Show #3, Feb. 3rd 2013: Are Psychopaths Cool? Uncovering the predators among us

[seek10]

Nice show. I enjoyed laura intro and conversation after that. very spirited show.

 

[Niall]

One thing - but it's a big topic - not addressed which I thought of in connection with the discussion of how psychopaths view themselves in relation to other people, is what Lobaczewski wrote in Ponerology, that they view normal people as being close to insane - and in a certain sense barely understandable - and see us as a danger.

[...]

Then - and not wholly unrelated - there is the "schock doctrine" and the ways it is applied to manage the population.

I had these two things marked in my notes, but didn't remember to mention them.

Researchers and medical professionals are misunderstanding the problem when they seek cures for psychopathy. Psychopaths want to cure us too!

They cannot and do not want to be fixed, cured or punished. They don’t consider themselves ill to begin with. That begs the questions; is ‘psycho-path’, as in someone with a pathology or disease of the mind/brain, even the correct objective term to be using? Leading expert on psychopathology Dr. Robert Hare has defined them as humanity’s “intra-species predator.” This suggests that the issue is not really a medical one, and not exclusively a psychological one. Lobaczewski himself describes in the opening chapters of Ponerology that he needed to bring in concepts from the field of biology to explain what psychopaths are and their effects on society. So are we really talking about a completely different species here?

Ordinary people are primed towards truth, community and trust. Psychopaths are motivated away from these things towards power over others. It is not that they are secretly harbouring desires to be integrated into society as normal functioning human beings – NO! They proactively seek to abuse, rob, rape, hurt and kill others. And they derive satisfaction from it.

Now, does that sound like a ‘disease’? Or does it sound more like a different, biologically-speaking, non-human species?

While most of those few who are studying the issue of psychopaths at large are focused on curing them, psychopaths in power have been very busy – and for a long time – with their divide-and-conquer strategies. Lobaczewski has written that they view US as the ones who need to be cured of our ‘weird emotions’.

This is why they conduct ‘economic shock therapy’ on a global scale. Naomi Klein’s The Shock Doctrine is a chilling read about the way in which ideology is developed in the minds of conscienceless people in academia, government and corporate board rooms, then applied in ruthless fashion on whole countries.

'Psychopaths in power' affects just about everything, and there's so much more to say about it, so we'll no doubt be bringing it up again. Thanks to everyone who listened in, your support means a lot to us!

 

[Yas]

Excellent show and subject!



I guess all of us will be waiting for what you said to be a good subject for another Talk Show: "The influence of psychopathy in human evolution/culture"... ;D

One thing - but it's a big topic - not addressed which I thought of in connection with the discussion of how psychopaths view themselves in relation to other people, is what Lobaczewski wrote in Ponerology, that they view normal people as being close to insane - and in a certain sense barely understandable - and see us as a danger.

[...]

Then - and not wholly unrelated - there is the "schock doctrine" and the ways it is applied to manage the population.

I had these two things marked in my notes, but didn't remember to mention them.

Researchers and medical professionals are misunderstanding the problem when they seek cures for psychopathy. Psychopaths want to cure us too!

They cannot and do not want to be fixed, cured or punished. They don’t consider themselves ill to begin with. That begs the questions; is ‘psycho-path’, as in someone with a pathology or disease of the mind/brain, even the correct objective term to be using? Leading expert on psychopathology Dr. Robert Hare has defined them as humanity’s “intra-species predator.” This suggests that the issue is not really a medical one, and not exclusively a psychological one. Lobaczewski himself describes in the opening chapters of Ponerology that he needed to bring in concepts from the field of biology to explain what psychopaths are and their effects on society. So are we really talking about a completely different species here?

Ordinary people are primed towards truth, community and trust. Psychopaths are motivated away from these things towards power over others. It is not that they are secretly harbouring desires to be integrated into society as normal functioning human beings – NO! They proactively seek to abuse, rob, rape, hurt and kill others. And they derive satisfaction from it.

Now, does that sound like a ‘disease’? Or does it sound more like a different, biologically-speaking, non-human species?

While most of those few who are studying the issue of psychopaths at large are focused on curing them, psychopaths in power have been very busy – and for a long time – with their divide-and-conquer strategies. Lobaczewski has written that they view US as the ones who need to be cured of our ‘weird emotions’.

This is why they conduct ‘economic shock therapy’ on a global scale. Naomi Klein’s The Shock Doctrine is a chilling read about the way in which ideology is developed in the minds of conscienceless people in academia, government and corporate board rooms, then applied in ruthless fashion on whole countries.

'Psychopaths in power' affects just about everything, and there's so much more to say about it, so we'll no doubt be bringing it up again. Thanks to everyone who listened in, your support means a lot to us!

I was left thinking about this and you put it in a very clear way.

