Tired of your job? Ways to make money.

[RyanX]

<snip>

I continue working after that, while finishing my BA degree in psychology...

<snip>

Practically speaking, we have looked into a few jobs--none of which are ready to start yet--more like May. We have items on Craig's list: 4 solar panels, wood cook stove, a generator. We hate to part with these items, but we need the cash if we are to rent a house somewhere. Someone we lent money to is sending part of what he owes next week. Seems like a bad risk to rent in the area when we don't know yet about the jobs. Only one job is for now and is a continuing one--here at the B&B once we move out, on the 15 April. Its not enough to live on.
A lot could happen in the next week. A place to go to, for instance. We are open. If we were to move, we know not where, but we could manage it financially. Perhaps we are to stay here.

Had to make a long post here...apologies!

SolarMother,

Did you ever finish your BA in psychology? If so, wouldn't you qualify for certain types of work? Maybe look into non-profits, shelters and places like that. I have a friend who works at a shelter for trouble teens and she just has a BA in sociology. It might be something to look into if you're looking for work, although you'd probably have to move back to a larger city somewhere to find that kind of work.

One week seems like a pretty short time to fall into a job, especially given the way the economy is right now! At least you and Mr. Anderson have each other and I know facing this situation has got to be a lot easier with two heads instead of just one. Hang in there!

 

[Mr. Premise]

Solar Mother, there are a couple of phrases you are using repeatedly that are concerning. First is when you say the C's say we should "manipulate 3D." I doubt they ever said that. They did say that in order to graduate we had to learn the lessons of 3D. But the term 'manipulate' has a negative connotation that I think is revealing of your attitude.

Second, you keep referring to jobs as "slave jobs." whatever happened to the dignity of labor? :) seriously, though, don't you think that maybe that attitude is an impediment?

While the C's never said to manipulate 3D, Gurdjieff did say that 4th Way Work can only start at the level of an Obyvatel. Have you had a chance to read Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous? Many excerpts have been posted here so you could do a search on Tramps and Obyvatels and find the passage.

I know what you are going through is very rough. The problem all of us face, especially those like me in our fifties, is that we can get impatient when we think we've learned a lesson to have all the consequences fixed, but if we've spent 30 years digging a hole for ourselves is it realistic to expect to get out of the hole overnight?

I think that if you really look within to see why you were open to victimization by a psychopath, really learn that lesson, and then change your attitude towards jobs and such that things will open up.

But we have to pay all in advance. By the way, you may also want to reread the quote by Madame de Salzman, too about lying to ourselves and trying to get off cheaply.

Sorry for the sermon... We've all made mistakes based on our illusions and self-importance, so you're not alone.

[edit, fixed punctuation]

 

[SolarMother]

<snip>

I continue working after that, while finishing my BA degree in psychology...

<snip>

Practically speaking, we have looked into a few jobs--none of which are ready to start yet--more like May. We have items on Craig's list: 4 solar panels, wood cook stove, a generator. We hate to part with these items, but we need the cash if we are to rent a house somewhere. Someone we lent money to is sending part of what he owes next week. Seems like a bad risk to rent in the area when we don't know yet about the jobs. Only one job is for now and is a continuing one--here at the B&B once we move out, on the 15 April. Its not enough to live on.
A lot could happen in the next week. A place to go to, for instance. We are open. If we were to move, we know not where, but we could manage it financially. Perhaps we are to stay here.

Had to make a long post here...apologies!

SolarMother,

Did you ever finish your BA in psychology? If so, wouldn't you qualify for certain types of work? Maybe look into non-profits, shelters and places like that. I have a friend who works at a shelter for trouble teens and she just has a BA in sociology. It might be something to look into if you're looking for work, although you'd probably have to move back to a larger city somewhere to find that kind of work.

One week seems like a pretty short time to fall into a job, especially given the way the economy is right now! At least you and Mr. Anderson have each other and I know facing this situation has got to be a lot easier with two heads instead of just one. Hang in there!

