Tel-aviv, Israel

[j0da]

I've just got an offer to relocate to Israel, Tel-aviv, to work on one year contract. The offer is interesting enough to ponder on it a little. While there are many pages and blogs to look into I'd love to hear some impressions from SOTT forum members.

Anyone living there, or been there for a while? Or maybe someone knows some web-pages, blogs worthy reading, which would help me to get an idea how everyday life looks like, how are the people and so on?

Taking into consideration present geo-political situation relocating to Israel can look like going into the "Lion's mouth", but maybe it's not exactly correct assumption? There are also so many prevalent stereotypes regarding Jews in my country, that although I try to think in objective terms my opinions have high probability of being skewed to bigger or lesser degree. I'd be most gratefull for any feedback. (I hope I posted in in the right section.)

 

[Beau]

Geez, I wouldn't go there! Do you realize that Israel operates under essentially a military state? That the military can go in and take anyone they wish without recourse or due process? Regardless of whether or not this may happen to you, why would you want to go to a place that is so dehumanizing to people?

And on top of this, the entire area is a powder keg waiting for the fuse to be lit. If your survival depends upon taking this job, then maybe, maybe consider it. Otherwise I would turn down this opportunity.

I know there are a few members from that area that could offer a little better insight into the state of the region as well.

just my 2 pennies

 

[anart]

Taking into consideration present geo-political situation relocating to Israel can look like going into the "Lion's mouth", but maybe it's not exactly correct assumption?

Or, maybe, it is exactly the correct assumption. In all honesty, I would not even vaguely consider moving anywhere near this area. Not only are all indications pointing toward major conflict and destruction in the near future, but the environment as a whole seems to be completely ponerized. I'm sure others can provide more details, but it would seem that moving to Israel could very well be suicide at this point in time.

 

[rs]

I had to travel to Haifa on business for a week about 10 years ago. Since then things have changed radically, I'm sure.

My observation is that the tension in the air is so thick you can cut it with a knife. It is overwhelming, and like the summer humidity in Houston Texas, it envelops you in a way that you cannot escape it.

It is hard to fully describe and it has after all been 10 years but having been there once for only a week, I will never set foot in Israel again, for any reason.

The building I went in had a sign in the lobby for employees to check in their guns at the front desk. This check in proceedure was not an idle commentary, it was an actuality. People walked into the building and checked in their Glock like it was nothing.

There were a bunch of us from the US and our hosts treated us to some recreation when we first arrived. Our lead host got out of the car, grabbed his 9mm and shoved it into his belt. It freaked me out.

On the street clusters of fully armed soldiers are not just a common occurance, they are simply part of the landscape.

You can easily tell the difference between the Jewish Israelis and the Arab Israelis, as easily as if they were wearing arm bands.

Every meeting with the local work force *always* degenerated into a passionate and loud argument with the Israel participants defaulting to Hebrew leaving the Americans out-of-the-loop. It is not that these people hated each other, it is simply how they resolved conflict. By fighting. After a loud passionate heated argument, at the end of the meeting they would get up, go to the coffee machine, get a cup of coffee and talk about their weekend plans. You might be seeing interviews of Israelis after bomb attacks waving their arms in the air, screaming and yelling. I guarantee you that 5 seconds after the cameras turn off, their whole demeanor changes and they go back to talking about their weekend plans.

The hatred expressed by many of the Israeli Jews towards the Palestinians makes the race problems in the Southern states during the "separate but equal" and lynch mob phase in American history seem tame. This is true regardless of educational background.

If you go, plan on one of two outcomes:

1) you will "disconnect" and bury yourself in your work, working 16 hours a day just to escape.
2) the strain will rapidly cause you to go nuts and you will default on your contract.

Our company sent a whole group of people to Haifa for a year. Nobody "liked" it and almost everyone defaulted to option 1 except for one woman who used her pregnancy as an excuse to bail out early. Also interestingly, everyone got into a serious automobile accident.

Since 10 years ago I can only imagine that the emotional environment has become significantly worse.

 

[Cyre2067]

I've been to israel once, in march of 2001, and i saw more auto accidents then i've seen anywhere else. rs' comment reminded me.

Other then that, trust your gut, do what you feel you need to do in order to grow that said, Yes the area is a powder keg with a lit fuse, and No i do not reccomend moving there.

