Too Trusting and Scammed Because of It

[manitoban]

You may not want to put energy into "payback" since that's a waste and you'll really just be flailing at a shadow, but you could warn others...

Perhaps $780 is a reasonable price for the lesson -- they don't come for free, at least not for the person experiencing it first hand. Learning from this one could save even more in the future. I agree about warning others, though.

Hi Turgon, I'm also sorry to hear about this. I agree with everyone else, at this point all you can do is try to help others by warning people, and take it as a lesson in discernment. Even though its awful to go through, these kind of events are the ones that burn into our memory banks so we don't forget, and maybe as Megan says what you learn from this could be very valuable in the future.

 

[Gwenllian]

Turgon, FWIW, I had to learn this lesson (seeing through and dealing with con men) at least four times and I still have to be on the alert. I won't be going into details, since the details are very personal. I can only say that each time I went in I went in with my eyes closed, trusting the other completely, without doing any research whatsoever. Without asking any questions or without talking it through with a network. Or I asked the questions and ignored the red flags that were raised. It is incredible how this works, OSIT.

I am slowly beginning to learn how to act and think differently. The other day we put something up for sale on EBay. We immediately got an offer, but with strings attached. The person wouldn't pay me beforehand. He had been burnt, or so he said. I had to send the product to him first. When I offered alternatives he refused. This time I talked to my eldest son and he said he thought it was weird. So we decided not to through with it. At the same time I found your thread. Great timing BTW. :D So, thank you, Turgon, because after reading your message I felt warned; this person could be doing the same thing.
Had we sent it to him, we wouldn't have lost a lot, but we went about it as if it was something very valuable. It was a good lesson.

I am glad that you didn't lose more. And as Megan said: "Perhaps $780 is a reasonable price for the lesson -- they don't come for free, at least not for the person experiencing it first hand."

 

[Turgon]

Just a few hours ago you we're asking about taking revenge on these guys, so it might be helpful to reconsider the emotional impact this has had. I was just thinking how when we're wounded by a pathological that it's like they use a poisoned weapon. We most likely see the wound but the toxin that comes with it can go unnoticed and manifest in toxic thinking or behavior.

I read your reply this morning and thought about it while brushing my teeth and yeah, I was affected by this more than I thought and really had to question my motives for payback. I initially came to the conclusion that it's just giving them their due but didn't realize how much my emotions were driving the carriage. The qualities and ideals that we are striving for; trust, honesty and sharing are used against us in this sick ploy for power or in this instance, greed and it makes my stomach turn.

'Opening up to us' (well, lying through their teeth more like) is the way these pathologicals gain our trust.
And since your emotions were running the show, you did not see it coming.

It's a microcosm but I found it to be a direct experience of what is talked about so much on the forum as to how psychopath's in power work. The whole Obama's fake tears during the Sandy Hook shooting comes to mind and how so many people were duped into believing he actually cared.

You may not want to put energy into "payback" since that's a waste and you'll really just be flailing at a shadow, but you could warn others. I've seen people put up craiglist ads warning against just this thing after they've been burned.

So no payback but I did post an ad on craigslist indicating this specific scam and names and gave a warning of what to watch out for with a quick synopsis of how I was burned and the turn-around logic used by these scammers to play on emotions. I hope the right people find it before they too lose their money.

The person wouldn't pay me beforehand. He had been burnt, or so he said. I had to send the product to him first. When I offered alternatives he refused. This time I talked to my eldest son and he said he thought it was weird. So we decided not to through with it. At the same time I found your thread. Great timing BTW. :D So, thank you, Turgon, because after reading your message I felt warned; this person could be doing the same thing.

And it's so common! Just before I found out I got swindled a business owner near my workplace wanted to have a service done as soon as possible and I sympathised with him. He promised to come back the next day and pay for it once he got his bank account straightened out; someone stole money from his account (interesting coincidence). I went to his place of employment today and he promised to come by after he bought a cappuccino. That never happened. Exactly like Gurdjieff said; they are one person now and another afterwards.

I still remember him pleading with me and promising to pay me the next day just as long as I got it done on that day, which reminds me of the C's making a reference to when someone is begging or pleading for something they aren't asking anything of you, they are demanding something. So their words and what they say have no meaning or value to it - and we really to have to discern and not let our emotions of what we want to see in the other person dictate our behaviour. Even if in that moment it seems like we are being cruel or unkind to their plight or ... ploy

I phoned Linco and they were aware of 'Barnet', who of course didn't work there, but whom they have had several reports about and they have reported him to the police's IT crime division. I tried contacting them to get a status but was on indefinite hold, they are supposedly overworked and way behind on matters of greater gravity such as children's pornography and big time financial hacking crimes. I'll call them again Monday but I don't think there is much hope in justice being served by them.

