US Government shutdown

stellar said:
Could all this have something to do with the federal reserve charter which expires xmas eve 2013 and that it is not renewable???
And on that thought, if the debtors , say...China, were to start collecting on that debt all that the US govt could do would be to sell the country itself. That would not go down well with an armed disgruntled nation who is well on the way to poverty with not much more to lose?? :/
 
This is what the federal reserve itself has to say about "rumors" of their charter expiring:

Is the Federal Reserve Act going to expire?
No. The Federal Reserve Act of 1913--which established the Federal Reserve as the central bank of the United States--has been amended or altered by the Congress numerous times over the years, but the act has never included an "expiration date" or repeal date. As stated in the law itself, the Federal Reserve Act can only be repealed, amended, or altered by the Congress.

source: _http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/is-the-federal-reserve-act-going-to-expire.htm

I don't see Congress voting to repeal the Federal Reserve Act any time soon.
 
Yeah, and I don't see the federal reserve telling truths either so I guess it's a wait and see situation. :rolleyes:
 
stellar said:
Yeah, and I don't see the federal reserve telling truths either so I guess it's a wait and see situation. :rolleyes:

They do quote the section of the law itself to support their statement with a hyperlink that says:

Federal Reserve Act

Section 31. Reservation of right to amend
The right to amend, alter, or repeal this Act is hereby expressly reserved.

[Omitted from U.S. Code. Part of original Federal Reserve Act; not amended.]

This could be double checked for accuracy, however, I think the 100 year charter/expiration date is just a rumor.
 
Lilou said:
Federal Reserve Act

Section 31. Reservation of right to amend
The right to amend, alter, or repeal this Act is hereby expressly reserved.

[Omitted from U.S. Code. Part of original Federal Reserve Act; not amended.]

This could be double checked for accuracy, however, I think the 100 year charter/expiration date is just a rumor.
Thanks for the info Lilou, I'll read more about it.

There are probably alot of truths that have been omitted by design, or acts and laws are passed that have little to do with 'by the people, for the people..' With all the distractions and disasters people are inundated with these issues of omission are probably the last on their mind; it's all about survival.

To me, just cos it's on paper doesn't make it so. I still think that something's fishy about this whole shutdown business, they seem to be buying time for something more evil.The so called govt can already do what they like to whomever they like and there is nothing the people can do about it, can they? So just by issuing papers that say 'we say so' makes it all 'legal' and enforceable and makes me so mad :mad:, ya know what I mean?
 
I think the entire western (and thus global) financial system is teetering on collapse. The “shutdown” and “Debt ceiling” debate is just a last ditch effort by some to save a system that has been purposely set up to fail. It is mathematically impossible for the debt to be paid down particularly when the unfunded mandates are included which is around the $70 trillion level. They are arguing around the margins. Parts of the USA debt are loans to keep afloat European banks so that area did not collapse. All the PTB are waiting for now is the match to set the collapse off, whether it is a large False Flag, or some off planet comet. They are ready to make the change over to their Global monetary system having installed the necessary control’s like the NSA, National Healthcare Systems, and Global taxation. That’s why also “Obamacare” will never be defunded or stopped. It’s not about access to or free healthcare. It’s about control. No different than NSA type stuff (to keep us “safe”),the Homeland security department will not be defunded either. How long they will “enjoy” their “Order” is linked to outside intervention like the Wave coming through. Bottom line is there is no way to save the old system so they are going to continue to print money and keep interest rates near zero until their “Event” materializes. Then magically all debt will be eliminated but with the caveat you must pledge allegiance to the new system.
 
RMJ said:
I think the entire western (and thus global) financial system is teetering on collapse. The “shutdown” and “Debt ceiling” debate is just a last ditch effort by some to save a system that has been purposely set up to fail.

I think a lot about this topic. I don’t necessarily think the system was purposely set up to fail, at least by the grand majority of TPTB – though maybe some few see it this way at the apex that work to have full control. I think it was all about control through the control of money, etc and that we are seeing the natural progression of a system designed to enrich the few and enslave the many. It seems since this happens over and over throughout history that it probably has more to do with ‘the virus’ - pathologicals or authoritarians or what have you, as described in Political Ponerology and other sources that talk about the topic, moving fully into positions of influence and power. I just don’t see the majority of TPTB, the lower and middle rungs, benefiting from collapse. Such a collapse would be the point where they risk losing control, so I think they will try to keep it going and really it could last any number of years before it goes down.

