The New History of Mankind: Who Are we? What are we? How did we get here?

anka

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
There is a copy of Plato, Prehistorian in a library somewhere here (it didn't specify), so I made a request for borrowing it. I'll know more when I get a reply, but if it's a clean copy, I can scan it. Unless someone else already has one and wants to do it. :-) Looking forward to reading these three books!
Luckily enough, I have just found a single second-hand copy in Czech for 20 EUR and contacted the seller. It should arrive by Wednesday (unless someone pays more). Let us know how you get on with scanning it. In case you won't manage, I'll be ready to do the job.

BTW, on Graham Hancock's website there is this interesting article that mentions Mary Settegast's work (Mircea Elliade listed as one of the author's sources too).:

The Religion With No Name
Brian C. Muraresku
April 10th, 2015

...

An Unknown Upper Paleolithic Ancestor

But how far back does this confrontation with death reach? With the authenticity of my feminism in deservedly serious jeopardy, I am relieved to finally highlight the scholarship of the first woman to appear here, Mary Settegast. It is frankly embarrassing how men, both ancient and modern, have cornered the market on these topics. It seems only appropriate that as we examine our pre-literate roots (before writing came on the scene in Egypt and Mesopotamia around 3200 BC), Settegast should lead the way with her phenomenal Plato Prehistorian: 10,000 to 5,000 BC Myth, Religion, Archaeology. In a remote and nearly forgotten episode of our archaic past, just as the Paleolithic was giving way to the Neolithic, something extraordinary has been tucked away, awaiting inspection. An “Upper Paleolithic culture, probably Anatolian, of which hardly anything is known”32 seems to have been in possession of the “secret doctrine”. Exclusively by word of mouth, they managed against all odds to convey the sacred rites by which it was communicated past the boundary of the last Ice Age – 11,500 years ago – where they suddenly show up at the Catalhoyuk site in modern-day Turkey in 7,500 BC.

31078

For the obvious reason that there are no records of this event, where linguists must concede their specialty to archaeologists, the unbelievable antiquity of the spiritual roots of Western Civilization has never been properly considered part of the Classics curriculum (nor part of our history in general). This is prehistory, after all. As a result, few aside from Settegast have ever explored the possibility that the initiations of Ancient Greece trace back in an unbroken, continuous line to the hunters and gatherers of the Paleolithic eastern Mediterranean. The evidence is certainly there, however, for “a thriving center of cult life, one whose shrines were enriched by decorations and statuary which recall the later mystery religions of Iran and Egypt, as well as the Aegean and Anatolia”. Indeed, the findings at Catalhoyuk are seen by Settegast to “suggest that the freeing of the soul in life, the rebirth of the living individual onto a higher plane of being, was the goal toward which the Catal[hoyuk] rites were aimed”.33 We seem to have a match!

Rather than scrapping together a miserable existence, our uncivilized forebears in Asia Minor may have been busy perfecting a ritual that would somehow survive 7,000 years, to be assimilated by a huge swathe of the Ancient Greek world. Only slightly east of the place where democracy and the sciences first came to light, Catalhoyuk – the land of Homer and the Trojan War – couldn’t be better situated. But if a smoking gun is going to emerge anywhere to prove the merits of this theory, my bet is the on-going dig at another site due east named Gobekli Tepe (90% of which remains unexcavated). First opened in 1995, the presence of a ritual complex in the 10th millennium BC has already been confirmed – making this, per the Smithsonian, “the world’s first temple”. Topographic scans have indicated that additional structures waiting to be unearthed could date even further back to 13,000 BC! Was Gobekli Tepe the brainchild of the same unknown “Upper Paleolithic culture” behind Catalhoyuk? Are these the true spiritual ancestors of Western Civilization?


If a Stone Age people really did manage to transmit those secret rites in the absence of written language for thousands of years, then the visionary experience that was their core can properly be termed the longest-surviving religion the world has ever known. Ironically, no one’s ever heard of it. It does not have a name, and perhaps it never did. But if any religion is going to recapture the hearts and minds of a spiritually thirsty generation, this is the one! When the mysteries finally showed up in Ancient Greece – across the most improbable expanse of time – Plato and his disciples were keen to seek admission and initiation. Amazed and transformed by their glimpse of immortality, the creators of Western thought ensured that the tireless efforts of our Upper Paleolithic and Neolithic ancestors did not go to waste. Under penalty of death for exposing the big secret, they nonetheless committed their visions to a language which almost nobody understands today. It was worth the risk for our species to retain memory of the single most unique event a human being could ever experience. This was a serious and cherished experience that worked for their world, and no doubt works for ours – the spitting image as we are of so many Ancient Greek institutions and disciplines. Our society can no longer afford its unexplained ignorance of the “secret doctrine”, something so integral to our founders’ worldview. To dismiss this religion is to deny our birthright, and to totally misinterpret the whole point of Western Civilization. Unlike any other in the history of our planet, this religion has stood the test of time. It is our collective responsibility to acknowledge its influence in our past, to reincorporate it into the 21st century and – in continuing imitation of our ancestors – to carry it forward to those new worlds being birthed in this solar system and beyond.
 

