Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

Laura

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In another thread, recently, I spoke about our visit to Croatia and a lunch we had with Croatian members of the forum and FOTCM. At that meeting, I discussed some ideas I'd been having that I intended to include in the next volume of Secret History, to wit, the growing conviction I felt that Julius Caesar was the figure around whom the Jesus legend was wrapped.

I had come to this idea simply by reading numerous perspectives on the history of Caesar. I didn't start out thinking it, it just emerged of its own by the assembling of the data. I was naturally a bit nonplussed by this because it does sound sort of crazy, right?

Well, I've discovered that I am not the only one who has come to this idea. In a way, that's a bit of a disappointment because I was going to assemble the proofs and make the case. In another way, it is reassuring that I'm not the only one who has seen the parallels.

So, you don't have to wait for my book to explore this idea. Have a look:

http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/jwc_e/contents.html

http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/articula/Escorial_en.pdf

http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/articula/LiberaliaTuAccusas_en.pdf

http://www.amazon.fr/Jesus-was-Caesar-Julian-Christianity/dp/9059113969/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373194046&sr=8-2&keywords=jesus+was+caesar

Julius Caesar, son of Venus and founder of the Roman Empire, was elevated to status of Imperial God, Divus Julius, after his violent death. The cult that surrounded him dissolved as Christianity surfaced. The cult surrounding Jesus Christ, son of God and originator of Christianity, appeared during the second century. Early historians, however, never mentioned Jesus and even now there is no actual proof of his existence. On the one hand, an actual historical figure missing his cult; on the other, a cult missing its actual historical figure. Jesus Was Caesar examines these intriguing mirror images. Is Jesus Christ really the historical manifestation of Divus Julius? Are the Gospels built on the life of Caesar, just as the first Christian churches were built on the foundations of antique temples? Corruptions in the copying of texts, misinterpretations in translations and the transformation of iconography from Roman to Christian have been traced to their origins. Are the Gospels a 'mis-telling' of the life of Caesar - from the Rubicon to his assassination - mutated into the narrative of Jesus - from the Jordan to his crucifixion?
From a reviewer:

In the course of history, successful stories have always undergone cultural transformations and adaptations, and poignant historical events have always had far reaching consequences. In the 1950s the German theologian Ethelbert Staufer discovered that the Christian Easter liturgy isn't based on genuine Christian sources, but on the funeral ceremony and passion of Caius Iulius Caesar, the founder of modern civilization. This ceremony is one of the most important events in the history of mankind, for it decided not only on the fate of the Roman Empire, but the fate of Christianity, Europe and the whole world. An improvised funeral service, driven by a wide range of deep emotions from sorrow to love, from remorse to fury, turned into uproar and insurrection, shaped Rome for all times and sealed Caesar's apotheosis to the highest god of the state, Divus Iulius. A few generations later Caesar's stories, among them Asinius Pollio's "Historiae", were still being told, the god Iulius still being worshipped, especially in the Eastern colonies, where many of his veterans had settled after the Civil War. There, in a different cultural context, the story was altered, adapted, incorrectly translated, misinterpretated, supplemented with appropriate passages from the Biblia Iudaica, but nonetheless understood: its core and ethics were preserved, and after the Jewish War Christianity suddenly surfaced and swept into western Rome. Soon afterwards the Julian religion was extinct and forgotten.

In the book "Jesus was Caesar" by linguist and philosopher Francesco Carotta, Ethelbert Staufer's findings are anything but a coincidence, rather a logical result from a historical momentum and from cultural-dynamical phenomena, which Carotta reveals in a scientific tour-de-force rollercoaster ride. "Jesus was Caesar" is a praiseworthy and highly learned work of daring excellence. This is not some borderline esoteric pap, but a gritty and witty report that never loses its scientific seriousness. The reader will embark on a journey into the Roman womb of Christendom, where astounding parallels between the lives of Jesus Christ and Iulius Caesar are revealed. Strange enough, although Carotta finally presents to us the historical Jesus in overwhelming grandezza, orthodox scientists, believers and even atheists hate (and fear) this work, which has been available in other languages since 1999, because it is not a theory at all, but a huge cluster of historical, archeological, numismatic, cultural, theological and linguistic facts and accords. Moreover, "Jesus was Caesar" is the ever first, truly integral design on the origin of Christianity and the roots of the Christ, far beyond the mere myth that is being preached in our churches. As Jesus/Iulius did, this book will eventually change the world...
This part is important because it was what affected me: "a huge cluster of historical, archeological, numismatic, cultural, theological and linguistic facts and accords..."

http://www.amazon.fr/TU-JUDAS-Then-Fall-Jesus/dp/0595328687/ref=sr_1_3?s=english-books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373195352&sr=1-3&keywords=gary+courtney

About two thousand years ago, a great man who was renowned for forgiveness and magnanimity was betrayed and slain by his compatriots who feared he would become their King. To the chagrin of his murderers, he was soon hailed as a God and the momentous events that ensued paved the way for the birth of Christianity.

