Trying to help or just being arrogant

[eonstg]

This is one of the most painful realization to come to as of date. The fact that I have to stop thinking I can help my family to wake up. My feeling is it is my obligation to help. This is my family right? So why am I feeling so guilty knowing that I have to move on and focus on my lessons? The thought that I have is that if I stick around then I can help everyone. This thought now has me in The thought to help them is not leveled in truth in my opinion. How can I help anyone when I am not myself awaken? a state of limbo. My nature is to help anyone that comes my way only because what else is their? The learning to me is in the helping. Still I feel I am about to crack if I don't act on what it is that a know deep down. There is great exhaustion setting in trying to figure out just how to help. This may well be arrogant because everyone has to learn their lessons on their own right? If my interacting with them is naturally a part of that lesson then I should continue to learn and hopefully they will also. There is great stress as I feel I am racing against time and time might just be running out. The truth is I don't know anything. So then who am I to think that I can help? Isn't focusing on my lessons just as important as trying to help anyone? Is this being selfish? If it wasn't for the break up of my relationship I would not be thinking of this so heavily. Letting go of someone or something is hard but knowing I have to gave me strength to weather it. Now I am realizing I have to let go of my family. Loving them enough to understand that maybe once I make any changes within myself that may affect them as well. I am starting to truly feel alone. Still this loneliness may have a lesson in there that needs to be learned. I don't know what alone truly mean or why people are so afraid of it but I guess this must be discovered. Interacting with people is still a part of understanding this in my humble opinion. I don't think isolation is truly being alone it is just separating yourself physically from others. So this loneliness may well be living in the now and truly taking responsibility for my lessons. Not having anyone to blame or rely on could give a sense of what is called loneliness. So this is where letting go of my family comes in. It will be sad but on the other side of sad isn't it balanced with happiness?


Note in all of this I am utilizing the pipe breathing and it is helpful. Still I go off in old programming sometimes and forget about this useful tool.

Thank you for reading.

 

[obyvatel]

Hi eonstg,
The topic of helping one's family is a difficult one and if it is of any consolation, you are one among many others here who struggle with similar issues. The first priority is to increase one's own knowledge and being so that one can eventually come to a position to help others who ask. It is not an easy task to figure out what is true asking. The following threads may be helpful
How to Carry On? How to Wake Others?
Who's asking? (how to be an STO candidate)

 

[Ellipse]

Hi eonstg,

There is great exhaustion setting in trying to figure out just how to help.

I think this is the point. I think we can help but we have to be at the right level. This is very difficult as each person have his own level. We need to build stairs for the person and the first step can be very small with very little things familiar to the person. We have to listen the person and be attentive if some interrogations point out. Perhaps, a day, the person will take the next step. A lot of patience and delicacy is need.

 

[CrimsonEagle]

Something to take into consideration, something that I have noticed in my own family at least is this.

Many times they do not really want help, they are not really asking for help. What they want is for someone to feel sorry for them, or they want me to "do" all while they do nothing to help themselves.

This was hard for me to recognize because I could not see what was really happening. Basically they were sucking the life out of me and there was no benefit in the real sense of the word. They may in their conscious mind think they want to change but without the will behind it, nothing ever does.

I do not feel as if I am loosing my family per say. I still love them very deeply. I just realize that I can not help them. At least not at this point in time.

If I were to see even one of them show a strengthening of will and an honest effort, a few steps on their own, understanding within themselves that (whatever the change is), is something that they need to do for themselves, then I would happily and to the best of my ability come to their assistance.

Change has to come from within and it has to be an honest desire and a willingness to do whatever needs to be done in order to institute this change.

Unfortunately, what I see within my own family is none of this. Instead I see self pity with not even an iota of effort to remedy the situation.

It does make me a little bit sad to see this and even a bit of frustration because I know that there is nothing that I can do, but I also realize that this is the way that it has to be. It is not up to me to "save" them. I do however believe that if they make and honest attempt to "save" themselves, I will be there for support, to cheer them on, and to hopefully aid in the strengthening of their will.

