Ive read through this thread, and thought it useful, in the name of networking, to share my thoughts and reflections regarding advaita in general and Mooji specifically.
I was engaged in YouTube Satsangs with Mooji before I met the man who was responsible for pointing me in the direction of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, J.G. Bennett and SOTT and the Cassiopaean material, in particular The Wave. That was nearly three years ago. Mooji's pointings helped immensely during that rock-bottom period of my life. I see that there are correlations between the 4th Way Work and Mooji's pointings. These two paths up the mountain do not converge, nor do they begin from the same village at the mountain's base, but in the climb, I have noticed that there seems to be similar techniques, or, as it couldbe said, 'ways of climbing', that are similar, yet different. I am finding it difficult to know where to begin such a comparison. But in the effort, I aim to find an expression that can make clear to myself and others the relation of East and West, active and passive.
As Gurdjieff warned, unless the wisdom of the East and the energy of the West were harnessed and used harmoniously, the world would be destroyed. I understand this to be an injunction to harness these two poles within us, first and foremost, as individuals. The world cannot be somehow rescued by a Being inhabiting a broken machine. Work on ourselves must precede any impulse to go out and 'change the world'. This is a sentiment shared by Mooji, though expressed differently. To paraphrase, he would say that the Mind will make use of the suffering of others in the external world to distract an individual from continuing to internally develop their attention. I see a parallel here with Laura's writings in the Wave, whereby 4D STS will make use of our good, charitable impulses to turn us into energy food. In all of these accounts, it seems a necessary step on the path to realize that we cannot 'do' anything about 'the world', because as yet, we are still under the sway of automatism, Mind, or implanted programs. The language is different, but the gist resonates. Below is an example of one of Mooji's videos on the subject of 'helping'.
One difference I have noticed in these two paths up the mountain stems from a sentence from William Patrick Patterson of the Online Fourth Way School. He described the Fourth Way Work as aiming to 'develop sacred individuals'. For Patterson, Buddhism aimed to free the individual into 'full, solid emptiness'. This, in my view, is also the impression received in my regarding Advaita. Full solid emptiness. How to make sense of this? Are these contradictory paths up the mountain? A sacred individual seems quite different from full solid emptiness. I am still new to the 4th Way material, and have not fully made clear to myself how emptiness enters into the Work. I ask myself - what would Gurdjieff say? Apparently he 'answered every question' in his tomes.
I recall a passage from Beelzebub's tales in the chapter 'Man's Understanding of Justice' (p. 1138) regarding the need to struggle mercilessly with one's passive aspect, for the good of All:
"Evidently we men, also like all existing units of the World, are formed and always consisit of the same three independent forces, by means of which the process of reciprocal maintenance of everything existing proceeds; namely of the following three independent World forces:
The first of these forces constantly arises from the causes which proceed in the Prime Source itself and from the pressure of the newly arisen, and issuing from it by momentum, flows out from the Prime Source.
The second World force is what this first forces becomes, when, after having spent the momentum which it has received, it strives to reblend with the source of its arising, according to the fundamental World law called "The effects of a cause must always re-enter the cause".
Both of these forces in the general process of reciprocally maintaining forces are entirely independent, and in their manifestations have always and in everything their own properties and particularities.
The first of these two fundamental forces, namely, that one which for compelling reasons always manifests outside the source of its arising, must constantly involve; and the second one, on the contrary, striving to blend with the cause of its arising, must always and in everything evolve.
Owing to the fact that the first of the mentioned three independent forces arises from vivfying actions proceeding in the very foundation and the cause of everything existing and thus receives in its presence the germ of the possibility of manifesting vivifyingness, it may be considered as 'Good', that is as a factor for the actualizing of the backward-flowing effects which in relation to this first force can and must be considered 'Evil'.
Moreover, the first of these forces, which is manifested from inevitable and compelling causes arising in the Prime Source iself, can from this point of view be considered as passive. And the second backward-flowing force, because it must constantly resist in order to have the possibility of penetrating backward or at least the possibility of withstanding the opposite-flowing first passive force which has received its momentum from the Prime Source causes, must be regarded as active."
In relation to Advaita, The Fourth Way Work emphasizes this backwards-penetrating evolutionary 'second force', described in various ways: active mentation, conscious labours, intentional suffering. This could be said to be the specifically 'male' cosmic aspect. The 'energy of the West'. In realtion to the Fourth Way Work, Advaita emphasizes the flowing-from-Source 'first force', described in various ways: allowing Life to take care of Life, resting in the observer, keep quiet. This could be said to be the specifically 'female' cosmic aspect. The 'wisdom of the East.'
Patterson, who has spent many more years on this planet, and who has spent many more years in the Work than I, states the following:
"People would say, “What is the difference between Advaita Vedanta and the Work?” My reply to them was, “The basic teaching of the Work is self-remembering. What is the self? If you can answer that question, you will understand Advaita. There isn’t really a differentiation between the Fourth Way teaching and Advaita, there only seems to be."