The venue for this drama, however, was not Jerusalem as might be supposed, but rather the eternal city of Rome. It is a description of the founder of the Roman Empire. In a work stranger than fiction, Gary Courtney propounds that the Jesus of Nazareth that graces the pages of the New Testament is an entirely mythological personage, and presents a step by step explanation of how the beloved Saviour of the Christian religion entered the world from the wings of a stage.
From a reviewer who more or less states some of the ideas I've had about this over the past months:

The betrayal and murder of Caesar bears uncanny parallels to the drama of JC. A religious play - a fabula praetexta - quite probably commemorated the death and apotheosis of the man who would be king. The Caesar cult surely did breath new life into ancient cults of dying/resurrecting godmen. Quite plausibly the Jewish fans of Caesar assimilated the sacrificed 'saviour of mankind' into the 'Suffering Servant' of Isaiah, and rolled the melodrama of the Ides of March into the Passion of the Passover. The gospels, with their curious rhetorical elements, 'comings and goings', and theatrical flourishes, most assuredly read like a play and not history. There's more than coincidence here and we long for these insights to be developed fully.
He then goes on to partly dismiss it suggesting there is way more to wade through. He's right, of course, and I've been doing that with the result that the conviction is only getting stronger.

At least now, I'll be able to cite others in support of the idea.

I will add one note: after doing a ton of reading, I think that it is safe to say that Julius Caesar was THE most extraordinary man in our whole history, bar none.
 

Pashalis

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Well that is one of those things where I immediately catch myself thinking: "can't be true, to crazy".
But then again, there are a lot of things in history that are so horribly deformed, twisted and simply not true, that I wouldn't be all that surprised anymore if there is actually something to it...

I will add one note: after doing a ton of reading, I think that it is safe to say that Julius Caesar was THE most extraordinary man in our whole history, bar none.
Sounds exiting. I'm eager to learn more about that in the next volumes of HOM...
 

Laura

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Pashalis said:
Sounds exiting. I'm eager to learn more about that in the next volumes of HOM...
You don't have to wait to learn about Caesar and draw your own conclusions. There are many books available and, interestingly, books actually written by Caesar himself. I highly recommend them.
 

Zadius Sky

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Wow, I haven't even consider Caesar to be Jesus. That idea wasn't in the realm of possibilities. I grew up "believing" that Caesar was just a bad guy, and no good would come from reading any of his works or about him. When I was studying history in college, I avoided him like a plague.

Well, now I gotta learn. Thanks for the links, Laura. That's the area I'll be diving into now.
 

MK Scarlett

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"Said Jesus: give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what belongs to God" - Marc 12.17
This is the first thing I found (in French) before to explore more on this subject which could be much fascinating than expected... Thank you Laura for the topic!
 

Pashalis

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Found this video documentary about Francesco Carotta and his idea about Jesus being Caesar:

The Gospel of Caesar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwfY069iPVI

Documentary film about a linguist and a Catholic priest, who search for and find the origins of Christianity and the real historical Jesus: Julius Caesar.
Watching now...
 

Gaby

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Pashalis said:
Found this video documentary about Francesco Carotta and his idea about Jesus being Caesar:

The Gospel of Caesar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwfY069iPVI

Documentary film about a linguist and a Catholic priest, who search for and find the origins of Christianity and the real historical Jesus: Julius Caesar.
It is available in Spanish here:

El Evangelio de César
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbxm37qd1ro

Documental sobre la búsqueda de un lingüista y un sacerdote católico que encuentran el origen del Cristianismo y el verdadero Jesucristo histórico: Julio César.

