The Theory of Primary Water

[Voyageur]

voyageur: you are right of course - the stated agricultural experiments were done with a standard-shaped plow plated with copper, not schauberger's "golden plow" (which he designed later IIRC). i imagine the results would have been even better.

Ok, thanks, so the standard plow it was. It would have been interesting to assess those results from his GP plow. As an operational device, one thing I could see as hampering in some types of soils, would be the GP clogging up with stones or heavy organic matter.

Second (and this is only speculation on my part) I doubt that he had a working 'free energy machine'; this could also have been 'inferred' by wishful thinking of disinfo agents. He went to America to get support for his work. If he had succeded before, he would not have needed support from so far away. Basically, all that happened in America was that he was robbed of his intellectual property rights within a couple of months. He died a few days after he returned to his home. I bet this was a setup of rather dark forces (the usual suspects which prevent useful information to be disseminated to a wider audience). Certainly Schauberger would have benefitted from reading Political Ponerology, if it had been available. I believe (again, just my current impression which might not be true) that his Repulsine was nothing more than a highly effective turbine due to low resistance due to geometry natural to the 'hidden laws' of flowing water. And it could not safely do more than approx. 2000 rpm before the test center (see video) stopped accelerating to not damage it.

This is NOT to say that Schauberger should be ignored. His ideas and technologies are highly interesting and deserve true, open research and wide dissemination in the world.

Have to agree here with your points. Perhaps with future engineering practices and materials, it (his Repulsine) could be seen as something that would be deemed exclusive enough to ensure the patents were secured just in case.

 

[Iconoclast]

i think the repulsine/flying saucer and a possible free energy device are the LEAST interesting things about schauberger.
his findings on the nature and movement of water, forrestry and agriculture are far more interesting.
he certainly changed the way i think about water/nature forever and i'm very thankful for that.

 

[Voyageur]

i think the repulsine/flying saucer and a possible free energy device are the LEAST interesting things about schauberger.
his findings on the nature and movement of water, forrestry and agriculture are far more interesting.
he certainly changed the way i think about water/nature forever and i'm very thankful for that.

These were the main things that caught my interest with him, too, which of course starts to look into the spinning effects, gravity and the properties of water etc. It really is a fascinating subject and one that is not well studied it seems, since Victor put pen to paper and designed some very neat projects and theories. Water course and fluid dynamics (re fish habitat, drinking and stability) seems to be something not well utilized in practices, which is a shame, as the simplicity of its nature and environment, and the care it deserves, makes perfect sense. Nature shows us her secrets if one cares to observe as he did.

I've a feeling that some of our very old ancestors, reaching back many thousands of years, knew a great deal about water and its nature.

 

[James R]

Hi RyanX,

I have a little to add to your questions about Stephen Reiss. My wife and I met him out of curiosity spurred by an article in the Los Angeles Times by Michael Salzman. Salzman authored a book based on the work experience of Reiss as a mining engineer in Nevada. Reiss was a most interesting fellow, and met us at the door while smoking what I would describe as a cigarillo (a cigarette size and shape with a tobacco leaf exterior. He and his wife, Iris, welcomed us into his house in Ojai, California located on Sulpher Mountain Rd. The house was located, as you would expect, at the top of the mountain where Reiss had drilled a well to supply him, his wife and a neighboring property with water. He told us, during our conversation with him, that he was training his son-in-law to prospect for water using his methods. Unfortunately I don't remember his son-in-laws name. If you're really interested, and you're in the general area, you might find out more about Stephen Reiss by visiting Ojai. Perhaps the Ojai Valley Chamber of Commerce might be able to provide you with information by contacting them over the Internet.

One of the things we learned about him was that he was educated in Switzerland, and that one of his professors there was Albert Einstein. Another professor, as he explained it, had shown in his laboratory how to produce crude oil, demonstrating how the Earth does so. It is NOT the result of dead dinosaurs. He also mentioned some of the wells he had drilled, one in the city of Simi Valley and another at the home of the Sparlettes Water Company owner in Ramona, CA.

The book about Stephen Reiss, which I have a copy of, is called "new water for a thirsty world" by Michael Salzman. I believe you can still get used copies of it if you search the Internet.

Perhaps if you answer this post with some questions I'll be able to remember some other details.

Here in California, currently, there is a water shortfall that could be alleviated using Reiss' methods. However, back when Reiss had proposed an alternative to the Feather River Project the politicians, just like today, were captured by lobbyists and had no interest in his methods.

To get a better understanding of the forces of nature, I would recommend anyone reading this, visit any of the YouTube presentations made by Neal Adams on the Expanding Earth. He is a comic book artist that has a penchant for science, as well as the visualization capabilities that accompany his trade as an artist. To me that does a lot to explain how the Earth formed oceans and how water, in general, came into being. The Earth has stretch marks in undersea formations that lend credence to his theories (see Google Earth), which also occur on the Moon and Mars. He has expanded his theories to planets, like Mars and our Moon, based on photographic images from space flights, to show evidence that they are also expanding and have the same stretch marks on their surfaces. It would seem that when planets get to a certain size they naturally begin to form water through transmutation into the constituent elements of Hydrogen and Oxygen, as well as the other elements on the Periodic Table. Obviously this story does not align with NASA's, and other private space companies, objectives to garner public money as funding in their space exploration activities.