I can not force change. I would be better of smashing my head against a wall repeatedly because I would get about the same results.

Just some food for thought. Others may see things in a different light.

Dave.

 

[manitoban]

This is one of the most painful realization to come to as of date. The fact that I have to stop thinking I can help my family to wake up. My feeling is it is my obligation to help. This is my family right? So why am I feeling so guilty knowing that I have to move on and focus on my lessons? The thought that I have is that if I stick around then I can help everyone. This thought now has me in The thought to help them is not leveled in truth in my opinion. How can I help anyone when I am not myself awaken? a state of limbo. My nature is to help anyone that comes my way only because what else is their? The learning to me is in the helping. Still I feel I am about to crack if I don't act on what it is that a know deep down.

Hi eonstg,

Your dilemma is one that, as obvytal has said, is very common to readers of this forum. The vast majority of us have families and friends who are completely, and often happily asleep. It takes some time to realise that they are in fact making a choice with their own free will to be that way.

We can't know what path they are on, or what the nature of their lessons are, and even though it may seem that they should be awakened by us, it may well be that they are on a different part of the learning cycle and are not ready or even able to be "awakened".

Being externally considerate by not "acting" on what you want to do (ie give them information they may not be asking for) is part of the discipline of the Work. That's not to say that you cannot give information IF you are asked, but it's important to take into account the level of understanding of the asker.

 

[Dorothy Minder]

Several good responses already. I'll just add a couple of thoughts.

As you describe, Eonstg, "wanting to help" can be a form of arrogance because it often presumes that you know how to "fix" people or issues. We can, of course, help others without being arrogant, but not when ego or wishful thinking direct our "help." Wanting to be someones salvation is an obvious appeal to ego. Hoping that the time and energy we invest in happy sleepers will make them want to awake is wishful thinking.

As Ellipse and Manitoban said, understanding someones level and desire for information, and consciously using that knowledge to structure your interaction with them, is the way to ensure that what you say fits the situation. This kind of understanding keeps the conversation grounded in reality, and prevents rants, wishful thinking, or interference with another's free will. Crimson Eagle describes several realizations that promote and arise from this understanding.

I know how painful it can be to learn that the people we love -- maybe even the very people who showed us how to love another person unconditionally -- remain unconcerned about truths we seek so desperately. But these are necessary realizations if we are to continue on the path of Truth.

Personally, separating from my wife was the hardest step for me to take in my path so far. But the problem for me was this: if anyone could make me accept myself and the world as they are, she could. I refuse to accept my still fragmented self, and I refuse to accept the illusions, violence and exploitation of this world. Maybe the pain of separation will push her to reevaluate some things, but maybe not. I'm not holding out hope. I do expect, the next time I see her, to have a better sense of how to manage our relationship (if it is to continue) in the cause of Truth.

Dorothy

 

[eonstg]

Thanks everyone that replied so far your insights were helpful.

Obyvatel - I will take a look at those links.

Dorothy - I understand what you went through with your relationship. I was told I was into voodoo and crazy stuff and is being kept from seeing my two children. The appeal to the ego to be a "savior" is something I have to check. I think that is a program I run a lot at my own expense.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[melatonin]

Hi eonstg,

I have someone in my life who ive shared alot of my thoughts with. Bought them loads of books, and hes still the 'same way'. Im not sure if i want a reaction from them or what i expect. Theres no proof to anything i say.
I now realise that i wanted them to 'become aware' so it would change how they were with me. Like by becoming aware it would make them view the world differently, and maybe value me more as a person.
I can see that for me it was selfish reasons. :(

Some people are just as corrupt as those running the world aswell. Id rather share a cup of tea with a multi dimensional reptile than try and awaken alot of folk.
(And like Dorothy said its egotistic to think we know what someone wants/needs anyway - i also have this need to save/help others. Its based on events from my past when i WASNT saved!)
Another thing is that my view on the world/reality is changing so much that i couldnt really tell anyone what i felt was really happening on this rock, or why we were here, especially when by the next week another piece has dropped into my jigsaw that has change my personal perspective yet again.

