Should you "out" a Sociopath? Help please!

venusian said:
This could be a good opportunity for you to examine why you want to 'out' your son. If you are like most of us, especially given that there is likely a history of conflict with your family member, there are probably many threads of complicated motivators running loose in there. The emotional ones are the most potentially dangerous to act on (for you), IMHO. In any event, since you quite likely may unleash a firestorm of attack against you should you decide to proceed in an 'outing', it might be best to take some time and inform yourself as much as possible, examine your motives deeply, and prepare a solid strategy which includes protecting yourself before deciding to do anything. It might be worth considering that even if you succeed in outing him this time, what about the next time, and the time after that?

Great reply.

My motivation is frustration at knowing he is potentially destroying someone’s life BUT as I said in my original post, I am convoluted in "outing" him since that means I perhaps help one lady and then he moves on to harm the next one.

To me it's a moral question, you know what he is doing to someone, do you tell? But no matter what I do, I will 2nd guess myself.

Well guys & gals, I am no closer to an answer so I will just continue to let it go and hope for the best as Venusian is right, what about the next time, etc
 
PS: Thanks much to all of you who read and provided an opinion - very much appreciated, especially Venusian.
 
Hi CurtisL,

Just so you are aware, Gandalf's welcome message is the same message everyone gets if they post before introducing themselves. The introduction merely helps us understand a bit about who you are, how you came to this forum and your level of familiarity with Laura's writing and the many topics researched and discussed on the forum. You can read through the many newbie introductions to get a feel for what others write.

After you post the introduction, you will undoubtedly be inundated with welcomes from many of the forum's members and you will also be given more information about the forum, including suggested reading, in case you find yourself interested in ongoing participation in the forum. Don't worry about your "bio" not being sufficiently impressive. The forum's membership spans all levels of knowledge and experience.

In the pursuit of an objective understanding of our reality, topics on this forum often deal with the psychological, physical and spiritual aspects of the human condition, including esoteric mysteries. It is an interesting place with a friendly and caring community, where knowledge and experiences are shared for the benefit of all.

With respect to outing a potential sociopath or psychopath...

CurtisL said:
Bar Kochba said:
If you were to tell her about him, she most likely would not believe you, as was already pointed out. AND, she would most likely tell HIM what you tried to do, which most likely would turn his attention to YOU. And you do not want that. There may be people fully equipped to deal with sociopaths, but rarely do they bnme out of the situation umscathed. And if you are not equipped, then... You wont know what hit you. FWIW

I wish to reiterate that if I were to "out" him, it would be anonymous (via email) and I would only provide information that he did not serve in the Marines like she believes and that might start the process for her to get out of the relationship.

Also, I am not worried about him turning his attention to me at all as he has intentionally removed himself from ALL family because he is pretending to be someone his entire family knows he is not.

He would just take this as a learning experience (if he figures out how someone outed him) and quit posting on social media sites and probably make his next girlfriend/wife/victim also stay off such sites.

I think it would be dangerous to assume that he would not turn his attention on you. One thing I've learned about pathological types is that they may make it their life's work to destroy anyone who gets in their way or threatens their plans. You would have to imagine it from their perspective, which is quite difficult if you don't have a pathological mind. However, if such a person has a plan to deceive, they will inject every ounce of their energy into maintaining the deception. For them, the deception is their current focus and they will put their all into executing their plan of deception. Since they are overly confident, they do not make a backup plan because they do not consider failure as a possible outcome.

If anything interferes with their plan, they will react as if their very life is being threatened but they will also add to their reactive energy their anger and resentment. Their sense of self righteousness allows them to justify their actions without any regard for anyone else. And if they do not know who is behind the perceived threat, they will make it their life's ambition to discover who is behind it, including tracing back on Internet traffic to pinpoint the origin of the "anonymous" email or web posting or finding someone who can, if they do not possess such skill. You are never as invisible on the Internet as you would like to be. There would be no greater motivation for them than to seek and destroy those who they feel are trying to destroy them.

I also think it dangerous to imagine he will somehow learn a lesson. Do you have any evidence from past behaviour to indicate he learns anything that does not fit within his view of how things should be in the world? The only lessons they seem to learn, from what I understand, is how to be a better sociopath or psychopath.