I think years rather than months – the thing to watch IMO are the implementation of the new Basel III rules - http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/basel-iii-how-the-bank-for-international-settlements-is-going-to-help-bring-down-the-global-economy and bail-ins being set up, etc. Kind of the Apex of control (the people making the decisions and that might benefit) stoking the system. Big money has their hands in manipulating everything http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/u-s-justice-department-opens-criminal-probe-into-currency-market-manipulation.html so it can be quite some time before things reach a tipping point in the system with collapse. They may have built the police state, etc in the US and other countries, but they must fear the masses just saying that they’ve had enough, bringing out the pitchforks and taking a different approach to life.

It is mathematically impossible for the debt to be paid down particularly when the unfunded mandates are included which is around the $70 trillion level. They are arguing around the margins. Parts of the USA debt are loans to keep afloat European banks so that area did not collapse.

They will probably attempt to keep the system ‘stable’ with hyperinflationary practices or some such.

All the PTB are waiting for now is the match to set the collapse off, whether it is a large False Flag, or some off planet comet. They are ready to make the change over to their Global monetary system having installed the necessary control’s like the NSA, National Healthcare Systems, and Global taxation. That’s why also “Obamacare” will never be defunded or stopped. It’s not about access to or free healthcare. It’s about control. No different than NSA type stuff (to keep us “safe”),the Homeland security department will not be defunded either. How long they will “enjoy” their “Order” is linked to outside intervention like the Wave coming through. Bottom line is there is no way to save the old system so they are going to continue to print money and keep interest rates near zero until their “Event” materializes. Then magically all debt will be eliminated but with the caveat you must pledge allegiance to the new system.

Something to keep in mind is that most cogs in the machine of gov’t and finance don’t have a clue of what might be coming down the pike, ie cosmic bombardment, are just out to enrich themselves and may have no concept of an event happening.

An excerpt from the latest session to consider:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,32366.0.html
Q: (L) Next question? (Andromeda) Is the whole show to cover up the oncoming comets?

A: Partly, though even the higher level players may not be totally aware.

Q: (Atriedes) Why is there this big show with the British House of Lords or Commons or whatever, and suddenly there are all these speeches in Congress about taking back the power to declare war, and suddenly Obama changed from just going to war to, "Oh, I'm gonna go talk to Congress!" Why is there this whole big show about that aspect?

A: Drama to keep the masses off their backs about what really matters.

Q: (Ark) What really matters I think is that once in awhile you have to get rid of the old missiles, because they're costly. It's much better to get new ones so you have to get rid of the old ones. For the French and for the US; you have to get rid of them.

A: What really matters to the people is the coming Earth events for which they are entirely unprepared.

Q: (L) I guess what matters to them in the short term is jobs and the economy, all of which is related to climate change?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So they're not doing anything about climate change - and I don't mean global warming, either. I mean what's going on here on the planet right now in a big way. They're not doing anything about that, they're not doing anything to straighten out the vast inequity between the rich and poor... (Perceval)Are we talking about this Syria business at some level having been decided upon...

A: Yes, of course! Who do you think sent in the people to stir up that mess??!?

Q: (Perceval)Well, there's all sorts of talk about strategic colonial agendas: pipelines and blah blah blah...

A: Have any of their plans worked thus far except to put billions in their pockets?

Q: (Perceval)So it is just a racket!

A: Yes

Q: (Perceval)For making money and distracting people. (L) And distracting the people from kicking them out of power by keeping the people afraid.

A: Yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Q: (Perceval)See, that's just unthinkable to me, that they'd have a war just to have a war for no other good reason than to make money.

A: That is psychopathy for you!
 
the country is more at risk than before in recent history to a natural disaster on the scale of displacing millions. so I hope this doesn't happen... whoever decided to put the US in 17 trillion debt is a genius.
 
