Was "Gallic wars" a text similar to the Odyssey - so, describing the Younger Dryas cataclysms?

[axj]

I don't know if you used AI but it looks like one of those formatted answers that the AI usually provides.

Really? I read in Firestone's book about the maps you provided and summarized what he says in my own words.

Your crusade against AI use also seems to be misplaced. It is just a tool that can be used for positive or negative purposes, same as the Internet.

That Caesar was specifically speaking about the Younger Dryas events appeared to be the most relevant hypothesis.

You have given no good reason why this would be the most relevant hypothesis. It is a very unlikely theory at best.

I see; you would expect Homer to tell you that Odysseus was a fictional character and that the book is about the comets during the YD?

The Odyssey was an oral narrative that was passed down for a long time before being written down. So the possibility of ancient events being talked about there is much higher than Caesar writing about a war he just concluded.

 

[palestine]

You have given no good reason why this would be the most relevant hypothesis. It is a very unlikely theory at best

I feel... that if you did not find interest in the various points that I mentioned, I don't have to expand more. No, really, when reading your post, I feel kind of compelled to answer, or that I owe you something, an answer or something. I don't, at this stage.

 

[Jtucker]

I feel... that if you did not find interest in the various points that I mentioned, I don't have to expand more. No, really, when reading your post, I feel kind of compelled to answer, or that I owe you something, an answer or something. I don't, at this stage.

The C's have confirmed that Caesar wrote "The Conquest of Gaul" and also commented on the context of the embellishments that Laura suspected. I've gone through the book twice and tried my best to locate the geography and topography Caesar describes. With a bit of work, it seems obvious to me that he is describing actual people and actual locations he encountered. Cross-referencing his descriptions with modern stratigraphy and archaeology has come up with a number of confirmations as to the historicity of the events.

The Gallic Wars were very important geopolitical events that changed Caesar's role in the Republic and ultimately led to his legendary, or even mythical status. What he pulled off in some of those battles is unbelievable.

Caesar seems to me to be very located in the hear and now in his world, granted with some strong esoteric knowledge. I think it's unlikely that he would concern himself withe the Younger Dryas Impact Event thousands of years before. If the language of the Odyssey was very old by the time it was written down, it's likely that it was based upon a pericope style long lost. The original references probably made sense and told a clear story of locales and meaning, but were long lost by the time they were written down.

Deciphering exact locations and cultures is really hard. Randall Carlson's work may get the closest to deciphering what likely happened then. The source reference points for texts we still have in existence today, is a wild puzzle.

 

[Moine]

So, I see a novel inquiry ... I guess I'll just post here what I otherwise intended to drop on the Odyssey thread...

However I'm generally curious as to what brought about this blade of inquiry?

With or without that, I'll offer my thoughts as to why I'm looking at a completely overlooked, or unnoticed perspective on these things, perhaps? That perspective being esoteric in origin, purpose, and destination.

--------------------

Fundamentally, there are three issues which deride the basis of any superficial investigation into this matter:

Fore-mostly, there is the basis of historiography, or in plain English -- where is all the supporting documentation and evidence, i.e: letters, tax bills, censuses, economic and industrial paraphernalia, and generally all of the dead bodies that were either left on a field, or in some shallow grave? The surviving literature on not only this matter, but around the general period, was essentially lost for "a thousand years", and only made its way back into the miserly cognition of western awareness through the scholarly efforts of the Byzantines and Islamics, via al-Andalus, in the early medieval period, and subsequently through the learned patronage that funded many treatises and translations of whatever else managed to survive, through the Renaissance and into the Enlightenment+ . For the most part it is honestly difficult to take tangibly, as scant literature/records, ruins, and other issues, make the entire tradition more dead than alive, if it ever were.

Axiomatically, there is the issue of lexicography, or -- what do the terms in the original documents actually convey, not only in meaning, but also of location, of personage, of character and especially of virtue or vice? Does the term Gaul confer to the general confines of Western Europe, to the tribe of courageous and oftentimes barbaric Keltoi, to a materialistic disposition, if not predilection, of one's behavior, or should I even dare say, to graven spiritual failures inherent not only individually, but also generally to the point of the whole term being typified into polemic usage? What of the nature of Rome, or a Roman, perhaps?

And Principally, there is the notion of interpretation. Gurdjieff noted the three strata of human awareness, as noted by P.D. Ouspensky in his book In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching...

You have the exoteric, who interpret things literally -- cataclysms, journeys, wars, plagues are exactly that, in every instance of iteration, from the mythical, to the news-worthy. Then you have the mesoteric, who intuit fractal and cascading relationships between such things, and others. Finally you have the esoteric, who utilize the same language and terminologies, but for different things. At times, you may find very good writers and translators of such things, who may impart to you the exact meaning of some interesting concept, with which those accurate definitions/translations transcend all three levels of awareness. But you won't exactly know what you're reading, or what is being conveyed, esoterically, since this last piece involves a different sort of appreciation...

Beyond these three issues of superficial investigation, when in consideration of the three layers of human strata, a curious individual may find that you, @palestine, may be standing on extremely firm bedrock, if you would only slightly reconsider your current understanding of the mythos of the C's Experiment. I will point you in the direction of a few readings.