After talking to the police yesterday, I got the same impression. They said I could go and print out all the correspondences, fill out a report, open up the Western Union account to them and they can send that information to Denmark, but the chances of anything being done is nil. The amount's are so low that they won't go after them. He said in the UK for example, you have to have been scammed out of $10,000 or more for the police to step in. So these people can go around and scam smaller amounts from hundreds, if not thousands of people and nothing will be done because the amounts are miniscule in law enforcement's eyes...

 

[mcb]

...It's incredible how in that moment, when totally overtaken by emotion and the wanting to find this ideal place and location, I was completely blind to the obvious signs of something fishy going on and gut instinct telling me to be wary...

An important lesson for the future...

This might be where you will discover your money's worth. Having had time to think about it and read the comments here, do you still think that you were "too trusting" or might there be another way of looking at it that doesn't share the responsibility with the scammers? I would say that the above view of things seems to say it well -- it is quite an insight. This scam requires two willing participants to pull it off, and the responsibility is all yours if you want it. It's easier to manage things that are your own doing.

I have been taken for more money than this, more than once. By people I knew. I hope you learn faster than I did.

 

[Alada]

...It's incredible how in that moment, when totally overtaken by emotion and the wanting to find this ideal place and location, I was completely blind to the obvious signs of something fishy going on and gut instinct telling me to be wary...

An important lesson for the future...

This might be where you will discover your money's worth. Having had time to think about it and read the comments here, do you still think that you were "too trusting" or might there be another way of looking at it that doesn't share the responsibility with the scammers? I would say that the above view of things seems to say it well -- it is quite an insight. This scam requires two willing participants to pull it off, and the responsibility is all yours if you want it. It's easier to manage things that are your own doing.

I agree with Megan, there’s more to be had there. It might be a useful exercise to recall and review other times where you have made serious mistakes, taken wrong turns, been taken in by others, see if there are similarities in the part/s of you that were running the show then. Find what in you is activated (and preyed upon), what weaknesses are exposed, so that you can learn to take these into account consciously in the future.

 

[happyliza]

Sorry to hear about the scam Turgon. I too was used and trusted the wrong person for alot of money in 2009 - again Western Union was used.
I think the most hurtful thing, the same from the pathological relationships I had, is the abuse and loss of TRUST. Ego apart it blows you apart and is the worst thing to get over. Yes we trust too easily though the motto now is IT HAS TO BE EARNED. Once abused it can never be regained as a certain bond is broken - even with people who possess empathy.

Another thing we have to beware of is when we fall on desperate times - this is when emotions are apt to take over and again our common sense can go out of the window too easily.

I agree that we don't forget once it has happened to us, yet scams and con merchants as well as psychopaths can use so many different ploys it is hard keeping up with the evil nowadays without such a forum. I don't think anyone can honestly say they haven't been scammed, conned or used at sometime in their life in 3D so you are not alone IMHO.

 

[QuantumLogic]

This happened to me last year when I was looking for a place in Michigan. There were 4 or 5 of them I found in just a couple days. The supposed homeowners were overseas, using reasons like missionary work, emergency response for the Red Cross, etc. All of the replies wanted you to send money and they would mail the keys. I didn't trust them as soon I read each of the replies. Perhaps it is because I made sure to read this page that is linked on the left side of all Craigslist homepages-

http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

Sorry, Turgon. I didn't think about it at the time, but in retrospect I should have posted that experience here to warn others. I mistakenly assumed everyone knew the rental ads on Craigslist with the homeowner being out of the country were all scams.

 

[Gwenllian]

This happened to me last year when I was looking for a place in Michigan. There were 4 or 5 of them I found in just a couple days. The supposed homeowners were overseas, using reasons like missionary work, emergency response for the Red Cross, etc. All of the replies wanted you to send money and they would mail the keys. I didn't trust them as soon I read each of the replies. Perhaps it is because I made sure to read this page that is linked on the left side of all Craigslist homepages-

http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

Sorry, Turgon. I didn't think about it at the time, but in retrospect I should have posted that experience here to warn others. I mistakenly assumed everyone knew the rental ads on Craigslist with the homeowner being out of the country were all scams.