I dont think your being arrogant, because it sounds like your doing it from a place because you care (from your heart), rather than you want to be listened to/or in control. But i also think that possibly you wont feel the need to distance yourself from your family in the future, when you have worked through what you need to in your own space. Maybe the feeling like other people must understand (or see) is because we are pearing over a cliff and looking at something so immense that its too scarey to take that jump on our own. But maybe we can only do it that way.

Edited - To add the line in brackets.
All the best, Melatonin.

 

[Chu]

Hi eonstg,

I was just reading this session, and thought that this may be relevant here and may help you with the doubts you are having at present:

(J) Yes, I have a question. Is there anything that I can do to help Terry?

A: Best to let him lead on this one.

Q: (T) Okay, let me ask one more question, I know everybody's getting tired. With these goals that I gave up was that because I was being an -bad person- or because I really was doing something good for somebody else when I was giving them up? I'm sorry to use the term, but...

A: Mostly the former with the qualifier that it was mostly fear of loss.

Q: (T) I'm trying to understand what they're saying and put it into perspectives with my life. (L) I don't know, I'm not a mind reader. (T) Was I being STS or STO at the time when I was giving these things up, it sounds like I was being STS. So I was hurting myself, just doing that.

A: Wanting to help others can often be STS if the reason, at deep levels is fear.

Q: (T) Fear of what?

A: Loss.

Q: (T) Hmm, I'll have to ponder on this awhile. (L) Loss of what? (T) That's a good question, loss of what?

A: Respect, love, others opinions, and a big one self image.

Q: I think what they're saying is you gave up things that you wanted to do to do other things that you thought were things that you ought to be doing to help other people, and the reason you did it that way was because you thought that if you didn't sacrifice yourself and your own wants and needs and these things that you wanted to follow and pursue, that other people would have a lesser opinion of you, or they wouldn't love you or they wouldn't like you, or they would think that you were just being selfish and mean, or something like that...(J) Because you would lose your own self image. (L)...and the self image was rescuer, savior, fixer, helper. (T) Well that kind of sums it up doesn't it? (L) Hey, we've all been there. Fear of loss. The big one, loss of your self image. (T) That's funny because I never really had a self image. (L) Well it depends upon what you define as self image. (J) Or maybe a different self image as opposed to a bad self image. (T) That could be too. Okay I can work with that, that's something to work with.

So, you may want to really look at your motivation for helping when you think things like:

My feeling is it is my obligation to help. This is my family right?

Sometimes we help more when not trying to help directly, but rather through working on our own issues, fears and programs. Our behaviour can have an indirect effect on others. And this has the advantage of allowing us to grow and fight for our destiny all the while we let others be and make their lives easier.

Now I am realizing I have to let go of my family. Loving them enough to understand that maybe once I make any changes within myself that may affect them as well. I am starting to truly feel alone.

This is a bit of black and white thinking, IMO, unless I misunderstood you. You don't always need to break the contact with some people, but you can learn to interact with them without expecting anything in return, without trying to change them, and thus, preserving energy to share with those that do want help or are more co-linear with you. It can make us feel lonely to realize that it's impossible to share what matters the most to us with those who have always supposed to be the closest to us. But in reality, we are never alone. You do have this network!

 

[mada85]

Isn't focusing on my lessons just as important as trying to help anyone? Is this being selfish?

In relation to your question here, eonstg, I think that it is important to remember that we live on an STS planet, that we are STS. That means of course that we are innately self-serving, self-important and selfish. It's in our DNA. Pretty much everything we do is self-serving; just about all creative acts are, too. However learning is a positive use of the STS impulse, for without knowledge how can we possibly help others? Without knowledge it would just be the blind leading the blind – a heavy burden for one's conscience!

Another aspect of this is that we can often consider ourselves as selfish when we look after ourselves properly – correct supplements, food, sleep and so on – but without that 'selfish' degree of self-attention, we would have nothing to give to anyone else. Without it we might end up as a physical wreck, diseased or with very low energy and therefore incapable of work or helping others.

