Theodore Illion: Darkness Over Tibet

Stevie Argyl

Jedi Master
Ok, just finished the Underground City chapter and realise it is fiction and allegory :), Ah. the perils of the left hand path.

Haven't finished yet but wonder if it was an attempt at a wake up call to the German people who'se leaders were forming the Order of Thule, searching for Vril energy in underground Shambala and carrying out all sorts of Occult investigations in the shadow of early 20th Century cultural obsession with Occult and Hypnotism Theosophy and Anthroposophy ?


Jedi Council Member
Haven't finished yet but wonder if it was an attempt at a wake up call to the German people who'se leaders were forming the Order of Thule, searching for Vril energy in underground Shambala and carrying out all sorts of Occult investigations in the shadow of early 20th Century cultural obsession with Occult and Hypnotism Theosophy and Anthroposophy ?
I read excerpt mentioned earlier and this, it was very interesting reading although i didn't read the book, tried to see it on amazon but they don't ship it to my country, not a single book recommended that I can't get in other ways.
Reading it I seen his messages as having deeper meaning not just words and not just ordinary meaning of used words. I liked that he sees real seriousness of situation and although C's said all is lesson, all is choice, but he was more concentrated on consequences of negative actions and where it can lead so it's like slapping you to wake up because we can easily go to sleep. When speaking about this big banana guy i felt darkness, and this was very informative thing because from earlier I knew Tibetans were Vatican of the east(and i find them more negative because they have discipline and psychic powers and use it for control that makes them perfect STS candidates and more negative then those psychopaths and politicians, elite), although C's said it was in Siberia I don't think that what he was telling about Tibet wasn't untrue especially when talking about black magic because it reminded me of movie when Berlin fell Red army found Tibetans who where in a circle and who made suicide after they lost, that is Nazis. And this situation with making dead bodies live, and C's said that it's a story of 4D, it fell on my mind maybe this part is about 4D because they said STS does reanimate dead bodies to serve them so maybe he wanted to show that in a way that it would have impact on people but not make them to see it as a ludicrous(although many did even if he used metaphors). And mentioning of eating human flesh i think could be true because "Don Juan" talked about many sorcerers and what are they capable of doing. I read article about Hitler's associate and his meeting with Master race when blood got on his nose and ears and how he felt terrible, which only tells how much their are radiating with negative force and sucking life force by demagnetizing your centers, pure "evil". It was also interesting when he said that there was collectivity there, no individuality, which reminded me of that case with alien hair, when two female blond es came to rape this guy and they got confused after he started coughing and he said he heard them telepathically saying that it isn't right, it wasn't supposed to be like that, it seems they have no creativity and don't really use their brains although on 4D, they are like robots.


FOTCM Member
Just a few words following my review of Illion’s book last weekend titled here. Have also attached some further things on Tibet concerning other Dark intrigues centered around Tibetan sects, particularly the Dalai Lama and the Karmapa.

First, would like to thank you thorbiorn for your detailed review and to kenlee for your added critique, as well as others. Second, would like to add a couple of details that were registering in mind through the pages. Initially read Laura’s work of the same title parts I, II & III sometime ago and was and have been interested in this historical region – what to make of Illion’s account?

The substance as stated was well reviewed above, however, the author seems the enigma as much as what he was describing to some extent; the possible 4th density allegorical connections as the C’s indicated.

So back to Illion the author, the pseudonym name of these written pages.

Here is a link to a translated Finnish (not sure why it was not in English) Wikipedia page about Illion:

Theodore Illion

Theodore Illion or Illion Theodor (b. 1898 - d. 1984 in Salzburg) was a writer and explorer.
Size Illionin personality has remained mostly obscure, and he has virtually no other information available as four record in his Tiibe tin trips. Illion also used the pseudonym Theodor Burang and Th. Nolling . Nolling.

Make some anecdotal evidence that Illion had been born in Canada and would have been for the Theosophical Society .

Illionin works veracity are many different opinion and according to some, they are mostly fiction. Illion describes, inter alia, in Tibet, the underground city, from which the dark forces of a representative director affects the whole world.
The Canada connection was interesting but it offers no evidence that can be seen; there are a lot of references in other languages, especially German that is not easily understood for me.

However, upon reading the book, noticed a few points of possible interest that were made by Illion such as this:

Illion on page 129 talked about; “At the time when I gave my first broadcast in 1933 I positively detested collars {…} executives in a continental country […] if I appeared in the broadcasting house minus a collar {…}.”