The first is within the bounds of that classicist known as Thomas Taylor [Thomas Taylor (Tr. & Comm.). The Wanderings of Ulysses. Appendix in: Select Works of Porphyry. (1st ed. 1823); Frome: The Prometheus Trust, 1999 (2nd ed.), Vol. II of “The Thomas Taylor Series,” pp. 201-24]. His elucidation of the Odyssey, in light of Greek mythological and linguistic tradition, is something to consider, in my opinion.

The second is within the bounds of another, yet un-renown, classicist known as James Pryse. His interpretation(s) of the whole Christianity thing, in relation to the above, is not to be avoided, particularly his magnum opus, The Apocalypse unsealed : being an esoteric interpretation of the initiation of Iôannês (Apokalypsis Iōannou) commonly called the Revelation of (St.) John.

Somewhere between those two noted works, thematically, likely lies the fable, which was likely inspired by something, somewhere, in the forgotten annals of whatever happened long ago. While Pryse may offer a compendium of errata, regarding the peculiarities of what he writes in his extant works, whatever is still yet intangible to the modern reader, may be discernible through a related author who was around that era, who was somewhat knowledgeable on such matters and who was able to put it into a modern English for general readership -- that being Dion Fortune, and her work of Sane Occultism.

If there's other questions, then you might be able to find what you're looking for, with the items listed in my signature below -- if not fully, then eventually, I suppose.

 

[palestine]

I've gone through the book twice and tried my best to locate the geography and topography Caesar describes. With a bit of work, it seems obvious to me that he is describing actual people and actual locations he encountered.

I see a not that obvious consequence chain here. A guy describes places, in a book > those are real.

I've gone through the book several times. Honestly: don't you think that something is "off"? I mean - all the military, etc things? At some point, even if the style is okay, it's a bit nauseating. It becomes pointless. I mean this is so obvious that it becomes puzzling.

On the archeology point: several centuries after Caesar, much destruction, Atlantean tech, people dedicated to bury the Christ's legacy. Eh, why not tampering with the archeology? All we've got, from Caesar, is ONE bust. Only one. On the side, numerous things, and coins, etc. I wouldn't be stopping there.

I think it's unlikely that he would concern himself withe the Younger Dryas Impact Event thousands of years before.

I believe that there is room for an STO being, manifesting on the plane, teaching mankind about the big mattering events.

 

[palestine]

So, I see a novel inquiry ... I guess I'll just post here what I otherwise intended to drop on the Odyssey thread...

However I'm generally curious as to what brought about this blade of inquiry?

With or without that, I'll offer my thoughts as to why I'm looking at a completely overlooked, or unnoticed perspective on these things, perhaps? That perspective being esoteric in origin, purpose, and destination.

--------------------

Fundamentally, there are three issues which deride the basis of any superficial investigation into this matter:

Fore-mostly, there is the basis of historiography, or in plain English -- where is all the supporting documentation and evidence, i.e: letters, tax bills, censuses, economic and industrial paraphernalia, and generally all of the dead bodies that were either left on a field, or in some shallow grave? The surviving literature on not only this matter, but around the general period, was essentially lost for "a thousand years", and only made its way back into the miserly cognition of western awareness through the scholarly efforts of the Byzantines and Islamics, via al-Andalus, in the early medieval period, and subsequently through the learned patronage that funded many treatises and translations of whatever else managed to survive, through the Renaissance and into the Enlightenment+ . For the most part it is honestly difficult to take tangibly, as scant literature/records, ruins, and other issues, make the entire tradition more dead than alive, if it ever were.

Axiomatically, there is the issue of lexicography, or -- what do the terms in the original documents actually convey, not only in meaning, but also of location, of personage, of character and especially of virtue or vice? Does the term Gaul confer to the general confines of Western Europe, to the tribe of courageous and oftentimes barbaric Keltoi, to a materialistic disposition, if not predilection, of one's behavior, or should I even dare say, to graven spiritual failures inherent not only individually, but also generally to the point of the whole term being typified into polemic usage? What of the nature of Rome, or a Roman, perhaps?

And Principally, there is the notion of interpretation. Gurdjieff noted the three strata of human awareness, as noted by P.D. Ouspensky in his book In Search of the Miraculous: Fragments of an Unknown Teaching...

You have the exoteric, who interpret things literally -- cataclysms, journeys, wars, plagues are exactly that, in every instance of iteration, from the mythical, to the news-worthy. Then you have the mesoteric, who intuit fractal and cascading relationships between such things, and others. Finally you have the esoteric, who utilize the same language and terminologies, but for different things. At times, you may find very good writers and translators of such things, who may impart to you the exact meaning of some interesting concept, with which those accurate definitions/translations transcend all three levels of awareness. But you won't exactly know what you're reading, or what is being conveyed, esoterically, since this last piece involves a different sort of appreciation...

Beyond these three issues of superficial investigation, when in consideration of the three layers of human strata, a curious individual may find that you, @palestine, may be standing on extremely firm bedrock, if you would only slightly reconsider your current understanding of the mythos of the C's Experiment. I will point you in the direction of a few readings.

The first is within the bounds of that classicist known as Thomas Taylor [Thomas Taylor (Tr. & Comm.). The Wanderings of Ulysses. Appendix in: Select Works of Porphyry. (1st ed. 1823); Frome: The Prometheus Trust, 1999 (2nd ed.), Vol. II of “The Thomas Taylor Series,” pp. 201-24]. His elucidation of the Odyssey, in light of Greek mythological and linguistic tradition, is something to consider, in my opinion.

