TAGG Tracker

[Gimpy]

That particular type of dog is unlikely to wander away from the "sheep", that is, you.

Hmm, now that is something I hadn't considered. All my prior companions have been Dobes, Rotties, German Shepherds, or mixes of those breeds...all of which are VERY independent and tend to want to challenge me for the "Alpha" pack position sometime around 8 to 10 months. They're also big on exploring when they first start to feel "grown"

So maybe I'm trying to prepare for a situation that won't happen with this pup? That would be kewl! I have not been looking forward to the "defiance" stage that all my other pups have hit at 8-10 months. I'm getting kinda old to be rolling a 60-70 lb adolescent dog.

Is there any way to rent or use one of these rigs around the right time, and only use it 'just in case'? Have him try it out, and if he consistently doesn't display a wandering tendency...then you're not out a lot of money?

Dex (our big boofy chow-lab) has a definite cat streak. Past a certain point, he's going to leave to find dog things to do. We never walk him off lead for this reason. He has slipped his collar a few times on walks, and the "Treat!" word kept him from haring off. ;D

 

[Laura]

That particular type of dog is unlikely to wander away from the "sheep", that is, you.

Hmm, now that is something I hadn't considered. All my prior companions have been Dobes, Rotties, German Shepherds, or mixes of those breeds...all of which are VERY independent and tend to want to challenge me for the "Alpha" pack position sometime around 8 to 10 months. They're also big on exploring when they first start to feel "grown"

So maybe I'm trying to prepare for a situation that won't happen with this pup? That would be kewl! I have not been looking forward to the "defiance" stage that all my other pups have hit at 8-10 months. I'm getting kinda old to be rolling a 60-70 lb adolescent dog.

Collie-type sheep dogs don't have the gene to wander like the dogs you mention. They are the most human-oriented dogs I've ever seen. They keep one eye on you and one eye on the environment to watch for threats and they simply do not WANT to (or can't) go off wandering. I say "can't" because it's bred into their bones. You also don't train them the same way you would train a dobie or similar critter. They do need some training, but it consists mostly in letting them know what you expect and lots of lovies. They LIKE to work and to know what their jobs are. And sometimes they invent jobs for themselves like getting up and checking every room in the house periodically, getting you up in the morning if they think you have slept enough, collecting things from around the house and putting them in their den to "watch" them. Sometimes this can be pretty funny. Sebastian once "collected" a little book called "The Art of Reading" along with a pair of my glasses and was found sleeping with both items between his paws.

 

[mcb]

But where do people go to hunt that has good coverage by Verizon? (I don't know; just asking.)

Pretty much everywhere now, except for a few, well known "dead spots" Years ago, we'd get one or two stray hunting dogs in the campground every season with tracking collars, and the owners would eventually show up....and we were in a very remote area near the Great Dismal Swamp.

They might not have been using cellular-based devices; I don't know. I am finding, though, that I have coverage now in fairly remote areas where it did not exist before. This is not a good thing.

Are you sure that you aren't including other radio tracking devices that may be using different frequency bands and power levels?

No I'm not. Some of the collars I've seen could well have been on other frequencies, but I don't understand why cell communications in the 800's frequency range would be any more (or less) harmful than transmissions in the 400's frequency range?

It does make a difference, although I am not up to date on all the details. The power levels matter as well, and the type of modulation. I believe there could be a tradeoff between tissue absorption (at higher frequencies) and antenna length (at lower frequencies) but I don't know for sure.

Using a cellular data transceiver to transmit GPS coordinates sounds to me like a "convenience" shortcut that would have definite health implications, well beyond the concerns that we discussed surrounding implanted passive microchips.

Well, I was thinking of possible ways to mitigate the health risk, like mounting it on the top of the harness that he wears for his seat belt with a piece of tin between him and the transmitter, or something like that. I made my own cell phone case that dangles off my belt from two small chains so it's not constantly pressed against my body.

Shielding could help, although sometimes it can send the signal somewhere else that is just as bad. Mounting on a harness (as opposed to a collar) would at least give you more control over what part was exposed. A couple of other systems (one cell-based; one not) are described here:
_http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/04/how-to-track-a-lost-animal/index.htm

After Laura's post, now I'm wondering if it's even necessary? She's right in that I've never had this breed (breeds) of dog before. I could be preparing for something that's not going to happen with this little guy?

