The Meaning of Modern Holidays

[Myth of Myself]

I was curious as to how you folks view holidays. I was having a discussion tonight with my wife (who is 5 months pregnant) about the meaning of holidays and how the majority of them deal with celebrating aspects that neither of us relate too.

For instance, celebrating Easter by telling children that there is a giant bunny that lays chocolate eggs is rather odd to our current perspective. That's not to say we aren't imaginative people, it's just that we don;t feel comfortable peddling bullshit to our child to be.

We also discussed Christmas, and it seems it was just as odd. The idea of lying to children and telling them that there is a man with a long white beard who is watching them at all times and making a list of the naughty boys and girls so he can determine which ones are worthy of presents.

I mean come on, it seems to us nothing more than a precursor to accepting Christianity.....

By traditional standards in accordance to the Christian doctrine, in adulthood, a man with a long white beard is sitting on a throne making a list of who gets to go to heaven or hell.

We were tinkering with the notion that popular holidays are void of any real meaning. The ancient meanings have been lost to our modern way of expressing ourselves, "buying stuff". These holidays have been inherited much like all the other ills of our modern society. What is the meaning of a celebration wherein one has to purchase items to even participate? It seems to me to be a clever means of perpetuating consumerism and nothing more.

Why not have a Christmas celebration where you stay in your pajamas for three days while the sun is at it's stationary point in the sky, eat the candy you all made together and the harvest of the previous autumn while reading your favorite stories to each other. We were thinking of making this our new celebration of Christmas. And in many ways it would mean so much more than what it has become in our odd transitory society.

I am interested in your opinion on this matter.......

 

[Laurelayn]

Why not have a Christmas celebration where you stay in your pajamas for three days while the sun is at it's stationary point in the sky, eat the candy you all made together and the harvest of the previous autumn while reading your favorite stories to each other. We were thinking of making this our new celebration of Christmas. And in many ways it would mean so much more than what it has become in our odd transitory society.

I think this would be a wonderful tradition for a young family. and make your own stories based on personal histories too, create your own oral traditions based on your own experiences.
Winter holidays usually get me depressed and feeling pathetically inadequate.
I really like your pajama/candy/harvest idea and actually have a glimmer of anticipation for that idea for something to do with my grandchildren. Maybe write a book based on my favorite stories about their parents and grandparents and beyond.
Many children these days have no clues about their personal genealogical histories, unplugging and just talking and listening as storytelling inspires would IMHO encourage them to listen, pay attention and be interested in more of the world.

 

[Bobo08]

At Christmas last year, Laura wrote this article about its real meaning. Maybe it should be read again?

 

[gwb1995]

I have struggled with this for a very long time. I think that the only way to handle the 'holiday season' is to start being honest with ones self first, then applying it to everyone else involved. I am no longer able to fake being 'Happy' about the Holidays! I know they are nothing but commercial means, contrived by 4d beings, etc., to consume maximum feeding from all of us here in 3D.

Why do so many of us feel the need to continue feeding 4D STS when it comes to the Holidays? Why are we not willing to stand up and say, 'enough'? Is it that we are not really committed to the work and what we pretend to be? I don't know the answer. I only know that I am finding it all quite crazy, when I look at what I have learned to this point and compare it to all the 3D events associated with the Holidays.

I remember hearing how the lies about Santa Clause are 'OK' because it is 'good for the kids' as it gives them happy memories to build upon. Our current world has built a huge vault of movies, stories, and myths around these lies, all in the name of creating 'Happiness for the children'. It is nothing but feeding the lies of 4D STS (IMHO). When do we start telling the truth?

If we can't start over, elimanating these programed events, and teaching our children the truth; then what can we expect to happen when it comes to our own futures? I think that it must start with ones own self first, and then we can begin to teach the truth to our children.

Just my thoughts,

gwb

 

[Bobo08]

I have struggled with this for a very long time. I think that the only way to handle the 'holiday season' is to start being honest with ones self first, then applying it to everyone else involved. I am no longer able to fake being 'Happy' about the Holidays! I know they are nothing but commercial means, contrived by 4d beings, etc., to consume maximum feeding from all of us here in 3D.

Hi gwb,

I think a bit of caution is in order here. It's one thing to see the holidays as meaningless. But it's quite another thing to start "applying it to everyone else involved". "Everyone else" may well have a different view about it.

