Self-Observation, Inner Talking & Work Instrument

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Craig said:
I wonder whether there is a neuro-scientific explanation for this.

I also tried the night after your response, and reading a few chapters, practicing the reverberation in the solar plexus. Well I felt SOMETHING, a sort of "fuller pulse" from the dead centre out a few inches. But then when I stood up, I couldn't seem to replicate it - almost as if it needed more attention to try and "home in" the solar plexus area, so I didn't bother.
I don't know if this is satisfactory, but I have been practicing various versions of this reverberation (there are similar techniques in Hinduism and Taoism) although I pieced together my method from different directions. The reverberation of "I AM" focuses brain activity in the thalamic body, which is a nexus where all brain currents pass through on their way to the body and vice versa. It is a cross-roads where everything comes together in a condensed standing wave of meaning.

It is not so much where identity or presence is located, but where a pattern forms in the neural structure where all the separate elements of thought, emotion and sensation come together to form a singular structure. This pattern is then passed back to the cortex where it is analyzed as "my experience".

Thus, the "I AM" reverberation also closes a greater body/mind meridian circuit and when you focus on a part of the body you make a connection between that part and the part of the brain representing its tactile response. Pain actually conducts from different pathways than other sensations and the velocity of transmission is much less for pain than for other stimuli. Thus when you reverberate I AM through a body part, you close the meridian circuit passing through it (and also passing through the thalamic nucleus) and overide the slower pain transmission.

Simultaneously you propagate through the I AM reverberation a pattern of wholeness of self, which is also a pattern of health as far as the body is concerned. Many popularized exercises in Taoist yoga, Tai Chi and bioenergetics are useless, because this "little secret" of I AM reverberation is not included, even though it is the foundation for any of them to really work (apparently you need to find a "master" to tell you this).

From my experience, I found subtle differences between the reverberation of the word "I" and the word "AM" (the first being self-reference/presence, and the second a verb of dynamic being). I have also added to this the designation ME, and found it amplifies the reverberation as far as the body is concerned (I AM ME). It seems that the sentence then completes itself with subject/verb/object constructs and the reverberation becomes cyclic.
 

Cyre2067

The Living Force
Weeeee! Learning is fun. It's amazing how rapidly one's perspective changes in a matter of days. A few questions, constation - can it be done with positive emotions to achieve any results of worth? I didn't notice any mention of these and so i had to ask.

SI-12 and SOL-12 - what the heck does that mean? I get that its some sort of finer energy but what do the letters/number's represent? Acronymn or abbreviation?

When i play video games it's kind of like the inverse of self-observation. Instead of being Brent who play's the video game i become the character in the game itself. This i find truely interesting and only thought of it after reading the above thread a 2nd time through. Anyone else experienced this or anything similiar?

Lastly, on constation during negative states, it's hard for me to get angry. It's difficult for me to get sad, or to otherwise experience emotional extremes. They happen, but i sort of tamed myself years ago as to be "in control" of myself more often then not. What im realizing is that i probably did aspects of the work without realizing what i was doing, and most importantly without the self observation bit. Any suggestions on this? My intuition leads me to believe that ill experience triggering situations as the need and my skill arises so its not a big deal. But would anyone suggest unlearning what i learned? and if so how?

::giggles:: this stuff is soooo cool.
 

Keit

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Cyre2067 said:
When i play video games it's kind of like the inverse of self-observation. Instead of being Brent who play's the video game i become the character in the game itself. This i find truely interesting and only thought of it after reading the above thread a 2nd time through. Anyone else experienced this or anything similiar?
Yes, actualy. Here what I wrote a while ago on russian forum (translated):

I like to play computer games. Not "shooters" like "Unreal" or "Doom", but strategy or most of all RPG (role playing game) where I have an opportunity to construct the character and live it's computer life/adventure.

If the game qualitative and the story interesting enough, it is possible to receive pleasure as from a good book, despite the fact that in a computer game flight of imagination basically limited. Recently I am keen by the game " Neverwinter Nights " (very much recommended) and have noticed that in all D&D games I choose the same character class - "half-elf ranger"(good-neutral). I can be Mage or simple Fighter, but my play feels clumsy, not "real" enough, as though I accept only the essence/profile of "ranger".

After I've noticed it, I started to think about it... Very often, when we read books and we take a great interest in a plot, we actually feel for characters and we put ourselves in their place. We "give" them life with our imagination and intention... And as we still haven't discover all secrets and keys of life creation , it is impossible to deny a possibility of creation of life by means of an idea.

And to be honest - I conside anything created by imagination - as something that have some form of life...