anka

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
And then there is this interesting bit from quiet an unexpected source, DNA Consultants blog:

Plato Prehistorian and Geneticist
June 6, 2010

Mary Settegast is described on the jacket simply as an archeological researcher, the 20-year-old book being Plato Prehistorian; 10,000 to 5,000 B.C. Myth, Religion, Archaeology (Hudson: Lindisfarne, 1990). It’s obvious she is not a member of the entrenched academic community of archeologists and prehistorians, for she spends most of the introduction to her fascinating study inveighing against the Old Model and New Archeology and defending the value of myth. She then retells the Egyptian Priest’s tale from Plato’s Timaeus about how Solon’s ancient Greek ancestors defeated an aggressive Atlantic sea-power situated on a now-lost continent beyond the Straits of Gilbraltar–the so-called Atlantis myth, which has no other source but the writings of Plato.

Her thesis is that Plato is representing what he believed to be historical fact. Among other arguments, Settegast points out that it would have been impious for him to contrive a political fiction and put it in the mouth of Critias, who attributes the story to his grandfather, who received it from Solon himself, given the occasion of the dialogue, a celebration of Athena’s festival day. She asks, “Would Socrates have Critias offer to the goddess as ‘a just and truthful hymn of praise’ (Timaeus 21) an intentional misrepresentation of Athena’s own past history with the Greeks?”

Once Plato’s word and intentions are vindicated it is possible to study the scattered clues he gives us to prehistory of the Mediterranean world in a new light. Settegast makes a good case that the Magdalenian cave art of 17,000/15,000 to 9000 BCE preserves the fading glory of an Atlantic culture of enormous power and sophistication that came to an abrupt end toward the end of the tenth millennium. She brackets the question of the location of a sunken continent and dwells instead on the blunders of modern prehistorians who fail to grasp the advanced picture of civilization left to us in Paleolithic remains like the Lascaux paintings.

31079

Upper Paleolithic writing recovered from Magdalenian cave sites (top) compared to characters in three early written languages: (b) Indus valley signs, (c) Greek and (d) Runic. Settegast (p. 28) after Forbes and Crowder, 1979.


I’ve just started to read the book and will conclude this “preview” for the blog by mentioning that one obstacle to accepting Plato’s story at face value was that he describes the Atlantics as literate. The recent reevaluation of the “magic signs” in Magdalenian caves as a writing system with heirs in many Old World alphabets seems to bear him out once again…and make his detractors look stupid and full of hubris. It is the effect many Socratic dialogues were meant to have on their readers.


Addendum: One of the offshoots of Atlantic Culture according to Plato Prehistorian was the Çatal Hüyük civilization that flourished in Anatolia from 6200-5300 BCE. Only 2-3 % of the 32 acre site has been excavated, but what has come to light so far includes amazing cyclopean walls, refined wall paintings and peculiar religious practices such as a vulture-bull rite, leopard shrine and Mistress of the Animals cult reminiscent of Venus figurines. It is conceivable that Atlantic Culture itself was spurred to life originally by admixture of Europeans with Neanderthals, since there are numerous signs of Neanderthal culture in archeological remains. Significantly, the Venus figures once associated with Gravettian Culture now appear to have had their origins with Neanderthals, who occupied Europe for 350,000 years before H. sapiens sapiens. Venus figurines were worn about the neck by Neanderthals, as proved in several excavations in Spain and elsewhere. In 1961, archeologists unearthed the skull of a Neanderthal man in the ancient site of Chalcedon on the east side of the Bosporus in Asia Minor, although the find is seldom mentioned today.

Our Neanderthal Index is based on affinities with archaic populations presumed to carry the highest rate of admixture with Neanderthals. These include many of the Atlantic and Mediterranean populations mentioned in Plato Prehistorian, including Greek, Turkish, Syrian, Arabian, Basque, Egyptian and Berber.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Perhaps the differences from the 1st to the 2nd are not so important after all, as the number of pages is the same. I read in one review that some critique of the 1. edition had been taken into consideration in the 2, but then it is also a different publisher. On this page: Plato prehistorian : 10,000 to 5000 B.C. : myth, religion, archaeology (Book, 1990) [WorldCat.org] I checked the various libraries and 2. edition is listed for
Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin - Preußischer Kulturbesitz, Haus Potsdamer Straße and
InfoGuide UB/SB Passau but surely there are more options among the 275 libraries in the world that list this book, so although what is left on the open market is currently around 100 USD and up, there is a rather rich stock in the libraries around the world.

