Veggie VS Carnivore. Round One, Fight!

[Faith]

My flatmate is a veggie. He is also an old friend of mine. Besides the nutrition issue we are on good terms. I moved to his flat in November 2011.

I've managed to avoid bread, gluten and diary for the most part and decreased my sugar- and alcohol-consumption. There are a few accidental occasions, where I find it hard to avoid it, like when I am spontaneously invited to diner or when I am on the road. This is a matter of discipline and I am not yet disciplined enough to avoid it by all means necessary. I guess it is too much at once. I've barely managed to be on my own and I should be glad that I even got that far. Ok, this is another issue I am working on: Difficulty of allowing myself some credit. Big family issue. If someone likes something I have done or said it will be ignored or if acknowledged, then quickly forgotten, to keep the bad self-image alive. This is a nasty little program, that seems to even run in broad daylight. Ok, ok... Lessons over lessens as far as the eye can reach! I don't want to list it all. My therapist assists me greatly. I really have the feeling of progression, little by little. So, back to the topic. I've finished the book 'Life Without Bread' which helped me understand the need of switching to the hunter-gatherer-mode. I want to make the best of myself, work properly. I don't have the impression that I am working properly. I feel tired all the time and my professional work isn't fun for the most part, but it should be fun, because I turned passion to profession. Anyway, I think I can do better, having much more free will, like Arc put it in his Barcelona-presentation. So next step would be starting the low-carb-high-fat-diet.

My flatmate avoids meat by all means which is quite impressive since it is a sign of discipline. He avoids it because of those animal-concentration-camps. That's one of the reasons why I buy bio-meat or at least bio-pork, since I am pretty low on cash. But corrupted, industrial meat is also full of grab and it doesn't taste very good. So it is something to be avoided no matter how you look at it. Anyway, Increasing my meat-consumption will provoke him, I'm sure. There were occasions when he already commented about my nutrition habits, when he watched me frying a steak without preparing a side dish. I guess I am just hypersensitive but those 'balanced-diet-mantras' really get on my nerves, especially when people need to lecture me! A little more tolerance please! I told my therapist about it and she finds both our attitudes sort of fanatic. She doesn't agree with the low-carb-high-fat-approach and believes it has been falsified by the academic authorities! Well, of course it has been falsified by the authorities! Otherwise it wouldn't be true, would it? Anyway, she decided to avoid this tobic and focus on the psychological issues.

Although I am arguing against those lectures and especially lecturing without being asked to do so, I really try to avoid such confrontations. I'm such a people pleaser, so damn addicted to 'harmony'! But I know, I need to face those confrontations, face disharmony, being a pain in the ass, yeah! Watch me! Well, that doesn't suit me very well, does it? One of the reasons why I am reading the 'Life without Bread-Thread' is to gain more knowledge about nutrition-issues to improve my arguing in cases of confrontation.

What do you think? What would you do in a situation like this? I'm not looking forward to starting my low-carb-high-fat-diet!

 

[Laura]

What do you think? What would you do in a situation like this? I'm not looking forward to starting my low-carb-high-fat-diet!

If you aren't feeling bad enough to be motivated, and doing it only invites situation where you feel worse, forget about it. It's obviously not for you.

 

[Faith]

What I was trying to say is, that I feel the urge of changing my diet but also realize the trouble it causes. Of course it would be more trouble to stay that way without improvement. I must learn to go my way consequently, even if it means to provoke disagreement. I know, it can' t be a comfortable way! I want to face it. I don't want to stop. I just wanted to ask you some advice on how to deal with such situations.

 

[Laura]

What I was trying to say is, that I feel the urge of changing my diet but also realize the trouble it causes. Of course it would be more trouble to stay that way without improvement. I must learn to go my way consequently, even if it means to provoke disagreement. I know, it can' t be a comfortable way! I want to face it. I don't want to stop. I just wanted to ask you some advice on how to deal with such situations.

As gently and firmly as possible. Avoid making a "dietary issue" out of it; just say "I eat this because this is what I like and want - I don't tell you what to eat, don't bother me!" It's not your job to convert anyone, nor do you have to set yourself up as an example (read: target). Keep a journal and let it be an issue only between you and yourself, and the forum discussions here.

If someone tries to urge something on you that you have decided you are not going to eat, be polite and say "no thank you, it looks delicious and tempting, but I'm allergic and I don't want to be sick."

 

[loreta]

Talk to your room mate, be clear about your decision (if you have take it). It is not clear if you have decided to take this road of low carb.

When I have decided to reduce my carbs, because I was feeling very hill, I took it like a religion: I am almost fanatic with me, like I am in the army. But for me it works. I don't try to change anybody. It is my discipline, what in something I believe, and reading the threat here helps me a lot.

