The Truth Perspective: UFO Secrecy and JFK with Dr. Michael Salla


FOTCM Member
We know several presidents have had at least a passing interest in UFOs, but when it comes to that most mysterious of subjects, what have they actually known? Did President John F. Kennedy, for example, have any knowledge of the phenomenon? And if so, could that knowledge have played a part in his assassination? How does his short career mesh with what many ufologists think is the reality of an alien presence on earth and the history of the top secret working group allegedly known as MJ-12 that had full policy control over the subject?

This week on The Truth Perspective we'll be talking to Dr. Michael Salla about his book Kennedy's Last Stand: Eisenhower, UFO's, MJ-12 & JFK's Assassination and examining what Kennedy may have known in this area. Salla traces the evidence suggesting a link between JFK and the UFO topic from Kennedy's initial years with naval intelligence in the 40s through to his ultimate demise during his first presidential term.

Salla's conclusions point to the lengths Kennedy was willing to undertake in order to steer the US - and the world - into a much different direction than what we are now seeing: a detente with Russia that would have ended the Cold War. Part of that may very well have included the subject of UFOs, if leaked documents and witness testimony is to be believed. But if JFK had designs on democratizing UFO information and ending the military-industrial-complex's monopoly on control, it may have left him with the most dangerous of enemies.

Dr. Salla's website is

Join us Sunday June 25th for a conversation with the author, from 4-6pm UTC (12-2pm EST, 6-8pm CET).

This is going to be interesting, do tune in!


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Looking forward to the show! I get a lot out of both radio shows, just wanted to let you all know that your efforts are very much appreciated.



The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Arwenn said:
Looking forward to the show! I get a lot out of both radio shows, just wanted to let you all know that your efforts are very much appreciated.

I agree totally. You are an amazing team. Congratulations.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
loreta said:
Arwenn said:
Looking forward to the show! I get a lot out of both radio shows, just wanted to let you all know that your efforts are very much appreciated.

I agree totally. You are an amazing team. Congratulations.
Me too!! This was another super informative show and a really interesting interview. Thank you SOTT radio team :flowers:


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thank you for this interview, it was very interesting! It was interesting to notice how Salla talked about ET:s, "Nordics" etc. quite matter-of-factly, which made me a bit suspicious – was this guys just another con artist trying to sell his books? However, he does appear knowledgeable, and reading excerpts from his books makes it clear, that his theories are based on many public and official records/documents, and testimonies from various whistleblowers. It's of course hard to say how trustworthy these whistleblowers are.

In any case, after having a long pause reading anything on UFO:s and ET:S, I'm now quite curious to read his books! He seems to have come out with a new book since 'Kennedy's last stand', with a title that sounds even more fantastic:

Insiders Reveal Secret Space Programs & Extraterrestrial Alliances (2015)
Link (Kindle):

and a sequel:

The U.S. Navy's Secret Space Program and Nordic Extraterrestrial Alliance (Secret Space Programs Book 2)

Allt this sounds too fantastic to be true, but as they say, truth is stranger than fiction! :cool2:


FOTCM Member
Aragorn said:
Thank you for this interview, it was very interesting! It was interesting to notice how Salla talked about ET:s, "Nordics" etc. quite matter-of-factly, which made me a bit suspicious – was this guys just another con artist trying to sell his books? However, he does appear knowledgeable, and reading excerpts from his books makes it clear, that his theories are based on many public and official records/documents, and testimonies from various whistleblowers. It's of course hard to say how trustworthy these whistleblowers are.
Yes, he draws on a lot of good sources to make his case, but like a lot of this type of information he probably included some information that was incorrect. Still, the overarching points and references in his book seemed consistent with a lot of the research done here.

Aragorn said:
In any case, after having a long pause reading anything on UFO:s and ET:S, I'm now quite curious to read his books! He seems to have come out with a new book since 'Kennedy's last stand', with a title that sounds even more fantastic:

Insiders Reveal Secret Space Programs & Extraterrestrial Alliances (2015)
Link (Kindle):
This one was written drawing on Corey Goode's 'experiences', so if you do decide to read it then certainly do so keeping the The Truth about Corey Goode thread in mind. It's quite possible that despite the good research Salla did on the Kennedy book he's completely off on this and/or other books he's written. So best to question them - as we're hopefully doing anyway.

The following relates directly to what was covered on the show, but certainly there has been much said and researched, before and since, to suggest a deep deep state collusion in the US with 4d sts.,34924.msg496582.html#msg496582

Q: (L) Moving along... recently I read "On the Trail of the Assassins," by Jim Garrison, the New Orleans attorney. This is the book about his investigation into the Kennedy assassination. I know that we asked one or two questions about this earlier, but I think that now, with expanded perspective, we could ask a few more. Was the purported Cuban agenda what was really behind the assassination of JFK?

A: Not in its entirety.

Q: (L) Was there, in fact, any connection between this murder and JFK planning to reveal the government's knowledge of alien interaction?

A: Maybe, or that was feared, based upon a sophisticated psychological profiling system.

Q: (L) One thing that we noticed was that Lee Oswald was 'sheep dipped' in many areas around the country, well before the election of Kennedy. Why would this be the case?

A: Consortium.

Q: (L) What was the intention in using Oswald in this way? Was it just to have a handy person around, or did they already know, in advance, that Kennedy would be elected and that they would assassinate him?

A: Time alteration.

Q: (L) Do you mean time alteration in the sense that these events did NOT actually occur at the noted times, or that they were able to go back in time and do this to put more confusion into the picture?

A: Latter, see Montauk.

Q: (L) Obviously the consortium was operating through the FBI, the CIA, the Mafia, and God knows who else, but, can you tell us who fired the shot that caused JFK's death?

A: No, because it would put you in grave danger.


Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Hey guys, great show!

I was thinking prior to the show, that after having read High strangeness, John Keel, and others that propose a multidimensional component to the ET phenomena, Dr. Salla’s claims must be phony. However, after listening to him during this interview, I have a greater respect. I feel like he is probably being duped somewhere, but his research is mostly real.

My biggest question was: If ET is of 4th density, why would they need to “meet” with a president and make diplomatic agreements? I mean, ET (or ultra-terrestrials as Keel calls them) would have no need for approval from a government to abduct people because—in reality—there is nothing the government could actually do to stop them. So why the elaborate show with Eisenhower? And why would they want to share their technology?

I’m thinking that it must have been some kind of misdirection ploy on the part of the ETs. Like plausible deniability: If the government is flying around in ET technology, then all flying saucers and ufo’s are the work of the government. These are not the drones you are looking for...

I remember the C’s saying somewhere that when an abduction experience is remembered, something went wrong. In other words, most are abducted and have absolutely no memory or idea that something even happened. And, most of the time, it is an ethereal experience, and there is no way any government could protect its citizens in that regard. So maybe ET knew that there would be a few “mistakes” (i.e. claims of sightings and abductions), and they didn’t want the government legitimately looking into it? Maybe that means a lot more people are being abducted than what is claimed since the mistakes are the ones that are talked about. Or, they wanted the government to think that they had more power/control than they actually do.

