The Will of God

[Iron]

While i agree that Mashie was off topic in the concept he was trying to convey, and certainly could of worded his question a little differently, was there really any need for the mutual back-slapping and self admiration show afterwards?

Please note: The volume of posts definitely does not corrospond to the volume of awareness of an individual ..... sadly, that works in both directions.


* ... looks around for a back to slap ... *

The question he/she was trying to convey was adequately covered in the works of Robert Altenmeyer for one. Maybe, if he/she had tried to read the book, a useful discussion could have ensued.
Unfortunately, many come here with a high, high value of his/her own opinion on matters, without regard for evidence, facts and what have you.
Most foruns tolerate this kind of behaviour, and if you are eloquent enough even reward it positively.
But the AIM of the forum is not to be a "place where I can air my opinions". It is a place for research. It is understood that the members try to keep up with the discussions by learning as much as they can, and that, more often than not, including silencing one's own opinions to listen to what the other can say.
If you look, you will see that he/she made zero efforts to actually try to learn something, so convinced he/she was of the "supremacy" of his/her opinion.

But, yes, the number of posts say nothing about how far a person has progressed in the work. It can be used, however as a sort of gauge of how much the person interacts here via posting, and if he/she "should have known better", or rather should be treated more like a newbie about the work and related topics. FWIW

 

[electrosonic]

William C Chittick talks about Ibn al-arabi's description of the will of god as being ...

The Will of God, and the Wish of God.

"The Will of God, or the Creative Command, is revealed by everything
manifesting in the universe. So every action and every form is of
this Creative Will, and nothing is opposed to this or in
contradiction to this. In this sense, there is no contrasting good
and evil, because all of actuality is God's Will. This satisfies the
Sufi belief that there is no real separation between God and this
world, since there is only God.

Then, the other aspect of God is God's Wish, or Obligating Command,
which represents the purposeful goal of God's creation. It is
concerned with man's reintegration or obedience to the Divine
Order."

(please note: this quote was taken from the internet. I do have William C Chitticks 'Sufi Path of Knowledge' beside me, but it'll take some doing to find this quote among 450 odd pages.)


Could it be that what we have here are rudimentary descriptions of
STO(Will of God) & STS(Wish of God)?

The will of God may be seen as the STO predisposition to see all
aspects of creation as equal to oneself - to be a disperser of
gravity, and constantly regenerate the universe through creation &
network activities.

The wish of God may be seen as the STS predisposition to see every
aspect of creation as different from oneself, and then seek to
subjugate all subordinate aspects, whilst simultaneously submit to
higher aspects, in an effort to reintegrate all, with the end 'wish'
being to return all aspects to one eternal sleep.

'Gods Will' & 'Gods wish' can be seen as two co-existing forces
acting in unison, without which neither could continue to exist.

However you you look at it, we definitely have a very old definition
of the two aspects of creation which we know of today as STO & STS.

Hope this helps.

 

[obyvatel]

Some relevant quotes from Chittick's "The Sufi Path of Knowledge"

[quote author=The Sufi Path of Knowledge pp 292-293]
Ibn Al Arabi sometimes distinguishes these two points of view by speaking of two divine commands. In respect of the first command, God says "Be!" and the whole cosmos comes into existence. In respect of the second, He says to human beings, "Do this and avoid that, or you will fall into wretchedness." The first command is known as the "engendering command" or the command without "intermediary", that is without the intermediary of a prophet , while the second is known as the "prescriptive command" or the command "by intermediary". All created things obey the engendering command, so in this respect there is no evil in existence. But when the prescriptive command - the revealed Law - is taken into account, then some obey and some disobey. People bring both good and evil down upon themselves in respect of the prescriptive command.
[/quote]

Regarding the desire/wish and the will of God

[quote author=The Sufi Path of Knowledge]
The engendering command always coincides with the divine desire. Whenever God desires a thing and says "Be," the object of the command comes into existence.

The Divine Command never contradicts the Divine Desire, since the Desire enters into the Command's definition and reality.
[/quote]


So the Will and Wish of God appear to be the same thing at least in Sufi thought.

Looking at it from a different (4th Way + C inspired) view point, the Absolute Will is unconditioned. As this unconditioned Absolute Will gets manifested through the various levels of Creation, it is conditioned by the "Laws" particular to those levels of Creation. Among other things, these Laws put some bounds on the possibilities (or potentialities ) at the different levels (1D,2D,3D,4D).

Another hypothesis is that significant uncertainty or hazard is built into the very fabric of Creation. It is this hazard that makes exercise of "free will" possible in Creation. If there is no uncertainty or hazard and everything is predetermined, there is little scope for free will (and other stuff like faith, hope, love) to enter into the picture. One of the ways that STS and STO modes of existence can possibly be distinguished is the way this hazard is dealt with. In this conception, STO deals with hazard in a way that expands the possibilities or potentialities (creative expansion) while STS deal with hazard in a way that restricts the possibilities or potentialities (contraction).

Coming back to wishing/willing, at the 3D level, wishing and willing are weakly coupled together. We humans do not have the power to manifest whatever we wish. We are told that it is different in 4D - where wishing and willing are more tightly coupled together.

For 4D STS, wishful thinking becomes reality with the possibility of the "creation" of alternate dimensions or worlds where such reality can be manifest. It is like "if I don't like things the way they are, I am going to create my own little world where I can have full control and get whatever I want". Manifesting (willing) the wishes in this way likely reduces the overall potentiality and is thus a contractile state of existence. STS manipulate and violate the free will of those weaker than them in order to get what they want.

STO on the other hand, is said to work within the "natural flow" of things . This could mean bringing to bear a creative intelligence and will which tries to meet the challenge of the situation within its natural bounds. Free will of all concerned is honored to the greatest possible extent - and this preserves/enhances the overall potentiality.

Speculations fwiw