The MARVEL universe and the Names of God?

[mkrnhr]

It is true. Anyone who moves within the exoteric circle, interprets it that way. Then we have those who finally develop the insight (discernment) to see the unseen.

I am of the opinion that if that discernment is well developed, it is worth discussing one or another work of fiction.

1. The global subconscious speaks through its works of fiction. Metaphor rules! You can read the reality the planet believes it deserves to experience by looking at its dream content.

2. I consider it a useful survival tactic to take a look at the punch cards being fed into the cultural engine. How my neighbors think and behave is affected by the stuff they watch on TV. When shows are selling pitchforks and torches, my whiskers twitch.

That's exactly why it is suspicious when it is too blatant and not subtle and symbolic ;)

 

[genero81]

2. I consider it a useful survival tactic to take a look at the punch cards being fed into the cultural engine. How my neighbors think and behave is affected by the stuff they watch on TV. When shows are selling pitchforks and torches, my whiskers twitch.

You have whiskers? Yeah, it's interesting. Watching all kinds of movies and shows is one way I keep my finger on the pulse of the cultural heartbeat. Paying attention to reality right and left and all that. I don't actually get all that much out of the super hero genre. Rarely do I really get the feeling that there's some depth to the writing like I did with the first Matrix movie, or V is for Vendetta. But Lana Wachoski really went full SJW retard by the end of the Sense 8 series. Too bad. Ah well, on to the next thing...

I'm not losing any sleep. Although ya just never know what might be coming down the pike with the influence of the Wave. It's sure to be interesting one way or another. OSIT

 

[Woodsman]

That's exactly why it is suspicious when it is too blatant and not subtle and symbolic ;)

Blatant implies Propaganda.

Subtle and Symbolic implies the Unconscious.

Both ends of that stick can bruise upon impact! It pays to keep an eye on the stick.

I like how Jordan Peterson talked about the difference between art and propaganda:

You have whiskers? Yeah, it's interesting. Watching all kinds of movies and shows is one way I keep my finger on the pulse of the cultural heartbeat. Paying attention to reality right and left and all that. I don't actually get all that much out of the super hero genre. Rarely do I really get the feeling that there's some depth to the writing like I did with the first Matrix movie, or V is for Vendetta. But Lana Wachoski really went full SJW retard by the end of the Sense 8 series. Too bad. Ah well, on to the next thing...

I consider anything hyper-popular to be wildly important if one is interested in understanding what the Human population is thinking. It's right there in the word, "popular". -And hyper-popular is not an overstatement when it comes to these superhero films. The most recent of which is on track to becoming one of the highest grossing films ever. The average convenience store clerk, bus driver, school teacher and accountant all have opinions about Thanos and Captain America. Seriously. I've asked them!

Beyond that.., superheros are very near neighbors to religious figures; in the West, it might be argued that they occupy the same place in culture as did the mythological heroes of old. They are powerful archetypes, perfect examples of various human qualities everybody can universally reference as the top of the mountain and strive toward.

Carl Jung would have a field day pulling apart the MCU, I'd guess.

So when everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, knows Superman's origin story, we know we are clearly dealing with more than just a silly comic book character. There are plenty of once super-famous Hollywood actors who have been long forgotten. Plenty of lesser characters. Even Mickey Mouse is only a vague smear of an idea at the best of times. Where did that creature come from? Who were his parents? What is his deal? But god help us, Clark Kent fell from space as a baby, was found by a simple farming couple and raised as their own. He grew up to be Superman. Kryptonite is his weakness. He is Good.

If that gives you shivers, then you're connected.

Tell me one thing everybody knows about any other character or actor who isn't a super hero comic book character. (Though, I'd argue that Wile Coyote occupies the same territory.)

Like it or not, these illustrated characters and animated ideas, dream figments, are our gods and mythological heroes today.

And the fact that they are being dismantled and cut down is rather foreboding, imho.