Another possibility that I thought about was that ET wanted to perpetuate the myth that it is a physical, 3rd dimensional phenomena. If top thinking officials were to start considering anything of an alternative dimension/density, they may question whether humans are still the apex of the food chain. Not being the head-honchos could lead to chaos since humans usually enjoy being at the top.

What do you guys think? After listening to him, I feel Salla is sincere in his work, and his conclusion are logical and make sense, considering the data he uses. But, then again, lies wrapped in truth are the most insidious and destructive of all lies.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I listened to the podcast but I'm not familiar with his work. But yeah, I think the exchange of information in 3D is just "for show". "Let's make the humans think that we're only physical." It fits the human narrative, not theirs. And giving us some technology could be a distraction or like giving a kid a toy to play around with. And it's 3D tech, surely they wouldn't give their "good stuff".


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Okay, I've now read the book by Salla that is mentioned in the title.

First, the book was shorter than I thought, and there's quite a lot of repetition of things, so the informative value was more meager than I had hoped for.

The book contained a bunch of "bombshells", that were based on moderately credible sources/references. However, reading the book, I was left with the feeling that with almost all of these revelations Salla had to either make an educated guess and/or speculate heavily. In some cases the conclusions were plausible, in some not (I wasn't too convinced e.g. by the whole Marilyn Monroe-story). The whole book is heavily based on the MJ-12 documents, and in a sense, Salla's theories will fall like dominoes if these documents are not authentic.

As it is often, it is impossible to say to what degree Salla is on track with his hypotheses, but I was kinda hoping for more "meat on the bones".


FOTCM Member
Here's the transcript of the show:

Elan: Today is Sunday, June 25th and welcome to the Truth Perspective everyone. I’m your host, Elan Martin and joining me in the studio today is Harrison Koehli.

Harrison: Hello.

Elan: And from across the pond we have Joe Quinn.

Joe: Hi there.

Elan: Today we’re happy to have Dr. Michael Salla on the show to discuss his book, Kennedy’s Last Stand – Eisenhower, UFOs, MJ-12 and JFK’s Assassination. Michael Salla has a PhD in government from the University of Queensland, Australia and was an assistant professor, researcher in residence in the School of International Service, American University from 1996 to 2004. He now has a website called and is the author of such books as Exopolitics. Welcome to the show Michael!

Michael: Thank you. Aloha to everyone.

Elan: Aloha. Let’s just jump right in. You piece together some very compelling information from a lot of good sources in your book, Kennedy’s Last Stand, and I suppose a good place to start would be with MJ-12 or the Majestic-12 as it’s known. Can you tell us about how this group got started, what their mandate was, who it was comprised of and the types of things they did? And how do we know these things about MJ-12? What evidence do we have that they existed as a group and actually carried out the activities that we believe they did, Michael?

Michael: Well there are a number of documents that point to the creation of MJ-12 being September of 1947 and that it was President Truman who authorized the creation and he worked with the secretary of defence who at the time was James Forrestal and also he worked with Vannevar Bush who was the chief scientist under both President Roosevelt and Truman during the Second World War and basically Majestic-12 was set up exclusively to focus on all of the issues and the policies concerning extraterrestrial life and technologies that had come into the possession of the US military both during the Second World War and immediately after in events like the Roswell crash and Aztec in 1948.

Really, it is a committee that is very important for understanding the big picture, for how policy is set on this whole issue of extraterrestrial life and technology and as we go through the history of MJ-12 we see that its policies have been mainly oriented towards keeping all of this information highly classified, restricting access to only a very small group within the US military industrial complex where only select individuals would be given access and all of the others, no matter how senior they are in the system, whether we’re talking about the heads of congressional committees, four star generals or admirals, these people would be excluded if it wasn’t deemed that they had need-to-know access.

Elan: Now you explain that part of the reason it was set up that way is to protect the office of the presidency and other parts of the government in case something went awry. So ostensibly this is the dark world of politics and it was compartmentalized and separated from the publicly acknowledged bodies of government and policies that were allowed to be spoken of in public forums.

Michael: Well that’s right, yes. It was definitely something that was set up so that the President could delegate authority on these issues and the policies that were required to pursue various projects concerning extraterrestrial life and technology with the required experts and to compartmentalize it all so that way you wouldn’t have different branches of the US government or the military demanding access. That was really the big problem, that this information and the technology that was being studied was so revolutionary that if too many people got access, the information would be something that couldn’t be controlled.

And I think from the very beginning of the creation of MJ-12 I think they understood that this was information that could not be shared widely throughout the US national security system simply because of the need to study and reverse engineer these technologies, put them into application while at the same time feigning ignorance that such technologies existed and kind of pooh-poohing the whole UFO phenomenon. So that was what MJ-12 did and I think that over the decades they’ve been very effective at it.

Harrison: Michael, I just want to go back a little bit to the documents and the documentation for all this and make a couple of comments on the book. First of all, like Elan said, it is a compelling case that you make and for our listeners, I want to just describe a little bit of the way in which you do it because I believe it was in the 80s that a lot of the leaked – we’ll call them alleged MJ-12 documents for now – first came out and there have been documents that have been leaked to UFO researchers in the years since. So there’s been a controversy among people in the UFO field over whether they’re legit or hoaxed or anything like that and one of the things that I think is interesting and good about your book is that on the one hand you take some pretty good analysis of these documents by like Woods, for example, and Stanton Friedman, who think that a lot of these documents have a high probability of being genuine. But at the same time what you do is weave them in with officially acknowledged documents, and history and I think that’s what makes the case compelling for me.

I consider myself more of an open-minded sceptic when it comes to a lot of these things because I think a lot of them can’t necessarily be proven but I’m willing to accept when a story makes sense, at the very least. So about this trajectory, that when MJ-12 was supposed to have started at the end of 1947, I think the chronology that you paint of the development of this group is very interesting because like you said, there’s this compartmentalized factor to it and when you look at how it was originally set up according to these documents – correct me if I’m wrong – it was originally set up by Truman and he essentially gave himself control over it so MJ-12 was supposed to report directly to him. And very soon after that it looks as if the people involved came to the conclusion that that wasn’t necessarily a good choice for their purposes because administrations change and if a hostile administration or one that they thought was incompetent or wouldn’t do the right thing came into power, they would lose their edge or their control over their goals and what they wanted to do.

So that kind of delegated the authority and put it more exclusively into the hands of the individuals that were part of this organization and then it just spiralled even further from there. So I was wondering if you could describe that process of the development of this group further away from the official levers of power, so to speak.

Michael: Right. Well it is a very important history, and I think most political systems have bureaucrats and committees that deal with public policy issues who are life-long members of the civil service so often these are the committees and the people that presidents or political representatives will delegate to for policy advice and so it’s not unusual that Truman did this, that he set up a committee that would basically give him policy advice on how to handle these issues, and that as time moved on, as different administrations came in and out, this committee of people comprising bureaucrats, senior officials in the military, scientists, that they would see themselves as having the kind of long-term association with these issues that they could better come up with the appropriate policies. So at some point that distinction between giving policy advice to making policy, that that was what was crossed, that this MJ-12 committee ceased to be a committee that merely gave the President policy advice on dealing with these issues, to where it became the committee that actually made the policy on these issues.

