The whole control of the world by system.

[biala84]

I know here on this forum this topic is known to people for a long time. In case is some new forum member arrive still on time  then it’s good to share in this moment Our experience. Like sattelites when the signal come we are ready to recive, read the information and then share it with another members.

Someone who comes from system that means for me that the way of thinking is programmed. One of way to fight against the system is to react truthly and said what is really on matter when having for example conversation with a person. Around me almost everybody I know they are well programmed to don’t see the light. I could never imagine when I was younger that it will come a day like this and I will be fighting against the system and even Your nearest Family will be attacking You, because You didn’t choose the same way as they did..

As long as you don’t work on Yourself and Your prefer that other’s will do things for You then means You are the best candidate to be a member of system. Remember they always try to catch Your weak point. Maybe someone will think what is the system? Or who?

We haven’t seen them in real, only shadows … The short way to imagine is the war beetwen white and black. The war is from the beginning between the light and dark. They are dark, black. You can see them bad power on Hillary Clinton’s , Obama andy many others bad psychopaths who are controlling the world. If someone still don’t know who represent white, the light is surely Putin, , the Cassiopaean’s, and many other’s 

Every day can be a small thing which You want to learn, reading, even from the simple situation of life, can learn. Is to see with Your eyes open, to hear and to feel  The more affect You can feel when you using Iodine  That is for another topic :D

The normal reaction for a human being should be help another human being.Different thousand situation can be example I give you only one.. Think… 
Your mother is older. You see she start to feel sick ? What you will do?
I know from this forum I will change the diet for her, try to talk with her, maybe give her some more attention? Can be a few reason.
In this case I know the story is different, because the daughter of that lady choose doctor’s, medicin’s after a few Years of using medicnes which should help her, they are killing her. These womans shouldn't give a life of her mother in some other's hand. That;s why i said no one can do the things for You. This example I want You to see is that we live in a fully world of people who belive and can kill You, because they are blind in the same way they are saying that they love you. Well that was very difficult lesson. The moral is the system want you to sleep or take your soul.. Every day when we wake up and we are awake then the shuttle is more closer to win by white ones 

The reason i write this also is because of a slow material decomposition.
Greetings

 

[Renaissance]

Have you read the Wave series? I ask because there are important concepts like free will, strategic enclosure, and 'giving when asking' that are address some of the issues and difficulties you bring up. It's essential reading and an important foundation for understanding the Work being done on the forum.

 

[biala84]

It's not all about me :) I write it for people who didn't read it :) these who i'm know is only because of Laura work :) Should i explain something more :) :)

 

[Renaissance]

It's not all about me :) I write it for people who didn't read it :) these who i'm know is only because of Laura work :) Should i explain something more :) :)

I mentioned the Wave series because some of your comments could be interpreted in ways that might actually not be helpful for others. For example, when you do choose to have conversations with other people about issues explored here, it's not a good idea to do it as a means of fighting the system. It's important to know if an individual is asking, and even then it is a slippery slope. External consideration can go a long way in making other people lives easier as well as conserving energy to apply in it the most useful ways we can.

 

[biala84]

it's just my point of view, if i'm wrong or i give a wrong example then my post can be easily deleted :)

 

[Alada]

it's just my point of view, if i'm wrong or i give a wrong example then my post can be easily deleted :)

There’s no need to delete it, I think by jumping to that line of thought you miss what others are trying to highlight for you. For example with this:

Someone who comes from system that means for me that the way of thinking is programmed. One of way to fight against the system is to react truthly and said what is really on matter when having for example conversation with a person. Around me almost everybody I know they are well programmed to don’t see the light. I could never imagine when I was younger that it will come a day like this and I will be fighting against the system and even Your nearest Family will be attacking You, because You didn’t choose the same way as they did..

What if part of learning how to 'fight' for truth (by living a more objective life), is to honor the free will of each thing and each person by NOT trying to force our point of view upon them where it hasn’t been asked for? That in fact, until we do learn how to not interfere with the free will of others to do and think as they wish, we still contribute energy to the control system.

Worth considering also, that by forcing our perspective upon others the result may be that we further entrench their views, perhaps even denying them the chance of ever coming to a more objective view later, by their own initiative, if and when they choose to.