Illion published both his books in 37/38 – and assuming he was not in Tibet, did he give Broadcasts of this apparent travel or just what was he broadcasting, who would he be? Broadcasts are public things with records, so not sure who was Broadcasting in 33; perhaps just a red herring.

If memory serves, Illion also discussed play production/writing or similar but have not found that yet.

The most interesting thing along these lines, osit, seemed to be his repeated references to Shakespeare, which may not seem odd to many but in this context it was very similar to what authors like Manly P. Hall and probably others wrote concerning Shakespeare and his alleged folio authenticity as also being a pseudonym - maybe so, maybe not so. Here is what Illion makes note of on one footnote:

Illion - footnotes (p118) concerning “voice” he said said:
* especially people who have gone through great soul-passion, this greatest gift of God, as it welds us more and more into one unit with our soul, have a fine human touch in their voices. I imagine Shakespeare, the real Shakespeare who sketched all those wonderful characters having souls of their own, must have had this beautiful “timber” in his voice, making one think of an Angel of the Creator.
So illion discusses plays, broadcasts, executives and Shakespeare, the real Shakespeare, whoever he was; F. Bacon was mentioned as a candidate once or twice from others. Nevertheless, the very name Illion is interesting on its own.

In a Shakespeare folio we have:

Brag. The Armipotent Mars of Launces the almighty,
Gaue Hector a gift, the heire of Illion;
A man so breathed, that certaine he would fight: yea
From morne till night, out of his Pauillion.
I am that Flower
Then we have the Character Count Rossillion

Then King Iohn. “Now say Chatillion, what would France with vs?

Not to mention the Million’s and Billion’s used often in Shakespeare works as well as being used in common words and other big mathematical words -numbers to ILLION - BIllion /Septtillion/Nonegentillion.

Illion also describes himself as having a “lion temperament to describe himself (il – lion).

There is references in the Theosophical Society to Illion and we have of course Alexandra David-Neel who was the first female European traveler to Tibet around the same time..

Illion gets something like 924 results in Google, most from authors who site his two books. Also, there is the Author of a book called, described above in the Wikipedia translation – ‘Tibetan Art of Healing ’ by Theodore Burang – 1975, (this might be interesting to read as an aside); Burang by the way is a prefecture in Tibet. So who is this Theodore Burang, another pseudonym. Here is a link to ‘Die Kunst des Heilens im Fernen Osten; with other German references not translated here.

T.Illion’s 2 books of 37/38 were published by the English firm of Ryder & Co.

That is about as far as I’ve been able to look at this and should read the initial book called ‘In Secrets Tibet’.

Darkness continued:

When talking about Tibet and its religious practices and roots, many today think of the Dalai Lama exclusively. Many might think of him as the figure head of Tibetan religion, and in-away he is, but he is also more so the Political leader of the Yellow Hats. Back in the 80’s I became aware of the issues surrounding the Karmapa, the spiritual leader of Tibetan religion in events that have been written in something called ‘The Karmapa Papers’ surrounding the Kagyu lineage reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa. Essentially, now, there are two Karmap’s vying for spiritual control in Tibet, with one being the acknowledged candidate of the Dalai Lama who is in fact the Chinese candidate. The other is from the Sharmapa who is of the lineage of the Red/Black Hat’s and who’s lineage has historically chosen the reincarnated Karmapa.

The Dalai Lama’s lineage being Galugpa, seems to have tried to assimilate the other schools under his wing. There were attempts to co-opt the Kagyu school and seize control of the Black Hat. There are 4 religious schools in Tibet with the Galugpa, yellow Hats rising to power in the 1300’s. The Yellow Hats almost seem to have co-opted portions of other sects like a type of religious pathocracy at the upper hierarchy, and it has been so since the 1700’s. The Bon by the way are considered the 5th school and have links to ancient Iran.

The following is a documentary if interested concerning further Darkness over Tibet. The last two links are related to the Kagyu Sharmapa who is being persecuted by the Yellow Hats.

If you don’t want to watch these, have provided a overview as best I could of this documentary; it can be confusing because the two Karmaps are similarly named.

The Documentary is available on YouTube:

Black Hats vs. Yellow Hats with the Dalai Lama (DL) being somehow pivotal.

