War, PTSD, psychopathy, and the military

[Mike]

I've been thinking about war, PTSD, psycopathy and the military. Seems to me that there could be a possible thread to war and psycopathy that extends beyond the other reasons discussed here and at other sites (transfer of energy to STS, war is a racket for the rich, etc) that relates to the discussion of ponerology.
From a couple of websites about PTSD:

http://psychcentral.com/library/ptsd_facts.htm

The estimated lifetime prevalence of PTSD among American Vietnam theater veterans is 30.9 for men and 26.9 for women. An additional 22.5 of men and 21.2 of women have had partial PTSD at some point in their lives. Thus more than half of all male Vietnam veterans and almost half of all female Vietnam veterans -- About 1,700,000 Vietnam veterans in all -- have experienced "clinically serious stress reaction symptoms."

15.2 percent of all male Vietnam theater veterans (479,000 out of 3,140,000 men who served in Vietnam) and 8.1 percent of all female Vietnam theater veterans (610 out of 7,200 women who served in Vietnam) are current cases of PTSD.

http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2006/1/24/12254/2248

19% to 21% of returned combat vets suffer from PTSD, depression or anxiety.
15% to 17% of Iraq, and 6% of Afghanistan vets had PTSD symptoms 3 to 12 months after their deployments.

Really, I wonder why this percentage. Why does one person experience problems and when another does not? After considering that not every vet would encounter situations that could stress them enough to develop PTSD, I think that the number/percentage of vets that have serious mental health issues has some connection to the psychopath and that IMO the psychopath wouldn't develop PTSD. They wouldn't have the same reaction to the general carnage and nastiness of war that a person with a conscience has. The military as Kimber pointed out in her post "A typical psychopath", seems to be the perfect place for a psychopath or individuals more oriented toward psychopathy. A prolonged war or combat would in affect wear on and weed out those with a conscience leaving an ever increasing number of individuals leaning toward psychopathy. This could have an impact on why Unit Cohesion seems to break down after a certain point in sustained combat operations. Also, the survivors of war (with a conscience) would most likely deteriorate the environment that they return to as they suffer from PTSD. After the war a large percentage of them would be dealing with PTSD with the general ill affects on families and society. So war seems to bolster the hold of society by psychopathy even well after the war is over.

Another thread to this line of thought is that what the military does to individuals has a parrallel to what a person engaged in "The Work" is trying to do, but a person in the military is indoctrinated in a program leading toward psychopathy. From my understanding of "The Work" a person is working on ridding themselves of the various programs, etc that society or what have you has programed into them so that they can build themselve up from a new understanding. Watch the Boot camp scence from the movie "Full Metal Jacket." The military's sole intend in the beginning is to break a person down, ridding them, if possible, IMO of their conscience only to build that person the way they want. Another source of study for this topic is the book "A Sense of Honor" by James Webb that chronicals life at the Naval Academy and shows the ridicule and really indoctrination (the first day is called "Indoctrination Day") that an individual goes through during their first year. Domination and control, subservience and obeying orders are the order of the day, everyday. When a person finishes this trial, they become the newly taught dominator to be unleashed on the next year's set of individuals. A psychopath would seem to have a field day in this atmosphere. Another unexpected outcome from what I see, in a way, as a school of psychopath, is that some individuals with a conscience can become stronger because they learned important lessons about the psychopath. An example of this learning seems to be shown by POWs of the Vietnam War. Many say the only reason they survived is because of the indoctrination they received. MO is that they learned the psychopath whether they realize it or not.

 

[Tigersoap]

On this you may consider the story of Pierre Chanal

"A French commando-trained army veteran and fitness fanatic suspected of being a sadistic serial killer may never face trial because interminable delays in the case. Investigators believe that 52-year-old Pierre Chanal -- described by comrades as "an archetypal warrior and man of steel" -- murdered eight young men in the 1980s...."

A brief timeline in English here : http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/C/CHANAL_pierre.php
In more details in French here : http://www.affaires-criminelles.com/dossier_5-1.php

Pierre Chanal is first condemned in 1990 for the kidnapping and rape of only one victim (who survived.)
In 1995 he is released.
In 1999 some new proofs point to his culpability in the murder of the young military men.
In 2001 he is sent back to prison
In 2003 while in prison, he commits suicide while awaiting for his trial.

The army seemed to have done everything in it's power to delay any investigations and refused to consider the possibillity of a psychopath amongst them.
Although there are no direct proofs that the military covered up Pierre Chanal, the families of the victim are convinced of this.

