Transformers - We are the Autobots, They are the Decepticons.

[Cyre2067]

Just got back from seeing Transformers, and while it does have a flavor of 'USA Military HooRAH!' it actually did manage to make a strong impression on me.

Visually the movie was stunning - easily the best visual effects I've seen, ever. Not that it won't be topped in a month or two, but it really did seem like Giant Robots were transforming and fighting on screen. It's also easily the best script and direction I've seen in a film since The Matrix. I was interested the whole 2.5 hours, and there was tons of comedy thrown in. It managed to blend the cartoon aspect with the live-action setting in a way that made the story believable. They also mocked Bush just a little bit, and overall there was a sense of bashing authoritarianism throughout.

The concept of Aliens fighting on Earth and humans stuck in the middle is very applicable to the STO vs STS ideology presented herein. Autobots protect the humans, and if we did incarnate here and now so that we could wake up and help save earth that would effectively make us very similar to them. They're also able to blend in with the natural environment - by incarnating we've done just that. The Decepticons, or psychopaths, have the same advantage. In the film they're after an item of significant power, and the Autobots are trying to stop them from getting it.

Anyone else seen it yet?

 

[Azur]

The concept of Aliens fighting on Earth and humans stuck in the middle is very applicable to the STO vs STS ideology presented herein. Autobots protect the humans, and if we did incarnate here and now so that we could wake up and help save earth that would effectively make us very similar to them.

So the mission is to save Earth? I'd like to hear why.

Not only that, but according to what you think is cool by your words here, is that we are simply here to save Earth via technological means.

In context of the message of the movie, external, benevolent, technological means that are more capable that the "now incarnated human" is how to attain the mission goal, or "salvation".


Did I get your meaning right? Is this the (good) message you extracted here?

Has the material you've encountered so far, the stuff that enables you to classify things as STO or STS, been nothing more than a sensate piece in your palette, on equal footing with every piece of drivel that comes your way?


If you've managed to build a scale in yourself, do you know how it works/biases?

(Yes, I'm poking you in the eye here, but my questions stand, and I would appreciate the discourse, if you feel up to it. I'm stuck, and trying to re-reverse the vector.)

 

[TerToen]

Gosh!
Poking in the eye, you say?
In my view you are sticking your whole fist in!
Much too aggressive for my taste...

By the way, I am looking forward to watching the film.

 

[Keit]

Ahm, people, what's up with you lately? I find it strange that for some reason forum members started to poke other members eyes, and this is second time within 2 last days.
Maybe it would be best for all of us to try and observe those "poking" programs before posting, eh?

 

[Ryan]

The concept of Aliens fighting on Earth and humans stuck in the middle is very applicable to the STO vs STS ideology presented herein. Autobots protect the humans, and if we did incarnate here and now so that we could wake up and help save earth that would effectively make us very similar to them.

So the mission is to save Earth? I'd like to hear why.

Not only that, but according to what you think is cool by your words here, is that we are simply here to save Earth via technological means.

In context of the message of the movie, external, benevolent, technological means that are more capable that the "now incarnated human" is how to attain the mission goal, or "salvation".

Did I get your meaning right? Is this the (good) message you extracted here?

Has the material you've encountered so far, the stuff that enables you to classify things as STO or STS, been nothing more than a sensate piece in your palette, on equal footing with every piece of drivel that comes your way?

Azur, you are being quite inflammatory here. Cyre just posted his thoughts on a movie. Have you even seen the movie? Regardless, you are putting words in his mouth that he did not say. In fact, your post reads like you are spoiling for a fight, or trying to prove to Cyre that you can teach him something.

If you've managed to build a scale in yourself, do you know how it works/biases?

I might ask you the same question. You got something on your chest Azur? Why not just tell us what it is? (Preferably in a new thread so discussion will be on-topic ;) ).

 

[Cyre2067]

So the mission is to save Earth? I'd like to hear why.