EBay also explains how to do business in a safe and sound way. One of their pieces of advice is that the buyer should pay first, before the product will be sent. They also warn against Western Union and promote PayPal, because then you have - in some cases - some protection or guarantee that you will get your money back.
Plus you can check certain data like bank account and telephone number.
They do advise to report it to the police when people have been conned. Don't know, maybe they want to keep the police busy. ;)

In Dutch:

http://www.marktplaats.nl/i/help/veilig-en-succesvol/index.dot

Turgon, thanks again for this thread. I have reported this person and they will check whether he has a history. But I will write them again and explain how these people work, using your and my example (without any personal details), if you are all right with that. Because EBay could teach people some psychology lessons! :D

 

[Turgon]

...It's incredible how in that moment, when totally overtaken by emotion and the wanting to find this ideal place and location, I was completely blind to the obvious signs of something fishy going on and gut instinct telling me to be wary...

An important lesson for the future...

This might be where you will discover your money's worth. Having had time to think about it and read the comments here, do you still think that you were "too trusting" or might there be another way of looking at it that doesn't share the responsibility with the scammers? I would say that the above view of things seems to say it well -- it is quite an insight. This scam requires two willing participants to pull it off, and the responsibility is all yours if you want it. It's easier to manage things that are your own doing.

I agree with Megan, there’s more to be had there. It might be a useful exercise to recall and review other times where you have made serious mistakes, taken wrong turns, been taken in by others, see if there are similarities in the part/s of you that were running the show then. Find what in you is activated (and preyed upon), what weaknesses are exposed, so that you can learn to take these into account consciously in the future.

When I first read the statements above I immediately wanted to write a response thinking I knew the answer, but it seemed more intellectual and vague and not 'real' in the sense of visceral. Just like someone reads off a dictionary to give a response without really knowing the full implications of the word being read. So I staved off writing anything having not really understood fully my role or how I easily it is for me to let my emotions run the show and guide what I want other than understanding that is what happened in. Because initially I had a good 'feeling' about my correspondences with the scammer. He said everything I wanted to see written back to me.

So can I say I was too trusting? In a way, no. Trust requires something being earned and nothing was earned on the scammers part, so I'm feeding into a dynamic of 'trust' that's actually a warped sense of seeing in other people what I want to see. I wouldn't pull a scam like this therefore I assumed the same wouldn't happen to me and that maybe the Universe was smiling on me with a really great opportunity.

What's frustrating in this repeating pattern is that I know I was projecting, but in that moment it's very difficult to see. So I'm already anticipating and nervous that the next time something similar to this happens I'm going to fall into this program again. I haven't journaled about this yet so hopefully by doing so and digging a little more into it I can find some meaning behind it and more importantly how to spot this program before it happens and move past this phase of seeing the mechanicality of my behaviour without knowing how to alter the wiring.

Came across this quote earlier in Secret History which resonated with me regarding this situation. I was starting to self-calm a bit and look at this whole thing as 'something that just happens' only to realize some back up program had already long ago come into play to preventing me from really seeing what happened and my part in all of this.

However, when things do not go as we would like them to, when the world does not act or react according to our desires, our wishes, our predictions, our anticipation, we then receive an even greater shock. It is in such conditions that human beings become aware of the false assumptions that get us into situations that our programming can't handle. In short, it is during these moments of shock that all the different parts within are momentarily aligned while we seek to create a "new program" that will, in future, manage such situations. This means that, for that period of time we are seeking a solution, we face a choice: to "take a drug" fir the pain, or to fully experience it so that the body itself (and here we refer to the spiritual body) will produce its own "chemical" that will properly "heal" the wound. In other words, in those moments of such shock, we have the opportunity to break our habits, eliminate the assumptions we have acquired by rote, and stop the mechanical ways in which we do things. In other words, the key to fusing the self consists in using these shocks, these moments of self-awareness, as aids in becoming less mechanical. The shock can make us aware for a brief of where we are, how we got there, what our assumptions were, or in other words, of the program that we were running, if we seize it during the brief instant it exists. However, the moment during which we can override the autopilot is narrow because we have back-up systems in place that can kick-in, programs for dealing with shocks, (spiritual drugs, beliefs, etc), and these programs are every bit as mechanical as the others. So one must learn to discern the moment when the new transfer of the programs takes place and consciously step in before the new program.

