Corvus, perhaps you (like many others) joined this forum because you found the topics discussed here interesting, you resonated with much of the information shared, and because you have an aspect of yourself that is curious and eager to better understand the world around you. At the same time, I can assume that another aspect of you is attacking this exploratory and adventurous part of yourself, since instead of embarking on an open dialogue where ideas are exchanged and we all have the opportunity to learn from this exchange, you have dedicated yourself to maintaining a combative, provocative and insulting discourse, in other words, this part of you is trying to win the debate and not learn from it.
These ambiguities and contradictions exist at different levels within each of us. That is what we are, beings who can have the highest ideals, and at the same time succumb to the most pathetic lies. And that is what we try to avoid and learn by participating in this forum, to make ourselves less vulnerable to lies (our own and external). You should not forget that we are all STS in this phase of existence.
Leaving aside pathological subjects, there is what we might call average people who are not essentially evil, but who, either because of their degree of individual development, their experiences, and/or their Knowledge, despite being attracted to altruistic ideals, may be seduced into believing that in order to achieve those ideals one must behave in a certain way (some form of active militancy, attacking "enemies" of their cause, etc.). Look, for example, at the activists who are harassing and assaulting Trump government officials. Many of them may be genuinely concerned about children separated from their parents, and may be mobilized (at least in part) by a genuine desire for justice. Many of these subjects, when they become part of a collective that strongly identifies with an ideology, can do things that they themselves would reprove or at least hesitate to do in a less contaminated context.
A good number of human beings have consciousness, the underlying question (and what can make the difference) may be how sleepy this consciousness is. Lobaczewski says:
This suggests that there is something inherently human that would potentially allow us to challenge the lie and observe reality more objectively, and that this "something" must be manipulated, numbed, or deceived, in order for the human being to behave in an infamous way.
Lobaczewski also says that in a ponogenic process a kind of stratification of the ideology is produced, leaving an external layer closer to the foundational ideas of the ideology, and a more internal and hermetic layer with the ponogenic content. The average person succumbs to the suggestive insinuations of the first stratum, while people with psychological disorders immediately perceive the second stratum as attractive and important. Maybe these seconds fit better into the idea you seem to have, but you shouldn't forget that most people belong to the first group.
. I have still some utopian traces hidden and pushy stuff which leads me to what happened this saturday, I was forcing my son to go out with me to the river, because water level was low (up to knees) and my son fell into a giant sinkhole few meters away from the coast and forgat how to swimm from fear so I had to swimm like hell, the current was really strong, and people were staring at us, it was just bizarre and dangerous. Kid didn't drank the water, he's ok but it's my fault. I swear I will never ever ever force anything again!!! I think that's great example what not to do. I'm the worst (fascist) mom ever!