[quote author=gwb]
Why do so many of us feel the need to continue feeding 4D STS when it comes to the Holidays? Why are we not willing to stand up and say, 'enough'?
[/quote]

What do you mean by "stand up and say 'enough'"? Stop celebrating the events altogether and deprive your children of the joys they derive from the holidays? And make yourself look a bit "odd" to everyone around in the process?

I think two things are involved here: free will and strategic enclosure. Your children, for instance, are unlikely to find Christmas meaningless. So it is a violation of their free will to stop celebrating it. As for the latter, you are still living in this world. Hence, it is not very wise to appear too different from others. Instead, maybe try to find the real meanings to the events and celebrate them inwardly with yourself? Laura's article that I linked to in the previous post is a very good example of that. Or simply take it as an opportunity to get out of everyday routine and be with your family.

 

[Hildegarda]

We were thinking of making this our new celebration of Christmas. And in many ways it would mean so much more than what it has become in our odd transitory society.

Holidays always end up being a strange mix of things happy and sad\reflection-inspiring. All the birthdays and anniversaries in my family are close together in winter, interspersed with Christmas, New Years etc. The passage of time is so evident during this season and that makes me feel a bit fragile. Consumerism grates one one's nerves quite a bit too.

That being said, I am looking forward to the holidays. I grew up in an atheist culture and never fully absorbed the religious meaning of it. As a result, the Christmas \ New Year season has always been a personal thing, a point in a cycle, like noon or midnight are to a day. Aesthetically, it's beautiful and at times so naive and kitschy, it's poignant. Presents ... we just time the important purchases for kids and family to this time; for ourselves, a trinket, a thought that counts.

I think you are right: creating personal and family traditions is the way to infuse the holiday season with real meaning. Togetherness and sharing is in the end what your family will remember. I went a more traditional path along these lines over the years. E.g., the other day we have raided the library and got all the cool Christmas books, beating the rush. On Thanksgiving weekend we will put the tree and the decorations up, so that it's there for my birthday. When we have a first real snow, we'll hang our paper cutout snowflakes. I'll bake my three kinds of cookies: lemon-almond, oatmeal orange, and chocolate gingerbreads (will have to come up with some gluten-free recipes this time). Night time walks around the neighborhood to see the lights people put up, and a light show to attend, with hot chocolate at home afterward. A Nutcracker performance, to watch and to participate in. Organ and choir concerts. Will put up our own concert performance in the family, with music, poetry recitals and may be even dancing. In the mall, skip the Santa pictures, but ride on a kiddie train for $1. Will make Moravian stars again, and the five-pointed ones out of foil. Etc.

Ok, I am busted. I DO like the holidays, even though I keep saying "it's all for the kids". :)

At Christmas last year, Laura wrote this article about its real meaning. Maybe it should be read again?

Thank you so much for re-posting this article. This quote is especially relevant:

And so it is in short and long time scales. Remember: it is the character of the season is to return everything to formless chaos so that the universe itself can work with the formless energies and re-create itself anew...

And how does this apply to you, to anyone who wishes to replicate the Winter Solstice-New Year archetype?

Have a bit of egg-nog or a hot toddy and some good fun with people you care about is the way to go! Create a feast, hang some lights up, put up a tree just for the sheer enjoyment of it, and know that the world is as it is because that is the way things work. During this brief period of darkness and chaos, you can effectively reproduce the Hieros Gamos - the sacred marriage of giving and receiving love.

This is what I will do this year -- will reflect more on the meaning of the Winter Solstice, strive to self-observe and be more conscious about why I do things the way I do them, and why I feel the way I do during this time.

Another challenge will be to cut out the fake and the programmed parts of the holidays (e.g., the necessity of sending Christmas cards to everyone and their brother has to be re-evaluated, keeping in mind both your real relationships with those people, and a necessity for a strategic enclosure)

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Hello:

This is interesting because my spouse and I had this discussion a couple of nights a go as well. Well… regarding the celebration of X-mas anyway.

It was brought up because I asked him to grab a fake x-mas tree and a lot of ornaments and x-mas gear I had left at his parent’s garage in storage. Because for the past 3 or 4 years I didn’t put up a tree or celebrate x-mas. We did small gift exchanges but that was about it.

The reason I stopped celebrating the holidays was because I came to the same realizations as you have. That it is a fake holiday, made by a fake society to indoctrinate its people. When I stopped celebrating Christmas, it affected the people around me. Like my mom, she kept thinking I was depressed and really odd.