Be clear, inside you. What do you want? Are you afraid of confrontation? Under my humble point of vue, there is nothing bad in confronting and discussing about any subject. If you know what you do is right with you... who cares about what the others think? It is your decision. But decision you have to take.

But this is my opinion and I am not an expert. Please, accept my comments very personal.

 

[Alana]

Talk to your room mate, be clear about your decision (if you have take it). It is not clear if you have decided to take this road of low carb.

Personally, I don't see this as necessary. It will be making a big issue out of it and invite the roommate to further lectures and discussions about the diet. Forget-me-not, you don't need to explain your dietary choices to anyone. You do what you have to do, and if your roommate has a problem with it, it is HIS problem, don't allow him to transfer it on to you.

My first year at the university, my roommate was a vegan! It was the first time I heard of them. After I understood what she was eating (never I understood why) I just accepted it and never brought it up. I continued buying and cooking my steaks and meats. At one point she did mention that I cook a lot of meat, but I didn't even reply, I think I just smiled and continued doing what I was doing. You see, I was so sure that her diet was just bizarre and mine a more humane one, that I felt sorry for her, but i didn't feel the need to go out of my ways to accommodate her crazy ways. Because of my non-response to her comments about my diet, she ended up writing her name on plates and bowls and pans in the kitchen so that I don't use them to put my "evil"meats in them Crazy, sure, but I said, Fair enough, and never used those pots and plates. End of story. We ended up becoming quite close in the end, and our dietary changes did not affect us. When I was in NY I became a vegetarian and I wrote to her, and she responded that she had to start eating some fish herself, according to her doctor! Oh well...

My point is, you don't need to explain yourself, like Laura says. In the end, have pity for the guy, he knows not what he is doing, and he is not giving his mind and body the proper diet to work on. You do.

 

[ocean59]

I agree that there is no need for this to be discussed with your flatmate, though since there have already been many discussions, this may be a little more difficult now.

There were occasions when he already commented about my nutrition habits, when he watched me frying a steak without preparing a side dish.

It might be helpful to know a little more about the conversation that took place. What did he comment? How did you reply, and why?

I guess I am just hypersensitive but those 'balanced-diet-mantras' really get on my nerves, especially when people need to lecture me!

Again, I think it is important to know more specifically what your flatmate is saying, and what your responses are. Later in the post, you mention that you need to do less lecturing yourself. Were you trying to convince your flatmate of your point of view, counter-lecturing?

A little more tolerance please! I told my therapist about it and she finds both our attitudes sort of fanatic.

Therapists are usually quite good at spotting fanaticism (since it is part of their job). If your attitudes about diet are coming across as fanatical to your therapist - they probably are to your flatmate as well. It doesn't really sound like that approach is going well. Perhaps exercising a little more external consideration, specifically in the area of diet as it regards your relationship with your flatmate, may lead to a more harmonious situation.

Although I am arguing against those lectures and especially lecturing without being asked to do so, I really try to avoid such confrontations.

I think this is counter-intuitive. Lecturing without being asked is synonymous with inviting confrontation, not avoiding it.

I'm such a people pleaser, so damn addicted to 'harmony'! But I know, I need to face those confrontations, face disharmony, being a pain in the ass, yeah! Watch me! Well, that doesn't suit me very well, does it?

I too have big issues with people pleasing, being nice, and whatnot.

It doesn't sound to me like you are avoiding confrontations - but creating them. Same with the approach to harmony - it seems to be creating disharmony. Perhaps it is time to set a boundary that unless your flatmate sincerely shows an interest in learning about your dietary habits, to simply ignore the commentary, and stay quiet about it, perhaps writing in a journal or here if needed.

Just a few thoughts, for whatever they're worth.

 

[ocean59]

What I was trying to say is, that I feel the urge of changing my diet but also realize the trouble it causes.

Changing the diet doesn't cause trouble - on the contrary, it usually results in numerous improvements on all levels - for most people. Everyone is different though of course.

I must learn to go my way consequently, even if it means to provoke disagreement.

It doesn't have to provoke disagreement - this is almost entirely dependent on the attitude you take towards the changes you say you are wanting to make. Everybody eats, and no two people eat exactly the same thing - but this in and of itself does not provoke disagreement on the level you are describing, imo.

I know, it can' t be a comfortable way!

Why not? Yes there are challenges, and no it is not easy, but I don't think it is as horrible as you are implying here. It's just different. :)

 

[Faith]

Thank you for your valuable replies. I must admit my post has been written very hasty and also a bit sloppy. I was in a hurry.