And how about computer games? In fact, in the dawn of computer graphics, when films about virtual reality were very popular, already then people assumed that some day computers will develop consciousness. It's can be result of "natural" evolution that will take N quantity of time. But what if someone will include factor of "intervention" of more developed consciousness?

For example, consciousness of the player? Once I read something written by heavy gamer. He wrote on the forum that he puts his player on "bot mode" - (automatic game) and each time when his character is killed - he feels it. Well, I think that it is dishonest to put character on "bot mode", but this is another issue.

It is a good and extreme example of creation of self consciousness imprint or link. Maybe I can't successfully play other RPG roles, because of internal sensation that I am "ranger" and can't be anything else?
That this is my "signiture"/profile in the computer world. Can it be, that when we play and we spend our time/emotion/energy/intention and ideas - we create certain psychic projection and participating in creating life or sustaining some system/organism?
 

Craig

Jedi Master
Brent, as for your other questions, wait for the book and read it. There is the Cassiopaea Glossary, but it's necessary to have a wider conceptual basis that can only come from Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous and Mouravieff's Gnosis.
 

manitoban

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I've been reading this thread for quite some time now, and finally today, I managed I think to put it into practice, at least in a small way, so I wanted to share this here.
It had been a trying morning with my three year old, and the final straw came as I was standing in line at a store, impatiently waiting my turn. In front of me were some tourists who were chatting away happily, taking their time, oblivious to the screaming tantrum going on behind them. I started getting really annoyed, thinking how selfish and inconsiderate these people were, and how me and my child should clearly be served first etc... Then I remembered to self observe myself, and at that moment, I realised it was just a program, and the anger wasn't me. In an instant it seemed, I went from frustrated to rush of happiness. I coudn't believe how fast my state changed. I know this is a very minor example, and I'm not even totally sure of the process that occurred, but it was a first for me, as a result of what I've learned here. Thanks!!
 

Cyre2067

The Living Force
Actually, i realized prior to even thinking about self observation a program i used to run was when in situations that were awkward, uncomfortable or provoking nastier emotions i used to step outside of myself and attempt to see the situation from a third person sort of view and find the humor in it and then laugh. Once i could do that i could actually laugh off virtually any unconfortable situation i had come across just by stepping outside myself. I wasnt consciously "self observing" per se, but it was the same idea, and it brought similiar results IE laughter. :-) Got In Search, and the first four chapters blew my mind. Material resonates highly with current ideology, and i always enjoy that.
 
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Since this particular thread started I've come back to it time and again and always get something more out of it. Sometimes I start swimming around in my stirring slumber and it helps me more grounded again. There have been alot of times I've tricked myself into believing I've had all this down, only to find I've tricked myself. I just wanted to make note and offer thanks to everyone who contributed. It's great to fall back on when I find that I am deluding myself again or simply totally forgetful.

I think I have only experienced once any true self observation, the rest of the time I'm just tricking myself.. but - as noted in a post or to that even imagining it is helpful if you keep it up. I've forgotten it entirely a time or two. The one experience I had that I think was.. may have lasted all of 5 seconds was an argument with my wife. It seemed some totally non-relevant issue became the whole world and just as I was about to destroy it I saw the simplicity of the situation.. for example milk.

I could not believe after giving her all that money or whatever the heaven that there was no milk.. OMG how could she be so stupid not to get milk!? It's as essential as breathing when it comes to shopping.. and on and on my mind blowing idiocy went.. and in a moment of clarity I was outside myself for an instant. It's kind of hard to describe but it was almost like seeing myself standing there with steam coming out of my bodies head. In an instant there was a merge and I laughed out loud and pulled the money (a measly two dollars, more valuable than the world only seconds before in my rage), gave it up with an apology.

That was some months ago. While reading today I started 'trying to observe myself while I was eating and stopped tasting. When I try practicing stilling my thought process I find that I stop breathing sometimes. heh, :) it's not that I am holding my breath but that when I try and stop the thought process (notice I said try please), it's that there seems to be noise or static between inhaling and exhaling.. sorry started moving on into rambleville there.. it's just really a great thread and again much appreciated.
 

manitoban

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Noise said:
That was some months ago. While reading today I started 'trying to observe myself while I was eating and stopped tasting. When I try practicing stilling my thought process I find that I stop breathing sometimes. heh, it's not that I am holding my breath but that when I try and stop the thought process (notice I said try please), it's that there seems to be noise or static between inhaling and exhaling.. sorry started moving on into rambleville there.. it's just really a great thread and again much appreciated.
I've noticed the same thing - sometimes when I'm self observing, stilling my thoughts, I do seem to be holding my breath, (or more like just stopping breathing briefly), although not as much now as when I first started.
I'd like to second your comments about this thread, I too come back to it again and again, and I always learn something new.
 

