Stoning? Quick and Painless? (How to Read the Bible)

[Buddy]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

Thanks for those posts Laura. I really enjoy these analyses. I have read reply 10 and 12 several times and each time I read it I seem to be getting closer and closer to something, but I just can't quite put my finger on it.

It seems quite obvious now that the interest I mentioned in reply 13 is really all about wanting to totally understand/experience this lesson.

It's beginning to look like there may be a 'final step' that must be taken at some point in order to experience hyperdimensional realities. Something with some fear or dread accompanying it to some extent. Sort of like Don Juan's example of jumping off a cliff, trusting in the universe that you won't lose your consciousness or sense of being in the process.

Or maybe it is more like a major change of 'shape' of one's sense of self on the most fundamental level. The best way to describe my idea of this is to say something like...

whereas subjective perception is like looking thru a dirty window but not seeing the dirt because the grooves and patterns of the soil are the filters your consciousness shapes itself to in order to percieve what it expects to see; and

whereas direct perception is like a totally clean window that allows all your consciousness to flow thru undisturbed and perceive whatever is there;

full perception and understanding of the 'Kingdom of God within' teaching and/or the hyperdimensional realities would require/result in 'becoming' or 'blending with' that which is, independent of an individual self that would be 'in relationship' to that which is...or be 'opposed' to that which is.

I'm not really sure if this is the best way to describe what I'm trying to say, but at this point I do have a strong sense that that there is a step involved, of 'unbecoming' something which we have become very, very comfortable with and that will involve a great deal of trust/faith in the knowledge gained up to that point.

 

[Mountain Crown]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

It's beginning to look like there may be a 'final step' that must be taken at some point in order to experience hyperdimensional realities.

Or maybe it is more like a major change of 'shape' of one's sense of self on the most fundamental level.

whereas subjective perception is like looking thru a dirty window but not seeing the dirt because the grooves and patterns of the soil are the filters your consciousness shapes itself to in order to percieve what it expects to see; and

whereas direct perception is like a totally clean window that allows all your consciousness to flow thru undisturbed and perceive whatever is there;

full perception and understanding of the 'Kingdom of God within' teaching and/or the hyperdimensional realities would require/result in 'becoming' or 'blending with' that which is, independent of an individual self that would be 'in relationship' to that which is...or be 'opposed' to that which is.

This is very likely the meaning of Jesus teaching that a man must be born again.

 

[ana]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

Thanks for those posts Laura. I really enjoy these analyses.

Yes, thank you Laura

full perception and understanding of the 'Kingdom of God within' teaching and/or the hyperdimensional realities would require/result in 'becoming' or 'blending with' that which is,

That is how I see it also,
the purity of the vision should depend on the purity and cleanliness of the crystal that looks, ego will dirt the crystal with its own lies, essence on the contrary should see things as they are, essence as pure conscious is the eye and the vision, revealing itself again and again enjoying, knowing and loving the creation that comes from silence.

So maybe that is why it is so important what we see, as what we see will depend on whether we see with the essence(truth), or with the ego.

If we look with our essence, if we become essence we will see the essence of everything, that's is why the Cass say that STO can see the truth and STS can only see what they want to see.

So an STO being as I see it, is the awakening of God in its manifestation and the pure joy of recognition must be indescribable..

 

[Mountain Crown]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

Buddy and Pryf: very insightful posts, thank you.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

20:9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.

Who is it that planted the vineyard? Who are the "sharecroppers" that he rented it to? What does the "far country" represent? Are these even important elements?

Each parable or esoteric symbol works on multiple levels. This can be a slight retelling of the Golden Age myth, or the Hero's Journey, in both the universal and individual sense. The Cosmic Mind brings forth the material world; it "seeds" itself in matter; "dies" and descends into matter. It leaves behind the Golden Age of pure consciousness and limitless potential to become solid and limited. From the perspective of the material world the "creator" resides in a "far off country", i.e. in hyperdimensional realms. Individually, the soul seeds itself into lower density bodies. It plants a vineyard, i.e. a living structure of being that has the potential to bear "fruit". However, when consciousness does not rule matter, the effects of matter rule consciousness. The "ruler" or essence thus leaves its place on the throne and "husbandmen" take over: "Programs", false personality, social constructions, extrinsic determinants of behavior. But their time of rule is limited. They are only "renting" the vehicle which is truly the essence's, the higher self, true Consciousness.

The "servants" are like B-influences that are constantly ignored by the lower self, the "stone rejected". The stone rejected by the builders is "essence", and it is also the necessary ingredient in alchemy. B-influences are not recognized, and worse, they are seen as threatening, because they DO threaten the very survival of the false personality. Not only are B-influences rejected by the lower self, but those who embody higher principles, essence, are rejected by the masses of humanity. They are ridiculed, scorned, murdered, assassinated. The higher self cannot enter "this world" and can therefore neither bear true fruit nor collect what it was seeded to collect: a re-membrance of True Consciousness, of the Self which returns to its source after the journey of Matter. The Joy of Creation.