Exactly when that happened, I think there’s been a historic evolution of how Truman set it up, Eisenhower struggled with the MJ-12 committee. A few people that have come forward, whistleblowers that say that he had big problems with the MJ-12 committee and even to invade Area 51 with the US army stationed in Colorado, and that under Kennedy we see this actually coming into full-blown conflict where you have a president basically saying to the MJ-12 community “You guys have got to report to me and give me all the information and this is where policy is made and the MJ-12 community say no. We’re the ones that make policy and you shouldn’t interfere in something that you don’t have a need to know.”

So this is really what my book goes into, that Kennedy believed that the office of the President needed to be well in the loop on this issue and actually involved in the policymaking and not just leave it to this unelected committee to make policy.

Elan: Michael, as you were intimating, there were all these kinds of developments and stages and relationships that MJ-12 spiralled away from or moved away from since its inception and you set up a lot of this by introducing James Forrestal, whom you mentioned earlier who was originally secretary of the US navy and would a few years later become the US secretary of defence under President Truman. He became part of MJ-12 and was also kind of, crucial to Kennedy’s understanding of, and involvement with, the reality of the UFOs and the aliens. So I wonder if you can get into Forrestal a little bit. What happened in 1949 with Forrestal because I kind of see his participation and what happened as a kind of foreshadowing of things to come in some sense. So I wonder if you can discuss that a little bit.

Michael: Sure. Actually Forrestal is critical in all of this as he was the undersecretary of the US navy from 1940-44, then he was the navy secretary from ’44-‘47, and then secretary of defence. And the navy was really the lead agency when it came to this whole phenomenon of extraterrestrial life and technology and studying it and Forrestal, from the very beginning, was involved in all the data that the US military had been gathering on extraterrestrial life; the Los Angeles air raid incident, for example, a number of Majestic documents point to that involving the retrieval of a crashed flying saucer and that an interagency group involving the navy, the US army/air force, and some of the leading aircraft companies actually got together to study this phenomenon.

So Forrestal from the very beginning was involved in that. He was the one that proposed Operation Paperclip because he was getting a lot of intelligence. This is something that I more recently learned about; a navy intelligence program that was set up with navy spies reporting back to the US navy’s San Diego facility naval air station about German aerospace programs during the Second World War.

So Forrestal was getting all this information, and so with the conclusion of the war he was the one that recommended Operation Paperclip and he actually travelled over to Germany immediately after the Second World War in July and August to basically oversee some of the German technologies that were very advanced that had some kind of connection to this extraterrestrial phenomenon, to the technologies that had been reported that the Germans were developing.

Forrestal took Kennedy who at the time was just beginning to write articles as a freelance writer. He was a book author. And Kennedy was taken by Forrestal as his personal guest because Forrestal wanted to recruit Kennedy to his personal staff. So Kennedy had direct access to the technologies, the high-level military officials and political discussions that were all taking place in Germany at the time involving Operation Paperclip and Kennedy learned from Forrestal what was going on. He saw these things. He got to write about it in his diary and his diary was posthumously published and later on when Kennedy decided that he would enter politics rather than joining Forrestal in the navy, then Kennedy continued to be briefed by Forrestal who went on to become a key official within the MJ-12 committee.

So Forrestal was very unhappy with the way MJ-12 was setting policies and the policies it had adopted with Truman’s blessing and so Forrestal was telling Kennedy all of this. That kind of sets the background for what happened later.

Harrison: And Kennedy himself during the war was involved in naval intelligence, right?

Michael: That’s right, yes. Kennedy, during the time of the Los Angeles air raid where some of these Majestic documents actually describe US navy intelligence getting possession of a disc that crashed off the coast of Los Angeles, that this was something that Kennedy was exposed to because he was actually working with US naval intelligence at the time.

Harrison: So right from the very beginning of his public and private career in the military, he seems to have been in the right place at the right time. When we look back in retrospect having all these alleged documents, it strikes me as either very coincidental or just the truth that at the very least he was in these places, in the right time, to have received this information. I wasn’t aware of the link with Forrestal before I read your book and that kind of jumped off the page at me. So not only was Kennedy involved with naval intelligence but Forrestal was right there at the top of the navy and they were friends and further on in the book you point out, I believe it was 1963 – was it May? – that Kennedy made a public trip to Forrestal’s grave. Photos were taken. I thought that was very interesting.

That just shows that they had a relationship. They were close on some level and like you said of course, Forrestal was trying to recruit Kennedy. So that provides the backdrop for almost 15 years later when Kennedy becomes President. But maybe we could get into a little bit more about Forrestal because his death is very mysterious, right? So maybe we could get into that and what leads up to that.

Michael: Sure. Forrestal’s background was Irish catholic, a very successful businessman and he was actual personal friends with Joe Kennedy, John F. Kennedy’s father, who was also Irish catholic and also very successful. But they were outside of the establishment, the WASP community, the ones that really held power. So Kennedy and Forrestal, even though they were both very successful, we would regard them today as more in the democratic political side or the democratic spectrum as we know the Kennedy family was, and so they were essentially big believers in the idea of a merit-based system where the best people are allowed to rise to the top and have the influence they deserve because of their own personal skills and abilities whereas the establishment operated on the principle of the old boys’ network, who you know is more important than what you know.

So this was something that both Forrestal and Kennedy were really opposed to. They really did want to have the best people involved at all levels of government. When it got to this secrecy system that had been implemented concerning all of these advanced technologies that the US military had recovered or was in the process of recovering and that the Germans were secretly developing, Forrestal’s mindset was much more focused on “Okay, let’s get the best people involved in studying these technologies and seeing what the appropriate policy should be but we need to circulate this so that we give access to the right people.”

Whereas many of the members of the MJ-12 committee who were more aligned with the New England establishment, that WASP mindset of the old boys’ network, their view was “Here’s some really advanced technologies. Let’s see how this can help us with our agenda” and the idea was that you would just give access to people that were part of your network and what was important was who you knew rather than how much you knew.

So it really was a process of excluding the best people from having this kind of access and this was the policy struggle between Forrestal and others within the Majestic 12 committee that really did want to restrict access to just a very few and Forrestal, having a business background himself, realized that it really was the military industrial community that was wanting to monopolize these kinds of technologies and to develop them for their own benefit. So he was very much opposed to that and struggled against that and eventually that was what led to his being ousted as secretary of defence by Truman in March of 1949 and then two months later being killed simply because he wasn’t going to give up, that even as a private citizen he was still going to reveal what was going on, brief people like Kennedy and others about the true situation.