I thought that maybe, as it is empathy that allows us to 'put ourselves in the other's shoes', so to say, meaning that it allows us to at least try deduce how things could be for another person, and since they lack this empathy... they cannot imagine how we actually feel or think or whatever, yet, by observing our behaviour and reactions they can know how to manipulate us, just as a lion will observe its prey before going after it... In this case, they will not be aware of themselves as 'sick' (they can't be able to really 'compare themselves' as they cannot even 'imagine' how it would be to have a conscience), just as the lion is not 'sick' because it goes after the prey... Now, by no means I want to 'justify' what psychopaths do... Is just that, as you say, talking as if they are actually another species, they are not 'sick' but that is simply their intrinsic nature. Also, if we say that it is a disease, it means that it can be cured... If we say that it is their intrinsic nature, it can't be cured, or changed... They are what they are and what we have to do is to be aware of them so that we don't become their preys...

In this aspect, the show also left me thinking of the importance of self-knoledge as protection (yes, I know you all know this: Knowledge protects!)
The more we know ourselves, about feeding dynamics and the way our mind works, we are less likely to become a psychopath prey, because their games usually consist in playing with our own mechanical behaviour, our programs, our 'issues'... such as lack of self-confidence, insecurities, etc. And of course, as we know, a lot of this comes from education and how we grow, so this gets us t WHY it is so important for them to ponerize the society so that we will be constantly traumatized and less likely to be self-aware... In this way they can assure that we are going to continue being preys. (not mentioning all the distraction industry, the narcotic food they promote... etc.) Yes... They affect 'just about everything'... :/

I think it was you who said at one point something like "We are the ones who have to change, because they just won't change"... with other words, of course... ;)

Another thing that I found was this article about Kevin Dutton's book which I think is a very good example of making psychopaths appear 'cool' and 'not so bad':

The title says it all: Unlock Your Inner Psychopath: Kevin Dutton’s ‘The Wisdom of Psychopaths’
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/19/unlock-your-inner-psychopath-kevin-dutton-s-the-wisdom-of-psychopaths.html

In one part it says:

The book delves into the science of psychopathy with the hope of uncovering how we can all improve our lives by unlocking our inner Ted Bundy (you too can be a psychopath!). And while such a “Chicken Soup for the Soulless” literary aim might seem macabre, first consider that the trademarks of this condition—coolness under pressure, determination in the face of adversity, bulletproof self-confidence, and easy social charm, to name a few—are all characteristics that we strive to acquire, at least to some degree.

Well... I hope my post isn't too messy... I just wanted to share some thoughts about this great show...

Thanks a lot and keep broadcasting!

 

[jasstnhawk]

Another insightful, in-depth and informative show from the SOTT/Cass team! Thank you Joe, Niall, Harrison, Jason and Laura!

I too had several pages of notes at the end of the show. The show was well organized in that within a mere two hours (+), y'all cited all the pertinent information/sources needed for anyone seeking to educate themselves on psychopathy. I especially loved the ending quote from 'The Bad Seed' by William March

In the first place, good people are rarely suspicious; they cannot imagine others doing the things they themselves are incapable of doing; usually they accept the undramatic conclusion as the correct one, and let matters rest there. Then, too, the normal are inclined to view the multiple killer as the as the one who’s as monstrous in appearance as he is in mind, which is about as far from the truth as one could well get. He paused and then said that these monsters of real life usually looked and behaved in a more normal manner than their actually normal brothers and sisters: they presented a more convincing picture of virtue than virtue presented of itself—just as the wax rosebud or the plastic peach seemed more perfect to the eye, more what the mind thought a rosebud or a peach should be than the imperfect original from which it had been modeled.

I also want to thank Lisa for sharing her personal experience with psychopaths. Her experiences were quite moving and 'brought home' (personalized) the topic of psychopathy. to you Lisa.

 

[Redrock12]

Great show guys and Laura. Lots of valuable information about psychopathy.
Also thanks to Betsy and Lisa for their input.

 

[dugdeep]

I just finished listening since I couldn't listen live today.
Another great show! Thanks so much for this very valuable information.

These subjects might perhaps fit if, as a follow-up topic on some occasion, you choose a more detailed study of what psychopaths do to "manage" the population when in power in a society - not just the obvious political acts, the power grabs, violations, atrocities and so on and so forth - the destructive "fun" - but the design and purpose behind many things done. (As an aside, there' also the question of who comes up with the more complex things used to manage populations: Are essential psychopaths capable of thinking of all these things, or do they first need more "clever" schizoidal types to do it for them before taking them and running with them? As appears to have happened with "education".)