I still believe in the fact that the holidays are run by corporations and it’s a whole feeding dynamic for a lot of people. But this year, I’m approaching it at another angle.

For one thing, I really like putting up the Christmas tree, and xmas decorations. It always used to be sort of an art project for me. But than, my bitterness at the holidays stopped me from enjoying any of it. Even if it was a small thing like setting up a Christmas tree, which I used to really enjoy doing. My bitterness also affected people around me negatively, which is something I didn’t intend to do but it happened because of my non-external consideration for other’s beliefs.

I just think there should be a balance in everything. I have the knowledge of the true meaning of Christmas, and I think that’s the most important thing. To know in your heart, but not force your opinion on others (the way I did to my mom) and also deprive yourself of the niceties it involves. Like decorating, baking, kicking back with good family and friends around the fire and sharing stories. But you don’t have to comply to the corporate side of it... or at least try not to :P

 

[Meg]

I was curious as to how you folks view holidays.

This best sums up my view :D Though, dancing isn't my forte...

To paraphrase the saying, this holiday season, play like a child, dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt; sing and laugh like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth.

And maybe one day, it will be...

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/146047-Winter-Solstice-From-Chaos-to-Creation

 

[gwb1995]

Hi gwb,

I think a bit of caution is in order here. It's one thing to see the holidays as meaningless. But it's quite another thing to start "applying it to everyone else involved". "Everyone else" may well have a different view about it.

You have miss read my thoughts here, and it is due to my not communicating my thoughts clearly. What I am trying to say is that one must deal with ones self first. Only then can we begin to deal with all those around us. I can't change the views of others, as it would be a violation of their free will, but I can change how I deal with them. This is how one can start applying this knowledge to everyone else involved. Yes, one must use external consideration in this situation and do all that is possible to maintain ones strategic enclosure.

What do you mean by "stand up and say 'enough'"? Stop celebrating the events altogether and deprive your children of the joys they derive from the holidays? And make yourself look a bit "odd" to everyone around in the process?

When I say " Stand up and say enough" I mean just that. I think we can start by teaching children the truth from birth. Why allow them to think or believe things that we know to be nothing but lies? Why would one even consider doing such a thing? Wouldn't this be just passing on the same narcissistic traits that we were programed with as children? I agree that this would be a delicate balance to maintain. It would require parents to teach children some basic knowledge about external consideration. I am not suggesting that one should block off their child from the world and those around them who are unknowing or unaware of what this universe is about. They can go to parties, receive gifts, and attend all events that they desire to attend. If they are raised and taught the truth from birth, they will be able to deal with what may confront them in an honest way.

I remember how difficult it was for me as a child, when I was faced with someone who was different than myself. I adapted based on what I had been told at the time. I think this would be the same for any child who is raised in a truthful manner. They will adapt and move on. (OSIT)

I think two things are involved here: free will and strategic enclosure. Your children, for instance, are unlikely to find Christmas meaningless. So it is a violation of their free will to stop celebrating it. As for the latter, you are still living in this world. Hence, it is not very wise to appear too different from others. Instead, maybe try to find the real meanings to the events and celebrate them inwardly with yourself? Laura's article that I linked to in the previous post is a very good example of that. Or simply take it as an opportunity to get out of everyday routine and be with your family.

I think I have addressed this above. I am not saying that one should try to undue anything that has already happened. I am questioning why people don't start changing now and moving forward.

 

[Bobo08]

When I say " Stand up and say enough" I mean just that. I think we can start by teaching children the truth from birth. Why allow them to think or believe things that we know to be nothing but lies? Why would one even consider doing such a thing? Wouldn't this be just passing on the same narcissistic traits that we were programed with as children? I agree that this would be a delicate balance to maintain. It would require parents to teach children some basic knowledge about external consideration. I am not suggesting that one should block off their child from the world and those around them who are unknowing or unaware of what this universe is about. They can go to parties, receive gifts, and attend all events that they desire to attend. If they are raised and taught the truth from birth, they will be able to deal with what may confront them in an honest way.

Well, I know you didn't see it but what you wrote is extremely narcissistic and full of self importance. Based on just this post alone, you don't know what the truth is, far from it. When you teach your version of "truth" to your children, you would be doing exactly that: "passing on the same narcissistic traits that [you] were programed with as [a child]" Your children are separate human beings, not an extension of you. As such, they need to be allowed to experience and learn their own lessons. I think you should follow your own advice here: deal with yourself first before attempting to change those around you, especially your children.