Did you mean in the movie or IRL? In the movie it's to save Earth from the Decepticons. I don't wanna spoil it and giveaway the details b/c the movie rocked. IRL - Yes, that's what i feel i'm here for, but in order to DO i must first BE, and in order to BE i have to Wake Up... still working on that, but i saw the parallels in the film. There's also the aspect of 'aliens saving humanity' which was there, but it was the subtler tone(edit: transformers become native automobiles, we become human) that i identified with.

Not only that, but according to what you think is cool by your words here, is that we are simply here to save Earth via technological means.

Erm, never said that, and the rest of your bit seems to be a tangent offa that idea, so i think ya got my meaning wrong.

Has the material you've encountered so far, the stuff that enables you to classify things as STO or STS, been nothing more than a sensate piece in your palette, on equal footing with every piece of drivel that comes your way?

For the record I'm still tuning my reading instrument, so I can't really know anything without feedback from a like-minded group, and all I know is that I'm working on fusing my magnetic center and that i have a few confederated I's that are doing the job, osit.

 

[atreides]

Uhm, yeah...

So, we're gonna be putting the new cover sheets on all outgoing TPS reports...did you get that memo?

As for the transformers, Scotty and I are anticipating a bit of fun in that regard. Transformers, they're more than meets the eye. I just can't get that Clerks 2 scene out of my head.

To comment on some of Cyre's ideas:

Yeah, the Decepticons are definitely a simile for sts, also the backstory on the Decepticons/Transformers is an interesting study. There's also some interesting stuff when they start talking about sparks etc.

Naturally it's a classic good versus bad, which is very formula based, bad guys are bad, and good guys are good and they act in predictable ways. It's sorta the old good vs. bad archetype, which we never get tired of, wonder why, hmm, cause it just rings so true.

As for Azur:

Dude, wth? The transformers are all good, how are you gonna find fault in the transformers? So what if there is technology, what, when did we get all "Technology bad, krunk no like fire."

I am suddenly reminded of that Quiznos commercial where the caveman discovers pants, and one guy says like "Oh my god, you've been cursed with the legs of a goat!" and he replies "Nay, these are pants!" and then the guy says "I'd like to wear pants..." and then some other guy sneaks up and says "I fear change, and will therefore keep my bushes" and then he scurries off.

Yeah...

Well, seems i've done enough damage round this popsicle stand...

 

[Ryan]

Ok, just to get a bit "conspiratorial" here for a second (*gasp* no!?!), I noticed something interesting in the Transformers preview:

The above scene is a quick flash of the radio in "Bumblebee" (one of the transformers) being activated. The dial flips from just after 9, to just after 11. Now, what I also found curious is the little icon that appeared just under the numbers with the word "CODEBLACK" for the duration of that brief scene. I didn't see that icon anywhere else in the preview. Wonder what that is? It looks edited on over the movie footage, so my first thought was some kind of copyright protection system or "trademark" or suchlike. But a Google search yielded no results.

Anyway, you can watch the Transformer's trailer here and check it out yourself (you'll need to watch the latest trailer, not the teaser or announcement trailers).

(Also posted this in the ID4 + 911 thread, cos it seemed sorta similar).

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Ryan,

Yeah the "CODEBLACK" symbol and word are outside of the movie, they move with the camera and not what is being filmed. I looked the word up on google images and got this:

_http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=7649

Which points you to:
_http://www.sectorseven.org/

You gotta disable popups and type codeblack as the code to gain entry.