Mr.A just got a return call on a job inquiry. Its looking promising. Will keep the forum posted.
I did finish my BA in Psychology, and I have a Master's in Liberal Arts, Communications. We could indeed be moving to a more populated area. I do need to use past skills: Social Work, counseling. No doors are opening here in our current area. Thanks for your ideas. Crisis/transitional counseling was my specialty---seems like the world needs that more than ever. I'm fine with mvoing wherever. Thank you for your support.

 

[SolarMother]

Solar Mother, there are a couple of phrases you are using repeatedly that are concerning. First is when you say the C's say we should "manipulate 3D." I doubt they ever said that. They did say that in order to graduate we had to learn the lessons of 3D. But the term 'manipulate' has a negative connotation that I think is revealing of your attitude.

Second, you keep referring to jobs as "slave jobs." whatever happened to the dignity of labor? :) seriously, though, don't you think that maybe that attitude is an impediment.

While the C's never said to manipulate 3D, Gurdjieff did say that 4th Way Work can only start at the level of an Obyvatel. Have you had a chance to read Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous? Many excerpts have been posted here so you could do a search on Tramps and Obyvatels and find the passage.

I know what you are going through is very rough. The problem all of us face, especially those like me in our fifties, is that we can get impatient when we think we've learned a lesson to have all the consequences fixed, but if we've spent 30 years digging a hole for ourselves is it realistic to expect to get out of the hole overnight?

I think that if you really look within to see why you were open to victimization by a psychopath, really learn that lesson, and then change your attitude towards jobs and such that things will open up.

But we have to pay all in advance. By the way, you may also want to reread the quote by Madame de Salzman, too about lying to ourselves and trying to get off cheaply.

Sorry for the sermon... We've all made mistakes based on our illusions and self-importance, so you're not alone.

i
I needed the sermon! I did read Oupensky's ISOTM. I don't remember the part you are talking about, so I will re-read that.
Wow...did I really dig a hole for myself for 30 years? I know what you are trying to say, and it hits hard. But that is why I am on this forum. Getting to my age, and not getting it yet is embarrassing, but I suppose that is also my self-importance talking.

I am seeing that I did not give the world a chance in order to see my potential. All I could see was the evil in the system. However, I was a Obvvatel for a long time in my first marriage--jobs... Then I got tired of it, and could see no potential...I dropped out after trying to do my own thing for 4 years. I can see that I became a victim of life at this point. I guess that would translate as prey for psychopaths, exploiters, petty tyrants.
Believe it or not, I am beginning to see the wisdom of completing my 3D lessons by going back to where I left off. I may even end up in the same geo location. And, you are right, it is not manipulating 3D (my mind--the lying thoughts--remembers it that way!) It's more like, 'mastering 3D reality' or knowing and loving it-- in whatever way I am supposed to do. That doesn't have to be a slave job with that attitude, so I see what you are saying. Sometimes when I am posting a reply, its then that I get an understanding.
Thanks for telling me I am not alone. I sure have felt that lately! It took me awhile to post about this, but it sure was worth it.

 

[Mr. Premise]

Solar Mother, there are a couple of phrases you are using repeatedly that are concerning. First is when you say the C's say we should "manipulate 3D." I doubt they ever said that. They did say that in order to graduate we had to learn the lessons of 3D. But the term 'manipulate' has a negative connotation that I think is revealing of your attitude.

Second, you keep referring to jobs as "slave jobs." whatever happened to the dignity of labor? :) seriously, though, don't you think that maybe that attitude is an impediment.

While the C's never said to manipulate 3D, Gurdjieff did say that 4th Way Work can only start at the level of an Obyvatel. Have you had a chance to read Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous? Many excerpts have been posted here so you could do a search on Tramps and Obyvatels and find the passage.

...

...
Believe it or not, I am beginning to see the wisdom of completing my 3D lessons by going back to where I left off. I may even end up in the same geo location. And, you are right, it is not manipulating 3D (my mind--the lying thoughts--remembers it that way!) It's more like, 'mastering 3D reality' or knowing and loving it-- in whatever way I am supposed to do. That doesn't have to be a slave job with that attitude, so I see what you are saying. Sometimes when I am posting a reply, its then that I get an understanding.
Thanks for telling me I am not alone. I sure have felt that lately! It took me awhile to post about this, but it sure was worth it.