The second is within the bounds of another, yet un-renown, classicist known as James Pryse. His interpretation(s) of the whole Christianity thing, in relation to the above, is not to be avoided, particularly his magnum opus, The Apocalypse unsealed : being an esoteric interpretation of the initiation of Iôannês (Apokalypsis Iōannou) commonly called the Revelation of (St.) John.

Somewhere between those two noted works, thematically, likely lies the fable, which was likely inspired by something, somewhere, in the forgotten annals of whatever happened long ago. While Pryse may offer a compendium of errata, regarding the peculiarities of what he writes in his extant works, whatever is still yet intangible to the modern reader, may be discernible through a related author who was around that era, who was somewhat knowledgeable on such matters and who was able to put it into a modern English for general readership -- that being Dion Fortune, and her work of Sane Occultism.

If there's other questions, then you might be able to find what you're looking for, with the items listed in my signature below -- if not fully, then eventually, I suppose.

Hello,

Thank you for your kind post.

To answer your question, I was looking for inspiration not long ago, pondering a puzzle without quite grasping its meaning. There was something to unravel, but nothing came clearly to mind. I wasn't even able to formulate what this was all about. Almost without thinking, I picked up my copy of "The Gallic Wars"—because "it's by Caesar", and because there's always sufficient potential for inspiration in a text related to the true Christ. Even if the influence is hidden beneath a few layers, it's technically possible to access, perhaps through prayer, the positive/STO aspect.

And then, during a moment of quiet reflection, without any particular direction in mind, I looked at the maps at the end of the book—the appendices. I saw the map of Alesia, and I thought to myself: what does all this mean? And then, I saw the illustration, which reminded me of a comet that had landed (I posted this image).

I thought to myself, "Hey... why not... If the Odyssey is really a book about the cataclysms of the YD, why not Caesar? And honestly, the battle descriptions are just too prevalent; I think there must be something else being said in this book."

That's what sparked this idea. I hope people won't misunderstand this, because I understand that it's not based on a scientific approach. Some will use this opportunity as a tempting stick. I won't really have a response to that, except something akin to disappointment for taking the easy way out.

Thank you for your ideas and suggested directions, which I find very creative because your approach considers several aspects of reality. There are people who swear by the scientific approach, and I can't claim to be one of them, at least not for my idea (for the moment). Your approach to the myth of the C's is very interesting to me—because you seem to have turned it into a method. It's very interesting, thank you.

I'm at the very beginning: I had an idea, and I'm doing some research on it. I'm sort of in a research and verification phase. As I said, I don't know if it's truly an objective idea. Perhaps not. I've received some rather categorical messages, which clash with a research and verification approach. Reading them, it seems I should abandon this research immediately "because I haven't been able to prove it to them". I'm somehow approaching something from a different angle. I have no other option but to search for it and then pray that it's right!

So I just wanted to present the "preliminary idea", with a few points. I'm more or less at that stage. It seems to me there are many threads where members are trying their hand at hypothetical research. I'm doing the same. I'm not claiming anything at all, for the moment. If people are determined to make me say that I'm asserting things, I don't have time for that, because it's dishonest of them. That's because... I don't know.

Furthermore, there's a whole wave of messages that aren't positive at all. Rather than trying to encourage research, they're taking the opposite approach, which is to shut things down. I think there's a fundamental approach that isn't strictly positive, and that consciously seeks to undermine and stifle effort. That's not how reality works, and I believe it's important to encourage people who are sincerely engaged in this process, while advising them to remain cautious. The attitude of "there's nothing here because you haven't convinced me" is too polarized for me. That's not how we should fundamentally treat others. I find it a bit too present in some messages.

For the moment, I'm trying to compare the texts. I'll look at the texts you suggested. This is because if mythological elements are explained and summarized in relation to the Odyssey, we could use them as a framework for other texts. I observed the principle of the Laurasian myth in a text by Laura. I was already familiar with Mircea Eliade's Myth. If there were indeed a person capable of embodying the original Mythical Archetype, it would be Christ (and less so Homer - unless Homer was, too, an STO incarnate).

I don't think Caesar left us a book explaining how a slingshot works. To then claim that his book deals with comets of the Younger Dryas is, of course, a huge risk. That's why I'm deliberately being vague, detached, cautious, and hypothetical. The number of messages demanding proof is pushing me to present my hypothesis as a confirmed assumption. It's tiresome.

I prefer to keep looking into this topic from time to time, which is what I'm doing now. Maybe I'll find something. Maybe not. In the meantime, I hope the other members will have done the same as me with other topics and that they'll have managed to come up with interesting, insightful ideas, enough material for new books for the forum!

 

[NCfugee]

I see a not that obvious consequence chain here. A guy describes places, in a book > those are real.

I've gone through the book several times. Honestly: don't you think that something is "off"? I mean - all the military, etc things? At some point, even if the style is okay, it's a bit nauseating. It becomes pointless. I mean this is so obvious that it becomes puzzling.

On the archeology point: several centuries after Caesar, much destruction, Atlantean tech, people dedicated to bury the Christ's legacy. Eh, why not tampering with the archeology? All we've got, from Caesar, is ONE bust. Only one. On the side, numerous things, and coins, etc. I wouldn't be stopping there.