Propiedad intelectual de: Jan van Friesland (productor y director), Francesco Carotta (lingüista) y Pedro García González (sacerdote)
 

neema

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Laura said:
About two thousand years ago, a great man who was renowned for forgiveness and magnanimity was betrayed and slain by his compatriots who feared he would become their King. To the chagrin of his murderers, he was soon hailed as a God and the momentous events that ensued paved the way for the birth of Christianity.
Well that's a very interesting line of thought. Its very fascinating because of the parallels to JFK. Loved THOM, really looking forward to reading the next volume.
 

MK Scarlett

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There also is another book in English:

Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus, Joseph Atwill
http://www.amazon.fr/Caesars-Messiah-Conspiracy-Flavian-Signature/dp/1461096405/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp

And here, an article talking about this book:
Sep 26, 2012
Caesar's Messiah: Rome Invented Jesus, New Doc Claims
http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-09-26/film/caesar-s-messiah-rome-invented-jesus-new-doc-claims/

Those were trying times for Rome. Nero, the last of the Julio-Claudian Caesars and a big spender with a reputedly homicidal temper, was on the throne. Stories abound of how he attempted to poison his mother, kicked one of his wives to death, and personally ordered the upside-down crucifixion of St. Peter. Lies and half-truths, most of those tales, but stuff like that sticks. More important, Nero’s Roman Empire was going broke.

While Rome simmered, Palestine cooked. The Jews loathed the Romans. They didn’t want statues of Roman emperors in their temples, didn’t want to pay taxes to prop up the empire, and, most of all, didn't want Caesar’s emissaries making claims on their promised land. And they were recklessly brave in battle. Hot rebellion was in the air.

Through all that, a loose cannon of a prophet was reportedly roaming through the Judean war zone, preaching pacifism and spouting profundities like, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s.”

That’s the situation, more or less, that Joseph Atwill describes at the beginning of Caesar’s Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus, the new documentary movie based on Atwill’s book of the same name. (The film screens at Laemmle Music Hall 3 staring September 28 and is available for sale at Atwill's website, caesarsmessiah.com.)

The wandering prophet was, of course, Jesus Christ. Atwill, a self-taught biblical scholar, contends that not only was there no historical figure of that name, but also the legends that accumulated around him were actually created by the Romans as a way of pacifying the Jews. The evidence is overwhelming, he says.

The Dead Sea Scrolls, ancient Jewish texts discovered in caves in Israel in 1947, give a different picture than the idyllic first century Holy Land of the Gospels. From year one, there were battles and confrontations between the Romans and the Jews, the Scrolls note, and there was no turning of the other cheek by the likes of rebel leader Judah of Galilee. And there was nary a mention in the Scrolls of the peaceable prophet Jesus Christ.

“This is where I came into Christian scholarship,” says Atwill, 63, an investor who lives by the proceeds of a dot-com sell off in the 1990s. “There was supposedly this character, Jesus, wandering around in Galilee. Nobody knew anything about him. Galilee is only 30 miles long. Jesus and other historical figures of the time would have known each other.”

Atwill, an admittedly bookish man, dived in headfirst, digging out whatever historical records he could find, studying the Scrolls, and reading Roman accounts, notably that of a family member of the Flavian dynasty of Caesars named Josephus. He found no historical Jesus in any of those writings. But there were some uncanny connections between the story of Jesus as told in the Gospels and the family of Roman emperors who took power after Nero was forced to commit suicide following a coup d’état.

The movie spells out an intriguing scenario of creative deception by the Romans: Sometime in the mid 70s AD, Atwill suggests, Greco-Roman intellectuals wrote the now-well-known stories—in Greek, not the popular Aramaic of the Judaic populace—about the Jewish messiah who defied the Judaic traditions of militancy to preach a sweet, accommodationist message. The legends began to take hold in the decades that followed. The illiterate peasants of the time couldn't read them, of course. But preachers preached it—preachers who were given the red-carpet treatment by Roman authorities.

What about all those Christians being fed to the lions in the colosseum? True enough, Atwill says. Only the victims weren’t followers of Jesus but militant Jews who, as believers in a messiah, or christos in Greek, qualified as “Christians” and earned the ire of the Caesars.

Atwill and other scholars maintain that the Romans were ingenious in pulling off the pacifist hoax, so useful to the ruthless men who administered the Roman empire. They were able to “create a type of Judaism that was benign,” says one commentator.