 

[rrraven]

bobo08 wrote

When you teach your version of "truth" to your children, you would be doing exactly that: "passing on the same narcissistic traits that [you] were programed with as [a child]" Your children are separate human beings, not an extension of you. As such, they need to be allowed to experience and learn their own lessons. I think you should follow your own advice here: deal with yourself first before attempting to change those around you, especially your children.

one can only ever teach ones children ones own 'version ' of truth
they learn by watching and listening to everything you do/say
are you saying one should not teach them anything at all so they can 'experience and learn their own lessons'?
and leave them at the mercy of advertising and Hollywood and the MCS ???

i remember that i worked out myself that 'santa' wasn't real when i was 4.
mind you,i didn't know about time zones or non Christmas celebrating countries but i figured that one person couldn't possibly see every kid in the 'whole' world in one night... this was long before Hollywood pushed the magic thing ... and my parents did say yes that's true, but please don't tell any smaller kids that still believe in santa ,it would spoil their fun and i had no problem with that
we still had the tree , one of the 20 or so my mum had planted along the driveway,it got dug up and potted and replanted after new year, the decorations were home-made too,hazel and walnuts we painted gold and silver and home baked cookies.
later when i was older i got to help make the cards too, lino cut prints with a christmassy theme and all the presents for the relatives where things we 'mass produced' like painted wooden spoons with hooks for key holders,little silk cushions,
string dispensers in the shape of nutcracker soldiers/santas.... i always looked forward to the arts and craft projects my mum came up for for the season.
these days with my own,now mostly grown kids , any presents ,if at all,are useful things we needed any way like socks/underwear and stuff
and since this is Oz where it is HOT we have a picnic down by the creek with prawns and mangoes for lunch
Being German born i find it funny to have chrissy in summer anyway, its so much easier to celebrate summer solstice instead ,the kids are pagan raised(my version of truth i know)anyway and 'santa' is as pagan as they come :P the reindeer are a give away, he is a Siberian shaman and everybody climes down the ladder that goes up to the smoke hole of the hut in winter, its the only snow free entrance :D
and wears fur lined clothes not to mention the whole flying reindeer mushroom theme with the white beard stolen from Grandfather Frost, the other winter archetype still celebrated in Steiner schools

RRR

 

[Bobo08]

one can only ever teach ones children ones own 'version ' of truth
they learn by watching and listening to everything you do/say
are you saying one should not teach them anything at all so they can 'experience and learn their own lessons'?
and leave them at the mercy of advertising and Hollywood and the MCS ???

Hi rrraven,

My post was in response to gwb, specifically to his proposal of teaching the children from birth and not allowing them to think or believe anything that is not "truth" (shudder).

I certainly agree that as parents, we are responsible for guiding our children. But I think we should do it only very gently, in the form of guidance and suggestion (unless in some limited cases that cannot be compromised). And most importantly of all, we should work on ourselves first. Children learn mostly what we do, not what we say.

Now come back to the topic of this thread, holidays. To me, the main problem with them is not the meanings behind the holidays, but their commercialization. I don't see any problem if my 6 year old believes that fairies really exist. In fact, I think it is a bit cruel to tell her now that it's all lies. She will figure it out later on her own. On the other hand, I would be slightly concerned if she wanted all the latest toys promoted on TV at each holiday. Fortunately, she doesn't.

 

[Hildegarda]

Our current world has built a huge vault of movies, stories, and myths around these lies, all in the name of creating 'Happiness for the children'. It is nothing but feeding the lies of 4D STS (IMHO). When do we start telling the truth?

Which truth? That there is no Santa, everything about Christmas is an evil lie, there is no point in celebrating anything, and all they see around them this holiday season is a farce?

This is only one side of the truth, I think. The other is expressed in some of those movies, stories, and myths too. The story of Grinch Who Stole Christmas by Dr. Seuss comes to mind:

Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn’t before!
“Maybe Christmas,” he thought, “doesn’t come from a store.
Maybe Christmas … perhaps … means a little bit more!

;)


Besides, this year, it will be very easy to resist the consumerism because of economic problems, and that too will force people into rediscovering more personal and meaningful aspects of the holiday season.

 

[Hildegarda]

To me, the main problem with them is not the meanings behind the holidays, but their commercialization. I don't see any problem if my 6 year old believes that fairies really exist. In fact, I think it is a bit cruel to tell her now that it's all lies. She will figure it out later on her own.