Urgyen Tinely Dorge, the Chinese Karmapa candidate and his supporters claims he is after the Black Hat, but it is not there at the Monastery as they thought, and he then leaves with no available crown and rushes to cozy-up to the DL. The tail of his flight from Tibet seems like a convenient ruse and does not add up, it is facilitated by the Chinese via one of their wealthy merchants from Lhasa who is a dealer in Pasmina Wool (the missing Land Rover). There is intrigues, helicopters, and superpowers resulting in a final pony rides in the dark with a stop to a woman’s house because they were freezing and where they did not even give blessings; no compassion, she said. Then they go over Thorang La Pass (5,415 meters) down towards Annapurna with no problems apparently as there was a helicopter pad where they were picked-up with connections to the old CIA and ‘Fishtail Air’ – no flight records of course. Well then there is also his sister who just happened to be there 3 weeks before his own arrival as she traveled with an entourage of monks.

Sikkim however is also pivotal as it is the place between powers; India and China and the Indians will not allow the Chinese Karmapa (Urgyen Tinely Dorge ) to come there. Was it just for the Black Hat, control and wealth? Perhaps covert plans were made between factions of monks in Sikkim over the coronation of the Karmapa - a monk is stabbed – Indian police arrive and Tisetu, the Chinese Karmapa’s facilitator flees the area – the journey to Rumtek is over for the Chinese Karmapa for his Black Hat Crown and he head back to the Galupo order of the DL, crossing into India with false UN papers with his last stop Dharamshala. Later he leaves the hotel refuge by helicopter and flies over the Milarepa Cave – one Lama says that we have lost are way of the Dharma and traded it away for bought religious titles and expensive cars – this is why there is two Karmapa’s, two Pocha Lamas, we are divided [divide and concur rule] – the Dharma is Broken.

The Politics of Reincarnation

The 14th DL as well as Situ Rinpoche & Gyaltsab Rinpoche endorse the succession of the Rangjung Rigpa Dorje, the 16th Karmapa. The DL, through his choice of Urgyen Tinely Dorji (Chinese candidate) which came to him apparently in a dream of the area locator, which of course could be applied to almost every valley. The dream according to some was the work of the Galupo order to take over their ancient rivals the Gelukpa school. However, the first born Karmapa, Trinley Thaye Dorji is not recognised by those Yellow Hats. He is recognized however by the Karma Kagyu order and by their lama Shamar Rinpoche. This Kagyu Karmapa does not sit well with other some other Hats and the Chinese. Tai Situ Rinpoche who fled from Rumtek earlier when plans failed, was given two letters from the 16th Karmapa before his death, so he claims, and is accused of falsifications by the Kagyu and has not made the document public offering to prove his (Chinese) candidate. His holiness the DL does not have the lineage to transmit the empowerment and initiation blessings according to S. Yongda – DL is not the religious authority.

The 14th Mipham Chokyi Lodro Sharmapa, says that the DL has tried to centralize/unify the schools; 4 or 5 schools with one being the Bon, one of the other Buddhist sects under his authority in the early years of his exile. When the 16th Karmapa died, this lead the way of a Galupa plan to split the young Gelukpa school and then install a friendly Karmapa who would overthrow policies and support the Galupa order.

Trinley Thaye Dorji Karmapa; first born Karmapa (Kagyu) is interviewed (from exile in France) and he discusses the problem with mixing politics and religion as is the case for some and realizes they need to be kept separate – power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely he says.

Then we have the premise that there could be two Urgyen Tinely’s (Chinese Candidate) with one being the imposter who (possibly was allowed) escaped. There is a ten year discrepancy of his age - hushed up political conundrum of Tinely’s age. Medical analysis of his age shows; he was stated as being 14yrs old but that he was actually 24 yrs old which seems to have been confirmed – this would not match the original candidates birth. The analysis says Tinely was born between 1973 – 1979; three years before the death of the 16th Karmapa and this disqualifies him of course because he cannot be reborn before he dies at least to the time physics we understand. Who is he? The identity switch seemed to have taken place in 1997 when he went into a retreat at age 11 @ 4ft in height, but emerged 4 months later as an adult 6ft Karmapa. All the personnel during this time were removed and replaced. Further, the two Lamas associated with the Karmapa died untimely deaths. Why the switch, insiders say it is because he original had problems with memory and had blackouts and had to be kept away from public view. The whereabouts of the real Urgyen Tinely Dorji is the deepest darkest mystery that will haunt the monastery for years to come.