Where's Keit at?

 

[RflctnOfU]

I've been to israel once, in march of 2001, and i saw more auto accidents then i've seen anywhere else. rs' comment reminded me.

Other then that, trust your gut, do what you feel you need to do in order to grow that said, Yes the area is a powder keg with a lit fuse, and No i do not reccomend moving there.

Where's Keit at?

I would add that your intellect inform "what you feel", or at least create a "balance". I've never been to Israel. That being said, I have friends who have, and thier descriptions match up, or at least did at the time, with the stories in the "alternative", aka foriegn, press. Israel is a powder keg with a 1mm fuse.

If you do decide to go, you have my best wishes, but please, PLEASE, consider the situation carefully first.

Kris

 

[Keit]

I've just got an offer to relocate to Israel, Tel-aviv, to work on one year contract. The offer is interesting enough to ponder on it a little. While there are many pages and blogs to look into I'd love to hear some impressions from SOTT forum members.

Do you want to switch places? :) No, really...
Of course it should be your decision, but I would recommend to think it over. REALLY think it over.

Tel Aviv is different from other cities. Most of Israelis see Tel Aviv as a country in a country. It's concidered a place for young bohemian "wonnabe" people. There are lot of different types. Basically, they are more tolerant toward different opinions/races/nations then other Israelis (more "left" politicaly). They have a motto of "Live and let live".
But this is still Israel non the less. And outside Tel Aviv you can still can have a chance to be called Antisemitic, simply because you weren't careful enough and told some stranger that you are from Poland and you are not jewish.
And remember, under ANY circumstances, do NOT engage in any political or religious conversations. Unless you already know this person, and he (or she) is young and you both sitting in Tel Aviv pub drinking beer.
In most cases there is no problem.

Do you realize that Israel operates under essentially a military state? That the military can go in and take anyone they wish without recourse or due process?

It's not true. And Israel is not under military state.

My observation is that the tension in the air is so thick you can cut it with a knife. It is overwhelming, and like the summer humidity in Houston Texas, it envelops you in a way that you cannot escape it.

Yes, I feel it too. Ohh, and you probably will hate the weather. Especially in summer. Prepare yourself for 80% humidity.

On the street clusters of fully armed soldiers are not just a common occurance, they are simply part of the landscape.

True. It's a common occurrence in Haifa. There are lot of military bases there. It's not something people from other countries are used to.

Also lot of young soldiers (women and men) constantly leaving or coming home, etc... There is not so much space in this country (like in US for example) to conceal movement of soldiers that go to or arrive from bases.
There are also many military (administrative) bases in the cities. For example, I live near Tel Aviv (in Ramat Gan) and we have military base near the center of the city. You can see soldiers everywhere, but they are there simply because of close proximity to their homes, bus stations or any other transportation. It's also mandatory for any young man or woman to be in the army for 1-3 years. Luckily I didn't have a "chance" to serve in the military.

Every meeting with the local work force *always* degenerated into a passionate and loud argument with the Israel participants defaulting to Hebrew leaving the Americans out-of-the-loop. It is not that these people hated each other, it is simply how they resolved conflict. By fighting.

Yes. Israelis also very rude. Very emotional and vocal. But yet - not all of them. Again - Tel Aviv some how different.

Yes the area is a powder keg with a lit fuse, and No i do not reccomend moving there.

Where's Keit at?

I agree. I hope one day to leave this place. I don't like it here, even if I still conside it my home. But if the house is haunted, better to rellocate.

So, this is your decision. You have to decide if it's worth the risk of finding yourself in the middle of another imminent conflict. But if you'll decide to come, I'll be happy to help you with any information.
I hope you won't, though ;)

 

[j0da]

Jeez! I guess my gut was telling me the truth, but my strong need of change somewhat clouded my reasoning. I didn't realise the seriousness of situation, for my opinion was skewed by a man who proposed this contract.

Usually, I'm in contact with people connected to design/multimedia/movie industry, and indeed, they are mostly "bohemian/yuppie" types. "Forget the war, we've got some really cool DJ playing tonight in xyz club!"

So when I told the guy that the area is pretty "hot" he answered "Ah, yeah, it just a media hype, war, bombs, rockets, etc - we got used to it. Nothing to worry about. it's just a normal city like any other in Europe. And if you worry about temperature we have full blown air conditioning in the office :D"

Classical disconnection from reality.