If you want to dominate a people, take away their religion. Broadly speaking the comic book cast might be thought of as serving in the same spiritual capacity for atheists. -Though, they serve both the religious and non-religeous. But even if a person doesn't read super hero comics or pay attention to the films, knowing that Superman is being corrupted and pulled into the filth is going to have some impact on the average person's psyche, I would bet.

 

[Bluegazer]

Lana Wachoski really went full SJW

Do not you get the impression that the Wachowski brothers were completely co-opted by you know ... them?

Like it or not, these illustrated characters and animated ideas, dream figments, are our gods and mythological heroes today.

But the same writers of comics admit it. They are based on the ancient mythology. Especially the DC universe.

Now, we are forgetting something, and that is that there are works of fiction that have their inspiration in higher densities. Remember the Wizard of Oz.

 

[Bluegazer]

Quite a while ago I had in my mind to write about something that has not stopped calling my attention and I wanted to share with you.

When I came to the material of the C's and Laura's work, it was there that I had an introduction to the Sufi concepts of the names of God. Without going too far into the works of William C. Chittick - since I don't have the books and I only use the quotes that Laura makes - I understood that names of noble character, and those of abject character are the basic expressions or fundamental archetypes of creation that emanate from the thought centers.

Now if you wonder what it has to do with the marvel universe, a universe of fantasy comics... is that in a way that particularly impacted me is to find in the cosmology of this universe how its structure, foundation and functioning has a relationship or rather similarity of concepts.

A not very rigorous analysis reveals that the marvel universe handles the idea of the COSMIC ENTITY/CONCEPT. That is, an abstract entity that is conscious of itself and that in turn is representative of a universal concept or idea.

For example, in the marvel universe there is the concept of ETERNITY and it has a sister or brother: INFINITY. At the same time we have the exact opposite: LADY DEATH and ENTROPY.

All actions and events that occur in the marvel universe are operated by these concepts and have direct or indirect influence on all characters, both heroic and villainous. All the plot arcs and dramas both human and universal have their answer in these cosmic concepts.

In view of this information, we should ask ourselves if in some way the writers of the Marvel universe are fully conscious of their work and deliberately insert in a fictional manner an esoteric teaching? Or is it that because of their creative potential they have channeled information that turns out to be incredibly and possibly correct when compared to esoteric teachings such as those we can read for example from Michael Topper or Ibn 'Arabi? Could it be that these elements that are so ingrained in pop culture can really offer a guide for those who can see the unseen?

Here is the list of characters/concepts that give birth to the marvel universe:

Cosmic entity (Marvel Comics) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the image that shows the hierarchy, and to explain a little what the interaction is, for example in the section of Cosmics Abstracts Eternity & Infinity together form [Need] while Oblivion & Death form [Revenge]. Necessity and Revenge are in turn the faces of the Living Tribunal.

 

[Alejo]

Hi Bluegazer,

Thanks for the rundown, I don’t think I know enough about the Marvel Universe, I think I’ve only watched the movies, so my input will be very limited, having said that, I have considered this to a certain extent.

In view of this information, we should ask ourselves if in some way the writers of the Marvel universe are fully conscious of their work and deliberately insert in a fictional manner an esoteric teaching? Or is it that because of their creative potential they have channeled information that turns out to be incredibly and possibly correct when compared to esoteric teachings such as those we can read for example from Michael Topper or Ibn 'Arabi? Could it be that these elements that are so ingrained in pop culture can really offer a guide for those who can see the unseen?

The way I see it with my limited understanding, it could be a combination of all. So essentially there are the archetypical/names of god concepts that belong to our collective consciousness that by default will filter down to the stories we write.

Things like opposing/balancing forces that are at the top of the hierarchy and battle for power constantly through lesser entities, I think that is visible on most of the stories that reach popular culture, like Star Wars for instance or The Matrix or the Lord of the Rings. And those stories then influence newer ones.

I also think that Marvel took some inspiration from existing mythology, probably one of the most visible nowadays is the Norse mythology with Thor and Loki and Odin, so if that mythology had those elements within, even if unintentionally, they would’ve filtered through.

Then there’s the other aspect where creative inspiration might align you with certain ideas and so the information comes through in this way also.