Although I completely understand why you would want to help someone avoid being his victim, and perhaps be driven also by a desire to shame him into change, I fear you are playing with fire and want to stress how dangerous the approach you are consider might actually be. Since there's a good possibility that your end goals would not be met, and that you run the risk of drawing his negative attention and actions towards you and your family, it seems to me like it would be better to leave him alone and accept his rejection of you and the family. As well, it might make sense to stop looking for whatever he posts on the Internet as it will only continue to make you want to react. Part of accepting his rejection might involve letting go of your interest in him.

Respectfully,
Gonzo
 
Gonzo said:
Hi CurtisL,

Just so you are aware, Gandalf's welcome message is the same message everyone gets if they post before introducing themselves. The introduction merely helps us understand a bit about who you are, how you came to this forum and your level of familiarity with Laura's writing and the many topics researched and discussed on the forum. You can read through the many newbie introductions to get a feel for what others write.

After you post the introduction, you will undoubtedly be inundated with welcomes from many of the forum's members and you will also be given more information about the forum, including suggested reading, in case you find yourself interested in ongoing participation in the forum. Don't worry about your "bio" not being sufficiently impressive. The forum's membership spans all levels of knowledge and experience.

In the pursuit of an objective understanding of our reality, topics on this forum often deal with the psychological, physical and spiritual aspects of the human condition, including esoteric mysteries. It is an interesting place with a friendly and caring community, where knowledge and experiences are shared for the benefit of all.

With respect to outing a potential sociopath or psychopath...

CurtisL said:
Bar Kochba said:
If you were to tell her about him, she most likely would not believe you, as was already pointed out. AND, she would most likely tell HIM what you tried to do, which most likely would turn his attention to YOU. And you do not want that. There may be people fully equipped to deal with sociopaths, but rarely do they bnme out of the situation umscathed. And if you are not equipped, then... You wont know what hit you. FWIW

I wish to reiterate that if I were to "out" him, it would be anonymous (via email) and I would only provide information that he did not serve in the Marines like she believes and that might start the process for her to get out of the relationship.

Also, I am not worried about him turning his attention to me at all as he has intentionally removed himself from ALL family because he is pretending to be someone his entire family knows he is not.

He would just take this as a learning experience (if he figures out how someone outed him) and quit posting on social media sites and probably make his next girlfriend/wife/victim also stay off such sites.

I think it would be dangerous to assume that he would not turn his attention on you. One thing I've learned about pathological types is that they may make it their life's work to destroy anyone who gets in their way or threatens their plans. You would have to imagine it from their perspective, which is quite difficult if you don't have a pathological mind. However, if such a person has a plan to deceive, they will inject every ounce of their energy into maintaining the deception. For them, the deception is their current focus and they will put their all into executing their plan of deception. Since they are overly confident, they do not make a backup plan because they do not consider failure as a possible outcome.

If anything interferes with their plan, they will react as if their very life is being threatened but they will also add to their reactive energy their anger and resentment. Their sense of self righteousness allows them to justify their actions without any regard for anyone else. And if they do not know who is behind the perceived threat, they will make it their life's ambition to discover who is behind it, including tracing back on Internet traffic to pinpoint the origin of the "anonymous" email or web posting or finding someone who can, if they do not possess such skill. You are never as invisible on the Internet as you would like to be. There would be no greater motivation for them than to seek and destroy those who they feel are trying to destroy them.

I also think it dangerous to imagine he will somehow learn a lesson. Do you have any evidence from past behaviour to indicate he learns anything that does not fit within his view of how things should be in the world? The only lessons they seem to learn, from what I understand, is how to be a better sociopath or psychopath.

Although I completely understand why you would want to help someone avoid being his victim, and perhaps be driven also by a desire to shame him into change, I fear you are playing with fire and want to stress how dangerous the approach you are consider might actually be. Since there's a good possibility that your end goals would not be met, and that you run the risk of drawing his negative attention and actions towards you and your family, it seems to me like it would be better to leave him alone and accept his rejection of you and the family. As well, it might make sense to stop looking for whatever he posts on the Internet as it will only continue to make you want to react. Part of accepting his rejection might involve letting go of your interest in him.

Respectfully,
Gonzo

Wow, I am so glad I found this place – your reply Gonzo is great and gives me more to think about.

After coming to the conclusion that I will not do anything to “out” him and I will stay away from even monitoring his behavior, I have another issue then that needs to be contemplated.

I have a son that is getting married within the next 2 years (no date set) and he told me that he wants to invite his estranged brother to the wedding and my wife agrees. He also has not heard nor talked to him for years but I am sure there is sadness in his heart for his older brother.

