SeekinTruth said:
Approaching Infinity said:
Mac said:
My knees are warning me about doing repeated, deep squats. So, I'll squat with the in-breath a little less deeply than is shown in the video.
That sounds like a good plan. All the stuff I've read or been taught says only to squat far enough so that your thighs are parallel to the ground. But if even that is too far, only go as far as is comfortable.
Yeah, it's usually not recommended to sqaut more than the shin and thigh being at a 90 degree angle and even less if you have joint problems, etc.
Actually that depends in how you squat. If you sit in between the legs, you should have no problems in reaching deep squats. However, most people have poor flexibility, and unlearned this pattern of movement, resulting in squating pushing the butt backwards, in a effort to not let the knees travel far ahead.
The "squats destroy the knees" is kinda a myth.
Take a look at this article and make your conclusions.
[quote author=Stumptuous]
The squat is, perhaps, the single best exercise for leg strength and development. Squatting significantly strengthens the muscles responsible for knee and hip extension: quadriceps, hamstrings, and glutes, as well as the smaller stabilizing muscles such as the torso musculature. The squatting motion and position is also the foundation for many other exercises, such as deadlifts, Olympic lifts, and even every day lifting tasks. I think it is a very worthwhile task to learn how to squat, and anyone who can get out of a chair can do it. It has benefits not just for your strength, but for balance, confidence, daily-life strength, cardiovascular capacity, and active flexibility.
Problem is, the squat is often taught incorrectly, and it’s stigmatized as difficult and dangerous. People warn that it is bad for your knees and back, inappropriate for beginners (or anyone not a male collegiate athlete), too hard to learn, blah blah the sky is falling, etc. So, let’s go through all the scary things we’ve heard about squatting, to debunk them one by one.
myth #1: squatting must not be done with a full range of motion or you will hurt your knees.
This is probably the worst myth of all. It’s one of those “well known facts” which is mysteriously unsupported in the research (it’s a well known fact that as soon as you say “it’s a well known fact”, you won’t be able to back it up). According to this myth, full squats (a squat in which the knee joint is taken through a full range of motion, so that at the bottom the hamstrings make contact with the calves) are inherently dangerous, particularly to the knee joint.
While biomechanical research does support the fact that forces on the connective tissues of the knee increase with the knee angle, particularly on the posterior cruciate ligament, there is no evidence that these increased forces actually lead to injury. There is no direct evidence that full squatting causes or even exacerbates knee pain nor damage. I do not know of a single documented case where full squatting led directly to knee injury. Not one! Which is pretty amazing, considering that the clinical literature is positively littered with injury narratives. You’d think we’d see some evidence, but there is nothing, nada, zero. Studies of Olympic weightlifters and powerlifters, both of whom squat with heavy loads, show no increased risk of knee damage in either population. Olympic lifters, in particular, regularly drop to full depth under hundreds of pounds, perhaps as often a hundred times a week or more, for years, and yet their knees are healthier than those of people such as skiiers, jumpers, or runners. No study, short or long term, has ever shown an increase in knee laxity from deep squatting.
“Anyone who says that full squats are ‘bad for the knees’ has, with that statement, demonstrated conclusively that they are not entitled to an opinion about the matter. People who know nothing about a topic, especially a very technical one that requires specific training, knowledge, and experience, are not due an opinion about that topic and are better served by being quiet when it is asked about or discussed. For example, when brain surgery, or string theory, or the NFL draft, or women’s dress sizes, or white wine is being discussed, I remain quiet… But seldom is this the case when orthopedic surgeons, athletic trainers, physical therapists, or nurses are asked about full squats. Most such people have absolutely no idea what a full squat even is, and they certainly have no concept of how it affects the knees, unless they have had additional training beyond their specialties, which for the professions mentioned does not include full squats. Because if these people knew anything about squatting and the difference between a full squat and any other kind of squat and what they do to the knees, they would know that ‘full squats are bad for the knees’ is wrong and thus would not be making such a ridiculous statement.”
–Mark Rippetoe, author of Starting Strength, “Going Deep”. Crossfit Journal September 2006: 6.
In fact, there is strong evidence that squatting actually improves knee stability! The increased strength, balance, and proprioception from regular squatting can make a substantial contribution to keeping knees healthy. Progressive overload (beginning with a light load, then increasing gradually as the trainee is able) assists in strengthening connective tissues and muscles surrounding the joint.
Most interesting to me is the problem with what is usually recommended as “safe”: squatting to parallel. At parallel (where the thigh is parallel to the floor, higher than the depth of a full squat by about 30 degrees), the compressive forces on the patella (kneecap) are actually at their highest (Huberti & Hayes, Journal of Bone Joint Surgery, 1984: 715-724). Decelerating, stopping, and reversing direction at this angle can inspire significant knee pain in even healthy people, whereas full squats present no problem. Another exercise which is supposedly “safer” is the leg extension, even though patellar tension and shear forces on the knee joint are demonstrably higher with such an exercise.
It is worthwhile at this point to comment on the things that do cause knee injury. The primary causes of knee injury involve:
twisting under a load
too much load (for example, I knew a guy who boasted that he could squat 800 lbs. He had never done it before, and couldn’t even full squat half that much, but he decided that 800 was a good round number, and he was going to attempt to quarter squat it. Long story short, knee ligaments did not agree with his assessment)
landing unevenly from a jump, especially with straightened rather than bent legs (this is a big problem for folks like basketball and volleyball players)
being in a situation where one part of the leg is held stationary while the other is moving (for example, stepping in a gopher hole while running: shin stays in place while the thigh keeps moving)
impact to the knee (such as a hit from the side or front in football)
squatting in a Smith machine which does not allow proper shifts in weight through the movement, and results in shear on knee and spine
In other words, knee injury usually results from varus or valgus force (twisting of the joint in either direction), inappropriate loading, or forcible shear across the joint. It does not occur simply from taking the knee joint through a full range of motion, using correct technique, and using a weight which is appropriate to the abilities of the trainee.
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When I started squating deep years ago, I actually healed some knee problems I had from kung fu Practice of years prior.