There is 'good' and there is 'bad', and the specific circumstances of any given event that determine which is which. So along with 'black' and 'white', we always have to consider many shades of 'grey'.

 

[T.C.]

Hi biala84

You've been a member of this forum for over two years but have made relatively few posts. That fact, together with a statement like this...

Your mother is older. You see she start to feel sick ? What you will do?
I know from this forum I will change the diet for her...

...suggests that you haven't spent much time studying the aims and ideas that make up the work we do here.

However, your post reads to me like you are thinking, and that in writing out what's on your mind, you're attempting to formulate your thoughts into an accurate framework of how the world works.

We're all trying to do that all the time, and it's a never-ending process. So taking this kind of stance...

it's just my point of view, if i'm wrong or i give a wrong example then my post can be easily deleted :)

...isn't what being here is about. Here, we're free to write our thoughts in the spirit of trying to figure out if our interpretations take into account all the available data and explain the data in a way that makes sense.

So when people give you feedback, they're trying to help you, because they assume that you want to learn and grow rather than preach and stay at the level of understanding that you're at.

 

[sedenion]

We don't critic anybody, it's better to say the things in a nice way, just give some suggestion that's what do human being which is not programmed normally do. We are not saying you can't give Your opinion, but just learn to do it in a nice way, don't attack, because that's what i was writing about if You come and attack so it means You come from system. Have a nice evening..

in fact, "where i come from" does not matter, not more than "who am i". I know (aproximately) what i does, and i know why people reacts. Nobody is forced to react, and certainely not in ONE particular way (there is many way to react to what appear strange, disturbing, rude, etc.)... I think i give my opinion in a relative nice way, i could be much more "tranchant"...

 

[sedenion]

Thanks for explaining sedenion. You say that by language, we are 'cutting up' the world in parts - I think this is true in a sense, but maybe the reason is that this is just how it works on our level?

We can see things that way: The langage is a way to transmit informations through the wire of the time. The time (here) is linear and is like a wire... so, like computers must serialize data to transmit it through wires, we need language (speaking) to transmit information through the time.

You said yourself above that 'we are not the universe', and therefore can't have pure/absolute objective understanding. I agree. Maybe we can't have a more direct/'whole' form of communication at this level either?

Except telepathy (what we do not mastering so well, for now) We already use many other way to communicate than the pure language. The first simple example are schematics, to build some Ikea furniture for example: there is (nearly) only drawings, however, this is information. But you also can think about arts...

BUT, I think by comparing our observations, using different words, different concepts etc. to describe the same 'picture', we can actually come closer to what you call 'analog thinking', we can learn to see different aspects of the 'big picture', of the concepts that we cannot see directly.

Yes, it is what i do... so i look to different cultures, different political borders, etc... i like this diversity, i like when people have their own philosophy, there is always something intersting in "how" people builds their own understanding of things. This is why when i come here, and see people refering mostly always to the same sources (Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, etc.), i am little bit disapointed.

So, maybe by sharing, one day we can learn to see 'all the layers at once', like in your photoshop example?

I think it is impossible, and i don't even think it is desirable. The "reach to the objectivity", as kind of doctrinal goal, is - from my point of view - a mistake and an impasse, as long as you are some "relative" and "local" being. But you can learn, discover, and obviously that prevent (relative to our present specific situation) to fall in some trap like propaganda...

As it happens, je parle français :) I've never heard of Petit, but do you have a link to a site where I can read something from or about him? I just had a look and he was mentioned here on the forum. Also, there is an older SOTT interview with Petit, which you can find here.

It is hard... JPP wrote many things. You can read its "blog" http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/nouveau.htm but there is absolutely everything, from 9/11 to UFO passing by its critics about scientists etc... Or, more about "how science works now", you can try its books "Les enfants du diable" and "Ovnis et armes secrètes américaines: l'extraordinaire témoignage d'un scientifique"... JPP had contacts with U.S and Russian scientists (has its researsh was partialy linked to military projects), so he had some pretty interesting things to tell. If you well understand french, there is also this video which mean interesting... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md2iYgb11zA

Well, I think there are different layers here. First, I can understand your frustration with the American/neo-liberal idea that 'everyone can become rich if he tries' nonsense, and with this capitalist 'ellbow mentality'.