I told them awhile back that “he” has made it quite clear that he wants nothing to do with us, we know he is living a lie pretending to be someone he is not and that it would not be wise to send him an invitation as that may lead him to be “outed” as I can’t fathom what story he has told his current wife about his upbringing and family if she somehow intercepts his mail. Remember, he told an earlier girlfriend he was raised by an Uncle in Texas when he actually was raised by his 2 parents in Ohio.

So if we all agree it’s best to leave him alone, doesn’t that include normal actions such as inviting someone to a wedding?

I think my wife and my son just think it is appropriate since it would be considered rude if he was not invited but as Gonzo and Venusian said, it could be dangerous.

Thanks again for all your input.
 
PS to Gonzo:

I am way past thinking I wish to shame him or change him as I am convinced he is indeed a sociopath and after all my research, I sadly realize that really can't be cured. I just hope and pray he doesn't do anything criminal or physically harm someone.
 
CurtisL said:
PS to Gonzo:

I am way past thinking I wish to shame him or change him as I am convinced he is indeed a sociopath and after all my research, I sadly realize that really can't be cured. I just hope and pray he doesn't do anything criminal or physically harm someone.

Maybe you could suggest in a subtle way to your son and your wife to read the book of Martha Stout, and the book "Women Who Love Psychopaths" by Sandra Brown.
 
Gandalf said:
CurtisL said:
PS to Gonzo:

I am way past thinking I wish to shame him or change him as I am convinced he is indeed a sociopath and after all my research, I sadly realize that really can't be cured. I just hope and pray he doesn't do anything criminal or physically harm someone.

Maybe you could suggest in a subtle way to your son and your wife to read the book of Martha Stout, and the book "Women Who Love Psychopaths" by Sandra Brown.

I shall heed your advise sir.
 
CurtisL said:
*advice*

You guys need an edit function!!!

Hi Curtis, I believe the edit function becomes available on your account once you have reached a certain number of posts. This is to protect against new users whom attack, say something, are called out on it, then edit the post to hide their actions (among other reasons).

Good luck on your journey of discovery, it is an interesting one as you've no doubt realised! :)
 
Gandalf said:
CurtisL said:
PS to Gonzo:

I am way past thinking I wish to shame him or change him as I am convinced he is indeed a sociopath and after all my research, I sadly realize that really can't be cured. I just hope and pray he doesn't do anything criminal or physically harm someone.

Maybe you could suggest in a subtle way to your son and your wife to read the book of Martha Stout, and the book "Women Who Love Psychopaths" by Sandra Brown.

I should say "Women Who Love Psychopaths" by Sandra Brown is a amazing book for protection. I couldn't believe what I was reading while reading this. This is about how victims are created from normal people with amazing precision with no choice of escape .
 
I think there is a good chance that even if he got invited to the wedding, he wouldn't come, considering all sociopaths have no emotional attachments to anyone ever. Considering he would have to pay for whatever it would cost him financially to travel and buy a gift, there would have to be something significant in it for him. I'm pretty sure my father is a sociopath, and he didn't come to my wedding. He didn't come to his own son's funeral either. Since he sociopaths don't care, they aren't going to do anything that they won't get some sort of reward from. And they get rewards from causing misery, so to be abandoned, is actually a blessing in disguise.
 
CurtisL said:
Gandalf said:
CurtisL said:
PS to Gonzo:

I am way past thinking I wish to shame him or change him as I am convinced he is indeed a sociopath and after all my research, I sadly realize that really can't be cured. I just hope and pray he doesn't do anything criminal or physically harm someone.

Maybe you could suggest in a subtle way to your son and your wife to read the book of Martha Stout, and the book "Women Who Love Psychopaths" by Sandra Brown.

I shall heed your advise sir.

I also think this might be a useful strategy, to probe and see if your family members will be interested in educating themselves about these types of people.
 
rylek said:
CurtisL said:
Gandalf said:
CurtisL said:
PS to Gonzo:

I am way past thinking I wish to shame him or change him as I am convinced he is indeed a sociopath and after all my research, I sadly realize that really can't be cured. I just hope and pray he doesn't do anything criminal or physically harm someone.

Maybe you could suggest in a subtle way to your son and your wife to read the book of Martha Stout, and the book "Women Who Love Psychopaths" by Sandra Brown.

I shall heed your advise sir.

I also think this might be a useful strategy, to probe and see if your family members will be interested in educating themselves about these types of people.

... and if not don't "push" it. (external consideration)
 

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