The husbandmen act in a way that Lobaczewski describes with the term "cui prodest". How can they possibly benefit from such behavior? They cannot. But their arrogance and narrow-mindedness blinds them to this fact. They are slaves to wishful thinking.

The story is a jab at the "rulers of this world" whether they be those who profit from (and thus promote) the materialistic, i.e. economic, structure of this world; or the genetically programmed stumbling blocks that we must battle with in ourselves.

 

[Laura]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

Very good, AI! A whole other - but related - interpretation.

The Stone: hyperdimensional realities, the essence of being, the messenger... the Holy Spirit... just a lovely little bit of rhetoric that demonstrates the really complex and abstract thinking that was going on back then.

 

[gaman]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

Thanks AI, that was very helpful and layed out in a way easy for me to understand. It also highlights the point that there can be several interpretations. But that raises the question, were they originally designed to be multi-layered with meaning esoterically? That is something that I started asking after reading Fulcanelli's cathedrals book and the mention that the book would mean entirely something else if you had reached a certain level and had certain knowledge and "keys".

Laura, thanks for the info on the "stone". I've also been puzzled by the "star", and also hunted (not diligently) in the past for the original meaning and symbolism of the cross as it is used so much in spiritual and religious circles. The meaning of the cross I learned growing up was from the Southern Baptist perspective. The one that I "like" the most so far is "cross out the I".

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

Thanks AI, that was very helpful and layed out in a way easy for me to understand. It also highlights the point that there can be several interpretations. But that raises the question, were they originally designed to be multi-layered with meaning esoterically? That is something that I started asking after reading Fulcanelli's cathedrals book and the mention that the book would mean entirely something else if you had reached a certain level and had certain knowledge and "keys".

I think they are intended to be multi-layered. For example, Gurdjieff stated repeatedly that his works were written in such a manner. When you grasp what he said about an "esoteric circle", that individuals who reach a certain level of being attain the same level of understanding, then you see that "there's nothing new under the sun". Just as highly developed individuals, like Gurdjieff, encode their wisdom in a "legomonism" capable of being passed through time, so they did in the past. It's the same with the cathedrals, with ancient myths, medieval emblems, etc. "Reading" symbols is a capacity of higher centers, and higher centers will read the correct meaning in any symbol, provided the necessary experience is present to give context (e.g. if you don't know what a lion is, you won't see how its qualities apply to different levels of being).

Laura, thanks for the info on the "stone". I've also been puzzled by the "star", and also hunted (not diligently) in the past for the original meaning and symbolism of the cross as it is used so much in spiritual and religious circles. The meaning of the cross I learned growing up was from the Southern Baptist perspective. The one that I "like" the most so far is "cross out the I".

Fulcanelli gives a great analysis of the star in Mystery of the Cathedrals. As Laura mentions in Secret History, it is a signpost of the Work, the inner light the adept perceives at a certain level. I also see the star as a symbolism of the ever closer approach of the higher self, the "personality ideal". It is both vibrant, "higher", and seemingly always out of reach of the seeker. But being always visible, it can become the "measure" by which one judges one's own actions and level of being, thus aiding in the esoteric ascent.

In reality, the "star" and "cross" symbolism probably both got their start from early observations of close encounters with giant comets. In alchemical tradition, one meaning of the cross was as a representation of matter. A snake pinned to the cross, or Jesus crucified represented the spirit bound to matter (matter being composed of the four elements, thus the cross).

 

[Breton]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

Thanks everyone for your contributions on this topic! It is very interesting to me and close to my heart due to the Christian influence in my life.

It is just this kind of analysis of scriptures that Laura, Buddy, AI are doing here that I would like to do myself, although I feel I am a little out of my league.

I have spent a lifetime sitting in sermons of a conservative (not fundamentalist, IMO) Christian belief system that I was raised in. A system that influenced every aspect of my life's decisions.

I have been able to get a pretty good idea of what is much more likely to be going on with my religion: the Cosmic Cointelpro through hyper dimensional interference in human belief systems. This has been revealed in a very accessible form by Laura's writings on this site, the Secret History of the World, and the Wave. However, I am still physically where I am: I am in a family very wrapped up in the beliefs and traditions of this belief system. Although my wife and kids have detected a change in me, I still am attending these same sermons with my family.