That, by far, would be the best solution.

 

[Voyageur]

[quote author=Laura ]
Collie-type sheep dogs don't have the gene to wander like the dogs you mention. They are the most human-oriented dogs I've ever seen. They keep one eye on you and one eye on the environment to watch for threats and they simply do not WANT to (or can't) go off wandering. I say "can't" because it's bred into their bones. You also don't train them the same way you would train a dobie or similar critter. They do need some training, but it consists mostly in letting them know what you expect and lots of lovies. They LIKE to work and to know what their jobs are. And sometimes they invent jobs for themselves like getting up and checking every room in the house periodically, getting you up in the morning if they think you have slept enough, collecting things from around the house and putting them in their den to "watch" them. Sometimes this can be pretty funny. Sebastian once "collected" a little book called "The Art of Reading" along with a pair of my glasses and was found sleeping with both items between his paws.
[/quote]

Ahhh, a scholar at heart, so cute .

Our Collie (Boarder) was the same in many ways, very glued to our home. The problem was the crossed Blue Heeler part, she would sometimes decide out of the blue (no pun intended) to chase the moon it seemed.

 

[Voyageur]

Guardian, if you still think something is warranted, perhaps something like this in a pouch might work:

_http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=112

It is a SPOT unit and links to mapping on your own computer. What caught my attention was the following in Bold:

Track Progress: This feature allows employers to track the location of workers even beyond cellular using Google Maps™. Account holders have the ability to set up a SPOT Shared Page which allows the SPOT IS GPS locations to be shared easily through a public or private web page. Once activated, SPOT IS acquires the GPS location every ten minutes for 24 hours or until canceled. Track Progress also helps employers and workers in uncharted areas to record safe routes for future reference.

Perhaps these indicates that a signal is not constant "every ten minutes"; not sure? It may also be useful in other ways once it is not required for pup.

 

[mcb]

...
Perhaps these indicates that a signal is not constant "every ten minutes"; not sure? It may also be useful in other ways once it is not required for pup.

I'm not sure either. I found by Googling that SPOT uses the Globalstar network. A thesis paper published in 2006 showed the most recent specs (then) to include CDMA modulation, a transmit frequency of ~1.6 Ghz, and a transmit power of 2.5 watts. It is designed for cellular network compatibility, which should tell you something.

If you consider all the fuss over home "smart meters," such as the power meter we have transmitting in a comparable band with ~60 seconds of network activity per day and a power output of ~1 watt, you might be safer strapping a smart meter to your wrist.

 

[Voyageur]

...
Perhaps these indicates that a signal is not constant "every ten minutes"; not sure? It may also be useful in other ways once it is not required for pup.

I'm not sure either. I found by Googling that SPOT uses the Globalstar network. A thesis paper published in 2006 showed the most recent specs (then) to include CDMA modulation, a transmit frequency of ~1.6 Ghz, and a transmit power of 2.5 watts. It is designed for cellular network compatibility, which should tell you something.

If you consider all the fuss over home "smart meters," such as the power meter we have transmitting in a comparable band with ~60 seconds of network activity per day and a power output of ~1 watt, you might be safer strapping a smart meter to your wrist.

"smart meter to your wrist"

Hear you on this. These devices are used around here in mountainous terrain and under tree canopy (no cellular service). Don't know for sure, yet recalled there was an ability to pre set them to pulse a location at varying intervals (from source rather than receiver), whether human activated or not. The Globalstar system seems to have been damaged back when there was either a large solar flair or magnetar SGR 1806-20 (Dec 2004) exploded, taking out many of these satellite in the loop. Since, people started using Iridium Systems (circum polar).

Perhaps, as has been mentioned, the Collie breed in the end will do its Collie thing and stay close to the "sheep" and all this will not be required.

 

[Guardian]

You also don't train them the same way you would train a dobie or similar critter. They do need some training, but it consists mostly in letting them know what you expect and lots of lovies.

He really is a fast learner, and I've noticed it doesn't take as much repetitive, daily training for him to pick up on something. Once he's got it, he's got it, he doesn't forget in a few days without constant reinforcement. I hung some bells on the front door for him to nose if he needs to go out and I'm in another room....or just engrossed in the computer. He learned to nose them VERY quickly.