And you are completely right: this 'you must always win!' attitude it is a program by society! (By the way, in France there are programs by society as well, but that's another story :D) [/quote]

In fact, this is not a "frustration"... because, as i said, this idea does not exists in France, it simply does not exist... in France, nobody will tell you something like "everybody can be rich if it work hard", and even to express this kind of idea, he would certainly don't use the word "rich"... it would be considered as pure insanity... we have different way to abord life, and money... It's all about the "protestant" vs "catholic" way of thinking: In france, if you are rich, you are suspect not a "winner" and if you want to "be rich" as a goal in your life, you are stupid... we pretty like to make fun about this strange american philosophy in france, (if you well speak french, you maybe will laugh) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1vDQEIHT0E

BUT - how can you actually change that?

For USA i can do nothing, americans have to deal with their own culture :D

I think we can stand up against this egoistic worldview by coming together, freely discussing different ideas that are more 'social', and most importantly by helping each other instead of competing with each other! Wouldn't that be 'evolution'?

This is partially why i came here like a tourist... I am here as a stranger, this a part of the 'experience'... About the "more social" ideas, this is a very more political subject, so more "locality" dependant... In politics, i do not deal with utopia, i am very pragmatic. So i will not tell you about some fantastic social system, i think in a pure pragmatical french context, according social and political structure of France. HOWEVER... it's true that if you seek for some semi-utopical social considerations, systems and ideas, french literature is probably the world number one for that.

you are already engaged in a sort of 'personal evolution'. It doesn't need to mean being ruthless, it can also mean studying different topics, sharing and helping

I think you understood the point here... i think we do not have to care so much about "personal evolution"...just being curious, live, have experiences, trying this or that, and, you naturally evolves...

 

[sedenion]

Sedenion, I'm still not sure what you are here to teach us about. In an effort to get the ball rolling and learn from you, I have a few questions for you.

I am not here to specificaly teach something... i am here and i communicate... you learn if you find something to learn...

1. Do you think society should be governed by laws or a moral code, written down or generally understood, a social contract, that reduces the rights of some individuals while protecting the majority? To what degree should it be enforced to protect the individuals from the predatory businessmen, leaders, or social agitators?

Do you even realize how your question is complex and have MANY questions hidden behind others ? We first here have one big problem: The delta between the reality of humain social-network, human "nature", and in the other hand, the utopia for a perfect society... My personnal opinion on this kind of question is hard to give, because, i KNOW utopia is precisely only utopia at the current stage where we are. However, your question(s) is interesting, since it seem you consider the "solution" must be some laws and rules to protect "poor people" from "predatory businessmen" by restricting the rights of "predatory businessmen"... Lets try that: What if you simply creates a society where "predatory business man" just can't exist, because the socity is based on some rules and values that simply prevent this kind of thing to happen ? Currently, the society is MADE by these predators, they created the rules, so they are sure to win...

2. What role does controversy have in society? In what cases, if any, is it appropriate/not appropriate?

Again, this is a very dificult question, and it even depend on what you name "controversy". Personnaly, i think controversy, as a way for debate, is a key feature to make things go further... however, controversy can also be a pure waste of time, if you make some controversy about the colours of your shoes while your home is burning (we have some abilities for that in France, especially in mainstream medias), this is not the best idea you could have.

3. What do you perceive YOUR role to be in society, or even an idealized society?

I don't know... i have even a conflict with my own existence in the univers, i see myself as kind of "informatic bug", so, my role in the society... pfiou.

4. Do you believe in some kind of supreme force or consciousness that creates the universe?

(this remind me a scene from Ghostbusters....) that's not the way i would say. I do not see that as a "supreme force"... consciousness yes. "believe" is not really the right word.

5. How do you think the manifest universe is created?

I have several theories... some are contradictory to others. And again your question is contextual... "manifest universe", you mean, physical one, the one we see, ear, etc ? then you talk about creation, while "creating" is probably the less understandable key concept of the... creation...

6. You speak of being in the wrong dimension or planet etc,

I think i should even not exists... this was a bad idea...

Do you think higher states of consciousness are possible as a way to have a more objective perception of reality?