Joe: Forrestal’s death was pretty suspicious on the face of it, considering all the details, that he was diagnosed with depression or whatever and then put on the 16th floor of the hospital in the VIP suite and then he decided to jump out. There’s a lot more to it than that but his death is very suspicious given who he was. But is there anything Michael, other than the MJ-12 business that you’ve come across that could have led him to have fallen out of favour with people in positions of power in the US?

Michael: That was the issue that really kind of got my attention, that there was something that led to him having a major policy dispute with the Truman administration. To me, I think that that was the most plausible explanation, that he differed in some fundamental policy area, with Truman and others and this is what led to his ouster. At the time people were shocked because Forrestal really was regarded as a national hero because of what he had done during the war so for him to be sacked like that by Truman was major news at the time and there wasn’t any other major policy issue that really struck me that could have led to him being killed like that.

I do want to point out that Forrestal, while he was in that hospital suite, was visited by a number of people associated with MJ-12 and one of them in particular was very important and that was Lyndon Baines Johnson. He actually was one of the people that visited Forrestal in the hospital suite shortly before Forrestal’s murder and in the book I actually make the case that I think Johnson was part of that.

Joe: Certainly can’t imagine any other policy disagreement with the Truman government that would lead someone to want to kill Forrestal, anything so significant that they would take those measures. The only thing that really fits is if it’s got to do with some information about alien technology or something in that domain, assuming that information was available at the time, the idea that someone would be inclined to leak it to the public or at least spread the information more widely beyond the small group of people would be reason enough for those people to want to get rid of the person wanting to do that.

Michael: Exactly. Forrestal being a kind of national hero and secretary of defence, the first one and being sacked in such a way and then being killed off shortly afterwards, kind of showed just how powerful the Majestic 12 committee was because if they could arrange for a sitting secretary of defence to be sacked and then two months later killed off in mysterious circumstances, that was sending a signal. This is something that I think people who knew Forrestal well – and Kennedy was one of them – Kennedy knew what was going on because he continued to see Forrestal. They were personal friends and in the book I actually have a document there that shows Forrestal and Kennedy continued to communicate when Kennedy was a Congressman.

You referred earlier on to that photograph that showed President Kennedy at the grave of James Forrestal in May of 1963. What’s significant about that photo was that that was taken one week before Kennedy went to Holloman Air Force Base, White Sands missile range, and there’s another very important military-industrial facility there, and this was where Kennedy was going to be confronting the German scientists who were very much involved in the secrecy system that had been set up, that these German scientists that were involved in these very secretive projects at that very important facility there, Holloman Air Force Base and White Sands, that this was really Kennedy’s effort to try to get access to a lot of this information. And I think the fact that he visited Forrestal’s grave a week before, to me signified that he was more or less paying homage to the man who had tried to do something similar before but had failed but Kennedy I think really believed that as President he had the power to be able to do what Forrestal had failed to do. But as events turned out we see that that wasn’t the case.

Elan: I want us to get into Eisenhower a little bit because he plays very strongly into this whole story. Dwight D. Eisenhower, as we know, was a very important general during WWII. He knew a lot about what was going on as well. He went into a role as a president of a university for a while, you mention in your book Michael, and then in 1953 he runs for President and becomes President and he is trying to understand what the situation as regards to MJ-12 is. Although it’s outside of the scope of your book, you have a very interesting analysis of Eisenhower’s role in all of this in an essay you wrote called “Eisenhower’s 1954 Meeting with Extraterrestrials”.
I think it speaks greatly to some things that happened later on with Eisenhower and in particular, as you mention in your book, his discussions with Kennedy about the whole UFO secrecy and MJ12 situation. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that essay, Eisenhower’s 1954 Meeting with Extraterrestrials and just describe what that’s about and how it fits in with all of this?

Michael: Well that meeting that occurred on I think February 20th of 1954 where President Eisenhower secretly travelled to Edwards Air Force Base where he had an encounter with a delegation of extraterrestrials, that this was something that has long been rumoured. There’s a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting Eisenhower actually doing something very secretive at Edwards Air Force Base.

For example he was down at Palm Springs at that time. He did go missing for a night. A cover story that he went to see a dentist was shown to be false. There are military records showing that Edwards Air Force Base for a period of three days was closed down at that time when Eisenhower was in the area. And then there were a number of whistleblowers that have come forward who described what they saw and essentially what they saw was Eisenhower having an encounter with delegates from some extraterrestrials civilization, that that’s what these whistleblower sources had reported.

So to me this was the first in what was a series of meetings that Eisenhower had. I know that there was another one that he had a year later at Holloman Air Force Base. Again, there’s a number of whistleblowers, there’s circumstantial evidence supporting that, that Eisenhower did actually travel out to Holloman Air Force Base secretly in February of 1955 and had a similar type encounter with some extraterrestrials visitors. So there are two incidents early in his administration where he was having some kind of diplomatic interaction with these visitors.

Elan: It’s kind of a mind-blowing thing to accept, that Eisenhower or any sitting President actually had meetings with extraterrestrials in which certain agreement may have been discussed or treaties have been agreed to.

I think what makes your essay and analysis of the whole meeting so compelling, is not only the number of whistleblowers like Bill Cooper and John Lear and others who were well known to be connected to intelligence in military circles, but you also include descriptions of the meeting by Gerald Light and others that get to the heart of the psychological reality of Eisenhower and other representatives of religious and economic groups, a small contingent, meeting with these otherworldly beings, and what their feelings about it were. So it makes a compelling case for it even if it sounds fantastic and unbelievable on the surface of it, I think you make a very good case for the idea that these meetings had actually occurred. Can we say a little bit about what the outcome of them was in terms of agreements that may or may not have occurred between elements of Eisenhower’s group and the ETs that he met with?

Michael: Well we’ve had quite a number of people who have come forward, whistleblowers that have discussed working in projects where they have seen extraterrestrials working alongside American scientists and engineers in reverse engineering certain technologies. Charles Hall is one that I think is particularly important. He was at Nellis Air Force Base in 1964. He described what had emerged from these agreements that had been reached by Eisenhower in terms of the full-blown cooperation between one group of extraterrestrials that he called the tall whites and the US air force where the tall whites were helping them develop advanced technologies, flying saucer craft and so forth.

Another whistleblower, Bill Newhouse was also an engineer and he described the process whereby he and other engineers who would be working on a reverse engineering program, if they got stuck then they would bring in an extraterrestrials consultant and that ET would help these engineers understand these kinds of technologies. So there’s lots of stories like that, these whistleblowers having some kind of knowledge of agreements that had been reached whereby extraterrestrials would be in some way given access to US facilities and resources and the US would receive help in the terms of technical assistance on developing and reverse engineering some of these advanced technologies.

Elan: But you also write that along with this assistance that was given by at least some of these groups of extraterrestrials, that there was also a kind of agreement to permit the Grays or other groups to do research on human beings and this opened the door it seems, to a whole other avenue of exploitation that perhaps Eisenhower feared and felt powerless to do anything about. So would you say that’s a correct assessment?

