Veggie VS Carnivore. Round One, Fight!

[hesperides]

I'm preparing meat when he is still asleep, just to spare him watching me. I wonder weather this is a good tragedy. I get up earlier than my flatmate, you know. But I must also face the case when he is around. Exercising external consideration!

I don´t think cooking meat when he is asleep while sacrificing part of your sleeptime is the best way to go because you are giving your energy and free will away when you think you are doing it to put him in a comfort zone. Besides, there are great possibilities your flatmate, being an anti-meat thinker as he is, could interpret "assertively?" you are cooking in secret because you are not totally committed with your diet idea (one of the things he needs to think, probably), giving him thereby proof of his indisputable rightness about diet issue, which he could mention anyway again as he gets the heavy meat perfume scattered all along the flat as he wakes up. . All the while another deeper part of you, the one that can´t stand lies, makes you feel bad or even worse as sincerity on one´s expectation and external consideration go hand in hand. Hard job, I know, but it really unties our complex, and all sort of concerns resulting from behaviours and communication issues (that mainly refer to what other thinks about us), that were imposed on us since our very birth.

From above answers given to forum members, it seems you already have insights about those issues, and sure, family affection withdrawal and loving a vegetarian flatmate provides good opportunities to learning how to give priority to our own TRUE experiences first and learn from them. Been there too.

 

[Alada]

[quote author=RedFox]

I don't want him to have a false impression of me, thinking I'm just addicted to meat, but on the other hand I must stop pleasing people...

Sometimes people need false impressions in order to justify there own position. If he's vegetarian, then he may need to think you are addicted to meat in order to be comfortable being a vegetarian. External consideration is the ability to hold your own position whilst understanding (and not destabilising) others position - sometimes that actually means being the 'bad guy' (or 'addicted to meat') in their eyes, if it makes everyones life easier.
[/quote]

[quote author=Carlise]
By cooking at a different time in order to appease him, would you be causing inconvenience to yourself? If so, then this is not really external considering. Perhaps it is more internal considering, are you more worried about what he thinks of you than you are about following your own path and letting him follow his?

[...]

In my flat everyone thinks I'm crazy, but I get away with it by making a joke out of it and being friendly to them anyway. I know they talk behind my back about how "unhealthy" my diet is, but it does not matter.
[/quote]

I agree with the above and wonder if part of the issue here is Self Importance, worrying what others think of us. I've struggled with that one off and on quite a bit, an still do at time, but in the end it really is better and such a relief to let it go. As Carlise points out, people a will talk about us anyway, or as RedFox points out will think whatever they will think to support their own beliefs and keep them intact. Let them have them!

Maybe 'round one' of the fight is internal then? Allowing yourself to be seen as 'wrong' or 'bad' by other people, while gently but firmly holding your line. You don't need to answer back, or can even support their view, as in "yeah you might be right, but for now I'm gonna carry on with my crazy experiment". The 'harmony' your looking for might have more to do with learning to manage the feelings and friction that comes up internally from letting others perceive you in this way.

Just because your flat mate thinks you 'bad' for the way you choose to eat, doesn't make it so! So why bother trying to change his point of view if it's only creating friction between you? As as others have mentioned if it seems fanatical to others, maybe you've been overdoing it there and forcing the issue onto people that aren't asking? People are generally very happy with their view of life, their opinions, when we jump in uninvited with information that threatens those views, you can be sure that they will defend them to the hilt. When someone is sleeping its not really a good idea to poke them with a stick.

 

[Faith]

People are generally very happy with their view of life, their opinions, when we jump in uninvited with information that threatens those views, you can be sure that they will defend them to the hilt. When someone is sleeping its not really a good idea to poke them with a stick.

In the very beginning he asked me, why I want to avoid gluten and diary. I told him: "I want to find a better diet for myself, because I'm feeling not so well. I am experimenting. I am slowly approaching a specific form of diet". I also tried to relativize my approach by pointing out, that there are many different and sometimes contradicting attitudes out there, which makes it hard to find the right one and especially the one that fits ones own individual characteristics. "To me there is only one way to find out: trial and error. Maybe it works, maybe not. Everyone has to judge for him/hersself". I even asked him how he managed it to be so disciplined, being a vegetarian so consequently? It's another form of discipline, which takes some strength. I find that remarkable, even if it's not the road I want to go. He seemed to be open-minded. Now he likes coconut-oil and ghee. He remembered his past gastritis, when he had to avoid milk. I got the feeling he may be open to this approach.