Yes... but probably not "objective" as one would think. "Perception of reality" is, by definition "subjective"... try some intellectual playing: we suppose that at some level, we are "god", so, we become "the creator", so, what "objective perception of reality" means if you litterally creates your reality ? your are not even in some "perception"... to perceive, you have to be "subjective", you have to separate yourself from your creation...

What would you tell someone who comes to you for guidance about achieving these higher states?

"Sorry, i am not a guide, please try to guide you yourself"

7. As a closing question, how does your present state of being/consciousness fit into the abstract framework you have created above and in relation to the previous questions?

What ? let me re-read the question... no, sorry, i don't understand the question...

On the physical and metaphysical levels, what do you stand for?

The key energy of the supreme consciousness from the 16th dimension... no, ok... i am sorry but, you are way too serious, can we set the discussion to a more lightwheight level ?

 

[sedenion]

Hi Alada, i am pretty ok with what you say in the first part of your reply, i will not react on.

There’s still plenty of ego/narcissism in your view of the 'french perspective' there I’d say. It would be hugely ironic if you can write that as being the 'problem' you see here, and yet not see it in yourself.

The fact is i perfectly see "my ego", now let me explain you some key feature of the "ego": "Egos" are mainly disturbed by other egos, and it happen what can be identified as a kind of "mirror effect". If i show you an "huge" ego, your own ego will react and begins to starts a bunch of protective process, the first ones are:
- Tell to the other one that he is egotist (arrogant, etc.)
- Trying to "destroy" the "threat" by reducing it to nothing "you are nothing ! you are minable, deplorable, etc."

Well, where i want to go with this explanation: I exactly know how to do, to be percieved by you as an "non-egotic", and in the opposite, i know on wich thing your ego can react on my own behaviors (well that appear as an arrogant asumption, no ?). So, if know that, maybe if i speak about what i speak about, it is not only a pure egotic motivation. Then, except an "egotic manifestation", what can you learn about what i said ?

You can see at least tow easy things about what i said if you temporarly exclude the egotic manifestation:
- Look, in France we see things other way, maybe there is something that american have some "difficulties" with, while in france, this is less problematic...
- Maybe you are influenced by your own culture (if you are american, i think there is many americans here) in a way you do not suspect.

Finally: Why do you search every time, to find in me, how i am not perfect, egotic, or "not free as i think", instead of simply reading and reacting to what i say ? Maybe it is a protective strategy of your ego, don't you think ?

If you really see our networking here in this way, then already you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

I precisely said : "I know you will answere "but this is not what we does here!", i just explain you some cultural differences..."... and what do you do precisely here ? :) It seem i anticipated the thinking path you are actually processing, so, what could you conclude about your "inner freedom" if i am able to anticipate your reaction by applying some "algorithmic" method ? ;D

Most importantly, we choose to work this way having recognised a fundamental problem – that without a network, it is next to impossible to see yourself as you truly are. But, maybe that’s different if you are french? ;)

I will give you some pretty simple answere:
- Maybe the fact that i am french, give me some natural "reflexes" that are not so natural for who grown under the american culture pressure.
- Maybe i have some ease because of my personnal history (maybe i am a so called wanderer ? that would be funny. however, i don't know, is it important ?).
- Maybe my life path gived me some way to learn about myself and others through some experiences OUTSIDE an "esoteric personnal developement" project.
- Maybe i have a "network", but it is not here (since i am french, USA, and SOTT/Cassopaea are not the center of the univers).
- Maybe my "network" is not made exactly as yours, in some "concentrated way", maybe i use several "network", passing through one and another...
- Maybe i see the sum of all my interactions with all people during my life as a big network.

 

[luc]

It is hard... JPP wrote many things. You can read its "blog" http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/nouveau.htm but there is absolutely everything, from 9/11 to UFO passing by its critics about scientists etc... Or, more about "how science works now", you can try its books "Les enfants du diable" and "Ovnis et armes secrètes américaines: l'extraordinaire témoignage d'un scientifique"... JPP had contacts with U.S and Russian scientists (has its researsh was partialy linked to military projects), so he had some pretty interesting things to tell. If you well understand french, there is also this video which mean interesting... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md2iYgb11zA

Thank you sedenion, that's very helpful.