Barnes & Noble had it for $16.24 but it is currently out of stock. Maybe they will get more later.

31080
 

genero81

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Hmmm, if it's out of print, temporarily out of stock might mean permanently out of stock. But that would be nice!
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Well, after reading Witzel, "Plato, Prehistorian" is really important I think, because it sure helps fill in blanks, and creates a bridge of understanding that leads to Mesopotamia and then, of course, to that Yahweh business. It's probably going to be a good idea to read her Zarathustra book because I've read a lot of research that links to his religious revolution as being formative for a lot of things from Orphism, Pythagoreanism, Judaism, Greek religious ideas, the whole nine yards.

What is nice is finding such things in a text that is easy to read and understand for everyone. You don't have to read hundreds of books that go around and around as I have done thus far.

What is also extremely gratifying is how it confirms so many historical clues the Cs have given over the years. As I said, this is the other line of information that goes along with the genetics and Intelligent Design studies we've done here in the forum. And it sure is fascinating to see it all coming together after all these years; it makes me think that things will soon be even more interesting than we can imagine because NOW, we really have done our homework!!!
 

rylek

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
There is a copy of Plato, Prehistorian in a library somewhere here (it didn't specify), so I made a request for borrowing it. I'll know more when I get a reply, but if it's a clean copy, I can scan it. Unless someone else already has one and wants to do it. :-) Looking forward to reading these three books!

Excellent.

Hi all, just catching up with this thread.

I was able to access an electronic copy of The New History of Mankind through my university's library. I saved (printed) and sent it to Laura so this one is available in electronic format. ;-)
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Hi all, just catching up with this thread.

I was able to access an electronic copy of The New History of Mankind through my university's library. I saved (printed) and sent it to Laura so this one is available in electronic format. ;-)

Yes. If anybody can't get it, send me a PM. I'll try to get it on a file sharing place or something in the next couple of days.
 

luc

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Over the weekend I finished "Prehistory Decoded" by Sweatman and I can highly recommend it. Not only does he do some fascinating research into the symbolism of ancient sites, connecting them to cometary impacts, he also gives a crash course in prehistoric climate, catastrophism etc. It's a short read that might be especially useful for those who never delved deep into the topic of prehistory and earth changes or who forgot about some of these things. You get a good overview over the timeline and what mainstream science has to say, as well as some of the most important alternative theories. He tries to stick as close to science as possible, which I find is a good approach. He doesn't have any understanding of hyperdimensional realities, Intelligent Design etc., so I think this leads him to some questionable conclusions, but what he writes certainly made me think about all that. Great little book!

It's also interesting how mainstream science got caught up in yet another dogma: Gradualism and uniformatism. Gradualism is the idea that everything develops slowly over vast timescales, "one sand corn at a time". There is no real scientific basis for that, it's just an assumption that materialist scientists feel comfortable with. And it fits perfectly with all the rest of 19th century science: Darwinism, the universe as a materialist clockwork, slow tectonic shifts, progressivism (everything gets better, more civilized etc.) and so on. It's a whole neat world view. But it's wrong, and of course it ignores the dynamic, non-linear nature of the world and the universe.

Uniformatism means the idea that "how it is today, so it has always been" - that is, by looking at the present, you can come extrapolate into the past. That way, you can fit everything in the materialist-scientific framework: just as you assume the physical laws are always the same at all times, you can assume our environment and the way we experience reality have always been the same. This leaves no room for major disruptive catastrophes, let alone human-cosmic connections, the cyclic nature of civilizations etc. because we don't experience those things right now. It's the error of applying certain ideas about the scientific method to history and human minds.

I also kept thinking about these various ages or eras that are separated by cosmic bombardments - they seem to be "class rooms", environments that seem designed for learning purposes. Sort of Intelligent Design, but of the environment and external circumstances. There seem to be various cycles at play, some bigger, some smaller, with ancient and forgotten civilizations at various levels of development and so on. What seems to happen is that once a "class" gets too crazy, when students start going zombie and the inmates are taking over the asylum, the "school principles" do the only sensible thing: shut the whole thing down and wipe it from history. It is forgotten, and the cycle begins anew... It's more complex than that of course, but if life is a school and all there is is lessons, then these cycles kind of make sense. They create an incredible amount of variety and ways to experience reality and therefore learn and grow - or not!
 