Hi SolarMother,

I was re-reading Wave vol. 1 today and ran across the passage that I think you had in mind about 3D. Only Laura didn't use the word 'manipulate', but rather, 'maneuver in 3D.' There's a subtle difference (I know you see it now) between the two. 'Maneuver' in the sense Laura used it means to navigate, to move around effectively in, that kind of thing, or as Google dictionary says for the first meaning, "Perform or cause to perform a movement or series of moves requiring skill and care," whereas 'manipulate' means to alter, to change, to control for one's own ends. People who dabble in the occult and magic are trying to manipulate 3D (using alliances with 4D entities, often).

Here is the passage from p. 211 of the new edition of Wave 1, Riding the Wave:

Nevertheless, we have many other people who want to know what it is we have to learn in order to be ready to graduate. It seems that we don't have the be at a higher level in order to go there... we only have to have learned what is here as thoroughly as possible.
...
It seems rather that we are supposed to apply ourselves to learning the ways and means of this density as completely and as well as we can. What good is it for a man (or woman) to say, "Oh, I can't function in this world because I am really too spiritual for all that!" What is really going on is that the person has not a clue about this reality and how it works so that they can maneuver in the environment in an effective and useful way, to themselves or others. It's all fine and good to want to meditate and work to improve the soul life and all that, but if there is no practical result in the real world, can we be justified in thinking that the person has yet to learn some of the lessons of maneuvering at this level?

I know that lots of us here have had to come to grips with this, I know I have, especially with the idea that the state of our lives reflects the choices we made in the past based on our state of our being then. But the good news is that the choices we make now will be reflected in the state of our lives in the "future." Also, it's good news that we only have to learn 3D (karmic and simple lessons) lessons, that we don't have to learn 4D lessons in order to get there. That would be harder.

 

[SolarMother]

MrP

I know that lots of us here have had to come to grips with this, I know I have, especially with the idea that the state of our lives reflects the choices we made in the past based on our state of our being then. But the good news is that the choices we make now will be reflected in the state of our lives in the "future." Also, it's good news that we only have to learn 3D (karmic and simple lessons) lessons, that we don't have to learn 4D lessons in order to get there. That would be harder.

That is good news! Thank you for sending that. It helps in the 'coming to grips with the state of one's life' (depression) you mentioned. I really have been feeling quite stupid about it too.
Actually, a few days ago, as I was contemplating our situation, my brain (soul) remembered, Chapt 8, Book One, Riding the Wave! I grabbed the book and found the very quote you just sent me and just cried, and I remembered exactly when I first read that paragraph and the surrounding text--it was in March of '10. I remember the discomfort I felt when I read it--thinking, "could this actually mean what I think it does?" That was when the seed was planted, but I was still confused and the program I (we) have been running is so strong (get out of the evil system) that it took this situation of us getting hit on the head by 2 by 4's to start to wake up!! Now I do not feel discomfort, instead I feel a sense of purpose/Aim when I read that.
One thing I've noticed about what my life reflects, is a noticeable lack of comfort. And the fact that I have sabotaged my security more than once in my life.

'Maneuver' in the sense Laura used it means to navigate, to move around effectively in, that kind of thing, or as Google dictionary says for the first meaning, "Perform or cause to perform a movement or series of moves requiring skill and care," whereas 'manipulate' means to alter, to change, to control for one's own ends.

Mr.Premise, or anyone else, can you give me an example of a situation(s) in your life which showed the subtle differences between maneuvering or manipulating?
If I am seeing this correctly, the key is in what you mentioned about maneuvering, "Perform or cause to perform a movement or series of moves requiring skill and care." That need some contemplating. Sounds like a chess game.
It seems that it depends on one's attitude too. And trusting one's intuition to go a certain way in a situation that may be opposite what others are doing or saying.
Examples would help. I am pondering my past on this as well.

 

[SolarMother]

Doing things well and having a sense of joy. Perhaps this is loving and knowing the World as it is. Or maneuvering with skill.
This is my AIM.
Ok, fine in theory, but I have lost or quit jobs where I was not allowed to do that. What I mean is I could not become an automaton and do things in quantity vs quality, such as spending more time with patrons. I had a good attitude too.
Brings to mind the recent article in Sott.net, http://www.sott.net/articles/show/227123-Why-the-United-States-Is-Destroying-Its-Education-System
how good teachers can't make it, only the corporate drones type teachers, and the school principals that are in essence, CEO's.