:/ However, maybe I've overdone it. I guess I've talked too much about it. I also tend to forestall possible objections, to avoid friction. I see that this behavior might have been provocative, that it may have caused the opposite to happen. Sometimes I made the mistake of reporting, what I have learned recently, without being asked, like you tell someone "Guess, what has happened this morning?" I guess I wanted to spark interest in my approach, promote it, have a good influence over him, but also to minimize friction.

Maybe 'round one' of the fight is internal then? Allowing yourself to be seen as 'wrong' or 'bad' by other people, while gently but firmly holding your line.

Yes, I feel that this is an important lesson I have to learn.

Preparing meat when he is not watching is a bad idea. I want to find a way to be myself around people without pushing anyone, without causing too much friction. I don't want to hide any longer. It seems sometimes I am lacking self-confidence.

EDIT: added a sentence

second EDIT: added 'sometimes' to the last sentence, because there are also situations where I can discern myself from others without feeling bad or angry.

 

[Faith]

It's not your job to convert anyone, nor do you have to set yourself up as an example (read: target).

I must keep that in mind.

As I see it the difficulty of respecting free will in general is to be able to discern whether help is wanted or not, but also to be in control of oneself. If it is wanted I can only give my two cents, do the best I can in his or her best interest. Therefor I must be very careful, very external considering and not at all internal considering.

My first year at the university, my roommate was a vegan! It was the first time I heard of them. After I understood what she was eating (never I understood why) I just accepted it and never brought it up. I continued buying and cooking my steaks and meats. At one point she did mention that I cook a lot of meat, but I didn't even reply, I think I just smiled and continued doing what I was doing. You see, I was so sure that her diet was just bizarre and mine a more humane one, that I felt sorry for her, but i didn't feel the need to go out of my ways to accommodate her crazy ways.

It's a strange thing, that I tend to give so much importance to what he thinks is right. I really don't think he is right about his diet! As to the factory farming I have some difficulties as well, but I don't think poisoning myself is an alternative. At the moment I think a proper diet is much more important. What do you think about factory farming?

 

[Nienna]

What do you think about factory farming?

Factory farming is evil. That's why we all are trying to find grass fed/grass finished or pastured meat/fat, be it beef, pork, eggs, chicken, butter, whatever.

Not only is factory farming horrible for the animals, the meat contains antibiotics, hormones from stress and inoculations, and diseases. Because they are kept in very small enclosures, there is a lot of feces also.

The best way to fight factory farming is not to eat vegetarian as so many vegetarians/vegans think, but to buy from those who treat their animals with kindness and caring These are local farmers. That is what the big ag corporations do not want, local farmers being able to compete with them.

Not only is factory farming evil, so, too, is Big Ag. It has depleted the topsoil and killed off a lot of life also. There is no easy fix for that.

Maybe you would like to read Lierre Keith's book The Vegetarian Myth, along with other books like Life Without Bread and Primal Body, Primal Mind?

 

[Faith]

(...), but to buy from those who treat their animals with kindness and caring These are local farmers. That is what the big ag corporations do not want, local farmers being able to compete with them.

Buying from local farmers directly would be even better, than buying bio-meat in the supermarket. It would be better to be in contact with the people responsible for their animals, than trusting a bio-company, that promisses to follow bio-gegulations. But judging by its taste and how it looks, bio-food from bio-companies seems to be far better than regular food. I discovered in many cases you can judge food-quality by taste and smell.

Maybe you would like to read Lierre Keith's book The Vegetarian Myth, along with other books like Life Without Bread and Primal Body, Primal Mind?

Thanks for the tip :)

 

[Alada]

Maybe 'round one' of the fight is internal then? Allowing yourself to be seen as 'wrong' or 'bad' by other people, while gently but firmly holding your line.

Yes, I feel that this is an important lesson I have to learn.

Preparing meat when he is not watching is a bad idea. I want to find a way to be myself around people without pushing anyone, without causing too much friction. I don't want to hide any longer. It seems sometimes I am lacking self-confidence.

Well 'self-confidence' can be another label for Self-Importance, yet we paint it a different colour so we can feel sorry for ourselves, see?