reilpmeit

The Force is Strong With This One
Excuse me from coming out of blue,but hasn't Darwin put his theory as reaction to then common theory that says about origin of other species,that monkeys are coming from wild man?I know it may sound ridiculous (especially today), but if look from spiritual angle,it is really no more ridiculous as theory which says monkeys and humans share common ancestor.But it is not that he and his followers has not agenda. All that stuff about so called age of enlightenment/illumination is really scary.Declaring that only what there exist is,is of matter,there is no possibility of spirit is very dangerous.Many people are blindly proud of "separation of church from state",which is really separation of ruling by/from morality,and is very damaging for them.Look at today's state of philosophy (which in it's truest sense is strife for wisdom). It's nonexistent. There is no trace of wisdom almost anywhere you look. What is so good in blatant materialism? What is so moral about pursuing materialistic things? Are our bodies going to live forever?-No. So why spirit is not of prime importance? Aren't materialistic science and scientists the most effective followers and promoters of illuminati manifesto? Materialistic scientific knowledge is promoted as highest truth. The only thruth and most authoritative one. It all looks like Atlantis 4 rising,and soon there would be downfall . Rule by technotyranny
 

stellar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Just came across this thread and it put a huuuge smile on my face. This topic has been on my mind for weeks and just when I was planning to cross-read a few books, I found this thread. Synchronous? Maybe.

Looked on amazonsmile's list and my smile dropped along with my jaw:

Plato, Prehistorian: 10000 To 5000 Bc in Myth and Archaeology
Plato, Prehistorian: 10000 To 5000 Bc in Myth and Archaeology
by Mary Settegast | 1 April 1987
5.0 out of 5 stars 10
Hardcover
$961.17$961.17

FREE Shipping
Only 1 left in stock.




Plato Prehistorian: 10,000 to 5000 B.C. Myth, Religion, Archaeology
Plato Prehistorian: 10,000 to 5000 B.C. Myth, Religion, Archaeology
by Mary Settegast | 1 January 2000
5.0 out of 5 stars 10
Paperback
$371.61$371.61

FREE Shipping
Only 1 left in stock.


I shall keep looking.:-O
 

Hello H2O

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Just came across this thread and it put a huuuge smile on my face. This topic has been on my mind for weeks and just when I was planning to cross-read a few books, I found this thread. Synchronous? Maybe.

Looked on amazonsmile's list and my smile dropped along with my jaw:

Plato, Prehistorian: 10000 To 5000 Bc in Myth and Archaeology
Plato, Prehistorian: 10000 To 5000 Bc in Myth and Archaeology
by Mary Settegast | 1 April 1987
5.0 out of 5 stars 10
Hardcover
$961.17$961.17

FREE Shipping
Only 1 left in stock.




Plato Prehistorian: 10,000 to 5000 B.C. Myth, Religion, Archaeology
Plato Prehistorian: 10,000 to 5000 B.C. Myth, Religion, Archaeology
by Mary Settegast | 1 January 2000
5.0 out of 5 stars 10
Paperback
$371.61$371.61

FREE Shipping
Only 1 left in stock.


I shall keep looking.:-O

Well at least they give free shipping. :whistle: :-D
 

angelburst29

The Living Force
The Origins of the Worlds Myths by Witzel
Plato, Prehistorian by Mary Settegast
From Yahweh to Zion by Laurent Guyenot

Just doing a quick search before I log off (way past my bed time) and came across this site that might be some help?

Ebook The Origins Of The World S Mythologies as PDF Download Portable Document Format

"The Origins of the World's Mythologies"
© Publishing by ➵ Oxford University Press ♠ Genre ➳ Religion
content
♥ Book Title : The Origins of the World's Mythologies
♣ Name Author : Michael Witzel
∞ Launching : 2012
◊ Info ISBN Link :
9780199812851
⊗ Detail ISBN code : 0199812853
⊕ Number Pages : Total 665 sheet
♮ News id : UALji7FE-1UC

Download FileStart Reading
☯
Full Synopsis :
"Michael Witzel persuasively demonstrates the prehistoric origins of most of the mythologies of Eurasia and the Americas ('Laurasia')."Article| Michael Witzel| Statement ..."
 

stellar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Via that same site:
"Plato Prehistorian"
© Publishing by ➵ no defined ♠ Genre
content
♥ Book Title : Plato Prehistorian
♣ Name Author : Mary Settegast
∞ Launching : 1990
◊ Info ISBN Link :
0940262347
⊗ Detail ISBN code : 9780940262348
⊕ Number Pages : Total 334 sheet
♮ News id : HCSWswEACAAJ

Download FileStart Reading
☯
Full Synopsis :
""Article| Mary Settegast| Statement ..."
 
Top Bottom