It seems to be a promotional "easter egg" for the movie, which I admit is pretty cool in presentation. But I still don't know any reason it says 9 11 on the radio, I didn't see anybody explain that as part of the easter egg etc. So that's interesting.
---

Having said that, I plan to watch the movie soon. As for "saving the planet" question, I do think it is not how conscious STO works in the sense of literally blocking STS from doing STS things, and literally attacking them and protecting worlds from STS domination. But at the same I don't see the autobots as STS either, it sounds more like confused STO just like all the typical "superheroes" and etc. They have a good (metal) heart, they just don't want innocents to be hurt, they don't want those other guys to do to our planet what they did to theirs. Maybe, like most people on our own planet, they just don't understand the concept of lessons, they don't know about free will, they just haven't thought it through. It seems like they just acted on their empathy for us, like you or I might act to protect someone from touching a hot stove or from getting hit by an incoming car by jerking them out of the way if you could. I dunno if it's that person's destiny to die at that moment, but seriously, if destiny decided to do it in front of me, was it so stupid that it assumed, knowing me, that I'd just stand by and let it happen? Come on, the universe isn't that stupid. If somebody needs to die, they WILL die. But if the universe is doing it in front of your face giving you ample opportunity to interfere, clearly it's giving you the choice here. It could easily have hit the guy with the car when nobody is around but it didn't!

Well I know about free will. I know about lessons. And generally I'm not going to interfere with people's lives. But in a situation like that, there's a good chance I will. If the universe has a problem with it, let it run the guy over when I'm not around then. Clearly, it doesn't have a problem with it then, if it chose to run him over in front of me, osit. Heck, his lesson might be to see that somebody cares about his life, and to survive, and maybe if he was selfish, it might get him to think why I just did that for him, and might make him realize that he too cares about people, and he might change his life! I dunno. Or maybe he just needed a good shock, you know to see a car almost hit you, to have his heart almost jump out of his chest. That alone might change his life and make him learn all sorts of stuff. Coming close to death is often a life-changing experience after all, makes you see your own fragility and how really easy it is for your life, and all that you own, to just be gone in a second. If you've been materialistically obsessed, that might make you reconsider.

 

[Cyre2067]

Wow, missed that - thanks Ryan.

 

[Azur]

So the mission is to save Earth? I'd like to hear why.

Did you mean in the movie or IRL? In the movie it's to save Earth from the Decepticons. I don't wanna spoil it and giveaway the details b/c the movie rocked. IRL - Yes, that's what i feel i'm here for, but in order to DO i must first BE, and in order to BE i have to Wake Up... still working on that, but i saw the parallels in the film. There's also the aspect of 'aliens saving humanity' which was there, but it was the subtler tone(edit: transformers become native automobiles, we become human) that i identified with.

Not only that, but according to what you think is cool by your words here, is that we are simply here to save Earth via technological means.

Erm, never said that, and the rest of your bit seems to be a tangent offa that idea, so i think ya got my meaning wrong.

Has the material you've encountered so far, the stuff that enables you to classify things as STO or STS, been nothing more than a sensate piece in your palette, on equal footing with every piece of drivel that comes your way?

For the record I'm still tuning my reading instrument, so I can't really know anything without feedback from a like-minded group, and all I know is that I'm working on fusing my magnetic center and that i have a few confederated I's that are doing the job, osit.

Cyre,

On further thought, as you point out (as did Ryan), I did read into your words something you weren't saying. It actually makes a big difference to how the rest of your post can be taken.

I was off, evidently.

I'll be taking my little boy to see the film. Maybe on the way there I'll find some way to soften my hardened heart and try to enjoy by proxy the wonder he'll experience.

Maybe I might even find out where mine went.

You know, just thinking about how to respond here (and what caused me to write in the first place), has gotten me onto something. It might even be the way out of this Dead Zone I seem to be in for the last three months. (I won't say more here on that, maybe in another thread as Ryan suggested, which is a good idea).

Thanks for responding in good faith, Cyre. It helped more than you know.

 

[Azur]

Azur, you are being quite inflammatory here. Cyre just posted his thoughts on a movie. Have you even seen the movie? Regardless, you are putting words in his mouth that he did not say. In fact, your post reads like you are spoiling for a fight, or trying to prove to Cyre that you can teach him something.