I believe that there is room for an STO being, manifesting on the plane, teaching mankind about the big mattering events.

The Gallic Wars wasn't just a literary record of what happened, it was essentially a political text extolling Caesar's genius. The endless details are designed to show how brilliant he was; and he was. Was he a manifested STO being? He liked to think so, at least believing he was the (very distant) son of a goddess.

Maybe I'm over-reaching here, but Caesar didn't exist in a vacuum. I studied Roman History a long time ago under some very learned men who passed on their passion about the Fall of the Republic to many of us students. Admittedly, it's not hard to be fascinated by the titanic power struggles between a handful of brilliant, possibly psychopathic, individuals of whom Caesar was the most brilliant. Over centuries, scholars have dedicated their lives to unearthing the most minor details of Late Republican Rome and so, compared to his contemporaries, we do have extensive physical and documentary evidence pertaining to Caesar.

@Moine does have a point about the possiblity of errors about the Ancient World being mediated through the Arab cultures of the late Dark Ages, but there is enough corroboration through a number of different cultural written sources (Roman, Greek, Arab, Christian), which corroborate in turn with physical evidence, to shore up a coherent and cohesive history of the Late Roman Republic.

As for an esoteric reading of the Gallic Wars... Caesar's latin was famously clear and direct. Esoteric texts from the Roman Republican era are anything but clear and direct and not really Roman, more Greek or Jewish or Egyptian. Thus, attempting to impose a twenty-first century (pseudo-)literary interpretation onto an ancient latin text stretches credibility. Who would he be writing for, as no Roman would read his text as anything but a record of a brilliant military campaign and explicit political propaganda? If we just entertain the thought for just a moment that he was writing for a later audience, surely he would have been more explicit? Well, no, as he was expressly writing for the Senate to show off his military and political genius. That's what mattered to Romans. Military strength and political power, and Caesar excelled at both.

However, Caesar had risen through the Roman Religious ranks to become Pontifex Maximus (High Priest) in his early political career and met Druids in Gaul, so it is possible that he gained a form of esoteric knowledge, but as one of the most patrician of patrician Romans he was brought up to be a philosophical sceptic and to see religion as principally a tool for political control (sound familiar?) of the plebs, and divination and auguries, etc. were the machinery of the State to keep society under control. There is nothing that leads us to believe that the Roman elites would have been concerned with mass extinctions, cometary bombardments or cataclysmic floods, or even knew about them. Even now, the Younger Dryas event remains highly controversial in scientific circles... what could Caesar have done to convince any of his readers to take his 'teaching' seriously? Who would his audience be? Even after years here reading the C's, Laura's books and the posts from other learned forum members, it will take a hell of a lot for you to convince me that the Gallic Wars has an esoteric subtext.

Nevertheless, it's clear that you'll defend your idea tooth and claw, which is your prerogative. Good luck with your research.

 

[axj]

If your theory was that maybe Caesar's writings have deeper meaning that has not been discovered yet (based on him apparently being the main inspiration for the Jesus stories), it would be a much better approach.

Picking a very narrow and random theory that his Gallic wars book talks about past cataclysms and focusing mostly on that seems to be not a very productive or helpful way of doing research.

It is certainly possible to get inspiration to look into something very specific like that - though in that case it seems to be a good idea to do some preliminary research yourself first to see if there are any good, convincing clues or facts supporting this specific idea or theory.

The problem is that otherwise threads like this can become basically noise that is not helpful to anyone and wastes both your and other people's time.

And on the topic of respectful interaction and basic courtesy on the forum, you never apologized or clarified whether you still think that the forum is getting ponerized through AI use so that you had to leave in March. Now you are back and acting as if you never said those things:

Given the too high use of Ai on the forum, chances are that, indeed, the forum is right now undergoing a ponerization process. It cannot be else, otherwise, the ponerology section would be more alive.

There is nothing there, the last post dates 2021 or so, and the most crucial topics are literally forgotten and sunk, there, without any form of follow-up.

As above, so below. This is pretty unfortunate, and I wish you for a good remedy. This has nothing to do with me, and I don't need a crystal ball to foresee that things will just eventually go kaflooey. Emerite members will continue to leave, etc, new bossess will eventually seize power, etc etc

the basic ponerological model.

The result of endorsing AI on a forum intending to cultivate the mind would be the concordant consequence: brain killing. It is reasonable to assume that such work is already in progress - I am sorry that your statement which may have been valid at the time, about me seeing the devil instead of looking in my own mirror, may be off track.

There seems to be an over-reliance on AI around here. Are some members, by occurence, using "forum post generator" / "forum post analysis"? Admins? This would translate with a very quick demise. There have been very unnatural and insane reactions to some of my posts and an absence of reactions from the part of the admins. Such things, if duly considered, would have been deserving an appropriate answer, too. This shows me that something is slipping through the drops.

[...]

At St. Peter, a C will be waiting for you & will require firm & solid explanations & clarifications in regard of this license to go chatgpt. They will re-precise you that they had been warning you not to go, etc etc. I urge you, before I leave, than to proceed to an immediate full ban on everything AI on the forum, in order to get "the brain" back! I am sorry than to leave like that but I face as well the consideration of NOT participating in such an entreprise - because I will get hit. I will now log off. Sorry and good luck

One thing I will point out is that your posts are more understandable now than they were half a year ago, which shows that you have made good progress in that.