Thanks for feedback, people! If I need to make a MOVE, I'd better carefully select destination.

 

[Beau]

Do you realize that Israel operates under essentially a military state? That the military can go in and take anyone they wish without recourse or due process?

It's not true. And Israel is not under military state.

Yes, I know it isn't officially. But when Israeli soldiers can go to someone's home, blindfold and handcuff someone for no apparent reason and without any response, it doesn't matter if it is recognized as a military state.

 

[Keit]

Classical disconnection from reality.

Exactly. And I have to remind myself constantly the same thing (wake up, don't sleep!), because it's so easy to disconnect and pretend that it has no effect on my life. It will, and then it will be too late. No more cool DJ in the club.

Yes, I know it isn't officially. But when Israeli soldiers can go to someone's home, blindfold and handcuff someone for no apparent reason and without any response, it doesn't matter if it is recognized as a military state.

You see? Perfect example. I automatically assumed in my mind that if it doesn't happen to Israelis, there is no such animal as military state in Israel...

I advice you to stay away from this countrly. It's evil

 

[Art]

...but my strong need of change...

Strong need of change, ah? And what do we have here... someone comes to invite j0da to a very pretty land... when j0da has been posting *stuff*... when j0da has been... err... awakening, should I say?
Gee... when j0da is applying efforts to jump to the next step!!!
Nice timing, right?
Wonder I, who was that guy? j0da should open eyes and observe with discretion such a source: One here thinks, perhaps theres someone else, or something else behind?
Maybe not, but a anyway, "careful" seems to be a fitting word, ain't it?

 

[j0da]

Art, you are right, there is more to the story, all the weird stuff. I've been connecting some dots, but then the usual thought came - "But, I'm nobody!" And now it gives me shivers, how hard it is to overcome all the intelectual rationalizations. It's almost like Laura's spotting of UFO and explaining it as "wild geese flying"!

E-mails were missing or arrived delayed; postal mail with my invoice hasn't reached it's destination yet (and it has been a month) so I'm left without money; offer to take part in pilot production ("it's your big chance, man!") created much turmoil in my plans; when I declined to take part in it I received an answer which was perfect example of manipulation, playing on my sense of courage, decisiveness and on my ambition; and now this - "Hey, come to Israel!" All the weird stuff connected with one source! I'm experiencing exactly the same blindness that Laura described regarding her connection with Frank.

Keit - you are not alone in disconnection!

Jeez! Nobody is "nobody"! Thanks God, I'm a part of this forum!

 

[Ben]

I was going to say I would not be able to move there because I disagree so strongly with Israel's history and policy, but that doesn't make a lot of sense coming from a British citizen. I suppose what would mostly discourage me is the attitutes, beliefs and opinions of the general population themselves. Here in the UK we have a largely secular state with strong religious beliefs or nationalistic pride being relatively rare compared with the US, for example. It is common to hear people criticise British history and policy, but I'm sure this varies widely across the country. As Keit was explaining, this is the case in Israel also. All I can suggest is to continue to research the environment to which you would be moving. That is a mostly intellectual exercise, but my gut feeling is absolutely no!

 

[Amoeba]

J0da DONT GO.

I have never been to Israel or Poland. But somehow I feel that Poland is hell of a lot nicer place to live than Israel (all things considered).

Having read many of your posts on the forum let me just say WE DONT WANT TO LOSE YOU!

Whatever you decide, good luck to you!

 

[Ruth]

Strong need of change, ah? And what do we have here... someone comes to invite j0da to a very pretty land... when j0da has been posting *stuff*... when j0da has been... err... awakening, should I say?
Gee... when j0da is applying efforts to jump to the next step!!!
Nice timing, right?
Wonder I, who was that guy? j0da should open eyes and observe with discretion such a source: One here thinks, perhaps theres someone else, or something else behind?
Maybe not, but a anyway, "careful" seems to be a fitting word, ain't it?

Yes, its interesting how people can be led astray. For many young men (and often not so young ones) its either money or sex and that's not to say that women don't get the same distractors either...

I was wondering what became of not so subtle cyber flirt here. :)
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2581&p=2
I think people need to bear in mind that many, many things can be done to vector people especially on a planet run by 4Dsts. It sometimes gets quite hard to negotiate it all.