The Karmapa Papers

Please also note "The Karmapa Papers" (Trailer)

His Eminence and Venerable Shamar Rinpoche

Mipham Chokyi Lodro Sharmapa gives an interesting analogy of three Birds with the intentions of the DL and the other players. The Karmapa is born in my family, he is my uncle, he’s brother to my father says the Sharmapa. The 16th Karmapa has four brothers/four sisters, my father was number two brother. Behind me is eight generations in this area and before we were in Mongolia. My father received letter from Karmapa who is in Lhasa in center of Tibet - no automobiles at that time; letter takes two months to be received by my family, two months before I was born. The letter to my family says the coming son of you (1952) will be the incarnation of the high lama of his school. My father made a point that he will die soon and he instructed my mother to try and escape to India. Two and a half years later he died and my mother sent two sons to Karmapa in center Tibet and then we can go to India he instructed. Mother was waving with white scarf when we separated my brother and I; I was 3 and a half and he was six. My brother and I went with Karmapa to India, first by mule to Sikkim. When we arrived in Sikkim, wow, the Karmapa was received very highly by the Sikkim King. Then by instruction of the Dalai Lama 1956-57 I was informed at monastery and we then left for India by way of Bhutan. Then Tibet is entirely changed in 1959 and Karmapa party had to escape to India – 300 people together, Karmapa and his monks and people leave. Communists – escape, King respected in Sikkim, moved Karmapa to old Rumtek monastery, which is Karmapa sect. King gave Karmapa land behind old Rumtek and they developed new Rumtek Monastery.

I am attached with Karmapa because I was blessed at monastery, seat of happy Karmapa. I’m still as his nephew, his family. Their most important tactic (Gulupa) is when they attack you, when they attack you (attack on Rumtek Monastery) they say you attack me. State, sects all naïve collaborators with China. With new Karmapa he is not part of political posturing. Blessings is all we can make to try and make things run well, that’s all.


Jedi Master
I don't know if this has been discussed here (long thread to read and very little time), but in my version of the book, after the final chapters and some photographs (namely of a Tibetan girl and a tantric lama) there is a reference to Alexandra David-Neel accompanied by a photograph of her in Tibet with a guide.

Also another curious thing is in the beginning of the book there is a photo of T. Illion (which by the way, if someone told me it was a woman "disguised" as a man i would believe it) with a hand written signature below it. The curious thing is that it is signed thus, T. illion (the illion is not with a capital letter).

Don't know if this adds something to what Laura speculated in an article concerning the book, about Illion being en reality Alexandra David-Neel.


Dagobah Resident
I haven't read "Darkness Over Tibet" yet, although I have a copy of it. My copy is the Rider (no date, but published in 1938). The rear panel of the dustjacket has publisher's advertisements for Illion's previous book "In Secret Tibet", Paul Brunton's "The Quest of the Overself" and Eliphas Levi's "Transcendental Magic".)

On the subject of an underground base, I can think of 3 literary precedents:

1. Blavatsky and the underground location of the Great White Brotherhood. (I am not familiar with the authenticity or sources of Blavatsky's writings.)

2. The novel "Om: The Secret of Abhor Valley" by Talbot Mundy, first published in 1926.


3. the last few chapters of "Beasts, Men and Gods" by Ferdinand Ossendowski (New York: E. P. Dutton & Co, 1922).

Ossendowski's is as far as I know a true narrative, of Osswendoswki's flight from Siberia in 1920-1921 across Mongolia, fleeing the Reds. He travelled through parts of Mongolia where Tibetan Buddhism and its system of monks and monasteries were prevalent. He did not visit an underground kingdom himself, but gives traditional accounts narrated to him by several Mongolians. Here are some quotes:

"I received more realistic information about this from Hutuktu Jelyb Djamsrap in Narabanchi Kure. He told me the story of the semi-realistic arrival of the powerful King of the World from the subterranean kingdom, of his appearance, of his miracles and of his prophecies; and only then did I begin to understand that in that legend, hypnosis or mass vision, whichever it may be, is hidden not only mystery but a realistic and powerful force capable of influence the course of political life of Asia. From that moment I began making some investigations.

The favourite Gelong Lama of Prince Chultun Beyli and the Prince himself gave me an account of the subterranean kingdom.

'Everything in the world,' said the Gelong, 'is constantly in a state of change and transition - peoples, science, religions, laws and customs. How many great empires and brilliant cultures have perished! And that alone which remains unchanged is Evil, the tool of Bad Spirits. More than sixty thousand years ago a Holyman disappeared with a whole tribe of people under the ground and never apeeared again on the surface of the earth.'

[. . .]

'The subterranean people have reached the highest knowledge. Now it is a large kingdom, millions of men with the King of the World as their ruler. He knows all the forces of the world and reads all the souls of humankind and the great book of their destiny.'