"While the Republican-controlled House of Representatives passed a resolution Friday that keeps the government funded through Dec. 15, the measure also defunded President Obama's signature health care law — which means it has virtually no chance of passing the Democratic-controlled Senate."

the article "8 Things to Know About a Government Shutdown" is in error. The Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) is a bone fide law passed by Congress and upheld by the Supreme Court and cannot be "defunded" as it stands by a government shutdown or negotiation. It would have to come up through the congressional system in order to make ANY changes and that would be hard to do when congress is home sipping beer. The ACA has already been in operation for many months on certain levels for some of the new benefits and loosening of restrictions. October 1st the websites opened to the general public and the crowds came. The republicans tried to make it a shutdown issue but the dog has no legs. FWIW.
 
An agreement was just reached, so the shutdown is ended:

US senate leaders strike deal to raise debt ceiling and end government shutdown

The US Senate endorsed bipartisan legislation to lift the debt ceiling on Tuesday night, paving the way for legislation that pulls the country from brink of a looming debt default and signals the end of a two-week government shutdown.

The bill, a temporary fix that will last through until the start of 2014, was passed 81-18 with a majority of both Democrats and Republicans in support.

It now passes to the Republican-dominated House of Representatives, for another vote in the next few hours, where it was expected to pass the support of Democrats.

In brief remarks at the White House, shortly before the House was due to vote, president Barack Obama said he hoped the deal would "lift the cloud of uncertainty" that has hung over the country in recent weeks.

"Once this agreement arrives on my desk, I will sign it immediately," he said, saying he hoped the next round of spending negotiations between the parties would be more successful.

"Hopefully next time it won't be in the eleventh hour. We've got to get out of the habit of governing by crisis."

Earlier in the day, House Republican leaders conceded defeat in their two-week battle to derail Obama's healthcare reforms on Wednesday, and said they would not block the deal, despite winning virtually no concessions.

With just hours to go until the start of the deadline set by the US Treasury for extending the debt limit, House speaker John Boehner signalled he was ready to accept a Senate-drafted peace deal that contained almost no concessions to conservatives who had driven the country the precipice of a new financial crisis.

The Republican capitulation was swift and dramatic. "We fought the good fight, but we just didn't win," Boehner told a local TV station in his hometown of Cincinnati, Ohio.

Moderate Republicans, bitter at the wounds inflicted on the party by a fight that ended in an almost complete failure to achieve any of the concessions they had sought, lashed out at their conservative colleagues.

The standoff ended just after midday when Harry Reid, the majority leader, announced the deal on the the floor of the Senate. Calling for all sides to work together, he said: "Now is not the time for pointing the fingers of blame. Now is the time for reconciliation."

Mitch McConnell, the Republican minority leader, acknowledged the fight was over. "This has been a long, challenging few weeks," McConnell said. "This is far less than many of us had hoped for, but it is far better than some had sought."

The deal, crafted by Reid and McConnell, will fund the government until 15 January and lift the debt ceiling until 7 February. It will force both sides into a formal budget conference in an attempt to reach a longer-term deal by 13 December.

The only apparent change to the Affordable Care Act, which Republicans had targeted when they precipitated the government shutdown, involves asking the Obama administration to carry out better checks on the incomes of people registering for insurance exchanges.

A senior Republican aide told the Guardian that Boehner had agreed to allow the House to vote on the deal, which in practice means it would pass with support from Democrats and moderate Republicans. The vote was due to take place on Wednesday evening.

At 3pm, Boehner hosted a short meeting with Republicans in the House. Sources inside said he effectively told his colleagues they had lost the fight, before he was given a tepid applause.

Several congressman leaving the meeting conceded that hardline Republican tactics, which forced a two-week government shutdown and took the government to the brink of an economic crisis, had left them empty-handed.

The White House welcomed the Senate deal but cautioned that the battle would not be finally over until House lawmakers voted in favour of it. "The president applauds leader Reid and minority leader McConnell for working together to forge this compromise and encourages the Congress to act swiftly to end this shutdown and protect the full faith and credit of the United States of America," said Obama's chief spokesman, Jay Carney.