Yes, it is what i do... so i look to different cultures, different political borders, etc... i like this diversity, i like when people have their own philosophy, there is always something intersting in "how" people builds their own understanding of things. This is why when i come here, and see people refering mostly always to the same sources (Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, etc.), i am little bit disapointed.

I think people in this thread tried to explain their point of view in their own words and didn't just quote Gurdjieff. But if you have a problem with the sources we often use here because we found them helpful, even though I'm not a Gaulliste, I will quote Charles de Gaulles from now on, the great leader of the grande nation himself.

"The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs."
- Charles de Gaulle

Yep, humanity really has gone 'to the dogs'. Note that he talks about men, which I think includes the French too - anyway, that's the first realization: that humanity is in a terrible situation. Now what can we do? As I said above, maybe some sort of evolution is possible? Shouldn't we start with ourselves? I think de Gaulle agrees:

"Nothing great will ever be achieved without great men, and men are great only if they are determined to be so."
- Charles de Gaulle

If that's true, and we want to achieve something, we need to make great efforts and become 'great men' - in other words, personal evolution. However, as we came to understand, there are two paths to greatness; as you know, we call them STS and STO: the first one is to achieve 'greatness' by always winning, crushing others, no matter the price. The second one is achieving greatness by means of honesty, truth, sharing, 'living what you preach', helping others. That way, we hope that 'something great' can be achieved. And yes, for this to happen, we need ideals - not irrational dreams about an 'utopia', but ideals, which we then strive towards. As le général said:

"It is not tolerable, it is not possible, that from so much death, so much sacrifice and ruin, so much heroism, a greater and better humanity shall not emerge."
- Charles de Gaulle

But how to achieve this? We need an approach that is based on an understanding of reality that is as objective as possible:

"Politics, when it is an art and a service, not an exploitation, is about acting for an ideal through realities."
- Charles de Gaulle

But as Alada said - if you think that everything is fine, particularly in France, then you might disagree. Notice however that even if it were true that in France everything is fine, why do people suffer there as well? How long until the whole thing collapses together with the rest of the West? Does this bother you? Shouldn't we look at reality, what is really going on? Because:

"No policy is worth anything outside of reality."
- Charles de Gaulle

Indeed. And if we look at reality, France is as doomed like the rest of the world. By the way, the policies of this forum are also based on reality - people here have much experience, and adjusted/refined the policies of this place according to new understandings of reality.

"I am a man who belongs to no-one and who belongs to everyone."
- Charles de Gaulle

Shouldn't this be the goal - become as free as possible, yet in service to others? In other words, awaken our conscience and make this our master, not some authority? Because, being completely free, that is without any authority AND without conscience, is an illusion - it will only lead to domination and destruction. Now how can we awaken our conscience? That's a whole other topic, about which you will find many discussions here.

Finally:

"How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese?"
- Charles de Gaulle

Indeed, HOW!??

 

[Woodsman]

sedenion:

I see three things here which stand out...

1. You are intelligent and well studied and interested/interesting. These are rare and desirable qualities.

2. You are submitting to a deep program common in most, if not all, people. Economy of Energy. i.e., Work hurts and it’s easier to just keep being an object in motion. -Reading a bunch of books (or learning a language like English which you have done, thus enabling communication here) represents a huge energy expenditure; it’s easier to just keep chugging along with the system you have built for yourself rather than work to examine, change and grow; to add parts and new abilities to your mind and spirit. It’s easier to have an instructor hand feed you “file/copy” knowledge upon demand rather than go hunt for it yourself. Your machine automatically groans and rejects the idea, does not want to undertake the measures necessary to be considerate to the rest of the kids in the class, demanding the teacher's energy be spent inefficiently -on you- so that you don't have to do the assigned homework.

3. A deep dislike of dominating systems. You don’t want to be brainwashed; to submit to authority. What respectable person would not feel this way? No friend of mine! -It is an affront! Especially when Ego is involved! What about YOU? What about YOUR special status? “I am a passing comet.” Ha ha. Maybe, but.., good grief, dude! I feel embarrassed on your behalf to hear you make such a statement. -What we would call around here another program; one which allows you to go on your merry way without having had to expend a whole lot of energy.., but just look at the profitable result: “My own feelings of superiority and specialness reinforced. A comet! Bright, independent star in the heavens, exerting mysterious force upon those hapless in my path. Ahhh. sighhhh.”