[. . .]

Prince Chultun Beyli added: 'This kingdom is Agharti. It extends throughout all the subterranean passages of the whole world. I heard a learned Lama of China relating to Bogdo Khan that all the subterranean caves of America are inhabited by the ancient people who have disappeared underground. Traces of them are still found on the surface of the land.'

[. . .] The Lama Turgut traveling with me from Urga to Peking gave me further details.

'The capital of Agharti is surrounded with towns of high priests and scientists. It reminds one of Lhasa where the palace of the Dalai Lama, the Potala, is the top of a mountain covered with monasteries and temples. The thron of the King of the World is surrounded by millions of incarnated Gods. They are the Holy Panditas. The palace itself is encircled by the Palaces of the Goro, who possess all the visible and invisible forces of the earth, of inferno and of the sky and who can do everything for the life and death of man. If our mad humankind should begin a war against them, they would be able to explode the whole surface of our planet and transform it into deserts. They can dry up the seas, transform lands into oceans and scatter the moutnains into the sands of the deserts. By his order trees, grasses and bushes can be made to grow; old and feeble men can become young and stalwart; and the dead can be resurrected. In cars strange and unknown to us they rush through the narrow cleavages inside our planet. Some Indian Brahmans and Tibetan Dalai Lamas during their laborious struggles to the peaks of mountains which no other human feet had trod have found there inscriptions carved on the rocks, footprints in the snow and the tracks of wheels. The blissful Sakkia Mouni found on one mountain top tables of stone carrying words which he only understood in his old age and afterwards penetrated into the Kingdom of Agharti, from which he brought back crumbs of the sacred learning preserved in his memory. There in palaces of wonderful crystal live the invisible rulers of all pious people, the King of the World or Brahytma, who can speak with God as I speak with you, and his two assistants, Mahytma, knowing the purposes of future evenes, and Mahynga, ruling the causes of these events.'

'The Holy Panditas study the world and all its forces. Sometimes the learned among them collect together and send envoys to that place where the human eyes have never penetrated. This is described by the Tashi Lama living eight hundred and fifty years ago. The highest Pandita place their hands on their eyes and at the base of the brain of younger ones and force them into a deep sleep, wash their bodies with an infusion of grass and make them immune to pain and harder than stones, wrap them in magic cloths, bind them and then pray to the Great God. The petrified youths lie with eyes and ears open and alert, seeing, hearing and remembering everything. Afterwards a Goro approaches and fastens a long, steady gaze upon them. Very slowly the bodies lift themselves from the earth and disappear. The Goro sits and stares with fixed eyes to the place whither he has sent them. Invisible threads join them to his will. Some of them course among the stars, observe their events, their unknown peoples, their life and their laws.'

[. . .]

These are the tales which I heard in the Mongolian yurtas of Princes and in the Lamaite monasteries. These stories were all related in a solemn tone which forbade challenge and doubt."
- Beasts, Men and Gods, by Ossendowski, Ferdinand (Officier d'Academie Francaise). New York: E. P. Dutton & Company, 1924 printing (the first printing was in 1922). Pages 301-306.


FOTCM Member
It seems to me that some of these ideas could be based on the ancient belief that the sun, moon, comet gods, descended into the earth when they went below the horizon. There are also vast cities under the earth in Anatolia that date back many thousands of years that may have been constructed during times of severe comet bombardment. And that is not, of course, the exclude the hyperdimensional explanation from consideration.


Dagobah Resident
voyageur said:
So illion discusses plays, broadcasts, executives and Shakespeare, the real Shakespeare, whoever he was; F. Bacon was mentioned as a candidate once or twice from others. Nevertheless, the very name Illion is interesting on its own.
FWIW, I think Shakespeare's plays were written by Sir Henry Neville (c1562-1614). I find the topic quite difficult to discuss with people, as the field of alternative authorship studies for Shakespeare's plays has on the one hand attracted a fair share of quacks and quackery, while on the other hand the mainstream academia for the most part ridicule the subject unfairly. Then there is the problem that people assume you are being some kind of snob by thinking that William Shakspere of Stratford-upon-Avon could not have written the plays, and that only some Earl or noble could have. I used to assume that (i.e. that alternative authorship candidates were snobs) myself, but there is a lot more to the story.

