Should I ditch my father?

[cassandra]

It wouldn't be the first time; when I was 14, my parents were divorced, we (my brother and I) would visit my father once a week - he lived 10 minutes'
walk away. It was always stifled and uncomfortable. We always knew he just couldn't be bothered really.
Going back, when he lived with us, the times he was home, he would criticise us nonstop. Okay, we were a bit bratty sometimes.
After my parents separated (we were very upset, but also so relieved he'd gone), he once took us out. There in the driving seat was his new girlfriend. Just like that.
A few years later a friend at school said "oh, I hear your father just got married." He didn't inform us. That very evening he phoned to tell us to come round for dinner. I told him I never wanted to see him again. He was very offended by this apparently.
When my mother died five years later I had no real choice other than to contact him again as there was no one else. He was generous financially and always helped me when I asked.
He also became very fond of my daughters and husband, who shares his interests in sports, especially golf. He is very honest, clever, politically aware, gives money to charity. You'd probably like him, and think him the perfect gentleman.
My problem is that he doesn't like me. He thinks me a bore, stupid and plain. Although he never says it directly, he just finds it hard to have a conversation with me. It' s all very subtle. By the way, you should meet his third wife and stepchildren, talk about awful!!! He's very nice to them!
My husband says that he just can't show he cares, just look at all the stuff he's given me!
I've put up with it all for years, and I've cut the story very short , " for the sake of my children", but I can't do it any more. I'm just there to look after the children
while he's around, so he doesn't have to. Next time he suggest a meeting, I'll suggest he takes the children out and make a cardboard cutout of me, because no one will know the difference. I've been practising getting rid of self-importance while he's around, but it's so BORING being ignored or patronised for 2 hours or more. My elder daughter is also beginning to find these meeting a total bore.
Apologies that this is rather badly written, but it was hard to condense this whole sorry saga.

 

[cassandra]

The title is a bit misleading as I have already made up my mind to drastically cut down contact. But any comments or similar experiences, advice, etc., would be appreciated as it is a big step. I hope I can stay polite as I am apt to give people a piece of my mind and not mince my words when I have had enough!

 

[Matt]

He was very offended by this apparently.

Big egos don't have space or time for questioning, only for getting angry.

My problem is that he doesn't like me. He thinks me a bore, stupid and plain. Although he never says it directly, he just finds it hard to have a conversation with me. It' s all very subtle. By the way, you should meet his third wife and stepchildren, talk about awful!!! He's very nice to them!

Funnily enough, I have same problem. My father is also nicer to those people he deems "worthy". Don't worry about the plain and boring part - some people indulge in pleasures of life so much that they think the world belongs to them - that everybody exist for their entertainment and aren't worth their attention if they aren't "cool funny ppl". My mother attached a term "Lord and Master" to my father due to this. Something is either his, or doesn't have to exist at all. Black and white.

My husband says that he just can't show he cares, just look at all the stuff he's given me!

Careful there. Giving out of compassion/caring, and giving because it makes you feel good about yourself, are two different things, what could be referred to as external and internal consideration, respectively. Your husband seems to be willfully ignoring this subtle difference. I went through similar process with my father. Everything he is doing for me was done not because he wanted to do it for me, but rather because he wanted to be praised. He almost stated outright that he want's his ego to be fed.

I've been practising getting rid of self-importance while he's around, but it's so BORING being ignored or patronised for 2 hours or more. My elder daughter is also beginning to find these meeting a total bore.
Apologies that this is rather badly written, but it was hard to condense this whole sorry saga.

I feel you here. So far I thought it's not common but I see others also have similar problems. Certain people don't have ears and make up for it with loud mouths, full of words and opinions which, when discarded, can incite big ego fights over who is right.

There is little I can advise you. From what I see it's a good situation to embrace him as your own Small Tyrant (as it was described by Don Juan in castaneda's work). Don't engage with him when it would be draining for you, however. You wan't to be strong, not passive. As for being ignored for 2 hours, with my father it's simple: he doesn't say anything for few hours, then is angry for next two days cause he wasn't being paid enough attention. Hypocrisy.