 

[palestine]

The Gallic Wars wasn't just a literary record of what happened, it was essentially a political text extolling Caesar's genius. The endless details are designed to show how brilliant he was; and he was. Was he a manifested STO being? He liked to think so, at least believing he was the (very distant) son of a goddess.

Maybe I'm over-reaching here, but Caesar didn't exist in a vacuum. I studied Roman History a long time ago under some very learned men who passed on their passion about the Fall of the Republic to many of us students. Admittedly, it's not hard to be fascinated by the titanic power struggles between a handful of brilliant, possibly psychopathic, individuals of whom Caesar was the most brilliant. Over centuries, scholars have dedicated their lives to unearthing the most minor details of Late Republican Rome and so, compared to his contemporaries, we do have extensive physical and documentary evidence pertaining to Caesar.

@Moine does have a point about the possiblity of errors about the Ancient World being mediated through the Arab cultures of the late Dark Ages, but there is enough corroboration through a number of different cultural written sources (Roman, Greek, Arab, Christian), which corroborate in turn with physical evidence, to shore up a coherent and cohesive history of the Late Roman Republic.

As for an esoteric reading of the Gallic Wars... Caesar's latin was famously clear and direct. Esoteric texts from the Roman Republican era are anything but clear and direct and not really Roman, more Greek or Jewish or Egyptian. Thus, attempting to impose a twenty-first century (pseudo-)literary interpretation onto an ancient latin text stretches credibility. Who would he be writing for, as no Roman would read his text as anything but a record of a brilliant military campaign and explicit political propaganda? If we just entertain the thought for just a moment that he was writing for a later audience, surely he would have been more explicit? Well, no, as he was expressly writing for the Senate to show off his military and political genius. That's what mattered to Romans. Military strength and political power, and Caesar excelled at both.

However, Caesar had risen through the Roman Religious ranks to become Pontifex Maximus (High Priest) in his early political career and met Druids in Gaul, so it is possible that he gained a form of esoteric knowledge, but as one of the most patrician of patrician Romans he was brought up to be a philosophical sceptic and to see religion as principally a tool for political control (sound familiar?) of the plebs, and divination and auguries, etc. were the machinery of the State to keep society under control. There is nothing that leads us to believe that the Roman elites would have been concerned with mass extinctions, cometary bombardments or cataclysmic floods, or even knew about them. Even now, the Younger Dryas event remains highly controversial in scientific circles... what could Caesar have done to convince any of his readers to take his 'teaching' seriously? Who would his audience be? Even after years here reading the C's, Laura's books and the posts from other learned forum members, it will take a hell of a lot for you to convince me that the Gallic Wars has an esoteric subtext.

Nevertheless, it's clear that you'll defend your idea tooth and claw, which is your prerogative. Good luck with your research.

Hello,

Yes, I see you raise (among other things) an interesting question, which is that of Caesar's consciousness in light of what the C's have revealed to us. Did he know? Was he aware? I think so, because I would say that an incarnation of Christ would imply this knowledge. But that's just a subjective hypothesis on my part.

You've raised some interesting points. Thank you. I think I'll study the books @Moine suggested before posting further.

@axj mentioned that the pirate episode came from Plutarch. I also need to look into his writings. I did some research and found Parallel Lives, in 7 volumes. It doesn't bode well for its authenticity. I've already looked at "those major series," and there's a lot of tampering in them. Dio Cassius, History of the Jewish War against the Romans, etc. There's also a series called "History of Constantinople." At first glance, when you see these books, with their medieval typography, you think they're valuable. Something I've noticed is that all these chronicles seem to have appeared in the 1800s. When I saw Plutarch, I thought, "Oh, the same old thing."

Thank you for your comment.

 

[palestine]

If your theory was that maybe Caesar's writings have deeper meaning that has not been discovered yet (based on him apparently being the main inspiration for the Jesus stories), it would be a much better approach.

Picking a very narrow and random theory that his Gallic wars book talks about past cataclysms and focusing mostly on that seems to be not a very productive or helpful way of doing research.

It is certainly possible to get inspiration to look into something very specific like that - though in that case it seems to be a good idea to do some preliminary research yourself first to see if there are any good, convincing clues or facts supporting this specific idea or theory.

The problem is that otherwise threads like this can become basically noise that is not helpful to anyone and wastes both your and other people's time.

And on the topic of respectful interaction and basic courtesy on the forum, you never apologized or clarified whether you still think that the forum is getting ponerized through AI use so that you had to leave in March. Now you are back and acting as if you never said those things:




One thing I will point out is that your posts are more understandable now than they were half a year ago, which shows that you have made good progress in that.

Yes, I think the question I could raise is whether there's steganography in the Gallic Wars.

After some thought, my thread has received so little attention that I'll do what external consideration requests. If what I'm saying is correct, it will be discovered one day. Perhaps it can wait. In any case, it doesn't seem to fit the forum, because otherwise I would have encountered different comments. Even if I am right, even if I am wrong, the echo is too weak.

Yes, about AI... I think it's an important topic that shouldn't be overlooked. Contact with an stuff that lies in the first place can lead to familiarization with lying. From there, to tolerance of lying, and then to its license, the path is risky. It's difficult for a sensitive mind to overcome these kinds of things. One day you wake up and lying will not seem as forbidden that it was previously.