This is something I've been thinking about lately too. On the one hand you've got the psychopaths that don't really have any level of self awareness, as was spoken about today on the show when Joe asked whether or not they actually know what they are. They're just reaction machines without any real ability to plan out elaborate schemes, but simply keep their masks in place until they see an opportunity (or create opportunities). But on the other hand you've got things like the Protocols which show a level of cunning, control and deception that can hardly be imagined. It was kind of touched on in the first show, too, when Jason said that he didn't think there was any wider conspiracy going on, that psychopaths just do what they do (sorry if I'm off on my paraphrasing here). I'm not sure which side of the line I fall on this topic. Could be something to explore further on another show.

 

[Turgon]

Another fantastic show! I wanted to call in to ask a few burning questions but I was a bit nervous and I believe Laura ended up answering most of those questions and then some that really had me thinking. One of the bigger ones was the psychopathy checklist that sometimes I've noticed in myself to exhibit from time to time and that I see in other 'normal' people and really wondered about. Is that at an indication of a pornerized or pathological mindset or a possible subset of psychopathy, but the idea that psychopath's have taken much of these behavioural traits (say superficial charm) and used it for their own advantage solely, and that intrinsically at their core they are empty without remorse or any self-reflection when acting in these manners really helped to bring that concept home for me.

Also, the pathological persistence of troll's on the internet by Jason really made me laugh and gave a pause for an aha moment. I've been known to be a bit antagonistic at times, pushing peoples buttons for kicks - I don't do this anymore, but often did when I was younger - but him bringing up this point of this almost obsessive, non-stop persistence without pause or reflection to this type of behaviour as being a clear indication was another great moment in the show taking what could be a complex topic and helping even laymen's learn and understand the differences between the two.

Now I don't mean to say superficial charm or a lack of regard for the well-being of other's as being normal - but that many people who aren't psychopath's act like this at certain times and either don't see what they are doing or don't want to acknowledge it at some capacity. Anyway's, I think I'm digressing a bit.

Either way, thanks for putting this together! Once all the back and forth discussion gets going between hosts, guests and callers start's grooving I find I don't want to leave the computer even for a second.

 

[Turgon]

I just finished listening since I couldn't listen live today.
Another great show! Thanks so much for this very valuable information.

These subjects might perhaps fit if, as a follow-up topic on some occasion, you choose a more detailed study of what psychopaths do to "manage" the population when in power in a society - not just the obvious political acts, the power grabs, violations, atrocities and so on and so forth - the destructive "fun" - but the design and purpose behind many things done. (As an aside, there' also the question of who comes up with the more complex things used to manage populations: Are essential psychopaths capable of thinking of all these things, or do they first need more "clever" schizoidal types to do it for them before taking them and running with them? As appears to have happened with "education".)

This is something I've been thinking about lately too. On the one hand you've got the psychopaths that don't really have any level of self awareness, as was spoken about today on the show when Joe asked whether or not they actually know what they are. They're just reaction machines without any real ability to plan out elaborate schemes, but simply keep their masks in place until they see an opportunity (or create opportunities). But on the other hand you've got things like the Protocols which show a level of cunning, control and deception that can hardly be imagined. It was kind of touched on in the first show, too, when Jason said that he didn't think there was any wider conspiracy going on, that psychopaths just do what they do (sorry if I'm off on my paraphrasing here). I'm not sure which side of the line I fall on this topic. Could be something to explore further on another show.

I've been mulling over that too. If psychopath's don't have any real ability of foresight then how did the Protocol's come into play - because if you've read them pretty much all the plans laid out in that book have come to pass to a very large extent in society. I was also thinking that since the consensus seems to be that Zionists laid out this framework and the C's indicated that roughly half the population of Israel are psychopathic in nature it leads me to the conclusion that it was written by psychopath's - but that doesn't jive with the whole inability for foresight. But the idea of schizoidal types being at the centre of it and then it trickling towards other essential psychopath's who carry it out because it fits in with their MO of domination and control might actually be the case.

 

[Voyageur]

[quote author=Acid Yazz ]

Another thing that I found was this article about Kevin Dutton's book which I think is a very good example of making psychopaths appear 'cool' and 'not so bad':

The title says it all: Unlock Your Inner Psychopath: Kevin Dutton’s ‘The Wisdom of Psychopaths’
_http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/19/unlock-your-inner-psychopath-kevin-dutton-s-the-wisdom-of-psychopaths.html

[/quote]

You may also want to check out what Martha Stout has to say about this book linked above, which was featured on SotT here.

[quote author=Kniall]

Researchers and medical professionals are misunderstanding the problem when they seek cures for psychopathy. Psychopaths want to cure us too!