The Romans even got in a plug for the godlike qualities of the bloody Roman general and soon-to-be Caesar Flavius Titus. It was Titus who led the Romans against the Jews in the war of 66 to 73, crushing the towns of Galilee, laying siege to Jerusalem, and ultimately razing the Jewish temple there. Encoded in the Gospels, Atwill contends, are multiple references to Titus, establishing a direct connection between the emperor and Jesus. Reading the Gospels along with Josephus’s Wars of the Jews, the parallels are striking. There are dual encounters, addresses to followers, random incidents, “all these little weird parallels,” Atwill says. They all took place in the same locations, often using the same words, but 40 years apart. Thus, Jesus recruits two fishermen on the shore of the Sea of Galilee and says, “I will make you fishers of men.” At the same spot 40 years later, Josephus describes the Romans in a sea battle, catching rebels from a capsized boat with their spears, like fishermen hooking fish. [...]
And here the video related with. This is a podcast with Joseph Atwill:
Ring of Power - A bit long, but maybe interesting BTW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZYB_IOqeOE
 

Diane

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There's a lot of talk that says the Paul was an agent of Rome. Don't know...just sharing what I've read. Roman emperors appointed all the high priests recorded within the New Testament from a restricted circle of families who were allied to Rome. Caesar Augustus, (Octavius), was the adopted son of maternal great-uncle Gaius Julius Caesar following Caesar's assassination. Some of the most sacerdotal terms for Jesus were attributed to him. The most important being "Son Of God". Julius Caesar and Nero were referred to as "Saviors of the World".

Trying to find a copy but there's something about "The coming of the "Son of God", from the Roman Poet Virgil. It was a poem about Caesar Augustus.

Three divinities have claims to be the god whom Caesar calls Dispater (supreme god) - a god with a hammer, a crouching god called Cernunnos, and a god called Esus – J. A. MacCulloch (The Religion of the Ancient Celts)
So if Caesar believed that Esus was divine...that might just tie in the Druid/pagan stories that are in the bible. So why not write a story about Caesar the God, being the God he so admired? maybe? Did Caesar try to burn down The Library of Alexandria, so he could become God? This question always haunts me.

I know you're not a fan of the author below, but he does have a lot of info about the early Druids.

During their rites, the Druids located a tree in the shape of a cross, or lopped off the branches of a specifically chosen oak to make a cruciform. Upon this tree the name Hesus was usually inscribed. The party of Druids present at the ceremony of Iesa would face Eastward toward the rising of the sun and sing hymns and chant to the newborn Son of the Sun.

The very word east derives from his name. It was only after later mythmongers assimilated the custom and made a travesty of it that a physical man appeared to hang in pain from a tree or was said to have been in the presence of God at a burning bush. The T-shaped tree represented the Tinne and Tau letter of the sacred alphabets, and connoted death and rebirth. The letter “T” served the same meaning as Greek Omega.

Christ, who is associated with this letter, is based on Iesa who was in previous ages associated with the Tau, the hierogram of which was the tree or cross. Jesus is still referred to as Essa in the Koran and was known by that name to both the Arabs and the Copts (Egyptian Christians). In Northern India Iesa is remembered as Issa or Essa. From this word we derive “essence,” “Essene” and “esoteric.” Other versions of the name are Yesu, Hesu, Esus and Aesar meaning “He who creates (or brings) the fire.” The Celtic Heus or Esus was a mysterious god of Gaul.

Tsarion, Michael (2012-02-27). The Irish Origins of Civilization, Volume One
Then there's this...
[/quote]Constantine was the ruling spirit at Nicea and he ultimately decided upon a new god...To involve British factions, he ruled that the name for the great Druid god, Hesus, be joined with the Eastern Savior-god, Krishna (Krishna is Sanskrit for Christ), and then Hesus Krishna would be the official name of the new Roman god – ibid. [/quote]

I think the quote above came from here...
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?gid=70&option=com_docman&task=doc_view
 
Pashalis said:
Found this video documentary about Francesco Carotta and his idea about Jesus being Caesar:

The Gospel of Caesar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwfY069iPVI

Documentary film about a linguist and a Catholic priest, who search for and find the origins of Christianity and the real historical Jesus: Julius Caesar.
Watching now...
I'm watching it now as well. WOW! I was definitely blind-sighted by this one. I don't if anyone else agrees, but it seems to me there are some striking parallels between the Julius Caesar and JFK dramas.
 