Personally I don't like company of such people because, while I can survive it, it just drains me and they drag me down to whatever path they want to go. That could also be my self importance.

Being father seems to be a specialization nowadays; I've met two people so far whom I can describe as good fathers. I hope you will manage to go through that situation without much trauma.

 

[Leo40]

If we take the premise that the family reflects the consensus reality which is largly based on conditioning
and programming then the reluctance do deal with Father or Mother problems is understandable.
Nevertheless one needs to act in favour of one's destiny.

my 2 cents.

 

[cassandra]

Thanks Leo and Matt,
Thank goodness I had a mother who loved me. Yeah, we yelled at each other, but we were honest, and I could tell her almost everything . She was great fun, cuddly and a darling. He was horrible to her too.
Yes, I would rather be enriched by a conversation than by worldly goods, and I see the money and (hideous, but that's mean) jewellery as a kind of hook. He also puts money into the children's accounts each month. (Kids do find eating in restaurants boring as hell though. They would prefer to go swimming or play games.) They don't know that his wife, who is sweet to them does not want me to inherit that much, because she feels it should go to her daughter, who really is boring, uneducated and rude. My kids must on no account outshine her grandchildren!
I feel like I paid him with my self and family in return. I feel that he will be a lonely old man in the future, because the kids will feel uncomfortable around him also when I am not there.
In fact as would-be STO candidates what happens when our narcissistic parents get old and need our help? Do we continue to ignore them?
Another question: I wonder if having such a lousy family, haven't got round to my bro yet, is a punishment or challenge and interference with my awakening with love from the matrix? Guess I have a lot to ponder.
Thanks again!

 

[go2]

Hi Cassandra, You say your children and husband have a good relationship with your father. You say you are working on self-importance, but you don't get along with your father. OK--You are going to deprive your children of contact with their grandfather because it all about you. It seems a perfect opportunity for you to work on observing your self-importance, playing the role of a good parent and not identifying with your hurt feelings. Perhaps time will heal the wound between you and your father. I wish you well in not harming your children, as your father harmed you with his self-centered life.

 

[Matt]

I feel that he will be a lonely old man in the future, because the kids will feel uncomfortable around him also when I am not there.

Doubt it. Instead of questioning what he sees, he will wishfully explain it in some convenient way, like "People are disrespectful and selfish". When something goes wrong around me, I usually ponder on hy, rather than flail my hands around shouting what kind of horrible world it is. People who don't listen on the other hand, are like those Gurdjief described; they feel sorry for themselves.

In fact as would-be STO candidates what happens when our narcissistic parents get old and need our help? Do we continue to ignore them?

Personally I would go back and help my father would he be unable to, lets say, walk. After all, he did expend a lot of his energy and time on me; no matter his intent, his actions had such effect that in my bitterness towards him I strived to be his opposite, which made me more aware and less ignorant. It only makes sense that I can return the favor by lessening his pain by the late days; I don't like being in debt, materialistic or not. Whether I will be emotionally attached to this is a different story. Each case is different - should something like that happen to you, sit, relax, and think about it carefully.

Another question: I wonder if having such a lousy family, haven't got round to my bro yet, is a punishment or challenge and interference with my awakening with love from the matrix? Guess I have a lot to ponder.
Thanks again!

I think it's "just" a lesson.

Hi Cassandra, You say your children and husband have a good relationship with your father. You say you are working on self-importance, but you don't get along with your father. OK--You are going to deprive your children of contact with their grandfather because it all about you. It seems a perfect opportunity for you to work on observing your self-importance, playing the role of a good parent and not identifying with your hurt feelings. Perhaps time will heal the wound between you and your father. I wish you well in not harming your children, as your father harmed you with his self-centered life.