Michael: Yes. I think that is something that we can say that this is what various whistleblowers have reported. There’s one in particular, Dan Sherman who worked for the US Air Force and was stationed at the NSA for a period of time. He said that his job for the NSA, that a covert assignment he had been given was to monitor the number of people that were being abducted by these extraterrestrials and pass that information on to the proper US authorities and right there you have evidence that there had been an agreement reached where a certain number of abductions would be allowed or where the US authorities would expect to receive information from the extraterrestrials about how many people were being abducted and what was being done to them and so forth.

This is something that Bill Cooper and others have talked about at length in terms of this being one of the more egregious aspects of this kind of secret agreement.

Elan: Egregious indeed! It’s interesting that Eisenhower seemed to be, if not in the loop in 1954 and 1955 with these meetings, at least kind of aware of to some degree, what was going on. And then as you described earlier he felt so out of the loop at another point in time, I think it was 1958, that he actually threatened MJ-12 – and I believe they were at S-4 base near Area 51 – with the use of the military, that he would actually command a group in the army to come in there and forcefully take over just so Eisenhower could get a grasp on the situation because presumably he was left more and more out of the loop and wasn’t provided with any kind of updates or developments, status reports for those few years.

So he had the power to do this and what he ends up doing, I think you describe in either your essay or your book, is he sends a couple of CIA people who are newly recruited to go to Area 51 and come back with a status report in lieu of attacking Area 51. Does that sound about right?

Michael: Right, yes. And we need to always keep in mind that Area 51 actually has two secret facilities. The facility that has the alien-related projects and extraterrestrial visitors is at the S-4 facility and that’s where Eisenhower demanded that he get a full briefing on what was occurring there because he knew that that was really where the action was. What was happening at the Groom Lake facility, which most people associate with Area 51, these are cover programs. You’re talking about the U2 spy plane or the SR 71.

These are cover programs, that the real secret programs were happening at the S-4 facility so Eisenhower had threatened the US army intervention into Area 51 because he wasn’t getting the information and he knew, as anyone who operates at that level knew, is that if you’re not getting the information then you’re not part of the policymaking process because only people who have access to that information are going to be able to have input into what are the appropriate policies which is why security access is so important. People offer this as an academic argument in terms of who has security access and who doesn’t. Well it actually has a very profound policy implication because people who have the clearance are going to be part of any policy making that occurs because they have the need-to-know clearance to be able to give informed opinions about what should be the policy.

But people who don’t have that need-to-know access, regardless of their rank – that could be a four star general, that could be the President, that could be anyone – if they don’t have need-to-know then they’re not going to be part of the policymaking process and Eisenhower knew this. So he was furious that he was being cut out of the loop and therefore not being allowed to be part of the policymaking process because that was a major turnaround from the way in which Majestic 12 had initially been set up, to advise the President on appropriate policies. Now the President was cut out of the loop and MJ-12 was making the policies.
So Eisenhower found that unacceptable and he had to make his threats to get access.

Harrison: My quick question, what was the source for that story about Eisenhower threatening
Area 51? Can you recall?

Michael: Yes. That was a whistleblower that Linda Moulton Howe had first come into contact with about 12 years ago and she did a number of interviews with him and then he essentially was threatened and so he went off the radar for about a dozen years. Then he did an interview with Richard Dolan that was shown at the Citizens Hearing Conference in I think 2013. It’s been a few years now. So that kind of put him back on the map in terms of what he had said.
And there has been another whistleblower, a colonel for the US army. He was in the JAG officer corps and he worked for the White House.

Harrison: Hold on one second Michael. The connection is breaking up a little bit. Can you say something? We’ll see if the connection’s good.

Michael: Okay. Well I was talking about Eisenhower. So Stephen Lufkin was at the time, in the late 1950s actually working with the White House signal corps and so he remembers having conversations with Eisenhower and he remembers Eisenhower talking about the UFO topic and saying that Eisenhower was very unhappy with the way in which the issue was being handled. He said that the best people were excluded from having access to this kind of information and that he was unhappy about that.

I just want to bring that back to the earlier comments I made about Forrestal, that Forrestal had that same mindset, that the best people needed to be given access to this technology so that you would have the best policies formulated.

So Eisenhower a decade later has a conflict with Majestic 12, the same group that was responsible for Forrestal’s death, has a similar conflict with President Eisenhower. In this case the MJ-12 backed down. They gave Eisenhower the access but Eisenhower knew what was going on. So those are the two principle whistleblowers that talked about Eisenhower at the time because they personally say that they spoke to him and knew what he was thinking.
And then of course we have the famous farewell address from January 17, 1961 where Eisenhower clearly was very unhappy with the way in which the military industrial complex was running things and he clearly felt that it had become a rogue entity outside of the control of the President. And so we know there that Eisenhower was definitely unhappy about something. But I think what he told Kennedy privately is more important in terms of understanding why three years later Kennedy was assassinated.

Harrison: As a way to moving forward to the Kennedy administration, I wanted to bring up one more point that I found very interesting in the book. This was from the official sources and that is in regards to Area 51 because for decades it wasn’t even officially acknowledged that Area 51 existed and once it was acknowledged you have a little excerpt from a declassified document that was released about the kind of history about Area 51. Was it 1950 that it opened? Or ’55?

Michael: ’55.

Harrison: 1955. And how once it was opened the organization in charge of security was the CIA and the reason I found this interesting is because, as you point out in the book, prior to 1955 when you look at all these witnesses who have come forward in later years and documents and everything related to this early period of UFO history, Roswell and post-Roswell, it all involves army bases and air force bases.

So this was, I believe, the first facility that wasn’t under the direct command of the military. It was shunted off to the CIA and this relates back to MJ-12 because according to the leaked documents, the first head dog of MJ-12 was Roscoe Hillenkoetter who was the director of Central Intelligence in those early years. So right at the very beginning you have this tie-in with the newly created CIA. Then in the 50s Allen Dulles becomes the head of the CIA and presumably – again, according to one of these documents – becomes head of MJ-12.

It kind of relates to what we were discussing earlier about the transition from a committee that was ostensibly under Presidential control and then moving further and further away from the official government hierarchy. So in that case we had it moving away from direct Presidential control to more of this independent deep state organization. And in this case it’s the same development whereas, previously, all of these bases and all of the locations where this kind of work was presumably being done, there was at least a measure of official hierarchy or control via the military.

So now we have this Area 51 and S-4 bases that are pretty much controlled directly by the CIA and we’ve got Allen Dulles in the picture now. Then Kennedy is elected in 1960 and becomes President in 1961. Maybe using that as a jumping off point, can you take us into the Kennedy administration and how that developed?

Michael: Well Kennedy pretty early on tries to work out exactly what is happening with this whole secrecy system that’s been set up around these programs and at a certain time he realized that it was all being run by the CIA, that they were the gatekeeper for all of this so he contacted the CIA director Allen Dulles and sent him a top secret memorandum. So that’s one of the leaked Majestic documents. I believe it was dated sometime in early June of 1961 and basically asked Dulles for information pertaining to MJ-12 psychological operations.
That might sound puzzling now but psychological operations was the cover term for anything related to the UFO phenomenon and we know that because later Kennedy received a response from Dulles in October of 1961. This is just a month before Dulles gives up his position as director of the CIA and he tells Kennedy that the MJ-12 psychological operations involve UFO files and that this is something that has been handled and that Kennedy doesn’t have a need to know.