I think that as long as AI is used, there will be some degree of ponerization, of course. It's inevitable if there's a pathological component to AI use.

Honestly, we don't need AI. We on the forum are quite capable of thinking and discovering things on our own. That's what's most good about it, after all. Developing an organ to channel C's represents the pinnacle of spiritual—and intellectual—use.

Perhaps we could establish a rule requiring users to specify if AI was involved.

Your previous post really made me think of AI, so I'm sorry if that wasn't the case. Look, I don't mean to disrespect anyone who uses AI for anything. But from my perspective, I see it as a VISA card—you get the idea. Like consuming sugar, associating with criminals, and so on. I believe it should be banned, out of respect for knowledge and spirituality.

I find that it goes against the forum's core values, which is why if I have to say anything about it, it won't be a half-measure, a soothing balm.

Furthermore, I think the conclusions the AI provides are things we could easily reach ourselves. It would take more time, that's for sure. The AI draws from the mainstream database. I don't think there's anything truly transcendent—or potentially transcendent, in addition. Could cross references, etc - but for the nitty gritty, well, we would have to tap outside of the main stream database.

If people want to use it, well, that's their choice and their freedom. But I don't see any real progress thanks to the AI. There haven't been any major discoveries since its use—and the real work is still done by hand, with a notebook.

I can accept and understand that you don't share my opinion.

But seriously, you don't think using AI poses any pathological risks? You were offended by my comments, so I apologize for that. It was more to warn people. Seriously though—I don't think the C's would be all smiles if they found out we were using AI. The old sessions show some hard-line minds. I noticed you're a former member. Me too. Back then, things were really straight on the forum, and education was tough. I don't think we could have raised the issue of cell phones without encountering opposition. Talking about AI or its use back then? Just imagine!

So I wanted to try and remind members of the "it's not on the list" ethos. In my opinion, this AI thing is something to be treated with fire. I've stuck to certain "values." The "anart" spirit? There are definitely some things that shouldn't be taken lightly. I hope that this won't marginalize too much and that this will not be a motion to pull me out, because it's not going according to the consensus.

 

[axj]

Yes, about AI... I think it's an important topic that shouldn't be overlooked. Contact with an stuff that lies in the first place can lead to familiarization with lying.

As Laura's experiment with Grok has shown, AI can also be used to reveal the truth. There are of course risks as in overrelying on AI and not noticing its biases or the errors it makes. But to say that AI "always lies" is not the truth either.

As an example, the Deepseek AI is very good at making complex orbital calculations (and checking them several times) which were very helpful to identify the path of the brown dwarf companion. It calculated when the brown dwarf entered and exited the heliosphere and agreed that this coincides quite exactly with the solar minima.

AI is certainly used for nefarious purposes too, just like the Internet in general or even simple tools like kitchen knives. What you do with it is up to you, the tool itself is neither good or bad without the context of how it is used.

 

[palestine]

Hello,

I would like to post the results of my research on Caesar's text ‘The Gallic Wars’. For those who have not read this thread, the idea is simple and can be summarised as follows:
‘Does Caesar's text proceed like the Odyssey, i.e. does it recount episodes of (past) cataclysms?’

(This process is called steganography and consists of concealing "content" within "visible content").

I initially explored several avenues, basing my work mainly on the following elements:

• The feeling that The Gallic War is very descriptive, an endless succession of pitched battles, troops, walls, etc. At one point, it becomes really very strange.
• Not really a correspondence with Paul's Caesar, the Caesar of the C's
• Why would Christ have given us a military manual?

So.

I noted all the sentences that mentioned ‘stones’, with the idea that the Gallic Wars, like the Odyssey, could be referring to comets in certain descriptions (stones).

I did the same in the Odyssey. The reader will find these two lists of stones in my old posts (I'm sorry because the code didn't work properly. They are in plain text somewhere just after the errata).

In both works, there are about twenty episodes involving stones. Some are thrown at people (green below), others are descriptions of rocks by the sea (pink below):

Homer on the left, 24 "books", and many "verses".
I divided by ten, so as to be able to get a visual of the structure of the book. "Verse 120" becomes "verse 12"

Caesar on the right, 8 "books", but organized in "chapters". This was easier to build. Chapter I. chapter II. etc.

I wanted to see if there was already a match with a visual. The episodes with green stones are not horizontal matches (in my opinion).

So I compared the two texts, and the narratives.

With a little time and research, I managed to identify some possible matches:

Left column: Homer
Right column: Caesar

The two narratives present similarities for these books, and I summarise this briefly in separate posts, just after this one.

I noticed that there is a recurring gap: observe the last comparison, book 25 and book 5. There is a spacing of six lines. It is always the same, and that is what allowed me to stick the columns together.

I will now post the comparisons and let you judge the quality for yourselves.

In my experience, this kind of work works for certain texts. I have had success with The Gallic War and Gregory of Tours, for example. The History of the Franks contains excessive copying and pasting from The Gallic War (and also from The Civil War).

I wanted to see if I could detect any traces in the narratives, i.e. in the Odyssey + Caesar. As a research principle, since I have already had success in another context (which is not so different after all).

What I can say is that when you do this kind of copying and pasting, there is a pitfall that is always present: the narrative will show similarities that we will be tempted to point out as such, even though this is not objective.