Not forgetting that focusing on our own lessons is how we learn, which is very important, because we cannot ignore or shortcut our learning path, and if we do, the universe will try in more and more dramatic ways to get our attention. Paying attention to our lessons in turn helps us to become more insightful and capable, and able to help others. So these things can appear to be selfish, but if one is learning to be an STO candidate then I think that mitigates the selfishness, so to speak.

I think it's really important to keep on with our self-work so that we are as prepared as we can be when help is asked of us.

 

[celtic]

I think the best thing for you to do right know is to focus on your own inner growth. If those of your family do not ask or do not wish to know or are not interested then they should be left alone.

I don't think isolation is truly being alone it is just separating yourself physically from others. So this loneliness may well be living in the now and truly taking responsibility for my lessons.

The point is not to isolate one self from others but to respect thier level of progress as far as thier belief system goes. I truly understand that loneness you feel because others may not understand or accept your way of seeing things and they will isolate themselves from you. But If they don't truly ask then they are trully not ready for this type of information because in all honesty they are happily asleep.

 

[Ageeva]

I think the best thing for you to do right know is to focus on your own inner growth. If those of your family do not ask or do not wish to know or are not interested then they should be left alone.

I don't think isolation is truly being alone it is just separating yourself physically from others. So this loneliness may well be living in the now and truly taking responsibility for my lessons.

The point is not to isolate one self from others but to respect thier level of progress as far as thier belief system goes. I truly understand that loneness you feel because others may not understand or accept your way of seeing things and they will isolate themselves from you. But If they don't truly ask then they are trully not ready for this type of information because in all honesty they are happily asleep.

This is something i've struggled with since my awareness started growing. I wanted to tell everyone I knew and cared about what I thought they should know. And of course I became very frustrated, often angry that they couldn't even begin to see what I saw. It gradually dawned on me that I was imposing on their free will, they never asked, but my ego was in dire need of an approving nod and a clap on the back. Even now I sometimes let my frustration get the better of me and let fly with 'the bigger picture', of course the response is the same, if this isn't your time to wake up then you won't. I find myself getting annoyed with myself saying, for pete's sake, let it go, it's my growth I need to work on. I have noticed that my outbursts tend to happen when I'm off balance, not keeping strictly to regular EE, exercise or detoxing, it's as if the 'wanting approval' predator lets loose. And this predator is very judgmental and quite arrogant when he doesn't get the desired response. It's something that I have to keep working on.

 

[celtic]

This is something i've struggled with since my awareness started growing. I wanted to tell everyone I knew and cared about what I thought they should know. And of course I became very frustrated, often angry that they couldn't even begin to see what I saw. It gradually dawned on me that I was imposing on their free will, they never asked, but my ego was in dire need of an approving nod and a clap on the back. Even now I sometimes let my frustration get the better of me and let fly with 'the bigger picture', of course the response is the same, if this isn't your time to wake up then you won't. I find myself getting annoyed with myself saying, for pete's sake, let it go, it's my growth I need to work on. I have noticed that my outbursts tend to happen when I'm off balance, not keeping strictly to regular EE, exercise or detoxing, it's as if the 'wanting approval' predator lets loose. And this predator is very judgmental and quite arrogant when he doesn't get the desired response. It's something that I have to keep working on.

Exactly I started off the same way wanting to tell everyone my discovery but to my suprise most did not want to hear it. And like you said Ageeva I wanted so bad for someone to say to me you are right we should of thought of this a long time ago. I wanted people to validate what I had discover but I later learned that it was nothing but my ego. So I came to learn that I should first work on me and my problems and help others if asked afterwards.

 

[Clarekav]

Like many on the forum I myself fell into the thinking of trying to 'awaken' my family and had to learn this lession the hard way.
After pointless fights that probably drained energy to 4D I had to let go and see it was hurting them as well as myself. It has been better since then but I need
to watch myself in case it happens again.

