Sleep paradox

The distinctions I make may be subtle, but I don't think they are "not too big a deal". As I've described, there have been some issues I simply could NOT work out until I went through sleep deprivation. I might say this is debilitating. If I were to get sleep regularly like normal, I would lose my mental flexibility and not be as compassionate. It seems to help me see reality.

Maybe this is as simple as widely varying insulin and energy crisis as described in the low-carb threads. I am very young, so perhaps my body switches over to Ketosis during exhaustion. Is this possible?
 
monotonic said:
Maybe this is as simple as widely varying insulin and energy crisis as described in the low-carb threads. I am very young, so perhaps my body switches over to Ketosis during exhaustion. Is this possible?

That seems unlikely unless you avoid eating carbs for 8 hours or so....then it would only 'start to switch over'. osit

What seems likely (from what I've learnt about how the body works) is you are spiking your adrenalin by staying up late, this will also spike your insulin levels (release lots of instant energy to deal with the 'crysis' you are creating). Some people choose coffee for the same insulin spike, or rollercoaster rides for the same sort of adrenalin spike. It makes you feel alive, you can think clearly, everything is brighter.......then you crash.

It may be beneficial to consider why it is you can not think this sharply all the time (having been on the paleo diet for some months now, I can say that I Can now think that sharply most of the time), rather than arguing for sleep deprivation as a means to an end.

When I was younger I use to do the same as yourself, I'd work best at night (up late with loud music). Snacking on sugary things....
I paid for it with my health. Possible adrenal fatigue, slowly loosing the ability to get up in the morning, depression, insomnia, fatigue and brain fog that got worse the more I stayed up late at night.....so I needed to stay up later and later. Eventually staying up late didn't work any more (eating more sugary things helped...for a while).
I ended with burnout and depression and exhaustion, unable to get up in the morning or go to sleep at the proper time. Makes it kind of hard to hold down a job or go to school!

I knew people at university that did the same and continued to do so for years.....they may even be able to get away with it until there 40's. But it catches up eventually, because you are not meant to burn the adrenals like that or spike your insulin so much. Diabetes, hypertension and chronic debilitating exhaustion are the likely results of long term spiking....
But I'm no doctor, so don't take my word for it and check the research yourself.

So like I say....ever wondered why it is you can't be 'sharp'/empathic/on top form during the entire day (like nature intended)???
Something to consider, or not.
 
I am not arguing for sleep deprivation (maybe you should read my posts, before responding to them). However like you say, my thinking should be best while I am well-rested and not the other way. I suppose I have been thinking about this backwards.

I don't eat sugar or junk food unless it's the only thing to eat. I still eat carbs though (but I don't binge).

During this state I don't feel energetic; it does not feel like a "second wind".

RedFox said:
...

rather than arguing for sleep deprivation as a means to an end.

...

Something to consider, or not.

These are insinuations you should reflect on. Very inconsiderate, and will scare sensitive people away from asking sincere questions. You are reading things into my posts, and then chiding me for them?

I said that I did not experience diet to matter much for this effect. However I realize that I won't know for sure until I am able to go on a strict diet, and I am going to read the information available to me. This was not immediately apparent to me because of how I started on the subject; admittedly it should have been obvious. I have been avoiding the subject of diet because my brother says there's nothing we can do right now, and I trust his judgment since he's been reading the diet and health info a lot.
 
I have been avoiding the subject of diet because my brother says there's nothing we can do right now, and I trust his judgment since he's been reading the diet and health info a lot.

That excerpt sounds bizarre to me, if I correctly understood it. I guess that a vast majority of the members who have read a lot of the diet and health section have realized that food was probably the most important cause of dis-ease, illness, bad sleep, disrupted digestion, negative emotions, fatigue etc. in their life and that a lot of change could/should be done asap.

I mean when you get the scientific proof that you're eating a poison that literally destroys your body and your mind, isn't a normal reaction to immediately stop taking this poison?

This being said everybody is free to eat whatever he wants.
 
monotonic said:
I am not arguing for sleep deprivation (maybe you should read my posts, before responding to them). However like you say, my thinking should be best while I am well-rested and not the other way. I suppose I have been thinking about this backwards.

I don't eat sugar or junk food unless it's the only thing to eat. I still eat carbs though (but I don't binge).

[....]

These are insinuations you should reflect on. Very inconsiderate, and will scare sensitive people away from asking sincere questions. You are reading things into my posts, and then chiding me for them?

It's actually much less expensive to eat quality food - no bread to buy, no processed food to buy, no grains to buy, no milk products to buy - it's been MUCH cheaper for me.

The fact of the matter is that if you straighten your diet out, you won't be so defensive and quick to take offense as you are right now. You're offended by feedback that wasn't offensive - that's what happens when the body/brain is ill due to eating crapola and getting no sleep. It's not rocket science, monotonic - it's plain, simple fact. If you argue for your limitations you get to keep them.
 
Belibaste said:
I mean when you get the scientific proof that you're eating a poison that literally destroys your body and your mind, isn't a normal reaction to immediately stop taking this poison?

It depends on what flavor of "normal." For someone who "only believes authorities" it wouldn't be a normal response. I am not only saying this after reading "The Authoritarians." I grew up in a pathological cult that taught us to distrust our own judgement, but a lot of what I encountered there is common today among the Religious Right. There is a whole 'nother "normal" out there. I am not saying it is healthy -- quite the opposite -- but I think it is important to be able to at least imagine oneself being in a different person's situation.
 