Thus, even with the new perspectve I still am in situations where I get to hear the same "cerebral derring-do" (which I am told is the work of the Holy Spirit which incidentally ONLY exists in this particular Christian church organization and no other Christian organization) as the pastor makes most scripture portions fit the central preconceived notion of the belief system: we are all sinful creatures that are simply required to believe in the redemption of our sins by the sacrificial work of Jesus so that we can get to Heaven when we die and avoid eternal damnation.

One thing I would like to be able to do when listening to these sermons, is to be able discern the probable gnostic, esoteric teachings and other layered meanings behind the scripture portions that are read as basis for the sermons (aka cerebral derring-dos). I would also like to be able to discern the outright misinformation and lies. Yes, I want to be able to read with discernment the book that is one of the central pieces of the Cosmic Cointelpro!

Let me say that it seems that Secret History of the World and the Wave goes a LONG way to help in this goal. For example, an understanding of the concepts of STS and STO are crucial, or so I think.

I think I will look a bit more into the topic of this "chreia" rhetorical device employed in the New Testament books.

Question: I wonder if it would be good advice to read this book "Patterns of Persuasion" [I suppose it is "Patterns of Persuasion in the Gospels (Paperback) by Burton L. Mack" that we are talking about?] in order to give me some more tools undertake this endeavour?

Note, I do have Mack's "LOST GOSPEL: The Book of Q" but I still have not had a chance to open it yet, and I bet it will be mandatory reading first. For anyone interested, Laura has an excellent review of it at: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/Laura-Knight-Jadczyk/lost_gospel.htm.

Beelzebub Vs. Yahweh: while reading this thread, I wondered if we can consider Yahweh a name of one of the lords of entropy 4D STS beings that are using humankind for psychic food (energy)? Then, from this discussion, can I understand that Beelzebub might possibly be a name for one of the 4D STO beings (or some kind of hyper dimensional being, maybe 5D, 6D?) that help humanity in a non-freewill violating way and whom the man whom we call Jesus knew about? Is that too simplistic of an idea? Maybe it is not terribly important in the big picture, but it is fascinating to me.

It seems that we don't know much about the Beelzebub entity, but we know something about the Yahweh entity, naturally. The story has it that among other things, he appeared in a burning bush, gave commandments to Moses on Mount Sinai and so on. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but clearly he got his message through. He posed as the Prime Creator, probably did some miracles, messed with time so that some prophecies came true and so on, and basically pretty heavily violated the free will of humans to help create Judaism and later Christianity, as part of the Secret Games of the Gods.

After this, most of the work to advance these religions was done by 3D psychopathic agents of the STS hierarchy. People who nearly two thousand years later believe all of that stuff without hardly any evidence of any kind except someone told them when they were young are probably quite good delicacies to Yahweh and his fellow lords of entropy of 4D STS that use humans for food. Further, I suppose then that those people referred to in biblical time who were much more directly violated were "overcooked" food and not so tasty. However they were necessary to create the delicacies later (us). This thought made me shudder when I thought of this scripture portion:

Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." {28} Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" {29} Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

You see, I thought that it is not the believers who are actually blessed, but blessed in this case refers actually to the 4D STS lords of entropy who are blessed because they get to feed on the scrumptious energy obtained from people who believe in a lie with little persuasion and evidence! Or so it seems. There is probably more significant layer of meaning in the Doubting Thomas story but this is something that came to me, but I am not terribly identified with this idea. However you see what kind of thoughts go through my mind when I am sitting in church nowadays. I could be going off track into too simplistic thinking, but I guess you gotta start somewhere!

So in summary, I was thinking to try to use the available environment, and in this case, the church environment that I am in at least temporarily as part of strategic enclosure, to work on seeing the real, theological reality of our existence.

I have a long way to go.

[...]
Clear my eyes
That I may See
Clear my ears
That I may hear
Cleanse my heart
That I may know and love
The Holiness of True Existence
[...] -

...I had decided that maybe having a brain was not such a bad thing even if the “faith trip” frowns on using it to any great extent, other than offering it up as a sacrifice to be hypnotized so it can be twisted like a pretzel and used to justify theological nonsense by acts of cerebral derring-do.

_Breton_

 

[Buddy]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

However, I am still physically where I am: I am in a family very wrapped up in the beliefs and traditions of this belief system. Although my wife and kids have detected a change in me, I still am attending these same sermons with my family.

Hi Breton. One thing I've found to be very important is that if you are going to be attending church, you need to keep your mind VERY active while being exposed to the 'teachings'. I think it is theoretically possible that dissasociations, distractions, etc. can cause uncritiqued ideas to enter and lodge in the subconscious where they can add to and support any other distortions we may have. I don't have any support for this idea though.

I recommend becoming very aware, take notes if necessary. Ask yourself questions like: What is this sermon about? What are the supporting scriptures? Could the 'proof' really mean something else, How do people look while they're absorbing this stuff? What techniques of credibility and persuasion are being used? How is music used to engage the emotions? What rhythm/cadence of speech does the speaker use and how does it change? Any thing else you can think of. From a perspective of external consideration, it may even look like you're really paying attention and would de-fuse any suspicion.