I will therefore not claim that what you are about to read is objective. I may have lost myself in narrative correspondences that are not actually there.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[palestine]

HOMER – « The Odyssey »	Caesar - « Commentaries on the Gallic war »
Book 9	Book 1
"Ha, strangers, who are you? Where do you come from, sailing the watery ways? Are you upon some business? Or do you rove at random, as the pirates roam the seas, risking their lives and bringing ill to strangers ?"	What [said he] does [Caesar] desire? - why come into his [Ariovistus] domains? - that this was his province of Gaul, just as that is ours. As it ought not to be pardoned in him, if ho were to make an attack upon our territories; so, likewise, that we were unjust, to obstruct him in his prerogative.
As he thus spoke, our very souls were crushed within us, dismayed by the heavy voice and by the monster’s self	He must feel suspicious, that Caesar, though feigning friendship
But chancing here, we come before your knees to ask that you will offer hospitality, and in other ways as well will give the gift which is the stranger’s due	he had assurance of that from themselves through their messengers, and could purchase the favor and the friendship of them all by his [Caesar's] death. But if he would depart and resign to him the free possession of Gaul, he would recompense him with a great reward, and would bring to a close whatever wars he wished to be carried on, without any trouble or risk to him.
But tell me where you left your stanch ship at your coming. At the far shore, or near? Let me but know." "He thought to tempt me, but he could not cheat a knowing man like me; and I again replied with words of guile :	Many things were stated by Caesar to the effect [to show]; "why he could not waive the business, and that neither his nor the Roman people's practice would suffer him to abandon most meritorious allies, nor did he deem that Gaul belonged to Ariovistus rather than to the Roman people;
"So I spoke, and he was angered in his heart the more ; and tearing off the top of a high hill, he flung it at us. It fell before the dark-bowed ship a little space, but failed to reach the rudder’s tip. The sea surged underneath the stene as it came down, and swiftly toward the land the wash of water swept us, like a flood-tide from the deep, and forced us back to shore.	The cavalry of Ariovistus were approaching nearer the mound, and were riding up to our men, and casting stones and weapons at them
When we had traversed twice the distance on the sea, again to the Cyclops would I call; but my men, gathering round, sought with soft words to stay me, each in his separate wise:"Oh reckless man, why seek to vex this savage, who even now, hurling his missile in the deep, drove the ship back to shore? We verily thought that we were lost. And had he heard a man make but a sound or speak, he would have crushed our heads and our ships’ beams, by hurling jagged granite stone ; for he can throw so far." "So they spoke, but did not move my daring spirit; again I called aloud out of an angry heart: "Cyclops, if ever mortal man asks you the story of the ugly blinding of your eye, say that Odysseus made you blind, the spoiler of cities, Laértes’ son, whose home is Ithaca."	under the sanction of a conference. When it was spread abroad among the common soldiery with what haughtiness Ariovistus had behaved at the conference, a much greater alacrity and eagerness for battle was infused into our army
and with a groan he answered: ‘ Ah,surely now the ancient oracles are come upon me!Here once a prophet lived, a prophet brave and tall, Telemus, son of Eurymus, who by his prophecies obtained renown and in vrophetic works grew old among the Cyclops. He told me it should come to pass in aftertime that I should lose my sight by means of one Odysseus ; but I was always watching for the coming of some tall and comely person, arrayed in mighty power;and now a little miserable feeblecreatureblinded me of my eye, overcoming me with wine.Nevertheless, comehere, Odysseus, and let me givethe stranger’s gift, and beg the famous Land-shaker to aid you on your way.	Ariovistus sends ambassadors to Caesar, to state "that he wished to treat with him about those things which had been begun to be treated of between them, but had not been concluded " [and to beg] that « he would either again appoint a day for a conference »

 

[palestine]

