Wealthy women that dress and behave like streetwalkers...

[Yupo]

Makes me want to puke too as I have a 16 year old daughter.

Ditto (17 y/o).
Have you looked at the text/story tags on the cover of Cosmopolitan lately? Sometimes I take a Southern Living or something like that and put it in front of those magazines (at the grocery check out line). Sad, sad, sad what they are saying to young women. How to go for self-esteem based on top 20 between the sheets 'tricks' to snag that fellow from the other chicks he has been eyeing. Be his #1! I paraphrase, but you get the idea.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Yupo]Sometimes I take a Southern Living or something like that and put it in front of those magazines (at the grocery check out line).[/quote]

The section of the girl-teen magazines in stores are like Satan's bookshelf I never have read the stuff, but the covers and titles alone are just not healthy to say the least. And there are so many of them

Those magazines are clearly not meant to build up your self-esteem. It’s meant to break it down and guide you to a dark path.

 

[griffin]

[quote author= Yupo]Sometimes I take a Southern Living or something like that and put it in front of those magazines (at the grocery check out line).

The section of the girl-teen magazines in stores are like Satan's bookshelf I never have read the stuff, but the covers and titles alone are just not healthy to say the least. And there are so many of them

Those magazines are clearly not meant to build up your self-esteem. It’s meant to break it down and guide you to a dark path.
[/quote]
Guys (and gals), get a grip. Please, it's 2016 already. The sexual revolution was way back in the '60s and '70s. The CIA ran its projects then involving Hippies, Acid, Laurel Canyon, Rock & Roll, Grateful Dead and so much more, everything in American popular culture for 50-plus years was under control.

As someone has already mentioned in this thread, _http://vigilantcitizen.com/ has this well covered, if you're willing to subscribe to his unique flavor of Masonic Illuminati paranoia. It is an acquired taste.

And a guy named Dave McGowan dug into that and published a website for a few years, but then he died and his articles have been taken offline. However, you can still buy the book (from his estate): _http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/order-books/ .

Lately, a guy named Miles Mathis has been reviewing the depredations of the intelligence services, though his interests are oriented more towards visual arts than popular culture, since he's an artist. His website is: _http://mileswmathis.com/ . I didn't disable that link, because he strikes me as sincere, but if you are going to read his work, just be aware that he's an iconoclast and somewhat of a rebel, and he has some views that might be rather controversial and make some folks very uncomfortable.

But, as I said... get a grip, people. Let me tell you a true story. Maybe it will make sense in the whole.

I attended a very exclusive college in the US Pacific Northwest, partly because I got excellent grades in high school and had near-perfect SAT scores, and partly due to (complicated) family connections.

In my first year at college, the school's radio station published a remarkable calendar. What was so remarkable about it was the cover, which was a photo of a reclining nude female, seen from the rear. It was actually quite innocent, especially by today's standards, but at the time it was seen as "risque".

I won't name the girl who posed for the cover, but several years on, I met her, and she talked me into taking her mountain climbing, because I was accomplished at that and she wanted to go climb things.

At the time, she was working casually as an "exotic dancer", taking $5 tips from drunks in suburban bars for walking around and dancing naked, which didn't bother her, because she was scandinavian!

I figured this out when we drove up a river to a campground 25 miles from town, and she was happy to strip and go swimming naked. I wasn't her boyfriend then, or ever, but she wasn't shy in facing me.

For her, whatever men thought or felt, looking at her body, had nothing to do with her. She took their money, which they freely gave her, and she regarded that exchange as simply a way to pay her rent.

(We tried to climb a couple of things, but didn't. I guess I didn't fully trust her, I don't know. She finally got a couple of science degrees, did some impressive rock climbing. Her climbing partner fell on lead and died, in the Rockies. Maybe somehow I saw that coming decades earlier, when she was with me.)