Now I am realizing I have to let go of my family. Loving them enough to understand that maybe once I make any changes within myself that may affect them as well. I am starting to truly feel alone. Still this loneliness may have a lesson in there that needs to be learned. I don't know what alone truly mean or why people are so afraid of it but I guess this must be discovered. Interacting with people is still a part of understanding this in my humble opinion. I don't think isolation is truly being alone it is just separating yourself physically from others. So this loneliness may well be living in the now and truly taking responsibility for my lessons. Not having anyone to blame or rely on could give a sense of what is called loneliness. So this is where letting go of my family comes in. It will be sad but on the other side of sad isn't it balanced with happiness?

I read a book called 'Awareness' by Anthony De Mello and while there are somethings he says I'm not sure about I think he makes an interesting point on why people don't want to be alone.
Saying it is due to people being dependent on others for their own happiness. Which tends to lead to demands that others contribute to making us happy.
Going on to cause fear of loss, fear of alienation, fear of rejection, mutual control.

It seems so many of us still feel lonely even with people. It leaves me to think loneliness doesn't entirely come from being without people but from being unhappy within ourselves.

 

[CrimsonEagle]

I find myself getting annoyed with myself saying, for pete's sake, let it go, it's my growth I need to work on.

This caught my attention and I would like to make a comment in order to make sure I understand correctly.

As I understand it, this IS our main goal which is to work on ourselves and to learn as much as possible, not only for ourselves, but to also strengthen ourselves so that at some point in time, when someone comes along who earnestly does want to make change, we can be of some assistance.

I almost feel as if it is a strengthening of our true PRESENCE minus a lot of baggage dependent upon where we are in regards to the WORK.

Also there is the issues of steps taken in order to allow others to follow behind if they recognize and choose.

In other words, the many people who came before me on this site have done a ton of Work, not in a selfish way but in a way that they gave a CHANCE for others too see what they have done. It is then up to the "others" to make a choice. Do I accept this process or do I ignore it.

The others before me, beginning with the pioneers of this philosophy, then the many who followed, in essence, "cleared the steps" as they moved their way forward. In doing this, in working on themselves and putting everything they gained, and everything they learned out into the open for scrutiny, they allowed everyone who cared to look an opportunity to begin on their own.

They never sought me out. I quite accidentally (or seemingly so) stumbled upon this site. I then studied it for quite some time before I made a CHOICE. I, at least in a rudimentary way, understood the wisdom of what they were putting out and I wanted to put into practice, at least to the best of my ability what I had read.

So how does this relate to family?

Unfortunately I am a long way from the backwoods where I grew up. I have little family around to speak of and only a few people who I would consider to be friends. The few friends that I do have have recognized the change in me, and I think this is a key and I wonder if my own family would see and understand?

By example, this site has shown me that change is possible. Through the example of others, through the hard work, they showed me that it is.

I cannot force change upon my family, nor anyone for that matter. But what I CAN do is change myself and allow others to recognize that change IS possible. Then it is up to them. First they have to recognize this truth, then they have to really desire it for themselves, then they have to begin to implement it. What can I do to assist?

Be honest with them. Continue to work upon myself. Cheer them on.

Something important here. Dont get sucked in!!! It is not that I do not care, but I cant allow myself to get emotionally involved. I can be happy for them if they advance, but I cant get angry or sad if they do not. They are at where they are at. It is not in my hands.

This does not mean that if someone in my family saw a change in me that they would change. It seems that there is a very real probability that they would not or even worse, that they would see the change and try all the harder to suck me into their world.
First, if they do not change, then (as the saying goes) it is what it is. This does not mean that I dont love them. It just means that I have to accept that they are not ready. The same will apply even if they do try harder to suck me into their world, I will still love them, though they may become angry with me and hold it against me that I will not join them and never talk to me again.

In the end, this IS about working on ourselves. Yet it is not in a selfish way, it is in a way that others can join in only if they are ready and choose to.

I wrote this because I would like to make sure that I have at least a basic grasp on how this works in regards to HOW we help others, which is not through force, but through example, through moving forward ourselves and if I do have a basic grasp, perhaps it can give others some insight.

If I am wrong, then perhaps another example could point my views in the correct direction and help those of us who are still taking our first steps into a new way of thinking and understanding.

Thank you for your time:)

Dave.