They cannot and do not want to be fixed, cured or punished. They don’t consider themselves ill to begin with. That begs the questions; is ‘psycho-path’, as in someone with a pathology or disease of the mind/brain, even the correct objective term to be using? Leading expert on psychopathology Dr. Robert Hare has defined them as humanity’s “intra-species predator.” This suggests that the issue is not really a medical one, and not exclusively a psychological one. Lobaczewski himself describes in the opening chapters of Ponerology that he needed to bring in concepts from the field of biology to explain what psychopaths are and their effects on society. So are we really talking about a completely different species here?

Think that was very astute of Lobaczewski to seek answers in biology (e.g. "So are we really talking about a completely different species here?)

...It is not that they are secretly harbouring desires to be integrated into society as normal functioning human beings – NO! They proactively seek to abuse, rob, rape, hurt and kill others. And they derive satisfaction from it.

Now, does that sound like a ‘disease’? Or does it sound more like a different, biologically-speaking, non-human species?

And as they "want to cure us too", bankrupting societies, playing on our social morals, sending people into the trenches to fight their concocted battles, using people up in work, setting normal people against each other, yes, seems they not only want to cure us, they want to rid themselves of normal humans and cause enough feeding in the process.

[...]

This is why they conduct ‘economic shock therapy’ on a global scale. Naomi Klein’s The Shock Doctrine is a chilling read about the way in which ideology is developed in the minds of conscienceless people in academia, government and corporate board rooms, then applied in ruthless fashion on whole countries.

[/quote]

This "economic shock therapy" is done not only from our governance structures, it is personified from the relatively new constructs of corporations in Law, along with the commercial (ever changing) laws set up to guild them. Although these are just empty skeletons of commerce, they sure seem like the laws that govern them and many who take control of them, have found their perfect niche to carry out their societal cures with near immunity and without detection; in fact, it seems many of these CEO types, along with their authoritarian followers, including the corporate constructs themselves, are worshiped by many.

What makes in difficult too, is that so many normal people make their livings under these corporate roofs and are grateful to have a job, not always understanding what is going on way above them (not all corporations or those that head them are like this, yet they have the potentials given the ponerization process). The film, 'The Corporation' offers a gimps of the mechanisms of some of these which can be further read about in this forum thread.

Really thought you all did a wonderful job today within such a huge subject of importance.

 

[Gwenllian]

I also thought it was a wonderful show.
I did find it hard to follow what Jason was saying sometimes, because he seemed to be moving away from the mic?
And Laura, you did have the best microphone... I heard you loud and clear. :D ;)

I also thought Lisa's account was really moving and I loved Betsy's for "her" psychopath Obama. That was also an excellent example.

WRT education. I can see how the psychopaths in Europe do their level best to oppose home education. I am sure that these movements/communities have been infiltrated in some countries. I think that homeschooling is a great threat to the intra-species predators and they are trying with all their might to rob parents and their kids of their rights, using all the dirty tricks in the book.
In The Netherlands we have some very sad cases where kids are being destroyed, simply because they have drive and passion and do not fit the system. Think the kids that are sailing around the world and that have been hounded by the bureaucracy. They have threatened the two brothers/sailing experts that have fled Holland with admission in a psychiatric clinic. These people are ruthless.

I was wondering. Are there any psychopaths that are not charming and glib? I know someone who is not at all charming and who stutters and still seems to be able to woo vulnerable women. It seems to me that this person seems to take advantage of his clumsy appearance, because women still flock to him. Maybe that is why some people underestimate him, but he turns out to be a formidable opponent.

 

[Psalehesost]

I was wondering. Are there any psychopaths that are not charming and glib?

Well, at any rate there are some who are not charming. Dick Cheney would be an example.

 

[Joe]

Great show going on! Just to let you know, there appear to be a few technical problems. The first time I called, the call was dropped when I hit "1" and I've had to reload the radio show twice.

It is probably due to a LOT of Internet Superbowl traffic. Facebook and Google are having issues at well.

Yeah, I've been having problems this whole weekend with a variety of sites - including BTR loading slowly.

Great show guys, thanks! I tried to post a question in the comments and it seemed like it went through but I don't think it ever showed up on the page. Do you guys check the comments during the show?

Yeah, we get those messages to our email account, and I wasn't checking them last night, but we will be from now on.

 

[cassandra]

Once again, great show! I thought it was great that Laura joined in. Unless I missed something, this wasn't planned, was it?
Could we knock up some flyers for the show? I would make it my mission to distribute them all over town and send them to friends far and wide to do the same.

 

[aragorn]

Thanks again for an excellent show!

One minor wish: would it be possible for Jason to be closer to the microphone? There were a couple of moments when it was hard to hear what he was saying(the voices of the others were crystal clear, all the time)

 

[Laura]

Thanks again for an excellent show!

One minor wish: would it be possible for Jason to be closer to the microphone? There were a couple of moments when it was hard to hear what he was saying(the voices of the others were crystal clear, all the time)

That's because Mr. Scott turned his mic down ...