Everyone (each one of you) is responsible for their own sexuality - and how they (you) express that - but not for that of other people. You are *not* responsible for how Beyonce wraps her flesh in plastic. She is responsible for that, and if she's happy, it's cool. Don't get bent out of shape about other folks.

Love yourself, your family, your friends.

Mod edit: Link disabled

 

[Yupo]

I read some VS stuff. I noticed Dave McGowan's material was taken down. Miles Mathis certainly has some interesting stuff to say. Some is a bit far fetched, but I'll take a look at about anything. He certainly covers a lot of topics.

 

[Alada]

[quote author= Yupo]Sometimes I take a Southern Living or something like that and put it in front of those magazines (at the grocery check out line).

The section of the girl-teen magazines in stores are like Satan's bookshelf I never have read the stuff, but the covers and titles alone are just not healthy to say the least. And there are so many of them

Those magazines are clearly not meant to build up your self-esteem. It’s meant to break it down and guide you to a dark path.

Everyone (each one of you) is responsible for their own sexuality - and how they (you) express that - but not for that of other people. You are *not* responsible for how Beyonce wraps her flesh in plastic. She is responsible for that, and if she's happy, it's cool. Don't get bent out of shape about other folks.
[/quote]

Well maybe the only one getting 'bent out of shape' here is you? Do you see the irony in stating that it's cool for folk to do what they will with their 'sexuality' but then admonish others for stating how they feel about it here? Comes across as rather superior/ self-righteous.

Taken purely on the level of A influences, then sure, each to his own. Here we are interested in discerning the difference between the downward spiral and the upward path though, in making choices as to which path we wish to take, and in sharing what kind of world we'd like to work towards. Perhaps this can then help us move closer to finding ourselves in such a world, just as other choices could lead to a world where 'do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law'.

I know world which I'd rather aim for, but how will the Universe know where to put us, or how do we learn how to move in the right direction, if we don't share anything about how we experience this world. Would we be able to move at all then?

 

[Oxajil]

[...] and she regarded that exchange as simply a way to pay her rent.

That doesn't really make it okay. There's probably some trauma or ponerization involved with people like that. In some cases desperation. So while their belief is that it "has nothing to do with her", or that it is "simply a way to pay her rent", they're probably more bothered by it than they think or would want to admit. I attended a class once about sexuality and a 'professional prostitute' gave a talk, she had her face completely transformed (plastic surgery), and said similar things, that it didn't bother her, and that she learned to "press a button in her head that would help her dissociate". Most of us could clearly see that there was something wrong with her.

Most people with a working conscience regret having done these things and are clearly traumatized by it. The girl you mentioned also puts herself in a dangerous situation.

Taken purely on the level of A influences, then sure, each to his own. Here we are interested in discerning the difference between the downward spiral and the upward path though, in making choices as to which path we wish to take, and in sharing what kind of world we'd like to work towards. Perhaps this can then help us move closer to finding ourselves in such a world, just as other choices could lead to a world where 'do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law'.

I know world which I'd rather aim for, but how will the Universe know where to put us, or how do we learn how to move in the right direction, if we don't share anything about how we experience this world. Would we be able to move at all then?

Yeah, I think it's important to take note of these things and to share our thoughts about them.

 

[dugdeep]

At the time, she was working casually as an "exotic dancer", taking $5 tips from drunks in suburban bars for walking around and dancing naked, which didn't bother her, because she was scandinavian!

I figured this out when we drove up a river to a campground 25 miles from town, and she was happy to strip and go swimming naked. I wasn't her boyfriend then, or ever, but she wasn't shy in facing me.

For her, whatever men thought or felt, looking at her body, had nothing to do with her. She took their money, which they freely gave her, and she regarded that exchange as simply a way to pay her rent.