Between my flatmate and me there was no real fight yet. He made some sarcastic comments like:” Now that's a balanced meal! You really should work on your addiction issue! Animals have to die because of your addiction, because you are not in control of yourself. If more people came to the conclusion eating more meat would be beneficial, more animals would be slaughtered. There aren't enough animals for everyone. If you saw that, there would be one problem less on this planet!” I felt angry because I haven't criticized him for eating veggie food and I do not intent to. I replied something like: ”You are a vegetarian and I am a “carnivore”. You must live with that” He replied: “No, You must live with that!” After a tense silence I started another topic. It wasn't a big deal actually. Watching me preparing meat has made him a bit angry. That's for sure. He accepts my nutrition habits as they are now, but needs to express his irritation every now and then, make his comments. In most cases I haven't replied at all, although it gets on my nerves. I don't know how he will react on my advanced diet. I really like him and I'm afraid it might affect our friendship. But maybe you are right. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad.

I am not trying to lecture people but I am uneasy, when I feel I have to explain myself, when I am criticized or judged. Whenever I have to show my true colors I feel uneasy. Maybe it's associated with withdrawal of affection like in the family stronghold I was living in most of my life.

But my therapist might be right calling my view on nutrition fanatic because I am on an uneasy footing with this, with everything actually. I am an uneasy person. I feel I am in a permanent hurry. That's not good, I know. But on the other hand I'm afraid my time runs out and I am also afraid I'm loosing myself, loosing those precious insights that have brought me here, loosing you. I feel I have to be careful holding myself together. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Faith]

But I must tell him something. You are right: I shouldn't make a "dietary-issue" out of it but at least I feel I should tell him something like "well, I finished that book and I want to try it myself, see if it helps".

 

[Faith]

"I eat this because this is what I like and want - I don't tell you what to eat, don't bother me!"

:/ hmm... I get more and more the impression, the main issue I'm dealing with is: doing what I want without explaining myself to him or anyone (and without being angry of course). But on the other hand I understand his confusion and I also understand his motives regarding factory farming. I don't want him to have a false impression of me, thinking I'm just addicted to meat, but on the other hand I must stop pleasing people... hmm.

 

[RedFox]

I don't want him to have a false impression of me, thinking I'm just addicted to meat, but on the other hand I must stop pleasing people...

Sometimes people need false impressions in order to justify there own position. If he's vegetarian, then he may need to think you are addicted to meat in order to be comfortable being a vegetarian. External consideration is the ability to hold your own position whilst understanding (and not destabilising) others position - sometimes that actually means being the 'bad guy' (or 'addicted to meat') in their eyes, if it makes everyones life easier.
Friction is only useful when asked for by the other party, and holding your own position is what you should do (acting for your own destiny) - but do so in a way that causes the least friction.

 

[Faith]

External consideration is the ability to hold your own position whilst understanding (and not destabilising) others position - sometimes that actually means being the 'bad guy' (or 'addicted to meat') in their eyes, if it makes everyones life easier.

I see. So I must learn enduring a false impression, to put the friction inside myself. That's exactly the opposite of what I have learned at home.

EDIT: added a sentence

 

[Faith]

I'm preparing meat when he is still asleep, just to spare him watching me. I wonder weather this is a good tragedy. I get up earlier than my flatmate, you know. But I must also face the case when he is around. Exercising external consideration!


EDIT: added a sentence

 

[Carl]

I'm preparing meat when he is still asleep, just to spare him watching me. I wonder weather this is a good tragedy. I get up earlier than my flatmate, you know. But I must also face the case when he is around. Exercising external consideration!


EDIT: added a sentence

By cooking at a different time in order to appease him, would you be causing inconvenience to yourself? If so, then this is not really external considering. Perhaps it is more internal considering, are you more worried about what he thinks of you than you are about following your own path and letting him follow his?

The best way to diffuse any tension has already been stated in this thread. Keep doing what you're doing but don't be militant about it, be nice to him and talk about other things, then maybe he will start to consider the meat issue less.

If he invites discussion about diet then go very easy on him, resist the urge to tell him all the benefits of the paleo diet because he probably will not listen. A simple "I've got some books you could read on the subject if you'd like to learn about it" is enough to send most people running for the hills, so maybe try that.

In my flat everyone thinks I'm crazy, but I get away with it by making a joke out of it and being friendly to them anyway. I know they talk behind my back about how "unhealthy" my diet is, but it does not matter.

Maybe looking at your motivation for the diet would be helpful? When I first started I didn't know much about it, so my motivation slipped and I was like "oh its okay to have some chocolate now and again, some pizza etc". When you learn more however, you start to understand just what happens when you take that bite of evil food, and if you pay close attention you can feel your mood change after eating it, feel the brain fog setting in within minutes sometimes.