Extra comments:

I think the most powerful and useful people often, and perhaps even MUST, start with those qualities and attitudes described above; intelligence, stubbornness and suspicion of forces which might seek to alter their thinking. Those beginning points are healthy, necessary qualities if one is to become any sort of warrior.

But to get to the next level, (and yes, there are levels of awareness, always have been, always will be, despite how offensive it may seem), people must learn that some or many of the programs they are playing host to are NOT theirs, are in fact foreign installations designed to keep them locked in nice, energy-efficient slots, remaining gears in a vast, sleeping machine. You have been deftly turned into your own jailer by the real Authorities. Just look at the convenient results of your current convictions: you are automatically put at war with some of the very people who might help you. You have even been programmed to believe that you should NOT be helped. To announce to people. "Do not try to help me! It would be a big mistake!" How very convenient for your jailers that an intelligent, powerful mind should adopt such an attitude!

However, that last is worth paying attention to, for me, for this forum:

That kind of announcement matters, especially in the esoteric world. Such announcements come early and determine the nature of the future engagement one will have with a person. People always tell you early on exactly what they are worth and what they intend to do.

It is a shame. You sounded like you might have been a rousing and beneficial person to have around, to add another bright facet to the crystal of varied perspectives and to help energize the efforts to rise everybody’s awareness and vibration.

But you are not ready. Maybe you are on a deep level even trying to go back to sleep. That is also common.

If that is not the case, and for whatever reason your readiness changes, one the way to announce it to the Universe (and to those here), would be to do what your jailer, your internal predator, does NOT want you to do. Learn the language. Read the materials suggested, understand the definitions. Spend the energy. And do it with the correct spirit; seeking the opposite of nihilism. -Which IS a binary on an analog scale. Tip the balance in favor of the Creation.

You won’t lose yourself. Quite the contrary.

[...] People can communicate to one another information of a practical character, but as soon as they pass to a slightly more complex sphere they are immediately lost, and they cease to understand one another, although they are unconscious of it. People imagine that they often, if not always, understand one another, or that they can, at any rate, understand one another if they try or want to; they imagine that they understand the authors of the books they read and that other people understand them. This also is one of the illusions which people create for themselves and in the midst of which they live. As a matter of fact, no one understands anyone else. Two men can say the same thing with profound conviction but call it by different names, or argue endlessly together without suspecting that they are thinking exactly the same. Or, vice versa, two men can say the same words and imagine that they agree with, and understand, one another, whereas they are actually saying absolutely different things and do not understand one another in the least.

"If we take the simplest words that occur constantly in speech and endeavor to analyze the meaning given to them, we shall see at once that, at every moment of his life, every man puts into each word a special meaning which another man can never put into it or suspect.

-In Search of the Miraculous ~ P.D. Ouspensky

 

[sedenion]

I think people in this thread tried to explain their point of view in their own words and didn't just quote Gurdjieff. But if you have a problem with the sources we often use here because we found them helpful

I know they do that because they think that would be helpful, good, etc... There are few people in this planet that do things with the conscious intent of deceptions for their own benefits, this is way more often by mistake or caused by some bad reflexes, defensive behaviors, bad influences, etc.

What disappointed me the most, is the reflex to give a link to a whole big litterature, when sometimes it is obviously not needed, and not even a good way to help somebody. I think there is also something with French vs American way to do here.

In france, the vendor do not come imediately encounter you to try to sell you something... the vendor think with the postulat that: You are tall enough to search something by yourself, and maybe, asking a question if you do not find what you search for. I heard that in USA... this habits of "harassing" customers is more frequent and natural (and people live with that, like they endure 15mn of advertising between 5mn of TV show).

Then, i would prefer the method where you read (or listen) what other say, catch what is needed to correct, or what can help him in some manner, then give a little boost, so he can found its answer by himself... but directly throwing to its face a library to read (what he did not ask for), what an horror show...

even though I'm not a Gaulliste, I will quote Charles de Gaulles from now on, the great leader of the grande nation himself.

You are lucky, i am pretty gaullist, but this is not the case of all frenchs, you could provoke some big drama in france with that :)

"The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs."
- Charles de Gaulle

Yep, humanity really has gone 'to the dogs'.