HOMER – « The Odyssey »	Caesar - « Commentaries on the Gallic war »
Book 10	Book 2
So I sent sailors forth to go and learn what men who live by bread dwelt in the land	When Caesar inquired of them what states were in arms, how powerful they were, and what they could do in war, he received the following information: that the greater part of the Belgae were sprung from the Germans,
Before the town they met a maiden drawing water, the stately daughter of the Laestrygonian Antiphates. She had come down to the clear-flowing fountain of Artacia, from which they used to fetch the water for the town.	having crossed the Rhine at an early period, they had settled there, on account of the fertility of the country and had driven out the Gauls who inhabited those regions
who was the king of the folk here and whom he ruled	their king at present was Galba
Forthwith she called from the assembly noble Anti- phates, her husband, who sought to bring upon my men a miserable end. Straight seizing one, he made his meal of him;	the Nervii, who are reckoned the most warlike among them
the two others, dashing off,	After he perceived that all the forces of the Belgae, which had been collected in one place, were approaching towards him, and learnt from the scouts whom he had sent out, and [also] from the Remi, that they were not then far distant, he hastened to lead his army over the Aisne, which is on the borders of the Remi, and there pitched his camp.
came flying to the ships.	This position fortified one side of his camp by the banks of the river, rendered the country which lay in his rear secure from the enemy
hearing it,the mighty Laestrygonians gathered from here and there, seeming not men but giants. Then from the rocks they hurled down ponderous stones;	the Belgae on their march began to attack with great vigour. [The assault] was with difficulty sustained for that day. The Gauls' mode of besieging is the same as that of the Belgae: when after having drawn a large number of men around the whole of the fortifications, stones have begun to be cast against the wall on all sides, and the wall has been stript of its defenders
and soon among the ships arose a dreadful din of dying men and crashing ships. As men spear fish, they gathered in their loathsome meal. But while they slaughtered these in the deep harbor, I drew my sharp sword from my thigh and cut the cables of my dark-bowed ship; ; and quickly inspiriting my men, I bade them fall to their oars, that we might flee from danger.	unless assistance were sent to him he could not hold out any longer
Landing, we lay two days and nights, gnawing our hearts because of toil and Trouble;	That matter beinq determined on marching out of their camp at the second watch
I took my spear and my sharp sword, and from the ship walked briskly up to a place of distant view, hoping to see some work of man or catch some voice. So climbing up, I took my stand on a rugged point of outlook, and smoke appeared rising from open ground at Circe’s dwelling,	each sought for himself the foremost place in the journey, and hastened to reach home
Then for a time I doubted in my mind and heart whether to go	Caesar, immediately learning this through his scouts, [but] fearing an ambuscade,
A high-horned deer into my very path. From feeding in the wood he came to the stream to drink, for the sun’s power oppressed him. As he stepped out, I struck him in the spine midway along the back; the bronze spear pierced him through; ... So with him upon my back ... upon my shoulder	These, attacking their rear, and pursuing them for many miles, slew a great number of them as they were fleeing; while those in the rear
We shall not, friends, however sad, go to the halls of Hades until our destined day. But while there still is food and drink in the swift ship, let us attend to eating and not waste away with hunger.’	they appeared to be removed from danger, and were not restrained by any necessity ... rested their safety in flight.
all throughout the day till setting sun we sat and feasted on abundant meat and pleasant wine;	our men killed as great a number of them as the length of the day allowed ; and at sunset
Then as the early rosy-fingered dawn appeared, holding a council, I said to all my men: "My suffering comrades, hearken to my words: for since, my friends, we do not know the place of dusk or dawn, the place at which the beaming sun goes under ground nor where he rises, let us at once consider if a wise course is left. I do not think there is; for I saw, on climbing to a rugged outlook, an island which the boundless deep encircles like a crown. Low in the sea it lies; midway across, I saw a smoke through some oak thickets and a wood." As I thus spoke, their very souls were crushed within them, remembering the deeds of Laestrygonian Antiphates and the cruelty of the daring Cyclops, the devourer of men. They cried aloud and let the big tears fall;	On the day following, before the enemy could recover from their terror and flight

 

[palestine]

HOMER – « The Odyssey »	Caesar - « Commentaries on the Gallic war »
Book 14	Book 3
But now the ever-barking dogs suddenly spied Odysseus, and baying rushed upon him; whereat Odysseus calmly sat down and from his hand let fall his Staff.	the enemy, upon the signal being given, rashed down [upon our men] from all parts, and discharged stones and darts upon our rampart. Our men at first, while their strength was fresh, resisted bravely, nor did they cast any weapon inefiectually from their higher station. As soon as any part of the camp, being destitute of defenders, seemed to be hard pressed, thither they ran, and brought assistance. But they were over-matched in this, ... none of which things could be done by our men, owing to the smallness of their number; … not even to the wounded [ras hberty granted] to quit the post where he had been stationed
Yet here at his own farm he would have come to cruel grief, had not the swineherd, springing swiftly after, dashed from the door and from his hand let fall the leather.	the matter was now brought to the last extremity, P. Sextius Baculus, a centurion of the first rank, whom we have related to have been disabled by severe wounds in the engage- ment with the Nervii, and also C. Volusenus, a tribune of the soldiers, a man of great skill and valour, hasten to Galba, and assure him that the only hope of safety lay in making a sally, and trying the last resource.
Scolding the dogs, he drove them off this way and that with showers of stones,	assembling the centurions, he quickly gives orders to the soldiers to discontinue the fight a short time, and only collect the weapons flung [at them], and recruit themselves after their fatigue, and afterwards, upon the signal
So saying, to the lodge the noble swineherd led the Way,	remembered that he had come into winter quarters
where droves of pigs were penned. Selecting two, he brought them in and killed them both, singed them and sliced them and stuck them on the spits, and roasting carried all the meat to offer to Odysseus, hot on the spits themselves.	having the next day burned all the buildings
So saying, he rose and placed a bed beside the fire, and threw upon it skins of sheep and goats. On this Odysseus laid him down	he brought the legion safe
and over him Eumaeus threw a great shaggy coat which lay at hand as extra clothing, to put on when there came a bitter storm.	thence into [that of] the Allo- broges, and there wintered.
So here Odysseus slept	a state of tranquility
and by his side the young men slept, but not the swineherd. A bed here pleased him not, thus parted from his swine, but he prepared to venture forth.	he had, therefore, in the beginning of winter, set out for lUyricum,
Glad was Odysseus that Kumaeus took such care of his estate while he was gone.	as he wished to visit those nations, and acquire a knowledge of their countries
And first Eumaeus slung a sharp-edged sword about his sturdy shoulders, put on his storm-proof shaggy coat, picked up the fleece of a large full-grown goat, took a sharp spear to keep off dogs and men, and went away to rest where lay the white-toothed swine under a hollow rock, sheltered from Boreas.	had taken up his winter quarters with the seventh legion among the Andes, who border upon the [Atlantic] ocean