The idea is to keep the critical faculty of the conscious mind as active as possible in an attempt to prevent hypnotic acceptance.

One thing I would like to be able to do when listening to these sermons, is to be able discern the probable gnostic, esoteric teachings and other layered meanings behind the scripture portions that are read as basis for the sermons (aka cerebral derring-dos). I would also like to be able to discern the outright misinformation and lies. Yes, I want to be able to read with discernment the book that is one of the central pieces of the Cosmic Cointelpro!

That's a tall order for anyone! I'm still working on it too. It helps me to realize that even before the teachings of Jesus, there were still mystics/alchemists (many of them from the Middle East, I think) who tried to impart that kind of knowledge to anyone who had ears to hear, but the difficulty of having to use ordinary language (having to NOUN our way to understanding), made it necessary to make generous use of simile and metaphor.

It might be useful to study some of the Sufi poets, especially ones quoted here in the forum and associated with the fourth way Work, but these are just a few thoughts that may, or may not, be helpful.

 

[Breton]

Re: Stoning? Quick and Painless?

Thanks for the response Buddy.

you need to keep your mind VERY active while being exposed to the 'teachings'. I think it is theoretically possible that dissasociations, distractions, etc. can cause uncritiqued ideas to enter and lodge in the subconscious where they can add to and support any other distortions we may have. I don't have any support for this idea though.
...
keep the critical faculty of the conscious mind as active as possible in an attempt to prevent hypnotic acceptance

Good thought, because I suppose there is this danger that I become complacent so that I don't think the ideas are going to affect me anymore. The reason I have for this complacency is this concept that I think Laura has sometimes said "once I have seen the elephant in the living room, I just can't stop seeing it". [paraphrased].

However, I am aware that churches employ various techniques of programming - some more than others - both consciously and unconsciously. It is just a fact. Even if the faithful are nevertheless open minded enough to recognize these techniques they might still defend them: we are sinful, weak, human beings and we need all the help we can get to remain in faith! I don't have any particular examples of this in mind, but I merely anticipate it from some people I know.

And so we have the mantra, given to us in the bible "Faith cometh by hearing" (1 ROM 10:17). Yup. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing and ... well some folks also call that brain washing.

...But, the fact is, most of the distortions of our reality come to us by listening rather than observing. Deception and error of perception would have far less influence on us, and we would have no illusions, if we would look at the face value of objects and see things for what they really are. Most of mankind's illusions are the "children of the ear" and hearsay. My beloved grandmother always told me to "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see." This is very good advice. If we open our eyes and look at the problem as objectively as we can, forgetting all our beliefs and assumptions, and all the things we have been "told," we might be able to draw some conclusions.

What are the supporting scriptures? Could the 'proof' really mean something else,

So I might add to this: while the pastor is performing his "cerebral derring-do" and calling it the revelations of the Holy Spirit, I find that I sometimes like to focus on the scripture portion that he used as his starting point. While he goes on, I can open the bible, read that portion a few times myself, maybe go back to the preceding writings to get more context, and try to exercise my feeble discernment. Maybe exercising the flabby organ between my ears will strengthen it little by little! Then one can use the skills related to this thread topic [which I see has been renamed "Stoning? Quick and Painless? (How to Read the Bible)]".

However to be honest I don't get insight very often, yet.

And also, I can easily end up feeling annoyed that I wasted my time. I could be re-reading the Wave. I could open one of the big 4 psychology books that are still sitting on my desk, and I could be working on discovering my mechanical programs! There is a lot more a guy could be doing than wasting his time hearing the same old message, just for the purposes of strategic enclosure! Sheesh.

It might be useful to study some of the Sufi poets

I think I know what you are getting at, because I especially remember Laura's quotes from Al-Arabi to seem to be particularly revealing.


_Breton_

 

[thisplacerocks]

I remember Gurdjieff mentioning the importance of organizing the different parts of Self: The head butler ought to organize his servants so that the master can return to lead the household. Mouravieff in Gnosis I also talked about the many "I"s, I of the body, I of the Personality, and the potential real I. This real I, the innermost Self, comes from the "kingdom of heaven". His analogy is similar to the parable of the Lord of the vineyard. The son of the lord is Christ. By rejecting Christ, the lower "I"s do not become eternal - they die literally.

The builder I think is someone who is preoccupied with the physical. It sounds very freemason and illuminati, the STS elite. They think they can enter the kingdom of god but it is actually those who do not follow their ways that will develop their inner philosopher's stone. The rest gets sucked into black hole or reincarnate into primitive times again.