The White House also hinted that Obama may use the defeat of conservatives in Congress as a way to push ahead with other administration priorities such as immigration reform, that were previously blocked from coming to the floor of the House of Representatives.

"The president believes that one of the consequences of these manufactured crises is that time is taken away from the pursuit of other goals that we have as a nation," added Carney. "That includes ... the project of bringing about legislation that he can sign that comprehensively reforms our immigration system."

Recriminations among Republicans flew thick and fast, with moderates accusing House conservatives of trashing the party's reputation in pursuit of an impossible ambition to repeal or defund the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

Senator Lindsey Graham, of South Carolina, said this had "been the best two weeks for the Democratic party in recent times".

"When we evaluate the last couple of weeks, it should be entitled the time of great lost opportunity. If we had been focused on the rollout of Obamacare and its confusion, public support would have diminished. Instead, our numbers have gone down, Obamacare has mysteriously gone up, and other than that, this has been great."

Graham was scathing about the influence of conservative advocacy groups such as Heritage Action, which torpedoed a deal on Tuesday when it threatened to withdraw support from Republicans who backed it. He also warned of the damage that the party had inflicted on itself: "The way we are behaving and the path we have taken the last couple of weeks leads to a marginalised party in the eyes of the American people," he said.

Ted Cruz, the first-term Republican senator from Texas who had led the rebellion against Obamacare with a marathon 21-hour speech last month, was unrepentant but said he would not stand in the way of the Senate vote even though he opposes the deal.

Underscoring the fault lines in the Republican party, he blamed fellow senators for failing to go along with his strategy. "Unfortunately the Senate chose not to follow the House and in particular we saw real division among Senate Republicans. Had Senate Republicans united and supported House Republicans the outcome of this would have been very, very different," Cruz said.

Shortly before the Senate vote, Cruz took to the floor to urge his colleagues to vote against it. "This is a terrible deal," he said. "It embodies everything about the Washington establishment that frustrates the American people."

It was the worst of all possible outcomes for Republicans. None of their stated goals were achieved, and polls showed that voters overwhelmingly blamed them for the crisis. By refusing to blink, Democrats pushed Republicans to show that they would not let the US default on its debts, making it hard for the GOP to repeat its tactic.

Charles Boustany, a Louisiana Republican Charles Boustany, said the Tea Party-backed members of the House of Representatives had put the GOP's position at risk. "This could trigger a wave of discontent that could wash out our Republican majority in the House if we're not careful - it's getting to that level," Boustany told the National Journal.

However, conservatives were equally robust in return. Thomas Massie, a Republican from Kentucky, admitted his side had emerged with "a goose egg". "We got nothing," he said.

Asked if his party had been damaged in any way over the last two weeks, he replied: "No, I don't think so. I think we'll find out in 2014, at the ballot box."

 
1984 said:
This whole 'shutdown' stinks - every other time, they've waited *just* up to the last minute and it passes because it's all just a bunch of BS anyway.

I listen to the Russian news channel every morning, and everyday they gave an update on the "crisis", including having interviews with various financial commentators. And all of them, including American ones and one of the Economic Sciences Nobel prize winners, were saying that there is nothing to worry about and they expect the issue to be resolved at the last moment. That this is pretty much a farce, a pre-show for the upcoming elections.
 
Keit said:
1984 said:
This whole 'shutdown' stinks - every other time, they've waited *just* up to the last minute and it passes because it's all just a bunch of BS anyway.

I listen to the Russian news channel every morning, and everyday they gave an update on the "crisis", including having interviews with various financial commentators. And all of them, including American ones and one of the Economic Sciences Nobel prize winners, were saying that there is nothing to worry about and they expect the issue to be resolved at the last moment. That this is pretty much a farce, a pre-show for the upcoming elections.

Hmm, I was thinking this too. And if this was such an issue as the news channels depicted here in the US then the "severity" of the shutdown would still be in discussion right now. Haha, then one is reminded, if the research as been done, that its all to distract us from the real things at hand and that are coming. Just like the C's said also. A pre-show for the upcoming elections makes sense, considering how far the PTB goes to maneuver something that will benefit them.
 
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