you believe that since you don't think you have a deep enough understanding of the philosophies referenced you don't feel you can post. I think you probably have a wealth of ideas and perspectives that many people would be honored to have you share. I hope that me being 'within the crosshairs' gives you a bit of breathing room to share what you are willing to share.

The principal point of the post was to contextualize the way the Supreme Court is deliberating on the same sex marriage ban. I am not black, but I can imagine the outrage that those who were oppressed, denied equal opportunity, equal education for their children must have felt. I think that to simply declare that the Civil Rights movement was a disinformation to assuage the masses does it an incredible diservice and trivializes the sacrifices that many people, people with no political weight or economic consequence made in order to bring about change. I imagine it must be the same for those who choose to love someone of the same sex and who cannot enjoy the legal protections afforded to other couples. Those who have chosen to try to bring about changes are facing a law that is drawn on religious and moral traditions, something that the founders explicitly determined to be against the very foundation of this country. What is their other option, to leave things be and simply bow to a legislative process that is not willing to afford them its protection because of who they choose to love? No, this country is far from perfect and the pathology that runs through its bowels present an almost insurmountable obstacle, but if those who are most affected do not make their voices heard then it all happens without the world knowing.

I will continue to share ideas, experiences and whatever else that I fully own with anyone who may wish to benefit from anything I have to offer. I will do so respectfully and more than willing to accept any response that agrees or disagrees with anything I have to say. If my posts do not bring any value or don't reflect the accepted philosophy then folks can simply choose not to read them.

Nowhere in the guidelines did I read that in order to post your line of thinking must coincide with those whose works are referenced. They make clear that the precepts the forum was established under were those reflected in those works, but I either missed or simply did not understand that posts within the forum must reflect a deep understanding and agreement with the fundamental premise of these works. If the administrators feel that what I share is not appropriate or does not reflect the right perpective they can simply delete the post.

 

[Mountain Crown]

You should have noted from the Forum Guidelines that our aim is far greater than sharing opinions on how to best save the illusion that is America.

Since you continue haranguing us anyway it leads me to conclude that it was always about you.

Any disappointment you may feel is really that we fail to be your food.

 

[paralleloscope]

Nowhere in the guidelines did I read that in order to post your line of thinking must coincide with those whose works are referenced. They make clear that the precepts the forum was established under were those reflected in those works, but I either missed or simply did not understand that posts within the forum must reflect a deep understanding and agreement with the fundamental premise of these works. If the administrators feel that what I share is not appropriate or does not reflect the right perpective they can simply delete the post.

I think you are missing the point of 'maximizing the signal to noise ratio', as this serves the purpose of the forum and time is precious. See Opinions.

 

[Rich]

The principal point of the post was to contextualize the way the Supreme Court is deliberating on the same sex marriage ban.

I've read your posts JAFaura but have had a hard time trying to understand what is you're trying to say. Even when you explain what the point of your post was I still don't understand what the point of that is. I think it does boil down to what you write here:

I either missed or simply did not understand that posts within the forum must reflect a deep understanding and agreement with the fundamental premise of these works.

Without a deep understanding of the purpose of this forum you will find it nigh on impossible to connect and engage with other forum members and instead remain in a one-way discussion seemingly with yourself.

You have an enquiring mind and write eloquently but in order to participate fully here you do need to take time reading and work hard to fully understand why folk are here - and ultimately why you yourself are here.

As has been suggested I think you'd benefit from reading the Wave and adventures series, the recommended reading list and take it from there.

 

[ajseph 21]

JAFaura what you are experiencing isn't "putting you in the crosshairs" it's mirroring. The network is showing you yourself and offering you advice that shouldn't be ignored but heeded. A deep understanding of the world, ourselves and each other is what we're here for. And the recommended reading is essential for this purpose. The "movements" you speak of are non-issues in the grand scheme of things because America was never free it's always been an hypocritical, enslaved, murderous, and greedy culture.

 

[RedFox]

JAFaura you haven't yet replied to Laura's question on the other thread.
It may be worth your while taking the time to do so, rather than writing more lengthy posts.

JAFaura, are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger Effect?