This reminded me very much a quote from one of my favorite books, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn" by Betty Smith. In this chapter, a young mother asks her mother's advice on how to raise her child, how to "make a different world for her", and the old woman responds, among other things:

"And you must tell the child the legends I told you -- as my mother told them to me and her mother to her. You must tell the fairy tales of the old country[..]"

"Oh, and you must not forget the Kris Kringle. The child must believe in him until she reaches the age of six."

"Mother, I know there are no ghosts or fairies. I would be reaching the child foolish lies."

Mary spoke sharply. "You do not know whether there are not ghosts on earth or angels in heaven."

" I know there is no Santa Claus."

"Yet you must teach the child that these things are so."

"Why? When I, myself, do no believe?"

"Because," explained Mary Rommely simply, "the child must have a valuable thing which is called imagination. The child must have a secret world in which live things that never were. [..] She must start out by believing in things not of this world. Then when the world becomes too ugly for living in, the child can reach back and find strength in her imagination. [..]"

"The child will grow up and find out things for herself. She will know that I lied. She will be disappointed."

"That is what is called learning the truth. It is a good thing to learn the truth one's self. To first believe with all your heart, and then not to believe, is good too. It fattens the emotions and makes them to stretch. When as a woman life and people disappoint her, she will have had practice in disappointment and it will not come so hard. [..] do not forget that suffering is good too. It makes a person rich in character." [..]

"What more must I teach my child?"

"The child must be made to believe in heaven. A heaven, not filled with flying angels with God on a throne" -- Mary articulated her thoughts painfully, half in German and half in English -- "but a heaven which means a wondrous place that people may dream of --as of a place where desires come true. This is probably a different kind of religion. I do not know."

a few details notwithstanding, the spirit of it has always been close to my heart.

 

[Myth of Myself]

To me, the main problem with them is not the meanings behind the holidays, but their commercialization. I don't see any problem if my 6 year old believes that fairies really exist. In fact, I think it is a bit cruel to tell her now that it's all lies. She will figure it out later on her own.

This reminded me very much a quote from one of my favorite books, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn" by Betty Smith. In it, a young mother asks her mother's advice on how to raise her child, how to "make a different world for her", and the old woman responds, among other things:

"And you must tell the child the legends I told you -- as my mother told them to me and her mother to her. You must tell the fairy tales of the old country[..]"

"Oh, and you must not forget the Kris Kringle. The child must believe in him until she reaches the age of six."

"Mother, I know there are no ghosts or fairies. I would be reaching the child foolish lies."

Mary spoke sharply. "You do not know whether there are not ghosts on earth or angels in heaven."

" I know there is no Santa Claus."

"Yet you must teach the child that these things are so."

"Why? When I, myself, do no believe?"

"Because," explained Mary Rommely simply, "the child must have a valuable thing which is called imagination. The child must have a secret world in which live things that never were. [..] She must start out by believing in things not of this world. Then when the world becomes too ugly for living in, the child can reach back and find strength in her imagination. [..]"

"The child will grow up and find out things for herself. She will know that I lied. She will be disappointed."

"That is what is called learning the truth. It is a good thing to learn the truth one's self. To first believe with all your heart, and then not to believe, is good too. It fattens the emotions and makes them to stretch. When as a woman life and people disappoint her, she will have had practice in disappointment and it will not come so hard. [..] do not forget that suffering is good too. It makes a person rich in character." [..]

"What more must I teach my child?"

"The child must be made to believe in heaven. A heaven, not filled with flying angels with God on a throne" -- Mary articulated her thoughts painfully, half in German and half in English -- "but a heaven which means a wondrous place that people may dream of --as of a place where desires come true. This is probably a different kind of religion. I do not know."

a few details notwithstanding, the spirit of it has always been close to my heart.

I agree that the imagination is an important thing to encourage and develop in children.

However I also feel that there are enough mysteries on this planet to engage a child with and to spark their imagination without telling them that Santa Clause and the Easter bunny are real and then leaving presents or chocolate eggs from Wal-Mart out for them to find.

Why not spark their imagination with pictures and information of crop circles, the great pyramid, Easter Island, the ancient tales of giants and little folk etc. etc.

I think we have a full plate as far as mysteries go in this human experience without having to deliberately lie to our children for the sake of developing their imagination.

"The most beautiful thing one can experience is the Mysterious. It is truly the basis of all Arts and Sciences".
- Albert Einstein