Contrary to what NASA and those involved in space exploration would have us believe, if planets and spacial bodies expand over millions of years at some point Mars will naturally create an atmosphere and oceans. But at the present we should be more interested in expanding Earth's water resources and take care of other Earth-like problems. The escapist class is millions of years in advance of any reason to explore Mars with humans who will not have the ability to return to Earth.

 

[Voyageur]

Hello James R,

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[monotonic]

I stumbled upon this page looking through alternative energy information and there are some interesting statements:

Water is an accumulator of energy

There is some evidence that the decrease of water temperature that is a consequence of vortex motion provides the energy to the water that we then see as kinetic energy in the form of increased water velocity. In this way a vortex would transform heat (which is random molecular motion) into dynamic energy (which is motion in a certain direction). Schauberger stressed the fact that water could store enormous amounts of energy by being heated up.

Could this be something that could apply to any kind of vortex, not just water? IE if you are spinning, or you have a spiral in your yard or something, could this be related to the mechanism with which energy is channeled?

This caught my eye because to me it is plausible that a self-organizing flow like a vortex could have an effect at the atomic level to organize atomic motion which would otherwise occur as heat.

It seems that best results were achieved with copper pipes, and that this material caused less resistance to the water's flow than even the smooth glass pipes used as comparison. But the most important datum emerging from these experiments is, that by using a certain spiral configured pipe, based on the form of the kudu antelope's horn, the friction in this pipe decreased with an increase in velocity and at a certain point, the water flowed with a negative resistance.

There are references given in the article to books where this information comes from. I wonder how hard it would be to get a copper pipe from the hardware store and try this experiment? It would certainly be useful in house plumbing to use smaller pipes for a given flow of water.

 

[Iconoclast]

the vortex or 'planetary/primordeal' motion as schauberger called it is indeed powerful and omnipresent.
here is a video visualizing the vortex motion of the solar system. (remember that in addition to the paths shown in the video, the planets themselves do a corkscrew motion on their orbits as well!)

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU

another visualization of the various movements of the earth

 

[Voyageur]

...(remember that in addition to the paths shown in the video, the planets themselves do a corkscrew motion on their orbits as well!)

Indeed, not to mention all the other planetary bodies doing the same around their suns within our galactic plane, and then all the other galaxies and their children spinning simultaneously in whatever it is that it all moves and spins within.

Amazing systems.

 

[MusicMan]

When I was reading the works of Victor Schauberger, I was impressed not so much by the vortices, but by what caused them. He noted that the natural movement of water, and indeed other substances, including solids.. is in the form of BRAIDING. Imagine how a woman's hair is braided and you get the idea - left, right and under, left right and over.
Hence you have the meandering river systems.
This is applied to gases as well, check out "Cloud Streets" on Google, and you see some amazing pictures of earth's clouds from space, as air moves over mountains/islands it forms 'streets' of vortices.
So do rivers moving over rocks, and the more viscous continents, as they move over the magma beneath.
It is interesting that these systems form 'Strange Attractors' and these in turn are Fractal in nature, and can be related to macro systems and to micro systems.
You can see this in the shapes of the continents, and in the movement of masses of air in larger weather systems, as well as oceanic gyres (which seem to collect all the rubbish in the oceans)
I'm sure Ark the physicist would love this stuff.
I wonder if entangled photons are actually 'cloud streets' in microminiature.

 

[monotonic]

If a vortex of water really does exhibit negative resistance, then it could be used with resonators such as specially sized cavities or vessels to generate waves of sound or at any rate motion. It would be the mechanical equivalent to a negative resistance oscillator.

 

[MusicMan]

I watched a vortex of water once, it was a water spout off the New South Wales coast: It was quite silent, mind you I was a mile or two away from it.
Contrarily, I watched waves of water hitting a blowhole at Kiama on the same coastline. The water generated a lot of noise, and the ground shook as it exploded into the air after passing through the blowhole.
This can be harnessed, and I know the Brits have designed and operate wave powered generators off the British coastline.
Other vortices of water I have witnessed have been tidal whirlpools generated in the mouth of Port Phillip Bay near Melbourne. Even though I was on an aircraft carrier at the time, they still called the ship to action stations as the ship passed through, just in case of any mishaps, so I guess there is a bit of power involved with water vortices.
As for negative resistance, I'll leave that to the mathematicians and theoretical physicists.

 

[Niall]

I read this article, where it says:

The primary water theory is similar in the sense that it surmises that fresh water is available in vast quantities deep beneath the Earth's surface. Scientific American says the amounts of water trapped in this "distinct layer in the deep Earth" are comparable to "the sort of mass of water that's present in all the world's oceans."

...and thought 'no way!'