 

[Pat_carroll]

Hi Turgon

Thank you for sharing your story. I normally wound't reply post in forum but believe it or not, I am going throught this "SCAM" as we speak and i pull out just in time thanks to you!


attached inline one of the email the GENTLEMAN's email, see if this recall anything.

**PLEASE NOTE to all GUMTREE user (australian ebay), this add is floating around in gumtree, so beware! *****


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You have a nice profile and i think you could be the new tenant.


Nice to meet you!


This beautiful apartment is located in a lovely area ( Therry Street, Melbourne VIC - REACH EVERYWHERE WITHIN SECONDS BY WALKING: very close to Swanston Street (Walking only few steps), RMIT University, Queen Victoria Market, Melbourne University, Melbourne Central, State of Library, restaurants & Grocery Stores in Elizabeth Street, ALDI supermarket, Rock Climbing on Swanston Street, Melbourne Bath, trams, gardens, city circle trams, QV shopping centre, etc.
Free access to facilities: Pool, Spa, Gymnasium, Sauna, Steam, Yoga Room, Wi-Fi Lounge Room, Tennis Court and Outdoor Terrace BBQ Area, Japanese landscaped terrace retreat ), excellent location! The place is full furnished, everything is new inside, so please understand me! Due to the high number of thefts from homes, I am very cautious and will not give you this information over email.


The property is not inhabited. I hope you understand the importance of safety when it comes to posting something of such value online.


Please do not get me wrong!


I would like to tell you a little bit about me and my family, I want to give you some insight into who I am.


I'm currently 43 years old and married. I'm very career focused and will be spending a lot of my time at the office. I work hard for my family. I'm a mature individual, very sincere, respectable and love friending new people. I'm a caring person who believes in taking good care of things!
My wife is speech language pathology, her name is Abbie and we have one daughter, Chloe, that is 3 years old.


I resided in this apartment with my family, I lived in it for over 4 years, loved every day of it, until 3 months ago when I got the opportunity to open a franchise ( a small business ) in Copenhagen, Denmark. We've tried to develop a family business, but unfortunately the things didn't work the way we've expected and now I am at one step from losing my market.
I had all my family moved here, I like it there but I think it's a better market here in Copenhagen, I want to start a new life, in 4/5 years I will decide if I will keep it, and get back in town or if I will sell it and move forever in Denmark, you never know!



This is the second time I tried to rent the apartment, I had a deal with somebody before who said he will rent it if I come back... So I got a plane ticket, and guess what!? When I arrived there, he didn't show up and after 2 days he gave me a call and said that he is sorry but he can't rent it anymore, because he has no money.
It was unfortunate that my past bitter experience of inviting people to come and view my flat without any form of confirmation of their financial ability and not keeping up to time as at when scheduled, has brought about great loss to me.
So don't get me wrong and don't take it personally, but now I don't want to buy another plane ticket to come and fall for it once more... maybe you won't show up. I'm sick of tire-kickers, people who are just looking around and not serious about renting, so please don't waste my time... No offence!


We can set up an appointment to see the apartment... You can have the keys in hands in less than 2 days. I found a way to complete the deal safe and fast for the two of us. This is a 100% safe method and you will have the chance to inspect it before final decision.


If you are interested in it mail me back and I am sure that we will find a good way to conduct this deal.


Respectfully,

Aaron




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cheers

 

[Jacques]

Hi Pat_carroll,

Welcome to our forum. :)

We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, how they found the cass material, and how much of the work here they have read.

You can have a look through that board to see how others have done it.

 

[Turgon]

Pat_Carroll, that's the exact same email word for word that I received!

The idea of posting about it on Craigslist really was like taking this whole situation and exposing the lie with truth instead of 'getting back at them' because my emotions were running hot. Pat_Carroll would be the 3rd person now that's brought up this scheme to let me know my posting's have steered them clear of this.

 

[aneron]

This guy who ripped you off is talking to me right now say the same thing!!!

 

[DreamGod]

I was scamed selling my car last year, they gave me all false ID´s and false information and even they made the full deposit to my bank, days after I found out that they made a check deposit with no founds. I didnt get a cent, i was supose to renew my car insurance but the guy told me not to, because he was going to do it himself, that was a low punch even to a thief.

If it wasnt for the support and words of my wife and my dad I dont know how i could endure that hate and bad feeling. Now I use the story to make aware other about this kind of things.

Not to trust when it is about money.