So here you have an extraordinary document and of course the MJ-12 documents are contested but still you have this document which quite extraordinarily is where you actually have a CIA director telling a President that he doesn’t have need-to-know access to a particular program being run within the government and to just get lost. So you have another important MJ-12 document which is the burnt memo. I’ll go into the detail of how that came about later, but essentially what happened was that during this entire period while Kennedy was making inquiries about UFOs, what’s going on, Dulles as both director of the CIA and as MJ-1, circulates a set of draft directives and there are eight directives that are basically sent out to a select group of the MJ-12 committee and these directive saying that Kennedy is making inquiries into the whole phenomenon. He is threatening our operations and we need a setup to deal with the present situation.

So the directives include one which is called Project Environment which is a cryptic assassination directive. It quite clearly alludes to when the environment in Washington is non-conducive to growth then the conditions are – I can’t remember the exact phrasing of that, but it’s a cryptic reference to anyone threatening Majestic 12 operations can be assassinated and that pertains to any public official, no matter how high. There’s no restriction there.
So these eight directives are proved and later on their leaked and they are directly implicated in the assassination of Kennedy and I can talk about that maybe a little bit later. But certainly this is something that Allen Dulles set in place in 1961 in that period when he was still CIA director but he was on his way out. And Kennedy was pressuring him to allow Kennedy access to all of these classified UFO files but Dulles wasn’t allowing that.

Harrison: One more interesting tie-in to the official record is that in February of 1961, right after he’s inaugurated, Kennedy sent out a national security memorandum or something trying to regain full administration control of psychological operations because prior to this point – again, we’ve seen this drift away from executive control for psychological operations – Kennedy officially, right at the beginning of his administration was trying to regain full control of the entire psychological operation policy. And then that directly ties into the leaked documents that you’re talking about, where the main subject of them all is psychological operations and how those relate to MJ-12.

I just thought that was an interesting development. Right from the beginning of the administration you have this memorandum and then that goes into operation and then a month or two later there’s this leaked memo from Kennedy to Dulles asking for all the information on MJ-12 psychological operations and then by October Dulles sends out this other document as a response to Kennedy to this sub-committee of MJ-12 and then Dulles is officially fired and leaves. But as we know from the history of Dulles, even though he was fired and left the CIA he was still very much involved in the CIA and was pretty much running it from his office in his home. He didn’t really leave the organization.

Michael: Right. Even though Dulles was replaced by John McCone that didn’t mean that McCone became MJ-1. Dulles still would have kept that position. As to when he gave up that position we don’t know but certainly I think given the threat Kennedy presented to the Majestic 12 committee operations, that Dulles would have stayed around for some time.

The key person in the CIA was kind of like the person that would monitor everything that was going on, the people who would implement these kind of directives was James Jesus Angleton who was the CIA’s counterintelligence chief because within the CIA the two primary organizations that were always involved in this kind of extraterrestrial phenomenon, and in the psychological operations that were created as the cover for this, within the bureaucracy, psychological operations was always the cover for these deeper, more highly classified extraterrestrial-related projects, that you had the CIA clandestine services division, Richard Bissell was the guy that was in charge of that. He was the guy that flew out to Area 51 with the head of Lockheed Skunk Works to set up Area 51. And you had James Jesus Angleton who was the head of counterintelligence for the CIA.

So these were the guys that were basically in charge of all of these clandestine programs, psychological operations. As you mentioned, Kennedy did try from the very beginning to get control over these psychological operations because he knew that was the cover program for these deeper ET-related programs and so if he was going to get any access to these deeper projects then he needed to get in control of the psychological operations cover programs. And he really had limited success.

Elan: Like earlier in the show Harrison mentioned that Kennedy’s connection to Forrestal jumped out from the pages of the book. Allen Dulles’ connection to MJ-12 and being the number one jumped out to me as well. In recent years with books like The Devil’s Chessboard by David Talbot and other books and investigations, we’ve learned that Dulles in his position as head of CIA had also implemented MK Ultra, mind control programs.

Harrison: Paper Clip.

Elan: Paper Clip. He was devising all kinds of coups in Guatemala, Iran, was one of the engineers of the Bay of Pigs invasion. There were all sorts of deep state, imperial projects that were, if not his brainchild, then things that he had a heavy hand in helping to bring about, not to mention his stories of manipulation and being conniving and supporting Nazis in Europe long after WWII to implement his counterintelligence programs.

So in Dulles we had a very special, virulent monstrous psychopath in the guise of this gentleman spy as one author kindly described him. And it seems like he was Kennedy’s arch-nemesis. He was standing for and believed in everything that Kennedy didn’t. It seems that he was this incredible force for destruction and exploitation and that he would also be head of MJ-12, I guess it shouldn’t come as a surprise considering the amount of power he wielded. But it’s like he had his hands in everything.

Michael: He did indeed. One of the things about Dulles is that his connection to the Nazi regime was a very old one. He in fact in 1933 was actually involved in Hitler being appointed Chancellor by President Hindenburg, that both Dulles brothers were actually working for a high-powered company, an attorney firm called Sullivan and Cromwell and that they represented a number of German industrialist corporations and these industrialists wanted Hitler to be appointed Chancellor because they recognized that he would be good for business.

So Dulles was involved in that from the very beginning. He was involved in many US corporations going over to Nazi Germany, helping the rearmament program. Of course you have the Second World War. Dulles is now head of the Office of Strategic Services out of Bern, Switzerland and now Dulles is making all of these deals with these Nazis as the war is coming to an end and they realize they’re going to lose so Dulles is the one that facilitates all these deals. Agreements are made. The Germans establish several outposts in the southern hemisphere.

Dulles was involved in all of that. And during the 1950s during the Eisenhower administration, with Operation Paperclip, it is worth talking about a Fourth Reich because this was something that Martin Bormann had set up during the Second World War towards the very end, that a lot of the Nazi loot would be taken out of Germany before the collapse and that would help set up Germany as an economic empire, as a Fourth Reich but through economic means. And that was the new plan and Dulles was involved in that from the very beginning.

We can see through the ‘50s and ‘60s just the inordinate power that Operation Paperclip scientists had. It was amazing! You had Wernher von Braun, a former SS officer being the head of the Redstone missile range and then being the head of the Marshall Space Centre. Kurt
Debus, a former Nazi SS official being head of the Kennedy Space Centre, a whole succession of former Nazi officials that were Operation Paperclip scientists went on to become senior officials within the military industrial complex. We’re talking thousands of these people and essentially what you have is the Fourth Reich having infiltrated the United States in a very pervasive and covert manner and that Dulles and the CIA were very much involved in all of that.