De Gaulle never said that :) ... but i agreed with Madame de Staël: Dogs are way more sincere, honest and faithful than many humans.

Note that he talks about men, which I think includes the French too

"Les français sont des veaux" (the frenchs are veals) - De Gaulle

This one is a real quote from De Gaulle :)

In fact, the real quote is "Ce sont des veaux. Ils sont bons pour le massacre. Ils n’ont que ce qu’ils méritent." (they are veals, good for massacre. They have what they deserve)... but you have to keep in context: http://www.je-suis-stupide-j-ai-vote-hollande.fr/blog/les-francais-sont-des-veaux-charles-de-gaulle/

anyway, that's the first realization: that humanity is in a terrible situation. Now what can we do? As I said above, maybe some sort of evolution is possible? Shouldn't we start with ourselves? I think de Gaulle agrees:

Yes, you can start with yourself, i think you misenderstand my point about this obsession of "personal evolution"... the key word is "obsession".

a

"Nothing great will ever be achieved without great men, and men are great only if they are determined to be so."
- Charles de Gaulle

Exact quote is :
"On ne fait rien de grand sans de grands hommes, et ceux-ci le sont pour l’avoir voulu" (we do nothing without great mens, and these ones are [great] because they wanted it)

If that's true, and we want to achieve something, we need to make great efforts and become 'great men' - in other words, personal evolution.

As you can read in the real quote, there is no notion of "effort", but only "will", which is sightly different... YOU interpreted it as a notion of effort, maybe because you are american :D (i don't know if you are american). What this could mean ? i could say that: There is a difference between "making choices" and "made efforts". Where you see "made efforts" i see, as french, reading another french (De Gaulle): making choices... maybe some choice can lead to situation that needs efforts, but this is another story.

"It is not tolerable, it is not possible, that from so much death, so much sacrifice and ruin, so much heroism, a greater and better humanity shall not emerge."
- Charles de Gaulle

But how to achieve this? We need an approach that is based on an understanding of reality that is as objective as possible:

That is your interpretation according what you attempt to achieve in this forum :D

"Politics, when it is an art and a service, not an exploitation, is about acting for an ideal through realities."
- Charles de Gaulle

We have the ideal, but we need to compose with the reality, trying to reach the ideal (this is what the quote mean). What is to understand here i think, is that "objectivity" is so obvious he don't even mention it... "objectivity" is not THE GOAL (the ideal), it is the obvious WAY (to reach the ideal)...

But as Alada said - if you think that everything is fine, particularly in France, then you might disagree. Notice however that even if it were true that in France everything is fine, why do people suffer there as well?

Yes, everything is fine in France, did you see our honorable president ? http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/466740Hollande.jpg and our prime minister ? https://leblogduduff.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/valls-sexcite.jpg obviously, everything is fine, yes, we live in a perfectly normal world :D

Does i said somewhere that everything is fine (in france or wherever) ? please search, maybe i did a mistake, but that would be a very gross mistake :) France is near about to disapear, France didn't know a crisis like that since, what... the end of the the Hundred Years' War...

How long until the whole thing collapses together with the rest of the West?

Less than 6 years according some alleged non-terrestrial well informed source...

Does this bother you?

bothering is not the good word...

Shouldn't we look at reality, what is really going on?

Absolutely...

"No policy is worth anything outside of reality."
- Charles de Gaulle

"car on ne fait pas de politique autrement que sur des réalités" (we can't do policy other way than on realities)

As you can see, again, the real quote has a sightly different meaning.

Indeed. And if we look at reality, France is as doomed like the rest of the world.

Not as the rest of the world... Syria is in a way worst situation... Amazonian people are in a way better situation. If you want i explain you the current situation of France, i can... i have a very better view of the situation from where i am :D

"I am a man who belongs to no-one and who belongs to everyone."
- Charles de Gaulle

"Je ne suis pas le rois des particuliers" (I am not the king of particulars [particular interests]) Louis XIV... (which mean: i am the king of the general interest)

Yes... french kings it is another story than british ones, like the whole cultural history :D

"How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese?"
- Charles de Gaulle

Indeed, HOW!??

That's why france is so lovely :)

Edit=Fixed Quotes

 

[sedenion]

ho shit, big quote problem in the previous post... sorry