I think there are good reasons why the most popular alternative candidates (Francis Bacon, Edward de Vere the Earl of Oxford, Christopher Marlowe) could not have written the plays, e.g. problems with chronology, or the fact that other writings those candidates left do not match what Shakespeare wrote at all well in terms of style or general "feel". Sir Henry Neville, in his capacity as England's Ambassador to France and a politician, did leave other writings, in what are now quite obscure volumes e.g. Sir Ralph Winwood's Memorials of Affairs of State in the Reigns of Queen Elizabeth and King James I, published 1725.

Henry Neville is a relatively recent contender, introduced by Brenda James in her book (co-authored with historian William D. Rubinstein):
The Truth Will Out: Unmasking the Real Shakespeare (2005).

Her second book on the subject is:
Henry Neville and the Shakespeare Code (2008).

An easy general introduction to the topic, with chapters on the pros and cons of the main alternative authorship candidates (Rubinstein kind of sneakily doesn't mention that Sir Henry Neville is the one he most definitely prefers) is:
Who Wrote Shakespeare's Plays? by William D. Rubinstein (2012).

A more scholarly summation of problems with the idea that William Shakspere of Stratford-on-Avon wrote the plays, but which does not argue for any particular alternative candidate, is:
Shakespeare's Unorthodox Biography: New Evidence of an Authorship Problem by Diana Price (2001).

William Shakspere of Stratford-upon-Avon did exist, and was a landowner, and was a shareholder in a theatre company, and an actor in London. This does not mean he was also a playwright. A. J. Pointon has written a good book about what we actually know of Shakspere of Stratford-upon-Avon (this individual's name was only spelt Shaksper or Shakspere during his lifetime, excluding on the plays and poems themselves whose authorship is at issue):
The Man Who Was Never Shakespeare: The Theft of William Shakespeare's Identity by A. J. Pointon (2011).

Following on from Brenda James, John Casson has also written a couple of books on Sir Henry Neville as the author:

Enter Pursued by a Bear: The Unknown Plays of Shakespeare-Neville (2009)
Much Ado About Noting: Henry Neville and Shakespeare's Secret Source (2010)

I would love to know what the C's think about whether or not Sir Henry Neville was the author of the plays. :)


FOTCM Member
Mal7 said:
voyageur said:
So illion discusses plays, broadcasts, executives and Shakespeare, the real Shakespeare, whoever he was; F. Bacon was mentioned as a candidate once or twice from others. Nevertheless, the very name Illion is interesting on its own.
FWIW, I think Shakespeare's plays were written by Sir Henry Neville (c1562-1614).


I would love to know what the C's think about whether or not Sir Henry Neville was the author of the plays. :)
I'll have to read what is said of Neville - thanks.

Mal7 said:
I haven't read "Darkness Over Tibet" yet, although I have a copy of it. My copy is the Rider (no date, but published in 1938). The rear panel of the dustjacket has publisher's advertisements for Illion's previous book "In Secret Tibet", Paul Brunton's "The Quest of the Overself" and Eliphas Levi's "Transcendental Magic".)

It is worth reading.

It seems to me that this geographical area, steeped in mystery and forbidden access, was the subject of many tales in those years. One such was the Marquis Alexandre Saint-Yves D'Alveydre (1886), The Kingdom of Agarttha, who may have spurred some of these tales on. People such as Alexandra David-Neel, of 'Forbidden Journey' wrote about some things, and think if memory serves she was associated with Blavatsky while living in France.

Laura said:
It seems to me that some of these ideas could be based on the ancient belief that the sun, moon, comet gods, descended into the earth when they went below the horizon. There are also vast cities under the earth in Anatolia that date back many thousands of years that may have been constructed during times of severe comet bombardment. And that is not, of course, the exclude the hyperdimensional explanation from consideration.
In reading some of the examples of their writings and legends, this seems to be very probable, which is to say that if it was happening in other parts of the world, and it was, it was happening in Tibet, and their priests/leaders, like others in those social circles, needed explanations for people. As for the hyperdimentional aspects, i agree, this cannot be discounted based on the high strangeness and writings of those times, which is still little understood and am not sure it can so easily ever be.