Comments anyone? I sure could use a balanced perspective. Who in the forum has jobs that allow freedom? Can you describe your process?
Thank you.

 

[anart]

Ok, fine in theory, but I have lost or quit jobs where I was not allowed to do that. What I mean is I could not become an automaton and do things in quantity vs quality, such as spending more time with patrons. I had a good attitude too.

Sounds like your self-importance may have been a problem. A job is a job - it's usually not about 'doing what you want to do'.

Comments anyone? I sure could use a balanced perspective. Who in the forum has jobs that allow freedom? Can you describe your process?
Thank you.

I don't know of anyone who has a job that 'allows freedom'. A job is a job - it serves a very particular purpose and as a responsible adult in this world, one does what they have to do - especially when they don't want to do it - in order to take care of themselves and others. It builds Will. It sounds like you expect to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Laura]

SolarMother, have you "paid your dues" to the Universe so that you have earned the job you want that gives you freedom? I mean, really paid by giving up your lies to the self?

 

[Gertrudes]

Mr.Premise, or anyone else, can you give me an example of a situation(s) in your life which showed the subtle differences between maneuvering or manipulating?
If I am seeing this correctly, the key is in what you mentioned about maneuvering, "Perform or cause to perform a movement or series of moves requiring skill and care." That need some contemplating. Sounds like a chess game.
It seems that it depends on one's attitude too. And trusting one's intuition to go a certain way in a situation that may be opposite what others are doing or saying.
Examples would help. I am pondering my past on this as well.

SolarMother, I see maneuvering as working with something as opposed to by controlling it. Maneuvering has a very different type of quality then manipulating, in that maneuvering involves acknowledging the limitations of whatever you are working with, and working with exactly that. Manipulating on the other hand, doesn't care about any limitations neither the specific configuration, characteristics, whatever applies in the context, of that that with which you are working. It only cares about its goal, and using the means at its disposal to achieve it.

In maneuvering there is care and understanding, in that one tries to learn the "rules" of the game in order to best navigate it, in manipulation there is only the goal, no care for whatever is in your way.

In learning how to navigate 3D reality maneuvering would involve learning what 3D living is truly about and acting in accordance to what is gradually learned, accepting 3D's rules and limitations and using them for both our own, as well as the surrounding world's true growth and benefit. When manipulating 3D reality, you are closing your eyes to its rules and bending, contorting, forcing reality in what you wishfully think it should be.

This is how I see it, fwiw

 

[Mr.Anderson]

Ok, fine in theory, but I have lost or quit jobs where I was not allowed to do that. What I mean is I could not become an automaton and do things in quantity vs quality, such as spending more time with patrons. I had a good attitude too.

Sounds like your self-importance may have been a problem. A job is a job - it's usually not about 'doing what you want to do'.

Comments anyone? I sure could use a balanced perspective. Who in the forum has jobs that allow freedom? Can you describe your process?
Thank you.

I don't know of anyone who has a job that 'allows freedom'. A job is a job - it serves a very particular purpose and as a responsible adult in this world, one does what they have to do - especially when they don't want to do it - in order to take care of themselves and others. It builds Will. It sounds like you expect to have your cake and eat it too.

I was wanting to spend more quality time with patrons instead of rushing them in and out. I was told to produce more (get those numbers out there) at the expense of quality time serving the patron. I was wanting only to make a more human experience for the people I helped and the management did not like that, and were in fact, threatened by the fact that the patrons sought me out because they knew they could have someone who listened and helped them. I am hearing that this is self-importance because I quit (rebellion) because I could not do something that I felt was following my heart. Sounds like its a program to 'follow one's heart or integrity' instead of doing something that feels not right. So this was irresponsible and I did not develop enough Will by sticking it out. In thinking about it, I was not able to handle petty tyrants. Maybe something would have changed in the job had I stuck it out.