Pashalis

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Críostóir said:
Pashalis said:
Found this video documentary about Francesco Carotta and his idea about Jesus being Caesar:

The Gospel of Caesar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwfY069iPVI

Documentary film about a linguist and a Catholic priest, who search for and find the origins of Christianity and the real historical Jesus: Julius Caesar.
Watching now...
I'm watching it now as well. WOW! I was definitely blind-sighted by this one. I don't if anyone else agrees, but it seems to me there are some striking parallels between the Julius Caesar and JFK dramas.
I'm about 35 minutes into it and indeed it is very striking and interesting (to put it mildly!). :shock:
Also the greek connection to what and how things are written in the bible is very intriguing!

Reminds me of what the C's had to say about "who wrote the bible":


Session 7 November 1994 (https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28375.msg353143.html#msg353143):

Q: (L) Why is Appolyon called the "destroyer" in Revelation?

A: Backward for sake of deception. Bible corrupted.

Q: (L) You have often stated that the Bible is corrupted, I would like to know who, exactly, corrupted the Bible and when and how they did this?

A: Illuminati brotherhood for a thousand earth years.

Q: (L) Does this mean that up until a thousand years ago the Bible was fairly accurate?

A: No.

Q: (L) Is there any possibility that the Catholic church had anything to do with this corrupting influence?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Does the Catholic church have in its possession actual original texts of the Bible that have not been corrupted?

A: No.

Q: (L) Were there ever such texts in existence?

A: No.

Q: (L) Who wrote the book of Matthew?

A: Greek enforcers.

Q: (L) What are Greek enforcers?

A: Like your FBI.

Q: (L) Who wrote the book of Mark?

A: Same.

Q: (L) Luke and John?

A: Same?

Q: (L) Acts?

A: Same?

Q: (L) Are any books of the New Testament written by who they claim to be written by?

A: No. Remember this is 70% propaganda.


Q: (L) Is 30% then the truth or the actual teachings?

A: Close. Enough you must decipher from instinct through meditation.
So by judging what the linguists say in the video about the words in the bible and how the orginal greek versions of those words closely resemble the actual storys and words of Caesar, I think we might be looking at a Hit for the C's here...

I think it might be worthwhile to read again what the C's have said about Jesus and the bible in this new light of "Jesus being Caesar".
There might be some valuable fruits to find there...

I'm stunned and a bit baffled that not a whole lot more scholars have noticed those striking parallels of the Jesus story to Caesar's before...
 

Pashalis

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In the video they continue to postulate that the nails in the hands of Jesus on the cross, that are depicted so often, could be the proof that what was actually dipicted there was the wax representation of Caesar that was errected on his funeral! Sounds strange, but it actually makes sence to me!

That could also finally settle down the ongoing debate about the impossibility that jesus or any other real human being was hanging on a cross only supported by nails through his hands and/or feet, if what was being depicted was actually Caesar as a Wax figure on a cross on his funeral....

Also it makes much more sence that the Jesus story and christianity was based on Caesar because I assume he was quite a famous and well known figure back then. That could also explain why the whole Jesus and christianity thing was and is so successful and spread so far and widely...

So if the Jesus story was based on Caesar (wich sounds likely to me at this point :halo:), then it would be interesting who and how it was exactly managed to pull that whole "Jesus scam" and christianity thing out of it...

I get the impression that this is almost impossible to comprehend without taking higher forces into account aka "4d STS" maybe?
 

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Note that Laura is referring to Julius Caesar, not Caesar Augustus (first Emperor, Julius Caesar's (adopted?) nephew). If a source mentions Caesar they mean Caesar Augustus. If they are referring to Julius Caesar they will use both names.
 

Buddy

The Living Force
So, could one of the most closely guarded secrets of all time be that the Roman religious hierarchy knows it is Julius Caesar who is being referred to the whole time people are imagining "Jesus" as Christ? I am already aware of the link between politics and the "Christ" title and that "Jesus" was said to have once reprimanded someone who tried to call him "Christ", and now I think I see a possible validation for the "Two Jesus" hypothesis.

I was studying Elaine Pagels' work for some time. On that basis there is a good case that the Nag Hammadi Library works, the Gospel of Thomas combined with the Gospel of John, all refer to a "Gnostic Jesus" while Matthew, Mark and Luke and all other Bible references refer to a fictional Jesus.

Now I see a possible answer to the question "who does one of the Jesus' represent?"
 
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