It's not that simple, go2. My mother was very compassionate person too, who never refused help to those who truly needed it and always listened before speaking. She taught me the same, how to be quiet and reasonable, rather than blind and stubborn. I grew to be a "good" person. When my father returned to my life, his influence made me harsh, ignorant, stubborn and violent person just by BEING there. My mother became very nervous from one dya to another and started having emotional problems due to being terrorized by someone who almost enjoyed this. I was a teenager at a time, which didn't help, but all it takes for monkey to see, in order to start doing. Now I am desperately doing my best to stop being such an idiot as I am right now.

Sometimes depriving relations/frequencies that are potentially harmful during children development can be more in favor, rather than in spite of that child.

 

[RyanX]

There is little I can advise you. From what I see it's a good situation to embrace him as your own Small Tyrant (as it was described by Don Juan in castaneda's work). Don't engage with him when it would be draining for you, however. You wan't to be strong, not passive. As for being ignored for 2 hours, with my father it's simple: he doesn't say anything for few hours, then is angry for next two days cause he wasn't being paid enough attention. Hypocrisy.

Personally I don't like company of such people because, while I can survive it, it just drains me and they drag me down to whatever path they want to go. That could also be my self importance.

It's not that simple, go2. My mother was very compassionate person too, who never refused help to those who truly needed it and always listened before speaking. She taught me the same, how to be quiet and reasonable, rather than blind and stubborn. I grew to be a "good" person. When my father returned to my life, his influence made me harsh, ignorant, stubborn and violent person just by BEING there. My mother became very nervous from one dya to another and started having emotional problems due to being terrorized by someone who almost enjoyed this. I was a teenager at a time, which didn't help, but all it takes for monkey to see, in order to start doing. Now I am desperately doing my best to stop being such an idiot as I am right now.

Sometimes depriving relations/frequencies that are potentially harmful during children development can be more in favor, rather than in spite of that child.

Hi Matt,

FWIW, I think you're doing an awful lot of projecting here which reflects more on your own situation than of being of any practical value for cassandra. There's nothing wrong with discussing your personal experiences with your family, but it might be best to do it in a separate thread instead of offering these experiences as advise. I'm not sure if you have a good grasp of family issues based on what you've posted here.

 

[RyanX]

Hi Cassandra, You say your children and husband have a good relationship with your father. You say you are working on self-importance, but you don't get along with your father. OK--You are going to deprive your children of contact with their grandfather because it all about you. It seems a perfect opportunity for you to work on observing your self-importance, playing the role of a good parent and not identifying with your hurt feelings. Perhaps time will heal the wound between you and your father. I wish you well in not harming your children, as your father harmed you with his self-centered life.

Hi cassandra,

I think go2 has a really good point here. Why would you want to deprive your children of a Grandfather just because YOU have a problem with him? Your father sounds a bit cold emotionally, but that doesn't mean he is pathological (at least from what you've described). Fathers often express their love in different ways than mothers. Many men did not have good emotional role models growing up, so they often do the best they can with what they know. On the one hand he sounds a bit self-centered and awkward emotionally - maybe having a difficult time relating to a 14 yr old girl? Then on the other hand, he doesn't sound that bad of a father being good with sports, financially generous, honest, politically aware, etc.

It sounds like you may still have some anger issues related to your parents separation and your inability to accept your Father's imperfections as a human being. Remarriage after divorce often brings out bitter feelings in families, and while it sounds like he could have handled the situation better, the same could be said of you too. You say that you told your father that you never wanted to see him again after he remarried, and now you wonder why you two have a hard time relating to each other? It seems like you might want to take a closer look at your role in the breakdown of the relationship with your father before cutting him off from your children, fwiw.

 

[cassandra]

Wow, that's 2 posts I lost trying to explain myself better.. Then I had to go out.
okay, ditch is too strong of a word. I was angry. I did say that I wanted to suggest that he does a bit more with the kids without me.
Let's get this straight , I would never, ever deprive my kids of grandparents even though they are not the best role models. I am not that selfish. The only reason I see them so often is for my children. But there is an unhealthy and fake dynamic,l which the kids do pick up on and that concerns me. Although my stepmother is nice to them, my kids must on no account outshine her own family, and she wants her own flesh and blood to inherit my fathers money. Nice lady. A lot is shoved under the rug, so please keep that in mind. Is it good to live a lie? I heard that it is not, so the situation is not so cut-and-dried. Some harm is being done to my family through this, but I said nothing about keeping my kids away from them.
This post helped me to put things in perspective, thanks.
Matt, no I could not really desert an elderly relative either, unless he or she were really harmful.
Thanks for your time.