Dagobah Resident
thorbiorn said:
020504 said:
Q: [Laughter from all] (L) I want to ask about this book I was reading earlier by T. Illion. He claims that he traveled to Tibet and found this underground city and interacted with these strange people. Was this an actual trip this guy made in a traditional 3rd density sense?
A: It is a disguise for conveying truths of a spiritual nature as well as a depiction of 4th Density realities.
Q: (L) Did he physically travel to Tibet?
A: No.
Q: (B) Sounds like he gained some inner awareness and used a story to convey it. (L) Did he travel anywhere?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Did he travel somewhere else and get this information and then accurately portray it as being centered in Tibet?
A: Yes.
Q: (B) Were his other travels in 3rd density?
A: Yes.
Q: (B) Is it important where he traveled?
A: Yes.
Q: (B) Well you know what the next question is (laughter). What would be his destination? Where did he travel?
A: Siberia.
Q: (B) Does it have anything to do with the spot in Siberia or Russian mountains that has the electromagnetic labs or whatever it was that they were discussing before?
A: Close.
Q: (A) Well still the question is: in the book he said he knew the Tibetan language.
A: He did.
Q: (A) In Siberia they don't use Tibetan language. (L) He didn't have to be using the Tibetan language. (A) What language is he using in Siberia, probably Russian. (L) I don't know. I've never been there. Well they didn't say he didn't know Russian. (A) That's true. (L) Was the place that he really traveled to a place that was positive that was telling about a place that was negative?
A: Yes.
The region where Tibetan Buddhism is practiced does seem to have extended into Siberia, where in the early 20th century there were several Tibetan Buddhist monasteries, which in Siberia were called "datsans". I don't know how widely the Tibetan language was spoken in Siberia, but I imagine it would have at least been a minority language in areas where Tibetan Buddhism was practiced. Tibetan Buddhism and the Tibetan language are also practiced and spoken in regions of India (e.g. Ladakh), Nepal (e.g. Mustang Valley, Dolpo), and China.

From Wikipedia:
Datsans were officially acknowledged in Imperial Russia in 1734. By statute of 1853 there were two recognized datsans in the Irkutsk government and others in the Zabaykalsky Government. The first datsan in Europe was Gunzechoyney datsan in St. Petersburg. Between 1927 and 1938 all 47 datsans existed in Buryatia and Transbaikalia were closed or destroyed.
- _

Here is a quote from a website on Buddhism in Russia:

Brief History: Mongolian and Tibetan lamas first appeared on the eastern shores of Lake Baikal in the middle of the 17th century and quickly spread Buddhism in the area. Later in that century Buddhism emerged as the dominant religion in Tuva. The Kalmyks who migrated from China to the lower reaches of the Volga in the later half of the 17th century also professed Buddhism.
Tzarist authorities were fairly tolerant with respect to Buddhists. In the 1930s the Buddhists suffered more than any other religious community in the Soviet Union. Prosperous monasteries and churches, many of which were architectural masterpieces, were closed. All Buddhist religious buildings in the Khalmyk Republics and Tuva were razed as were most Buddhist monasteries in the Buryat Republic. Not a single functioning temple and not a single lama remained. After the Second World War, two temples with a limited number of monks were built. Religious life was under rigid official control. The late 1980s saw a renaissance of Buddhism; monasteries were opened and the publication of spiritual literature and periodicals resumed. In early 1991 a Buddhist school opened at the Ivolginski Datsan.
- _

This website has a photo and description of "Ivolginsky Datsan, located in East Siberia near Lake Baikal":

One example of the Illion's more-than-superficial familiarity with the Tibetan language is on page 81, where he shows his knowledge that Tibetan language has a separate "honorific" vocabulary for addressing nobles:

Suddenly the servant almost opened his mouth with amazement. What was the matter? I realized that I had committed the dreadful crime of using the words "mthon" and "thos" in answering His Excellency, instead of employing the more polite and ceremonial words "gzigs" and "gsan", which mean exactly the same thing.
- p. 81, Darkness Over Tibet.


Dagobah Resident
thorbiorn said:
T. Illion on page 138 of Darkness over Tibet said:
He even touched on the problem of politics, dictatorships*, and mass rule, and seemed to be against sport!
Anyhow, one notices in the above excerpt that the author is putting attention to “dictatorship" and mentioning it as a problem, while hiding behind an excuse, at the same time bringing up politics, and all this is immediately followed by the colour black used by many Nazis, which he refused to put on.

In the above quote, why is he highlighting sport by putting it in italics? Was the author really into sport and horrified by the opposition to sport. Or was he trying to underline that the Prince of the World, or the Ruler of the Underground City was not a caricature of Hitler, who for what I know promoted sport?