Laura

SolarMother, have you "paid your dues" to the Universe so that you have earned the job you want that gives you freedom? I mean, really paid by giving up your lies to the self?

Apparently not. I lied to myself in thinking I was 'better than' the others in charge.

 

[SolarMother]

My apologies, I did not switch the account-- the immediately above posting is from SolarMother, not MrAnderson.

 

[Mr.Anderson]

Yes, this is actually Mr.Anderson responding now.

I do know plenty of people who have jobs that they love and that affords them freedom. But yes, the job is about being a responsible adult.

After reading http://www.sott.net/articles/show/227123-Why-the-United-States-Is-Destroying-Its-Education-System. I can tell you I was one of those teachers that got weeded out back in about 1982. At which point I did something apparently very self-indulgent. I spent the next 7 years doing a job I loved, even though I knew it would hurt my long term future security. I traveled around the world as a professional athlete (racing road bicycles). What a great life for a single guy. So now I guess I am paying the price for that. It took a long time to get up to speed making decent money. Then, for 5 years I was making good money in a high stress, commission only sales job. After 5years, I felt I could no longer do it. I felt like I had gone beyond my limit. I quit before I had enough money to safely retire.

Guess what kind of job I am interviewing for? Life sucks, then you die. I wish for death by chocolate.

 

[StrangeCaptain]

The difference between maneuvering and manipulating is like the difference between good and evil in our terms here; based on your aim and the context of the situation. If this is an unfamiliar idea, you could do a search of the forum for "third force."

A concrete example... Doing research about the type of job you are trying to get (talking to people already in the field, asking managerial types what they look for in a resumé and a cover letter, and crafting an application dossier to fit these criteria) are maneuvers. Without the requisite amount of self-awareness, giving people what they want can be a sort of exhausting people-pleasing program. With some craftiness and self-knowledge, they can become maneuvers. They are the applications of knowledge necessary for surviving but at the same time maintaining some integrity with respect to our personal goals and aim.

One really challenging thing about The Work is giving up our attachment to our precious past experiences. We have to give up what we think we know. The Work will in and of itself reintegrate our past experiences into our knowledge base in the proper time but then based on their true worth with respect to our new goal.

I had begun a teaching career in the U.S. According to the students and my immediate supervisor, I was getting pretty good at it. I thought this made me a successful obvyatel. It is too long a story to tell, but essentially, I found that I was not all I thought I was. On moving to a foreign country, I found that I was a very badly crafted cake covered with pretty, sugary icing. There was a madness underneath it all, and I have found that having to start from scratch at a menial job has put me back through the developmental stage we probably should pass through as teenagers. Basic lessons: how to do the job that is asked of us and what it means to give oneself to that job without giving up oneself, how to deal with teeny-tiny petty tyrants (cuz if you can't do this you ain't ready for a living, breathing, drooling beast of a psychopath).

Lo and behold... I find myself teaching again. I am in a situation where I can utilise what I had learned as a teacher in the past but under the auspice of a different outlook on life.

I am not quite what I would call a good obvyatel yet, but I have walked far enough to where I can say with confidence that you have to pass through the fire, you have to pay as Laura mentions, to change your state from one of having a thousand different I's struggling for supremacy to one of greater order.

About your example of working with "patrons," I am not sure exactly what you mean, but I guess you are talking about customer service of some kind. Rather it is in the context of being a waiter or waitress at a restaurant or working complaints on a telephone, there is the matter of practicing external consideration. A customer may have needs, but if you spend too much time with one customer then you are taking your time away from serving other customers. It is that simple. If you can make every customer feel special in less than thirty seconds while maintaining strategic enclosure (i.e., the awareness that any one of them could be a raving, ranting a-hole) then you are on your way to providing good customer service. If you happen to have a customer service job where you are guiding customers through some kind of administrative process, then you definitely have a job where you can "help" people. I think many of us know the difference between a customer service employee who helps us through a maze and the kind who revels in the little slice of power he or she has over others people's lives. But again.. All of this depends on the situation, the context.

Good luck and best wishes on this journey...

 

[Laura]

Maneuvering would be like navigating around obstacles; manipulating would be like blowing the obstacles to bits.