There is a lot of self induced stress that comes from Self-Importance, as I have found in myself, worrying about others perceptions. Its a bad habit and just wastes the energy we're supposed to be try to conserve. So perhaps someone thinks you an idiot to eat the way you do, let them think it! You know there are good reasons to eat a certain way, not least of which is not wishing to be a cattle for something else. ;)

 

[Psalehesost]

Buying from local farmers directly would be even better, than buying bio-meat in the supermarket. It would be better to be in contact with the people responsible for their animals, than trusting a bio-company, that promisses to follow bio-gegulations. But judging by its taste and how it looks, bio-food from bio-companies seems to be far better than regular food. I discovered in many cases you can judge food-quality by taste and smell.

Another suggestion: If you haven't, why not search around and see what local meat shops and/or butchers there are? If lucky, you might find at least one which gets their meat from local sources (nearby farmers).

 

[RedFox]

Maybe you would like to read Lierre Keith's book The Vegetarian Myth, along with other books like Life Without Bread and Primal Body, Primal Mind?

Thanks for the tip :)

One thing you will find is the more you understand why it is important (based on the research/data) to eat a certain way, the more confident you will be in yourself and your choice to eat this way. This then means you are less likely to seek others approval/want to share when not asked.
It is completely normal to want to share, and all of us like to be reassured we are doing the right thing - so rather than seek reassurance from your vegetarian fried, gain it by reading and understanding your choices. Knowledge (when applied) protects, ignorance endangers. :)

 

[Faith]

Since my return I've started to weigh out those food ingredients, that contain lots of carbs like potato, buckwheat and quinoa. I also experiment with new recipes. Two times a day I am preparing my food, at least one time containing meat. So I eat meat every day. Right now I am oscillating between four and ten bread units. I haven't balanced it out yet.

There has been one occasion when my flatmate wondered about this odd habit. He finds my approach extreme and he's right from his point of view. I'm having less trouble to cope with his disapproval, it seems. But it depends on my mood. When it's bad I try to stay away and find ways to cope with it alone, exploring this bad mood of mine. When I am in bad mood everything is much more difficult, you know. Everything is getting on my nerves and I'm very unstable, feeling weak but also angry, about myself and others, projecting it onto others or judging myself and others too harshly. In most cases I am very thin skinned, so that I don't even dare looking anyone in the eyes. When I am in such a state, I try to experience it consciously without troubling anyone. That's a new practice, that seems to work more or less, trying to be the first recognizing that I am in bad mood. I am not really myself when I am like that. This condition really troubles me a lot. Therefore I increased my EE-practicing, which helps a lot. But after a view days of feeling good, my mood changed to bad again. This tendency for depression started to worsen when I returned from my family fortress. I also try to not judge me harshly when I am that way. My therapist thinks, that this might very well have something to do with exhaustion. I am asking too much from me. My therapist reminds me that I'm no berserk. So this is how things are at the moment. But I am progressing, if only a little in the eyes of a berserk. It's a start. Concerning damage control I feel that I've also come one step further.

I also talked to my dear neighbor, who is well aware of certain esoteric truths, a wise elderly woman from Russia, who never stops to surprise me. We have much in common it seems. Many things she says reminds me of the concepts I learned from the wave series. But most of all she is a very friendly and caring woman, openminded, humble, selfironic, patient, humorous and strong minded, very conscious. She looks a bit like the oracle-lady in "Matrix" but not without fail. On the contrary: She laughes about herself, having not yet completed all the tasks, being still insane, looking for answers as well. She told me that she is on a learning course, trying to heal herself and to get sane. Manifesting healing and growth, as she puts it. When we spoke about higher beings I told her about the Cassies and she replied, that she has a good feeling about them: “Ah, those are the wise ones.” She is very interested in learning more about them. From what I have told her they remind her of the Pleiades. Although she knows about our sinister oppressors, the Lizzie's and co, she keeps up a good spirit. She also says that I have to find my own pace, that I should stop judging myself so harshly and learn to treat me well. With a Russian accent she says things like “If you don't love yourself who else?” :)

Thank you for those valuable replies. The definitely help me seeing certain things. As usual there is more than meet the eye.

And her name is Luba, you know, like my avatar once :P


EDIT: ...added last sentence