He also insists on sleeping between me and the door....which has always been my side of the bed. Even if we start out with him laying on the other side, he'll eventually crawl over me, and stretch out on the little sliver of bed between me and the edge, and push me over, so he's between me and the door. Every morning we wake up and I'm sleeping in what used to be the dog's 1/2 of the bed.

The "lots of lovies" thing is also common to the Dobes, Rotties, Sheps, etc. too...ALL huge cuddle bugs. I think that might be universal to most, if not all, dogs, if they're given the option?

And sometimes they invent jobs for themselves like getting up and checking every room in the house periodically,

He is VERY alert to the slightest unusual noise, and immediately looks at me to see if I'm paying attention. If not, he makes a funny little noise that sounds surprisingly like "Yoah" He doesn't usually bark, unless something startles him.

He's also not afraid of thunder, and the vacuum cleaner is not evil and does not need to be destroyed....something you will never convince a Dobe of.

getting you up in the morning if they think you have slept enough,

YES! His favorite method is to lay across my head and lick my ear. I NEVER had that with the Dobes, Rotties, etc., in fact it was just the opposite, a "Do we have to get up now, come-on, lets sleep just a little more" attitude.

collecting things from around the house and putting them in their den to "watch" them. Sometimes this can be pretty funny. Sebastian once "collected" a little book called "The Art of Reading" along with a pair of my glasses and was found sleeping with both items between his paws.

Awwwwww! Well, you know what they say about dogs taking after their owners

 

[Guardian]

Perhaps, as has been mentioned, the Collie breed in the end will do its Collie thing and stay close to the "sheep" and all this will not be required.

That's what I'm thinking/hoping too! He is a mix, and we don't know what he's a mix of. A dozen different "dog people" have made a dozen different guesses...and he could have 3, 4,5 different breeds in there? The collie traits do seem to be dominant though, so I'm going to wait and see if he starts to wander before I try any tracking tech.

I REALLY appreciate all the information everyone has provided! THANK YOU!

 

[mcb]

I was disappointed with what I learned about the tracking collars, although there are types out there that we could use here if we didn't mind going around the neighborhood pointing the aforementioned yagi antenna. What it would cost is another matter.

We are giving our cats more freedom in the back yard, because it obviously improves their mood and health (apart from flea problems). Unfortunately, improved mood means they start to behave like normal cats. Cassie has tried to climb the big tree (it's 30 feet or so), and Bella has been plotting to jump from the emergency generator to the fence. When she eventually figures out that she can scale fences like the other neighborhood cats, that battle will be over and we will lose. Right now she is starting to run longer distances (she is a couch potato in the house) and when one of those runs ends in a fence, she may go right over without thinking. They both have a vastly better diet now (theirs changed as ours did :)) and Cassie especially is somewhat stronger and more agile. Bella is the sort that could thrive on anything.

Both of them climbed the persimmon tree today (our back yard contains a garden, orchard, and quarter labyrinth, and no lawn -- a cat paradise), which is not that much taller than I am. We have never seen Bella climb a tree before. Their brains are "waking up" and Bella at least is a smart cat. We keep the screen door to the back locked in the summer to keep her from opening it.

It would be nice to have some way of tracking them down and retrieving them if they leave the back yard. It could avoid the kind of situation we had in November where Bella spent 4 nights in 40 degree weather with no food, in the back yard across the street. But I don't see a good technical solution so far. Cassie is small and vulnerable and has reason to stay close to home. The one time she escaped out the front, she sniffed around a bit and returned to the front door. Bella is smart but prone to panic (which leaves her brainless). We can only hope that she learned something from her outdoor ordeal and will stay close to home too.

 

[Laura]

He also insists on sleeping between me and the door....which has always been my side of the bed. Even if we start out with him laying on the other side, he'll eventually crawl over me, and stretch out on the little sliver of bed between me and the edge, and push me over, so he's between me and the door. Every morning we wake up and I'm sleeping in what used to be the dog's 1/2 of the bed.

Totally typical. They will also position themselves between you and the door if you are sitting in a room. Or between you and a stranger until the new person is accepted as a "sheep". They don't accept new people so easily, either. Every new person is a "wolf".

 

[Guardian]

Totally typical. They will also position themselves between you and the door if you are sitting in a room.

Yup! His bed in the living room is between me and the door when I'm at the computer because that's where he wanted to lay (when he's not in the chair with me) instead of beside me. I originally thought he wanted to be on my feet...but no, you're right, he's watching that door. Sometimes he gets up on the couch and does the same thing.