This was one of the things about Kennedy. Kennedy’s father Joe Kennedy was a supporter of Hitler. He actually had supported the Nazi regime even after the Second World War began and he was sent as ambassador to Britain. Joseph Kennedy actually made a donation to the Nazi party, so he was a big believer in Nazism and personally I think that what happened was that the Fourth Reich actually supported John F. Kennedy being elected President. They didn’t trust Nixon. They didn’t trust Eisenhower. So they supported Kennedy because they thought Kennedy could be controlled because Joe Kennedy has so much influence over his sons.

What happened was that shortly after Kennedy gets elected Joe Kennedy suffers a stroke and so he has no real influence over his sons and so both the mafia and the Fourth Reich feel that the Kennedys have gone rogue and so this is where I think Dulles started to become an enemy of the Kennedy administration.

Elan: You spoke in your book a little bit about two meetings that Kennedy has with Eisenhower shortly before he’s inaugurated in 1961. By then I guess Eisenhower became resigned to having limited knowledge of what was going on in S-4 and Kennedy is gearing himself up for what he needs and wants to do as President, what he knows. So you speculate in your book that Eisenhower shared some of his views on what was going on with Kennedy. Can you say why you think they had that conversation and what you believe might have been communicated to Kennedy?

Michael: Sure. We know that Kennedy actually did meet Eisenhower twice before becoming President, while he was President elect and that there was some private time for both of them. I speculate in the book, given what Eisenhower had said in his farewell address, that he almost certainly would have given Kennedy more details into what exactly it was about the military industrial complex that was a threat to American liberties because certainly even in the farewell address he describes this threat in very general terms.

So I think it’s very reasonable to assume that Eisenhower would have been more specific in these private meetings with Kennedy about the nature of this threat that the military industrial complex played. And this is where we come into this whole question about MJ-12, the CIA being in charge of running the psychological warfare operations that were a cover for these ET-related projects and the whole Nazi connection as well, that that’s also a factor here.

So I think this is what Kennedy was told or given a briefing about by Eisenhower and maybe given some idea in terms of how to approach this problem because I think Eisenhower was a real American patriot and I think he would have gone beyond the idea that “I’m a Republican and Kennedy is a Democrat so I’m not going to tell him everything I know”. I think he would have really seen this threat as something that pertained to the entire political class, irrespective of their partisan leanings. So I think he would have told Kennedy everything he knew and given Kennedy some advice on how to deal with this phenomenon.

Harrison: Well maybe we can move on to an interesting chapter in the book regarding Marilyn Monroe. Maybe I’ll just leave it at that. Can you tell us the story of how Marilyn Monroe fits into all this?

Michael: Right. Well Marilyn Monroe was the lover of John F. Kennedy and basically what happened was that at a certain point J. Edgar Hoover made it clear that Marilyn Monroe was a security threat because she had friends that were associated with Cuba and the communist movement and that Kennedy in pillow talk with Monroe might have been revealing some classified information that was a national security threat.

So Kennedy was warned off Monroe and Robert Kennedy, his brother, was the one that had to pass on the bad news to Marilyn Monroe but he then gets involved with Marilyn Monroe so the same thing happens. Then at a certain point J. Edgar Hoover contacts Robert Kennedy and tells him “You’ve got to stop your liaisons with Marilyn Monroe. She’s a security threat because of her communist leanings.”

This is what set off the final confrontation with Marilyn Monroe because she knew about some of Kennedy’s visits to these facilities where they actually held extraterrestrial craft and even one of the bodies of one of the extraterrestrials. So he said this to Monroe and Monroe had talked about it to Dorothy Kilgallen who was a very well known correspondent at the time. What Monroe didn’t know was that the CIA was actually doing wiretaps of her and so everything Monroe was saying on the phone was being tapped by the CIA and in particular there was one CIA document that is a transcript or a summary of a wiretapping that occurred several days before Monroe was killed that said that Monroe was threatening to hold a press conference where she would reveal all of the secrets, that she had a red diary where all of the information was contained and that this document actually had the signature of James Jesus Angleton on it. He’s the CIA counterintelligence chief so he’s part of the monitoring of Monroe who was about to spill the beans about what Kennedy had told her about the UFO phenomenon.

And then of course we have the actual death of Monroe, I think early August of 1962. Robert Kennedy visits her house twice on that same day where she’s killed and during the evening there are eyewitnesses. Monroe’s housekeeper and the groundsman both see Robert Kennedy having a confrontation with Monroe demanding the diary and Monroe refused and then that’s where you have these stories of Robert Kennedy being involved in some way with the assassination because one of the agents that was accompanying him during the second visit on the evening of August 5, that he administered some drug to her and that incapacitated her and then later on Monroe is dead. So Robert Kennedy is directly implicated.

In the book I speculate that Kennedy probably didn’t realize that the doctor who was accompanying him had administered a lethal dosage, that Kennedy wouldn’t have known that, that maybe he was being set up or maybe that after he and these two agents left another team came in and administered the lethal dosage. But nevertheless Robert Kennedy was implicated in the death of Marilyn Monroe so this could later be used against him as blackmail.

But the important thing I think to keep in mind is that the death of Marilyn Monroe actually had this connection with James Angleton whose name was mentioned on this wiretap, that he was monitoring what she was saying and that she was a security threat. So you actually have this CIA connection with her. And that’s important later on when we get to talk about the Majestic 12 directive that was implicated in President Kennedy’s assassination.

Elan: So Monroe basically felt jilted by JFK and threatened to go public in some way about the things that he shared with her about the reality of UFOs and extraterrestrial bodies and that would have destroyed his presidency and any chance he would have had of getting a hold on the whole subject and helping to steer the control of the extraterrestrial connection towards a more constructive end. We know that Kennedy was in great touch with the Soviet Union’s Premier Nikita Khrushchev. They had a correspondence going. They met in Geneva to have informal discussions. They both showed a willingness to work together and to dampen the Cold War animosity, fear and paranoia and aggression that was being propagated by both countries but mostly the US, mostly by Dulles and people in his circles.

So Kennedy tries to do a very interesting thing, you write, in sidestepping or circumventing the control that the CIA has on this whole subject. What he does, you write, is he proposes to create a joint space program with Russia. At first Khrushchev demurs and says he doesn’t think it’s a good idea but then he comes back and he says he is open to it. I wonder Michael if you can get into that a little bit; what Kennedy was doing in using his overtures towards Russia in getting it more information from his own CIA and other organizations.

Michael: Right. Yes, that was really the key policy that Kennedy had started pursuing in 1963 that I think is directly related to why he was actually assassinated, that Kennedy had been frustrated in trying to get the CIA to divulge the classified UFO material that he was wanting. So he decided he would do this end run where he would cooperate with the Soviet Union and as a result of the cooperative agreements with the Soviet Union being a joint space program, that anything pertinent to space and classified UFO reports would be part of that, would be equally shared by the Russians and the American space agencies.