 

[Magus]

The Magus Bid Greetings to You All, Good Forumites, from the Swamps of Eugnosia

Paul Craig Roberts asks "Why didn’t Powell do the right thing? His own reputation would have been forever secure as a man of integrity. Why did he sacrifice his integrity to the crooked scheme of his commander in chief?"

The Magus has read years ago, in verified accounts: General Powell ordered the extermination of some 10,000 Iraqi prisoners of war who'd officially surrendered under proper Geneva Convention rules, near the border with Kuwait, in the very last days of Gulf War I. 'Twould seem they were deemed too much trouble to take, too much hassle to keep, sort out, arrest or release. And so they were strafed and bombed to bits, with no notice provided to those who flew that the ones below were not fighting but subdued.

If not entirely psyhcophagic/psychopathic himself, Colin Powell may quite possibly be a sociopathic/characteropathic individual. That he could and would lie to the UN and the world at large, for the sake of pleasing the hard core psychophages above him in the hierarchical, ponerological structure of the Bush administration, is entirely consistent with this. It is certainly no great crime after that done on the sands of Iraq, near Kuwait, in that long past year of 1991.

But that sort of lying would also, as well as the massacre of Iraqi soldiers, be entirely consistent with another and profoundly, truly tragic possibility. This is that he started out as a normative human being, and fell under the influences of the ponerological spellbinding of the Straussian neocons and Zionist warmongers. He may have been, lo these years long and deep, in a state of transpersonification, an Evil enthrallment in Truth, with and to the psychophagic movers and shakers of the entire "neocon" ponerological association. Such a state in the thoroughly spellbound can last for as many years as they remian in close contact with their spellbinding psychophagic "friends." For a good many years indeed, in poor Colins' life, if this is his case.

And, if this be in Truth his case, which may be most probable in view of his reputation for extremely honorable conduct and integrity in his earlier military career, then it is only since his retirement, since his replacement as Secrectary of State, that has he returned long enough and well enough to the company and influence of normative humanity to now have begun coming out of the spell that had been bound upon and in his mind and soul.

If, oh if, good reader friends, this latter IS the case, then the possibility of Mr. Powell's committing suicide in the weeks and months to come will grow exponentially with the growth of his awareness of just what kinds of crimes against humanity he himself has done and what greater and worse ones still he has enabled to transpire.

Beware, good friends, of words that charm, that dull the conscience, hush alarms.
Beware of persons most assured, those never wrong and loudly heard.
Beware the subtle spells they'll weave, to cause you doubts, win your belief.
Beware the glamours they'll extoll, the glories they'll swear you will hold.
Beware the guiles that suck folks in: They always cost the Soul, good friends.
The psychopahges' foul domain demands that price to enter in.

Good Journeying and True Seeing to All,
Magus

 

[Mike]

I hadn't heard about him ordering "the extermination of some 10,000 Iraqi prisoners of war who'd officially surrendered," but had heard of his connections to the Mai Lai massacre during Vietnam.
http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20010514&s=corn20010502
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id803/pg1/
Please let me know where I might find this information. I did some searching and didn't come across anything specific. (understand it was years ago)

Hard to tell what his character is - "If not entirely psyhcophagic/psychopathic himself, Colin Powell may quite possibly be a sociopathic/characteropathic individual."

Perhaps he was already starting down the road of becoming a sociopathic/characteropathic individual back in Vietnam by protecting the instituations he served and compromising his soul per se. Perhaps many times given a choice to do something that was in the category of Right vs Wrong and the Specific Situation he used the excuses of completing the mission, protecting the Army or specific instution, protecting superiors, doing the superiors bidding to justify his actions to himself. This type of justification (The ends justify the means type - which is very prevalent in the military, since a person is given a mission and told to get it done and where strange loyalties form) possibly became his crutch to continue - maybe he thought he was working for the greatest good. A person can convince themself that their intent is for the greatests good while performing or covering up the most horrific acts because of this way of thinking. The strange loyalties to an institution (Army/Gov't or ideology) forms and a person can be blinded by this. Perhaps he was blinded. I think of it as becoming Institutionalized or a phrase "Drinking the Kool-Aid."

What does drinking the Kool-Aid mean today? It signifies that the person in question has given up personal integrity and has succumbed to the prevailing group-think that typifies policymaking today. This person has become "part of the problem, not part of the solution."

If he is finally free of the "Institution" or "state of transpersonification" and is feeling the weight of the decisions that he has made where he compromised ("coming out of the spell") and now realizes his mistakes then you may be right about the possibility of committing suicide. His mind may fold on itself and he may see no other option.
Mike

 

[domi]

Bear,

The book "On Killing" by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman will answer quite a few of the questions that you pose.
It's worth reading even though it's not easy to get through because of the subject matter.

Domi.