Maybe you guys don't understand. We usually buy many pounds of ground beef (not organic because it's too expensive), some celery, maybe a bag of carrots, and eggs when we go to town. We don't waste money on cereal anymore or milk, though my mother is soy allergic and she sometimes buys sugary things and junk food to make up for all the things she can't eat. We don't buy bread anymore either. We have several pounds of whole wheat left in our pantry that we occasionally make biscuits with; but usually we don't feel the need unless we've run out of beef. Every once in a while we buy a free range turkey. When times are tough we buy bags of garbonzo beans, and add them to everything else.

Our income is volatile and we buy things as we can afford them. Right now we are trying to buy several acres of land, so we won't need to pay rent.

Personally I'm always hungry, and always complaining about food. Everyone else gets along somehow without feeling hungry all the time. I hold back because if I were to eat the way I wanted, we would run out of food quicker.

I mean when you get the scientific proof that you're eating a poison that literally destroys your body and your mind, isn't a normal reaction to immediately stop taking this poison?

Of course no one wants to eat poison, but we have to eat SOMETHING. And making "sudden changes in diet" such as starving would be hysterical and against your advice, no? So this is superficial rhetoric and is not helpful. I was already advised not to make big changes until I knew what I was doing. It is a valid sentiment, but it is superficial when given as advice.

This being said everybody is free to eat whatever he wants.

And again this buffering. You are anticipating a negative reaction on my part, and trying to "head it off". This is not just "culture". In the Japanese game of "Go", it is considered rude to make a move which anticipates a mistake to be made by the other player. In any case the keyword is "anticipation", and the tunnel vision associated with it. Read chapter 23 of The Wave.

The fact of the matter is that if you straighten your diet out, you won't be so defensive and quick to take offense as you are right now. You're offended by feedback that wasn't offensive - that's what happens when the body/brain is ill due to eating crapola and getting no sleep. It's not rocket science, monotonic - it's plain, simple fact. If you argue for your limitations you get to keep them.

I don't see anything wrong with pointing out the problems with Redfox's post. What did I do wrong? I addressed his points. What I said was not nonsense. The parts of his post I quoted are insinuations just like I said, and he was a bit zealous. Am I wrong? Anyone off the street would accept these things as "culture", but it is not culture, it is personal issues on Redfox's part. There is no reason I should ignore what is plainly there. You'll notice I took a week to respond. It was not an impulsive act. I am sure I would respond the same way whether or not I was getting enough sleep.

I keep being told I'm arguing for bad diet and sleep deprivation. And as a result of this perception people seem to think nothing I say matters, and don't read my posts seriously. Everyone wants to give me advice, but don't want to read my posts seriously. The response seems to be "no, we are doing nothing wrong, it's YOUR fault because you're not eating right". Whatever happened to the Gurdjieff and pathology and self-consciousness you guys are on about?

YES, I want to think better and I think diet matters for that. My diet is NOT optimized, but of course it isn't because we are new to the game and can't do everything at once for lack of funds.
 
[quote author=monotonic]
I know that addictive behavior, empathy and the things I have described are all related to the quality of substances available to the brain, and so I think this may be a diet thing. But I don't know how to approach this.

Thoughts?[/quote]

If, as I understand it, serotonin is primarily produced in the abdomen and doesn't cross the brain-blood barrier, then I can conceive of how a state of exhaustion can both, mask the physical effects of the exhausted state and temporarily and actually (or apparently) appear to enhance the mental abilities. Maybe due to a temporary lessening of the very brain chemicals that might be causing the problem in the well-rested state.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that the nervous system surrounding the gut is one of the oldest denominators that most all multi-cellular organisms have in common. As a type of guidance center, it's very good at avoiding danger and finding food without becoming food and suchlike and I doubt anyone is aware of the full range of it's capabilities.

Although in the Wave, Laura doesn't use these exact words, one can get that this gut brain functions like a neural net which uses heuristics and a kind of fuzzy logic to map the environment around us to its simpler underpinnings via a specific sense of 'feeling/knowing'; probably like what mentation was constrained to for the early Neanderthals, though I'm not quite finished mapping my understanding of how symbolic thought interferes with or influences the non-language based (inductive) cognition.

Long story short, you may just have a basic neurochemical configuration that reverses the effects that others experience in the same situation. Sort of like how, to a non-ADD'er, stimulants have an "upper" effect, but to ADD'ers, stimulants have a calming effect. It all depends on the starting conditions.

I don't have your experience so I can't come up with any answer for you, but I do recommend that, no matter how you feel about what others have said about diet, maybe you could justify some kind of dietary change in order to experiment. At least you should be able to falsify the diet hypothesis, or not.

Personally, I'd be very interested in how that experiment goes. Paradox fascinates me. Thanks for sharing and good luck. :)


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Edit: addition for clarity of meaning
 
monotonic said:
I said that I did not experience diet to matter much for this effect. However I realize that I won't know for sure until I am able to go on a strict diet, and I am going to read the information available to me.

I think this is good. In the books, such as Primal Body Primal Mind, you will also be provided with links and ways of how to make the necessary changes in the cheapest way possible. Once you start to make the changes, and network, and keep looking around you will find the better options, money-wise. Also note that it is advised that people should first concentrate on gut healing for a long while, meaning, no soy/corn/gluten/casein etc. while taking gut healing supplements, but reading the Life Without Bread thread will help you understand this. Anyhow, good luck with your reading.
 
Bud said:
Maybe due to a temporary lessening of the very brain chemicals that might be causing the problem in the well-rested state.

This is my suspicion.

I realize I made some mistakes in this thread. I will take time to think before I will address them.
 
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