So this was a means whereby one branch of the US bureaucracy – we’re talking about NASA and the State Department – could demand from the CIA access to these classified UFO files because now they need to share these with the Soviet Union and they would also get what the Soviet Union had. So there was a way now to cross-reference what was going on when it came to this UFO phenomenon from the Soviet perspective and the American perspective. This was how Kennedy I believe, really thought that he could have all of the relevant issues pertaining to UFOs, extraterrestrial life and so forth, that information be given access to the best and the brightest in the US national security system so that the best policies could be reached.

So that was the strategy and it was proposed in September at the United Nations. Khrushchev demurs up until November. On November 11, 1963 the Soviets have experienced the failure of one of their rocket tests so that was the catalyst for Khrushchev then saying “Well we need to cooperate with the Americans now”. That’s how he could justify to his military industrial complex or to the communist party, why cooperation with the Americans was essential, so now he accepted Kennedy’s offer. So on November 12 you actually have Kennedy sending off a National Security Action Memorandum 271 which is an official document that basically instructs the NASA administrator, James Webb, to share all relevant information with the Soviet Union’s space program because now the US and the USSR are going to be cooperating in a joint space program and they would have a joint mission to the moon. This was now part of the official record.

On the same day you actually have Kennedy sending off a top secret memorandum which has never been officially released. This is a leaked Majestic document which is directed to John McCone who is the new CIA director, ordering McCone to share all classified UFO files with NASA and the state department because now NASA is obliged to share all such files with the Soviet Union as spelled out in National Security Action Memorandum 271.

So now McCone is given these orders and McCone, even though he’s CIA director, it’s like he doesn’t have access to the CIA files, to the classified UFO files. It’s still Dulles who has access to these or Angleton who has access. So in the document itself, in this top secret memorandum there’s some handwriting there whereby William Colby, who’s in charge of operations in Vietnam at the time – and the CIA were doing a lot of things in Vietnam that were also relevant to this issue – Colby in his handwriting says that Angleton has MJ directives. And that’s very important because that was signed on November 19 I believe, so this is only three days before Kennedy’s assassination where Colby is saying in response to Kennedy’s order for McCone to share these classified UFO files, Colby is basically saying to McCone “Don’t worry about it. Angleton has the MJ-12 directives. He knows how to respond to this.”

And of course two or three days later Kennedy is dead in Dallas.

Harrison: Do we want to move on to the burned memo and the things you were planning on saying about that?

Michael: Sure because this is the smoking gun document, this leaked Majestic document with Angleton being referred to as having these MJ12 directives. Actually this pertains to the burned memo which was something that had earlier been drafted by Dulles as I talked about a little bit earlier. The Majestic directive that is directly relevant to this is the Project Environment and that’s the one that spells out that when the environment in Washington is not conducive to growth, it should be wet, something along those lines. The term “it should be wet” is an assassination directive, a cryptic reference to assassination because wet works is how the intelligence community refers to assassination, plans that the Russian intelligence service during the Czarist times was the first to start using this kind of euphemism of “it should be wet” or “wet works” in describing assassinations of people.

So here you have this MJ12 directive cryptically authorizing assassination against any senior political official and that this is what is actually referred to in this top secret memorandum that was addressed to John McCone by President Kennedy to share all classified UFO files with NASA, that rather than following through on Kennedy’s order to share the classified files, that McCone was being told by William Colby who in his own handwriting was basically saying “It’s okay. Don’t worry about it. This is going to be looked after by Angleton who has the MJ-12 directive.”

Harrison: Very interesting.

Elan: Well I find it fascinating that here we are 60 years later or so and the same deep state or secret government that was trying to prevent Kennedy from not only finding out or sharing information about the existence of UFOs and aliens and what they were doing here, but was trying to create a constructive relationship that wasn’t based on war, that wasn’t based on aggression and intervention around the world, that Kennedy was trying to establish some kind of normal, healthy relationship with Russia and here we are again, 70 years later and reading about the outrageous accusations and demonization of Russia even now and it kind of suggests in some way that many of at least the same types of thinking that were involved in the Kennedy assassination is alive and well all these decades later. I don’t know if you want to comment on that or not.

Michael: That is a very important point and I think it really was an effort by people both within the Soviet Union and the United States at that time, that Kennedy was wanting to promote positive relations because this was the way in which control over these secretive projects could be shared more widely amongst the bureaucracy and certainly I think developing positive relations with the Soviet Union and ending the Cold War. Because this is clearly what would have happened, quite correct, that this would have ended the Cold War.

Joint missions to the moon and space cooperation would have brought that to an end but of course the deep state relies on international conflict in order to be able to raise huge amounts of black budget funds to fund these classified programs that pertain to extraterrestrial life and technologies and not share that with the rest of the US bureaucracy and keep it in the hands of a core group of industrialists and national elites that are all part of this deep state. And the same thing is happening now, that we actually have a President who wanted to set up a positive relationship with Russia and that those attempts have been stymied. Russia is now being publicly vilified and a new Cold War is being justified by deep space assets.

And of course we have lots of rumours now about Trump being assassinated so definitely there’s a connection here with what happened to Kennedy and what Trump is trying to do with positive relationships with Russia because I think he has been advised that through a positive relationship with Russia a lot of these secrets can be revealed but without that it’s going to be war and destruction.

Elan: Yeah, I agree.

Harrison: Well on a humorous note, I just had a flash image in my mind of Trump tweeting about aliens and UFOs. That would be the day!

Michael: That would be disclosure, wouldn’t it? {laughter}

Elan: Of some kind or another for sure.

Harrison: But then he might deny it later. You never know.

Michael: Well I think that’s why he is such a threat, that he could just do it through a tweet. Just like that. Just “Yes, this is real. This is happening. ETs are here and they’re covering it up.” And ballgame is over. I don’t think they could put the genie back in the bottle.

Harrison: Well they might put Trump in a mental institute but who knows?

Elan: On that note Michael, a real pleasure talking to you today. We really appreciate you coming on. Again, Michael Salla’s book is Kennedy’s Last Stand – Eisenhower, UFOs, MJ-12 and JFK’s Assassination. It really makes a pretty good argument. I wouldn’t say that the UFO disclosure and the détente to Russia were the only reasons. Certainly he had other things on his agenda. Kennedy wanted to do a lot to reform the US – economically, socially, culturally but certainly this is a significant piece of the puzzle. I don’t think we can question that fact. The other article if you want to check it out, it’s quite good, if I can get it here. It’s Eisenhower’s 1954 Meeting With Extraterrestrials which can be found on Michael thank you so much.

Michael: I just wanted to make a minor correction there. My website actually is

Elan: Dot-org. Sorry about that.

Michael: No, no problem. So I want to thank you Elan and Harrison for the great questions. I really enjoyed it and this is the 100th anniversary of Kennedy’s birth so it seemed appropriate that we discuss this this year so thank you.

Harrison: Great. Thank you Michael.

Elan: Thank you.

Harrison: Alright, so we’ll end it there.

Elan: Thanks for listening everyone.

Michael: Thanks a lot.

Elan: And tune in next week as we bring you another show next Sunday, the Health and Wellness Show next Friday and take care everyone.
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