The interesting thing about these stories is that, when they root themselves deeply and widely enough, even if intended or not, they tend to become part of the repertoire of stories that contain teachings about life in general, and some esoteric principles as well. If the stories can represent the ideas clearly enough for people to identify themselves in them, inspiration follows I think.

Captain America, for instance, a simple comic character, can becom an ideal of strength of will and faith with all that those two words mean, does that make sense? The righteous man who does what’s right in the face of evil, where others will fail he succeeds by sticking to his principles.

And the question, to me at least, is whether a character as such brings the principles into our awareness or embodies them and simply reminds us of their existence.

My two cents.

 

[3DStudent]

Isn't any good fiction based somewhat in reality? If not, then it doesn't really tell a relatable story. I'm only familiar with the Marvel movies, so this is more lore than I understand. But I'd think that they would have done research from various cultures and myths and used that to make their characters and concepts. So they may be aware of these higher realities or they may just think they're making up good stories from the tried and true.

On a related note, I saw something that said that Avengers: Infinity War has somewhat come true. With so few people outside, it seems like someone has snapped their fingers. No doubt we're moving on to Avengers: End Game, so there may be some balance coming. This part of the soundtrack is motivating :

 

[Palinurus]

A similar subject was discussed in another thread: They uncover the game in Captain Marvel a little. Maybe one of the mods can merge the two?

In that other thread, Session September 21, 1996 is quoted about the "subselect trainees of Thor's Pantheum" which is still highly relevant here as well, IMO.

 

[Bluegazer]

Maybe one of the mods can merge the two?

Probably. At least with this thread, I wanted to expand on those ideas and investigate given the similarities.

 

[mkrnhr]

Threads merged.
I'm not familiar with marvel and haven't seen any of the movies. However, it doesn't surprises me that some themes, or maybe the meta-themes of the stories are related to some univeral archetypes. After all, the universality of these archetypes, being a condesation of human experience, material and immaterial, makes them somehow inescapable. A possible question maybe would be whether it is possible to write a meaningful story that doesn't correlate to any known archetype, without being a forgetable piece of propaganda. OSIT

 

[Turgon]

In view of this information, we should ask ourselves if in some way the writers of the Marvel universe are fully conscious of their work and deliberately insert in a fictional manner an esoteric teaching? Or is it that because of their creative potential they have channeled information that turns out to be incredibly and possibly correct when compared to esoteric teachings such as those we can read for example from Michael Topper or Ibn 'Arabi? Could it be that these elements that are so ingrained in pop culture can really offer a guide for those who can see the unseen?

I tend to think similarly that Marvel has borrowed from a lot of other existing mythologies and incorporated it into their overarching universe but aren't necessarily fully conscious of it. Tolkien for example, used to read a lot of mythology - Norse, Scandinavian, etc. sometimes in their original language. The Kalevala being a big inspiration for his work. And because he felt that England didn't have that kind of ancient mythos, went about creating one and building a world that he would have wanted to read about.

These are my thoughts on it, which is subjective, but there are certain stories and concepts that really speak to those who are searching for truth. And a good story tells a universal truth and teaches us valuable lessons about ourselves and the world around us. And I think if anyone is 'channeling' to write a really good book, novel, movie, etc. is somehow tapping into this. And archetypes are almost like the full expression or embodiment of the mode of being they represent.

Marvel has done similar things and focused on the never-ending struggle between good and evil as manifestations of the many 'faces of god' and have created characters to embody those manifestations. I'm biased here, having grown up a total comic book nerd but thought some of the movies were superbly done. Thor was an almost tragic Shakespearean figure in that he starts out as young and arrogant with no restraint in his actions or thoughts to the consequences. The classic archetypal hero who hasn't learned the essential lessons and what it means to become a good king yet.

But he's cast down, loses his powers and becomes mortal, almost like diving into the underworld or belly of the beast to find the lost father. And in doing so and facing that hardship, he discovers he's more than what he was and once he comes to understand what self-sacrifice means and embodies that in his actions, ascends to a new level. Even then, he still loses so much in the process and ends up casting off one archetype once he learned the lessons only to take on a new role commensurate to his growth. You could say, the face of 'god' that acts through him also changes with him as well.

