The frequency ratio in humanity and the times to come

[Buddy]

IMO the fact that computers will overpower us doesn't necessarily mean that they will take over the world or destroy us as with Atlantis. We are getting to a point where our society has become so dependent on computers that, if they were to crash, society as we know it would fall apart so in that sense they have overpowered us already to a degree.

I agree as well. There are many ways to be 'overpowered' and some people seem already there.

To add to anart's example, I was awaiting change from a cashier recently. She had pushed a wrong button or something and the register's computer wasn't telling her how much to give me in change. Her first response? Frustration and a panicky search for her calculator rather than attempt to simply calculate my change in her own head.

 

[bngenoh]

IMO the fact that computers will overpower us doesn't necessarily mean that they will take over the world or destroy us as with Atlantis. We are getting to a point where our society has become so dependent on computers that, if they were to crash, society as we know it would fall apart so in that sense they have overpowered us already to a degree.

I agree as well. There are many ways to be 'overpowered' and some people seem already there.

To add to anart's example, I was awaiting change from a cashier recently. She had pushed a wrong button or something and the register's computer wasn't telling her how much to give me in change. Her first response? Frustration and a panicky search for her calculator rather than attempt to simply calculate my change in her own head.

Tis a pathetic spectacle isn't it, how people have so degenerated, just imagine, "I have to use my mind to solve a given challenge that is presented by reality, where is my master, he knows all, I can't do it."

 

[Oxajil]

To add to anart's example, I was awaiting change from a cashier recently. She had pushed a wrong button or something and the register's computer wasn't telling her how much to give me in change. Her first response? Frustration and a panicky search for her calculator rather than attempt to simply calculate my change in her own head.

I work as a cashier as well, and that has happened to me. I tried to do it by calculating in my head, but it was a bit of a stressful situation (as there was a long line of customers), so I told the customer about it, and she could see I was struggling a bit, she then decided to get out her mobile phone and did the calculation, she was very kind and patient. I don't think it's always necessarily a bad thing to use such tools. Sometimes calculating in the head isn't as easy as always! Especially when there is some kind of work pressure around. But yea, I surely get your point, computers and other such devices have been taking us over in different ways.

 

[Muxel]

If you've been in a store recently when the power has gone out, you realize that you can't even buy something with cash because there are no manual cash drawers or manual receipts.

Happened to me once, and when I told my housemate she cracked up and said it's because they can't f___ing count.

But it's preposterous to have to manually deal with values like $12.49 or $3.99 ... could the Control System please round things up to make addition easier ... which came first, the evil numbers or the calculating machine?

 

[Buddy]

If you've been in a store recently when the power has gone out, you realize that you can't even buy something with cash because there are no manual cash drawers or manual receipts.

Happened to me once, and when I told my housemate she cracked up and said it's because they can't f___ing count.

But it's preposterous to have to manually deal with values like $12.49 or $3.99 ... could the Control System please round things up to make addition easier ... which came first, the evil numbers or the calculating machine?

The evil numbers prolly. The Arabs gave us "zero" and ever since, it seems to be easier to 'draw a blank' than think, OSIT.

 

[lake_george]

But it's preposterous to have to manually deal with values like $12.49 or $3.99 ... could the Control System please round things up to make addition easier ... which came first, the evil numbers or the calculating machine?

FWIW, I remember hearing that prices were set a penny or two below a whole number of dollars so that the store clerk would have to ring up the sale in the cash register - to give back change - and not be able to obviously pocket the money. With sales tax though, the cost of an item is now a nickel and some cents above a dollar amount.

Still though, without electricity there would be no way to pump gas, no way to ring up sales, and maybe even no way to use a credit card. No cell phones either after the batteries run out, and if you didn't have an ol'-timey landline tethered to the wall you don't have a phone. You are out of water if you get water from a deep well, and if you get city water, how long will that last when the supply of 'purified' water runs out? Oh, and also.... I think I remember hearing that the nuclear power plants need electricity to keep from melting down - to keep the spent fuel rods under water maybe?

So are there any preparations for this kind of event? If it is local, people can come from outside with supplies and to help fix it, but widespread...?? not a pleasant prospect.

 

[Buddy]

[quote author=session]
For example: your computers, which are now on the verge of reaching the level whereby they can think by themselves, will begin to develop faint soul imprint.
Q: (L) That's not a pleasant thought.

I don't think computers -- or more specifically, artificial intelligence -- are quite there yet. Well, at least not that we're aware of.[/quote]

"...that we're aware of" is key, I think.