Yes, I realized after reading his post again and again where I was projecting. Glad you both pointed it out, I now know better where it came from. As for spoiling for a fight, you might be right there, but it depended heavily on what I thought I was seeing. It is no longer the case, it seems. And no, I would never presume to prove to anyone that I can teach them something. That would require the firm planted idea in one's mind that they know everything or enough about another, or at least judge that they know better. Not me and not in this subject sphere, anyway. (In other areas, it is evident when you do know something the other doesn't, such as "don't stick a paperclip into the power outlet").

If you've managed to build a scale in yourself, do you know how it works/biases?

I might ask you the same question. You got something on your chest Azur? Why not just tell us what it is? (Preferably in a new thread so discussion will be on-topic ;) ).

I might have something on my chest, aside from the general state of things, and the frustration inherent of the capacity to change it. I'm gonna think on it some more (I've gotten a wee glimpse, as I mentioned to Cyre) and if the Dead Zone/blank-wall-of-nothingness comes up to dissipate it, I will write about it in another thread.


Cheers.

 

[Azur]

Uhm, yeah...

So, we're gonna be putting the new cover sheets on all outgoing TPS reports...did you get that memo?

I GOT the memo! And that damn printer had it coming!

As for Azur:

Dude, wth? The transformers are all good, how are you gonna find fault in the transformers? So what if there is technology, what, when did we get all "Technology bad, krunk no like fire."

I am suddenly reminded of that Quiznos commercial where the caveman discovers pants, and one guy says like "Oh my god, you've been cursed with the legs of a goat!" and he replies "Nay, these are pants!" and then the guy says "I'd like to wear pants..." and then some other guy sneaks up and says "I fear change, and will therefore keep my bushes" and then he scurries off.

Yeah...

Well, seems i've done enough damage round this popsicle stand...

Naw, I have no probs with the transformers. It is what it is. And no, I'm not an anti-tech OR anti-change type, as you say. (And in fact there's much that can be said about new tech NOT bringing in "change"). Granted most technology is pretty much useless or for useless aims, and that would be a very short argument. But tech has given us some amazingly beneficial things, such as MRIs, etc. (My Dad as little as a year ago was paralyzed from the waist down, suddenly. An MRI showed exactly what the cause was, leading to a four hour operation and some rehab, he's now completely functional. 20-30 years ago, and it have been all over: he'd be in a wheel chair for the rest of his life).

I gotta lighten up. I haven't had any fun in YEARS. I have to find that again, I'm outta whack.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Well, I saw the transformers last nite and if you want a little fun Azur, that movie is 2 and a half hours of non-stop action and some well-placed humor. Not one boring moment, keeps your attention to the screen from the very beginning to the last second, as something new is always happening.

Having seen it, I realized that it's not so much that the autobots (the good guys) fly around protecting various races from harm, it's just that they just don't want us, humans, to pay for their own mistake. This big important all-spark thing ended up on our world because of a war on their world, and they are partially responsible for this so they just want to take responsibility and try to undo/fix what they've caused, which also meant confronting the decepticons in the process. There was talk about the human race deserving to choose their destiny, and of self-sacrifice. Although you simply cannot escape the fight, the fact that autobots engaged in mortal combat with decepticons, but in the end, it is still a movie, and it's gotta do what it's gotta do. Somehow they remind me of ninja turtles. Basically, a bunch of overgrown and horribly mutated teenagers, with a mentality/compulsiveness of a child, but a good heart. Although if you consider that the origin of the movie is a cartoon, and the need to appeal to the American audience and old-time transformers fans, then it's not so surprising. But it was an awesome movie!

 

[Cyre2067]

Thanks for responding in good faith, Cyre. It helped more than you know.

Cool beans. I look forward to your thread about your "Dead Zone". I find these tend to come and go, except i look @ it more like a wave function with peaks and troughs and each time I succeed in wrangling in some unruley I's the peak gets a bit higher and the trough doesn't last as long. I can even 'see' where I'm 'choosing my destiny' throughout the day and where I'm just running programs. This has mostly been a recent phenomenon.

I agree Scio, Transformers was a lot like ninja turtles, the themes and ideology are very similar. You also explained their motivations a lot better then I did.