Although identity politics has started to slither its way into Marvel. It's shown itself in a few of its later movies and some of the comics they are writing. I haven't read a comic book in two decades so I don't know what the quality of stories are like anymore and as a teenager it was more of a fun distraction and didn't have any big impact on me the way that Tolkien's work did, but whatever creative spark is still left in the company will probably suffer and disintegrate the more they move away from telling archetypal stories.

 

[Bluegazer]

I think you're going to find this fascinating. It's from the following comic book: Homo erectus from Uncanny X-Men Annual Vol 1 1989.

Wanderers (Earth-616)

5 appearance(s) of Wanderers (Earth-616) 1 member(s) of Wanderers (Earth-616)

marvel.fandom.com

One year, those two encountered in the Paradise the "Tribe of Mighty Set", Serpent-Men in disguise, offering them a better life in exchange for their obedience, the murder of their tribe and help to approach the Space Gods bringing gifts.

The Wanderers rejected the offer and truth was revealed. Retreating, the Wanderers reached their tribe and returned into battle to drove the Serpent-Men out of the Garden.

First Host of the Celestials

As the battle finished, the Wanderers could witness the First Host of the Celestials arriving in their starship, escorted by Gaea who smiled to the tribe, urging them to accept the gifts of the aliens.

Gammenon the Gatherer took in appeased Wanderers, while the Serpent-Men tried to offer themselves, hoping their more evolved mind would favor them over the mammals, and were drove out of the scene by Arishem the Judge.

The Celestials altered the genetic makeup of the Pre-Men, creating the unstable Deviants who fled into hiding underground, the immortal and powerful Eternals who literally fled out, and finally remaining Wanderers, who were left to evolve naturally into humans but granted latent genes that would eventually turn them into superhumans.

 

[Bluegazer]

I keep connecting the dots.

I'm reading the Wave, this part that says:

Nevertheless, the tradition has been passed down that the holy names were not merely symbols because words spoken “in the name of Jesus” or in the name of the “Father, son and holy spirit” were supposed to have absolute efficacy in expelling demons. The Christian church taught that no demon could be exorcised before his own name was known, following the example of Jesus who demanded to know the names of the devils that were possessing the Gadarene. We can see that there is a key in this “shadow of the truth”. If these ideas are twisted perversions of the idea of Knowledge and Wisdom as the giver of all good things and protector of mankind, then we come face to face with the realization the NAMING something is to KNOW it. And, by the same token, naming it is to separate it! In the passage quoted from Genesis about the creation of the world being accomplished by Naming things, the thing that we really need to notice here is that the “let there be light” business was essentially the fact that “God separated the light from the Darkness” by NAMING them.

Now enter the universe of Marvel and the Snake Men:

The Serpent-Men are the spawn of Sligguth, son of the Elder God Set, created about one-million years ago to serve Set on Earth. They are considered spawn or creations of Set himself on occasion.

Though having been seemingly annihilated during the Pre-Cataclysmic Age, first by early Man (using the sentence Ka Nama Kaa Lajerama, discovered by a Pict shaman, the Snake People automatically reverting to their true forms upon hearing it), then by the Atlantean warrior-king Kull of Valusia, then during the Hyborian Age by King Conan of Aquilonia and his son Prince Conn, the Serpent-Men kept surviving and plotting, into the Modern Age.

Regarding the words Ka Nama Kaa Lajerama:

Serpent Men (spawn of Set)

A curious limitation of the Serpent Men is that they cannot speak the words "Ka nama kaa lajerama." This phrase--referred to by the Serpent as the Words that Unweave causes them pain and universally forces a disguised Serpent Man to reveal his true nature. In some cases it has proven sufficient to actually drive off a squad of Serpent Men. Apparently the phrase can only affect the Serpent Men if they can hear it, and on at least one occasion a group of Serpent Men were able to avoid exposure by plugging their "ears" with wax.

Are we looking at something really significant here?