The way sport is used in the book leaves one in doubt whether the Prince and the author understand sport in the same way. Sport has several meanings, it can be a job, a business, entertainment or reality escape, an exercise, or a tool for manipulation. (Those who have read Beelzebub's tale to his grandson will know that he also was not in favour of sport.) In any case taken as a whole, I can only conclude that the remarks in the book were directed to wake up people in Germany not only to the disturbing realities of the spiritual field but also the political.
My copy of the book (London: Rider, no date [but c.1937-1939]) has the italics on "against" and not on "sport". This still seems to have much the same meaning, but with the emphasis on the unusualness of being "against" rather than "for" sport, rather than the unusualness of being against sport in particular.



The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Some of them even seemed to feel that
the Holy Ruler could actually influence the destinies
of the world by hastening or retarding the out-break of wars,
the evolution of new types of
epidemics and the disappearance of older kinds of
disease, as well as the action of other scourges of
humanity,including the various catastrophes of
Nature. They seemed to consider the Holy Jewel
as a kind of supreme judge dispensing Divine justice,
and naturally felt very elated at the thought of
standing so near a being who possessed all these
This quote from Illion's book is quite telling if we
take into account what was written in Comets and the Horns of

Historically, when a people begin to perceive atmospheric, geological, climatic disruption and all the ills that these bring on a society, including famine, plague and pestilence, they individually and collectively look to their leaders to fix things. That is where the concept of the Divine King came from to begin with: the king was supposed to be able to intercede for his people with the gods. If the king was unsuccessful with his intercession, a solution had to be found. Sacrifices were made, rituals were performed, and of course, if that didn't work, if the gods remained angry, then the king had to die. This is possibly due to a similar brain switch that drives people to seek whatever relieves the stress on their brain: if the gods are angry, find a scape-goat. And when it is the nation that is threatened, the most obvious guilty person or persons are those in charge, the king and his elite. What's more, they know their vulnerability to this reaction instinctively.
Perhaps these people retained some memory in their subconscious
about cyclical catastrophes, since they especially mention
wars, epidemics and various catastrophes of


Jedi Council Member
The particular name of the title attracted my curiosity since I saw it on the recommended books list(the passages you transcribed here gave me a similar feeling that I encountered when I was reading Castaneda). I am very glad to have read your analysis thorbiorn. I think I will buy it soon, and thanks!


The Force is Strong With This One
Just readed (twice in fact), I'm very impressed on its balance, lack of dogma, respect for absolute freedom and hard to understand aspects of Truth relayed on simple ways.

First the important:​
"Dolma had brought a lot of food from her tent. Surely women are alike everywhere. They never lose sight of the physical well-being of someone in whom they are interested."
I wasted all my youth trying to figure out this one. ;-)

And now, the trivial:​
The hermits—who were no "soul-snatchers" this time, but strong and powerful individuals who were intensely personal and yet acted impersonally
Full I-consciousnes is not necessarily brutality and selfishness . Man can be intensely personal and yet act quite impersonally.
In my opinion this may be the key to detect a psycopath. Al all them are impersonal (his personality seems a cut & paste) but the act in a very personally, especially, attacking a souled one.

Illion describes the only not fixable sin. Even if you purposely starve millions, like Stalin, the law on karma comes to help you and on an second or a hundred million years of not so pleasurable time you can regain your status. Form me, this sin is described in the 3rd temptation of Christ:

"Well , then, what is a sin against one's soul ?" "Using spiritual things for selfish purposes.Dragging God down on earth."
I consider the two first temptations really naïve, compared to the 3rd. May be witchcraft falls into this category.

Illion describes "The prince of light", a fallen angel on disguise, as powerless against our divine attribute, as humans: "Free Will" , so the only way to take something from a man is seducing him (This remenbers me again the Christ temptations, as "Son of Man" )
"Many of us here realize of what enormous value you could be to us if you decided to join us of your own free will. " [...]"It is you who wil l have to decide," he said, "and the moment you have taken your decision the Prince of Light wil l assign to you the exalted position in which ou wil l be most useful."
As C's said STO oriented people are always under attack, but also given great protection:
their white claws all aimed at my heart as if they were determined to snatch something hidden in it. When this dreadful army approached once more, the boys dressed in white advanced to protect me. Their faces had an individual touch, each boy having a facial expression entirely different from the other. [...]Then one of the boys blew a silver trumpet, and, with the suddenness of an eagle pouncing down from the sky, a glorious figure descended from Heaven like a flash of lightning. His face was a curious mixture of the face of a lion and that of a handsome young man. His voice sounded like the roar of the sea swelling into one mighty harmony when he almost roared the words, "Leave this child alone !"
Finally, Illion puts the material human ways, like gender issues, and physical needs and limitations in a constructive giving everything its place.

A delicious reading.

Top Bottom