From conventional, historical literature on the subject, biological-based neural net experimentation was actually ongoing in the 1950's. The earliest nets were called "perceptrons", but there was a problem with these "computers". They computed in a way that Marvin Minsky described as "in a drunken stagger". In fact, except for a small minority of dedicated researchers, Minsky was instrumental in eventually turning everyone's interest away from biological-template neural nets. Instead, interest and funding was directed towards analog and digital boolean-binary-driven computation resulting in the computers we're using right now.

Minsky was a brilliant guy with precision logic and some flawless insights, but ultimately turned out to be wrong. Post 1974, the 'problem' with perceptrons was discovered. Among other improvements, a 'back-prop' (backward propagation of errors) algorithm was implemented, or rather 'allowed to happen'. Results were incredible: these nets could become self-teaching by handling, by themselves, the adjustment of 'weight' or connection strengths given to the various neuron connections contributing to a final conclusion. (See "The Quantum Brain" by Jeffery Satinover, p. 25-32 for more info).

Today, a 'rat brain' can self-teach to fly a jet if the following 2007 article can be believed, so what else might be possible for biologically-driven "computers" and humans as well?
_http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/99111/Rat-brain-flies-a-jet.html

 

[SeekinTruth]

Still though, without electricity there would be no way to pump gas, no way to ring up sales, and maybe even no way to use a credit card. No cell phones either after the batteries run out, and if you didn't have an ol'-timey landline tethered to the wall you don't have a phone. You are out of water if you get water from a deep well, and if you get city water, how long will that last when the supply of 'purified' water runs out? Oh, and also.... I think I remember hearing that the nuclear power plants need electricity to keep from melting down - to keep the spent fuel rods under water maybe?

Even land line phones can't operate without electricity (although they're on their own power supply -- when the electricity in your house goes out the land line still works on it's own electric supply -- if all of the electricity infrastructure was gone, or in large parts of the globe, there would be no phone communication possible at all). Water treatment and pumping systems wouldn't work, so we'd need to get clean, potable water supplies from somewhere. And the nuclear power plants situation is so scary, I can't even imagine all of the plants on the planet melting down at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 8431]

There are many AI prototypes that you can see in action on the web. They can think by themselves, interact with humans and apparently have basic ''emotions''. Quite impressive but you know, they only show off the basic stuff and positive side of it. ¸

They do not really think - all they do is to parse what is written to them (with no real understanding of the meaning), and if it succeeds, it is matched against a database of more or less ready-made answers or answer patterns. If there is a match, some or another answer is chosen to be parroted - otherwise, vagueness serves to somewhat mask the unthinking nature of the generic response that follows.

Well, as seen in the demonstration video, these robots were engaging in discussion by themselves -- not only replying to the designers. Of course, it's all about programmation.

Anyways, I lack knowledge in computing/programming so I can't really engage in this sort of discussion much.

I do still beleive though that AI must be very advanced, by far more that public is aware of. Just think of what it could be now if both humans and 4D STS beings get into the work. If the "lizzies" have already designed 3D vehicles with soul imprints (greys) I do not see at all why they wouldn't be able to create a similar body but of human-like form.

The C's have talked about that subject already. Seems like it's really happening already.

My thoughts. I could be wrong. I haven't gotten too deeply into the subject so far.

Feel free to correct me.

Cheers.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

If the "lizzies" have already designed 3D vehicles with soul imprints (greys)

Hi JayMark

Being more precise ;) ...

A: They function by interaction with the souls of the Lizard beings. This technology is extremely far in advance of that with which you are familiar, but the Gray beings are not only built and designed artificially, but also function as a projection mentally and psychically of the Lizard beings. They are like four dimensional probes.
Cassiopaeans 10/22/1994

 

[Deleted member 8431]

If the "lizzies" have already designed 3D vehicles with soul imprints (greys)

Hi JayMark

Being more precise ;) ...

A: They function by interaction with the souls of the Lizard beings. This technology is extremely far in advance of that with which you are familiar, but the Gray beings are not only built and designed artificially, but also function as a projection mentally and psychically of the Lizard beings. They are like four dimensional probes.
Cassiopaeans 10/22/1994

Thanks.

That's closer to what I was suggesting here.

I will need to review what the C's have said in order to express myself with proper terms and most importantly, get the good picture.

I don't think that something like a "4D probe" (grays) can be compared to strictly 3D technology by any mean.

I may have mixed two completely diffrent concepts here: 3D and 4D technology.

My bad. Good lesson though!