This interview will be of assistance for those interested in these two paths.
digitalseance.wordpress.com
I was engaged in YouTube Satsangs with Mooji before I met the man who was responsible for pointing me in the direction of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, J.G. Bennett and SOTT and the Cassiopaean material, in particular The Wave. That was nearly three years ago. Mooji's pointings helped immensely during that rock-bottom period of my life. I see that there are correlations between the 4th Way Work and Mooji's pointings. These two paths up the mountain do not converge, nor do they begin from the same village at the mountain's base, but in the climb, I have noticed that there seems to be similar techniques, or, as it couldbe said, 'ways of climbing', that are similar, yet different. I am finding it difficult to know where to begin such a comparison. But in the effort, I aim to find an expression that can make clear to myself and others the relation of East and West, active and passive.
As Gurdjieff warned, unless the wisdom of the East and the energy of the West were harnessed and used harmoniously, the world would be destroyed. I understand this to be an injunction to harness these two poles within us, first and foremost, as individuals. The world cannot be somehow rescued by a Being inhabiting a broken machine. Work on ourselves must precede any impulse to go out and 'change the world'. This is a sentiment shared by Mooji, though expressed differently. To paraphrase, he would say that the Mind will make use of the suffering of others in the external world to distract an individual from continuing to internally develop their attention. I see a parallel here with Laura's writings in the Wave, whereby 4D STS will make use of our good, charitable impulses to turn us into energy food. In all of these accounts, it seems a necessary step on the path to realize that we cannot 'do' anything about 'the world', because as yet, we are still under the sway of automatism, Mind, or implanted programs. The language is different, but the gist resonates. Below is an example of one of Mooji's videos on the subject of 'helping'.
One difference I have noticed in these two paths up the mountain stems from a sentence from William Patrick Patterson of the Online Fourth Way School. He described the Fourth Way Work as aiming to 'develop sacred individuals'. For Patterson, Buddhism aimed to free the individual into 'full, solid emptiness'. This, in my view, is also the impression received in my regarding Advaita. Full solid emptiness. How to make sense of this? Are these contradictory paths up the mountain? A sacred individual seems quite different from full solid emptiness. I am still new to the 4th Way material, and have not fully made clear to myself how emptiness enters into the Work. I ask myself - what would Gurdjieff say? Apparently he 'answered every question' in his tomes.
I recall a passage from Beelzebub's tales in the chapter 'Man's Understanding of Justice' (p. 1138) regarding the need to struggle mercilessly with one's passive aspect, for the good of All:
"Evidently we men, also like all existing units of the World, are formed and always consisit of the same three independent forces, by means of which the process of reciprocal maintenance of everything existing proceeds; namely of the following three independent World forces:
The first of these forces constantly arises from the causes which proceed in the Prime Source itself and from the pressure of the newly arisen, and issuing from it by momentum, flows out from the Prime Source.
The second World force is what this first forces becomes, when, after having spent the momentum which it has received, it strives to reblend with the source of its arising, according to the fundamental World law called "The effects of a cause must always re-enter the cause".
Both of these forces in the general process of reciprocally maintaining forces are entirely independent, and in their manifestations have always and in everything their own properties and particularities.
The first of these two fundamental forces, namely, that one which for compelling reasons always manifests outside the source of its arising, must constantly involve; and the second one, on the contrary, striving to blend with the cause of its arising, must always and in everything evolve.
Owing to the fact that the first of the mentioned three independent forces arises from vivfying actions proceeding in the very foundation and the cause of everything existing and thus receives in its presence the germ of the possibility of manifesting vivifyingness, it may be considered as 'Good', that is as a factor for the actualizing of the backward-flowing effects which in relation to this first force can and must be considered 'Evil'.
Moreover, the first of these forces, which is manifested from inevitable and compelling causes arising in the Prime Source iself, can from this point of view be considered as passive. And the second backward-flowing force, because it must constantly resist in order to have the possibility of penetrating backward or at least the possibility of withstanding the opposite-flowing first passive force which has received its momentum from the Prime Source causes, must be regarded as active."
In relation to Advaita, The Fourth Way Work emphasizes this backwards-penetrating evolutionary 'second force', described in various ways: active mentation, conscious labours, intentional suffering. This could be said to be the specifically 'male' cosmic aspect. The 'energy of the West'. In realtion to the Fourth Way Work, Advaita emphasizes the flowing-from-Source 'first force', described in various ways: allowing Life to take care of Life, resting in the observer, keep quiet. This could be said to be the specifically 'female' cosmic aspect. The 'wisdom of the East.'
Patterson, who has spent many more years on this planet, and who has spent many more years in the Work than I, states the following:
"People would say, “What is the difference between Advaita Vedanta and the Work?” My reply to them was, “The basic teaching of the Work is self-remembering. What is the self? If you can answer that question, you will understand Advaita. There isn’t really a differentiation between the Fourth Way teaching and Advaita, there only seems to be."
This interview will be of assistance for those interested in these two paths.
A Conversation with William Patrick Patterson
The Monthly Aspectarian: How did you discover the Fourth Way? And will you briefly tell us the story of going through it. William Patrick Patterson: At a very early age, I wondered what life was ab…
digitalseance.wordpress.com