Gawan

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Really thanks for this thread.

All I can say about it, is that the work is definitely an ongoing process.
What happens to me mostly all the time, that I want to deal with the "big things" first, because the small ones (to deal with small programs/ watch my body) are too annoying/boring, but well then the opposite is happening or nothing at all so to speak. It seems my -moving center- is a little bit too active.

What observation belongs there have been moments in my live, where I could watch myself without interfering in what I'm doing, it has been like a very clear look from outside. But it is and has been not happening at will.
The metaphor of the "spiritual muscle" is a very good choice imo, because it requires simply training to observe and to keep negative emotions below the neck, maybe here comes faith into the play, never to give up, to keep on.


But what I'm wondering about, is it useful, at the very beginning, to do the -stop- exercise mentioned in ISOTM? That means, simply to stop anything what I'm doing, for example: typing, eating… to observe my body, where are my hands etc.?
 

Pierre

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abcdefghiJoerg said:
But what I'm wondering about, is it useful, at the very beginning, to do the -stop- exercise mentioned in ISOTM? That means, simply to stop anything what I'm doing, for example: typing, eating… to observe my body, where are my hands etc.?

Like other exercises that help breaking our mechanical nature, it sounds like a good way to self-observe and become more conscious of what we do, feel and think.

However it should not become an obssession or prevent you from practicing other important aspects of the Work like recapitulation, identifying programs' roots, practicing external observation, etc.
 
Wow, this whole thread is really amazing. It is almost as if my body is tingling just reading it and understanding some of it!

Laura said:
And here, you will find the rationale behind much of what we do in our public work. You may also understand why Gurdjieff did some of the truly outrageous things he did that engendered such hostility and attack. He KNEW what he was doing.

This brings me to a couple of questions. First, I am a neophyte who has not finished the first book of Gnosis yet, but who has read half of several books to get a feel for what might be involved. Is it harmful or dangerous in some way for someone at my level to try to perceive and understand some of the more advanced concepts before I have progressed enough to be there? IOW, is it bad if I read and try to understand some of the 4th grade books when I haven't finished 3rd grade yet?

Secondly, and this is for you, Laura, or a close associate that knows you. (Please let me know if I'm trying to delve too deeply or personally in any way). It has always aroused some kind of emotion (I can't recall it deeply enough to identify it) when I see you defending yourself against external negative elements publicly and in a very verbose way. This would be in cases such as those folks (maybe Frank? -- can't remember some of the names) that went off and put such slanderous material out about you and the group. On the most superficial surface, it seems as if you can't control your emotions and need to defend yourself :) but that doesn't make sense given what I perceive from your writing. So, that makes me ponder another point -- maybe you have gotten the energy you need from it and determined this is the appropriate response. Another possible point -- maybe you are defending your reputation so that the FUD can't develop and prevent others from exploring this site and its ideas. Another possible point -- maybe it is clever provocation to convert more energy from their response. Is there any thing I can learn here?

Maybe the last has already been explained and I haven't run across it yet. I have noticed that "seek and ye shall find" has applied to me in an unexpected way on this forum -- I tend to read alot and questions develop. I post the questions or issues when I haven't been able to find material, and then poof! In further reading I run across something the *exactly* addresses my questions. Joy!
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Hi MrGullible;

I just started studying this thread and I can understand your excitement.
I also understand that the lure of the 'hidden gems' to be found in higher and higher levels of knowledge is quite seductive.


MrGullible said:
...read half of several books to get a feel for what might be involved. Is it harmful or dangerous in some way for someone at my level to try to perceive and understand some of the more advanced concepts before I have progressed enough to be there? IOW, is it bad if I read and try to understand some of the 4th grade books when I haven't finished 3rd grade yet?

Bad, harmful or dangerous may not be the best adjectives, but "balance" may be a good thing to consider in relation to your question.

In other words, to increase your 'being', it is necessary to balance with 'doing'. To use your metaphors, if you have read and studied the 3rd grade material and can do the 3rd grade work, and are an effective 3rd grader, then perhaps it is time for 4th grade books.

Or, it is possible to use the 4th grade books to more quickly guide you to the the areas in 3rd grade where you may be weak or have gaps in your understanding. I think 'evolution' implies integrity in the sense that it must be a natural progression of (logical, integrated, connected-together) steps.

I don't think I would want to learn how to ride a motorcycle before learning the skills of balance and turning (on a bicycle) first, otherwise, at the first sign of trouble, I would have no anchors to help avert potential disaster.
If all my knowledge in this area were relatively new, 'everything I recently learned' could collapse at once and what might have been a minor setback (accident) turns into a catastrophe.