But then I saw this article, also published on Sott today:

Do Earth's oceans come from below? Saturn's Enceladus joins list of moons with subsurface ocean covering entire body

Enceladus isn't the only moon in the solar system to harbor a subsurface sea. Titan, one of Saturn's 60-plus moons, is believed to have a global ocean. There is also evidence of seas on the Jupiter moons of Callisto, Ganymede, and Europa.

 

[domi]

I read this article, where it says:

The primary water theory is similar in the sense that it surmises that fresh water is available in vast quantities deep beneath the Earth's surface. Scientific American says the amounts of water trapped in this "distinct layer in the deep Earth" are comparable to "the sort of mass of water that's present in all the world's oceans."

...and thought 'no way!'

But then I saw this article, also published on Sott today:

Do Earth's oceans come from below? Saturn's Enceladus joins list of moons with subsurface ocean covering entire body

Enceladus isn't the only moon in the solar system to harbor a subsurface sea. Titan, one of Saturn's 60-plus moons, is believed to have a global ocean. There is also evidence of seas on the Jupiter moons of Callisto, Ganymede, and Europa.

Subsurface water also makes underground bases viable. I'm sure the ptb have already figured this out.
Same for adiabatic oil (edit)

 

[Gallo]

Here is a link to Salzman's book on Reiss's work (of course not available in hard copy...)

M. Salzman, New Water for a Thirsty World

 

[heinrich]

Iconoclast's question to the C's regarding water got me thinking about all things water and some of the past research I had done on this topic. Anyways, I thought the theory of Primary Water probably deserved it's own thread.

The Hydrological Cycle

Most scientists today understand that the water we use and drink comes from the hydrological cycle. This is the cycle that involves evaporation, precipitation and then ultimately the accumulation in underground aquifers. It is said that these aquifers that we drill into to obtain our water are supplied solely by water from this hydrological cycle. This is why we are told to conserve our water supplies because the recharge rate of these aquifers from precipitation has a finite limit. Not only that, but since the precipitation has to move through the sky, surface and into the ground, it is going to pick up any pollutants it encounters along the way, thus polluting the aquifers too. This means water supply is not only a factor, but water quality is as well. This is why fresh water is a highly contested resource at the moment worldwide. I'm sure most people are familiar with this story in some form.

Primary Water Theory

There is some evidence to suggest that not all of the water in the world is subjected to the hydrological cycle. Some of the earth's water may exist outside of this cycle, buried deep underground. Water of this sort has been dubbed "Primary Water" because it is suspected that it originates through some chemical process deep within the earth. So what evidence to we have that such a source of water might exist:

_http://merlib.org/node/5063











Stephen Riess then went on to make quite a name for himself in the field of water exploration. It seems that he has discovered a number of such "primary water" sources in the course of his career. A couple examples of ones that are still in use today are:

_http://www.geomantica.com/geom31.htm#13



Another interesting fact about Riess was his work for the Israeli Government:

_http://merlib.org/node/5063



To me, this shows that the elite know that this theory has merit. Perhaps mainstream hydrology is more or less a ponerized front, acting to keep us in the dark regarding other water sources that may bring more health and freedom to the world? For the most part mainstream hydrology is correct in it's assumptions about where to look for water, but they have neglected to study some pretty important anomalies as the above shows.

Possible Mechanism of Generating Primary Water

So the next big question is how could water form beneath the surface of the earth and what other evidence shows that this "Primary water", as Riess and other have supposedly tapped into, actually originates from deep within the earth?

_http://www.eric.com.au/docs/water/primary/eric_primary_water.doc





As far as what Stephen Riess believed:



Conclusions

It seems that there is enough evidence to conclude that there may be deep underground sources of water that defy mainstream hydrology theory. However, the source of these waters and how they are formed or accumulated is largely unknown. Based on Stephen Riess's work for the Israeli government, I suspect that it is known in some circles that water can be obtained from such sources, but it is largely hidden from most of humanity. So as people fight over the remaining poisoned surface waters of the world, perhaps the elite are sitting in their bunkers deep underground drinking water that has been untouched by their pollutants? Something to consider, I suppose.

I find a lot of similarities between the Primary Water theory and the Abiotic Petroleum theory. It seems that mainstream science wants to hang on to the assumption that the Earth is simply a dead rock floating through space that accidentally managed to spawn life. Water couldn't have sprang forth from the earth itself, it had to be deposited by comets or externally somehow. That's not to say some water didn't arrive here externally, but to say this is the only way is quite a limited assumption. The theory of Primary Water, like the Abiotic Petroleum theory suggests that perhaps the Earth has it's own internal mechanisms for supplying its needs and the needs of its lifeforms.

I would be interested to hear how geologists or hydrologists reconcile some of these groundwater anomalies with the current theories on groundwater. Maybe this is all wishful thinking to believe that there is some largely untapped, unpolluted source of water still left in the world. Even if such a water source exists, it might be that for the vast majority of people this sort of water will remain forever out of reach due to geological, economic or political factors. I think it is worthwhile to consider the possibility though.

i also like the mentioning of abiotic oil, and i read that oil is found under granite domes..