Or between you and a stranger until the new person is accepted as a "sheep". They don't accept new people so easily, either. Every new person is a "wolf".

This is exactly how he is at home, but when we're in public, running around town...he loves everybody? He's made some kind of distinction in his mind when we're away from home? When we walk downtown, go shopping at Lowes, etc. he's one big ball of wiggling love with total strangers, completely social, but NOT when we're at home and a stranger shows up, which I think is perfect...but he decided this on his own. There is a big difference between "home" and "not home" in his mind, with respect to how he greets strangers?

He's also great with other dogs and children...even strange ones. He's got this "Hi, wanna play?" little wiggle...and even as young as he is, he's aware enough not to play rough with small children.

 

[Guardian]

I was disappointed with what I learned about the tracking collars, although there are types out there that we could use here if we didn't mind going around the neighborhood pointing the aforementioned yagi antenna. What it would cost is another matter.

I did look at a lot of different tracking collars and what I liked about the "Tagg" is that it doesn't engage the cellular service until it's a certain distance (defined by you) from the base station. In theory, the gps doesn't turn on until the animal has left the per-determined area. That might work for your kitties?

 

[Laura]

Totally typical. They will also position themselves between you and the door if you are sitting in a room.

Yup! His bed in the living room is between me and the door when I'm at the computer because that's where he wanted to lay (when he's not in the chair with me) instead of beside me. I originally thought he wanted to be on my feet...but no, you're right, he's watching that door. Sometimes he gets up on the couch and does the same thing.

Or between you and a stranger until the new person is accepted as a "sheep". They don't accept new people so easily, either. Every new person is a "wolf".

This is exactly how he is at home, but when we're in public, running around town...he loves everybody? He's made some kind of distinction in his mind when we're away from home? When we walk downtown, go shopping at Lowes, etc. he's one big ball of wiggling love with total strangers, completely social, but NOT when we're at home and a stranger shows up, which I think is perfect...but he decided this on his own. There is a big difference between "home" and "not home" in his mind, with respect to how he greets strangers?

He's also great with other dogs and children...even strange ones. He's got this "Hi, wanna play?" little wiggle...and even as young as he is, he's aware enough not to play rough with small children.

All the above are collie traits that are BRED into them. At home they are "working" - when out and about, they are "off duty" unless instructed otherwise. But don't be fooled. If someone approaches you too quickly with the wrong gestures, they may get a serious nip on the kneecap.

Also: if someone in the room leaps up and tries to leave quickly, like run to the bathroom, they may be followed and nipped on the backside to get them back in the "herd space."

They know that children are children and have to be treated in a special way.

Ark says that our collies are pure STO type beings. We haven't found any faults in them at all. Shelties can be a bit too standoffish and over-alert to anything shifting in the environment. Collies, on the other hand, have some sort of true reasoning ability that "reads" the signals and makes decisions in respect of the context.

ADDED in respect of this last: We have a refrigerator magnet that says: "If Lassie had been a Sheltie, Timmy would never have fallen in the well." That kind of sums it up.

 

[Guardian]

All the above are collie traits that are BRED into them. At home they are "working" - when out and about, they are "off duty" unless instructed otherwise. But don't be fooled. If someone approaches you too quickly with the wrong gestures, they may get a serious nip on the kneecap.

Geezzzz, I'll have to watch that! Biting a human can get a dog destroyed around here

Also: if someone in the room leaps up and tries to leave quickly, like run to the bathroom, they may be followed and nipped on the backside to get them back in the "herd space."

He's not a really a "nipper" which makes me wonder what other breeds he's mixed with? He uses his paws like hands without thumbs a LOT...grabs things, people, etc. When someone strange approaches in public he wants to rear up on his hind feet and paw them in the chest. Of course this is not behavior I allow, and we're getting better with "down!" but he really likes to walk/dance on his hind legs and paw them, or the air, when either someone he knows comes in the house, or when he meets a friendly stranger. Is this a common Collie trait? I've never had a dog that spent so much time on his hind legs?

They know that children are children and have to be treated in a special way.

He sure does! At a local event, a small child, maybe 3-4, just ran up behind him (with screaming parent chasing behind him) and grabbed my baby around the butt, yelling "Doggie" He just turned around and licked the child right in the face.