MrGullible said:
[...]On the most superficial surface, it seems as if you can't control your emotions and need to defend yourself :) [...]
Is there any thing I can learn here?

...Or maybe the controlled use of emotion can be a very effective tool when dealing with bullys.
When one's position is anchored in objective knowledge and/or legal rights, effective use of emotion can subvert an enemy's 'strategy' in many ways. It can also be useful to demonstrate the state of being 'resolutely principled'.
At any rate, it is probably the expression of childishness and immaturity that points to whether or not an individual 'can't control their emotions' in a given situation, I think.
 
Buddy said:
Or, it is possible to use the 4th grade books to more quickly guide you to the the areas in 3rd grade where you may be weak or have gaps in your understanding. I think 'evolution' implies integrity in the sense that it must be a natural progression of (logical, integrated, connected-together) steps.

Thanks for your insights, Buddy. Have you experienced any cases where you wish you had not read or studied some of the books before others? Or tried some mental things before others? The reason I ask is that I'm trying learn from the mistakes of others beforehand because I'm making enough to keep me busy as it is :)
 

Buddy

The Living Force
MrGullible said:
Have you experienced any cases where you wish you had not read or studied some of the books before others? Or tried some mental things before others?

Only from the standpoint of time wasted, I think.
I do get excited about subjects that are advanced for me, but I still have to go back and make all the connections that would eventually have led me there, otherwise the knowledge is not mine. It's more or less 'grafted on' and my ability to use it to increase my 'doing' (and, therefore, my 'being') is somewhat handicapped.
Self-discipline is a work-in-progress for me.

Having said that, I have to confess that I do 'peek' every now and then, just for the fun of it!


MrGullible said:
...I'm trying learn from the mistakes of others beforehand...

I have learned from the mistakes of others in some cases, but the keyword is "learn", and for me, that means I still had to make the knowledge 'mine' by integrating all the whys, hows, etc., of which the mistake consists.
 

Andrew

Jedi Master
As most have stated this thread has been most helpful into insights regarding self-observation so I would like to try and make the attempt at sharing my experiences, as of late, with Self-Observation.

When I began making definite attempts to be Self-Observant I noticed that it was extremely difficult to hold my attention without being drawn to some external object, influence, or circumstance that was manifesting around me. I've noticed that the more activity that happens around me the harder it becomes to focus and the faster I succumb to external influences. Of course, upon my first few practices I would only be able to hold it for maybe a minute or two before my Thinking Center, Moving center or Emotional Centers began to identify with either random thoughts, impulses to move and get-up for no real reason at all, or external influences that would bring about Emotional Surges which then would immediately be identified with with no apparent trace of consciousness supporting them.


It has been extremely frustrating, but at the same time enlightening to some extent to come to a vague realization that all ones being subscribes to the changes in external influences. So last night, when the house was quiet and I had time with myself to put my focus and concentration into Observing myself I
had quite a different experience then what I have been accustomed to thus far. Trying to observe my thoughts, emotions, movements and sensations all at the
same time, I found sensations and movements to be the more clear and vivid while thoughts and emotions were a little more difficult to observe simultaneously
if not impossible in certain instances, however what memories there may have been of them are not with me at present.

I found myself suddenly aware of my actual weight, and it's distribution among my body according to my posture at any given moment when I made some type of
movement. I became aware of the various temperatures that grazed my skin at different parts of my body, the various textures the different parts of my body
experienced at any given moment such as the cold hardwood floor against my feet through my textured socks, my right hand sliding down the railing of the
stairs and all the textures and temperatures that came with that feeling as my other hand swung at my side with the air flowing through my fingers - it is
extremely difficult to describe in words what exactly was experienced, however it might be easier to say I was more lucid of my-self and my environment,
while my actions became more deliberate, well paced, calm and graceful vs. the rush, laziness, sluggish movements and complete unconsciousness(?) of my
sensations and movements that I'm accustomed to.

This all seemed to be the direct result of actually observing my-self as I was able to pay direct attention to most of my movements and sensations
simultaneously while being aware of my actual intentions of what I was going to be doing and while carrying those actions out. However, my Thinking
processes and Emotional ones didn't seem to be at all as clear as my movements and sensations were. This is still W.I.P. I suppose?
What I would like to know from group consensus is, does this sound anything at all like the effects of Properly applied self-observation or does it sound
like something is missing? Aside from the Thinking and Emotional observations which have been extremely difficult to attain.


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated



Andrew
 
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