 

[cassandra]

Oh, about saying I had had enough when I was 14, the nonstop criticism, the way he treated us like dirt, was hardly ever there, the horrible way he treated my mother. He was abusive, make no mistake about that. His brothers treated their families the same way and made a big point of being charming to everyone else.
I gave you the short version. The relationship was gone. His getting married and not telling us was the last straw and I could not take any more. I think I had a right to get away. Was he sad? No .So I disagree with your rather brutal evaluation RyanX. You were not there, so think on .
The reason he needs me now? Appearances and to look after the kids, who incidentally also feel uncomfortable around him. No more.
Oh, and everyone who knew me at the time agrees he damaged us badly.

 

[anart]

Oh, about saying I had had enough when I was 14, the nonstop criticism, the way he treated us like dirt, was hardly ever there, the horrible way he treated my mother. He was abusive, make no mistake about that. His brothers treated their families the same way and made a big point of being charming to everyone else.
I gave you the short version. The relationship was gone. His getting married and not telling us was the last straw and I could not take any more. I think I had a right to get away. Was he sad? No .So I disagree with your rather brutal evaluation RyanX. You were not there, so think on .
The reason he needs me now? Appearances and to look after the kids, who incidentally also feel uncomfortable around him. No more.
Oh, and everyone who knew me at the time agrees he damaged us badly.

cassandra, it might help you to go back and read your posts as if someone else wrote them.

What do you think this person is really saying?

Can you see that she sounds rather like a young child who is upset because she's not getting what she wants from someone else? Can you see that her world tends to revolve around her? Can you see that while she says she's working on self-importance, that everything she's written in this thread is incredibly self-important - that if the man who impregnated her mother can't make her feel 'interesting', then she takes him away from everyone else in her family?

Can you see this? Can you - for one moment - try to look at this from outside yourself? You are no longer that little girl who was bratty to her father and told him she never wanted to see him again. You are an adult - and it's not your father's job to make you feel 'interesting'. I really think you might truly benefit from stopping your current thought process on this and looking at it in an entirely different way. That was then - this is now.

 

[Matt]

Hi Matt,

FWIW, I think you're doing an awful lot of projecting here which reflects more on your own situation than of being of any practical value for cassandra. There's nothing wrong with discussing your personal experiences with your family, but it might be best to do it in a separate thread instead of offering these experiences as advise. I'm not sure if you have a good grasp of family issues based on what you've posted here.

That seems correct. Apologies for causing all the noise and derailing the thread, I'll make sure to be more careful about these matters.

 

[DianaRose]

Hey Cassandra!!

Well, I know your father hurt you in the past, but I think you should move on. Forget about this teenage girl who wanted to get attention from her father and didn't get so became bitter and let the grown up woman that you become and who cares about the well being of her familly shine.
I don't think your father even tried intentionally to hurt you, I think it is more something that have been "installed" in him. You said it yourself his brothers did the same with their famillies.
Maybe by trying to change your perspective on your father, you may be able to improve your relation with him and clean your machine at the same time. For a moment forget about what you want and try to think about what he wants, try to see him, try to look at his life story and understand why did he become the man that he became.
And perhaps maybe the one that see you as boring, plain is yourself. I say this because it is something that happen with me, quite a lot actually. I somewhat project my own insecurities into others. For example I at time feel stupid, worthless, and I think that people think that of me. But then I realize that they actually don't.

Good Luck

 

[mkrnhr]

I don't think it's about forgetting anything, it's about putting things into perspective and understanding what happened then, and what happens now.