Could it be that, rather than simply being totally comfortable and not bothered by what others thought, this person had learned that the best way to get what she wanted, be it money, attention or whatever else, was to be provocative? Stripping down naked in front of strangers is unusual, to say the least. I'll allow for some cultural differences, but it seems to me that she was well aware that she could have control over men by "showing them the goods", whether conscious or not. While you were struck by how comfortable she was, she may simply have been playing you (or attempting to). I'm not surprised you didn't trust her. I wouldn't have either.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Laura]

Interestingly, the conditions of today appear to have preceded every single end of empire/civilization in history. That suggests that it is a symptom of something deeper.

I'll be covering all of this in "The Secret History of God" that I expect will be launched soon.

 

[Laura]

Everyone (each one of you) is responsible for their own sexuality - and how they (you) express that - but not for that of other people. You are *not* responsible for how Beyonce wraps her flesh in plastic. She is responsible for that, and if she's happy, it's cool. Don't get bent out of shape about other folks.

Well maybe the only one getting 'bent out of shape' here is you? Do you see the irony in stating that it's cool for folk to do what they will with their 'sexuality' but then admonish others for stating how they feel about it here? Comes across as rather superior/ self-righteous.

Taken purely on the level of A influences, then sure, each to his own. Here we are interested in discerning the difference between the downward spiral and the upward path though, in making choices as to which path we wish to take, and in sharing what kind of world we'd like to work towards. Perhaps this can then help us move closer to finding ourselves in such a world, just as other choices could lead to a world where 'do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law'.

I know world which I'd rather aim for, but how will the Universe know where to put us, or how do we learn how to move in the right direction, if we don't share anything about how we experience this world. Would we be able to move at all then?

I have to agree. Taking the way things are now as "okay" because "to each his own" is moral relativism and indicative of ponerization. When you have children who are constantly exposed to that sort of thing and you SEE them being ponerized by it, changing their values at a deep level in concert with the external symptoms, you sure do see it differently!

Of course, the person who is strong inside themselves and those who have a well-crystallized self are immune to such things and in such a case, your perspective is not far from the mark. But young children whose inner structures are first built by imitation are extremely vulnerable.

I'm not advocating burkhas or anything here, I'm just saying that there has to be a balance and serious external considering which, as Gurdjieff pointed out, requires a vast and deep knowledge of human psychology.

You might want to read Cleckley's "Caricature of Love" for some insights.

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

At the time, she was working casually as an "exotic dancer", taking $5 tips from drunks in suburban bars for walking around and dancing naked, which didn't bother her, because she was scandinavian!

Well i'm from Finland and yes, usually women may not feel uncomfortable to be naked e.g at sauna -if it's safe environment-, but dancing naked for drunken people is no cultural feature of scandinavians. Like said she's was more likely dissociating from the situation and twisting it into "enpowerment", which is adaptive reaction to psychological stress.

Everyone (each one of you) is responsible for their own sexuality - and how they (you) express that - but not for that of other people. You are *not* responsible for how Beyonce wraps her flesh in plastic. She is responsible for that, and if she's happy, it's cool. Don't get bent out of shape about other folks.

Right, we're not responsible how Beyonce is acting, and no one has claimed that. Beyonce may or may not feel happy but i don't think no one here cares too much about that: It's more about her being a role model to numerous people, and what kind of values she's representing. And those values are not "cool".

 

[Arwenn]

Of course, the person who is strong inside themselves and those who have a well-crystallized self are immune to such things and in such a case, your perspective is not far from the mark. But young children whose inner structures are first built by imitation are extremely vulnerable.

It is the youth of today that are extremely impressionable and affected by this programming. I can tell you my idea of an acceptable short skirt /dress is very different to what most young teens would. Someone was complaining how cold it was today (being in the Sth Hemipshere, we're winter here), and I remember thinking to myself how nice it was to see people actually wearing clothes. :)

 

[Deleted member 4320]

I watched the video. Walking on all fours and rubbing against the wall, is not much the valuable art. The art should convey some metaphor from people can learn something. It's okay to look feminine, but I think looking feminine depend on the situation in which the woman is. Some clothes and behaviour do not suit in one situation, but may suit in other.

I hope that teenage girls will be enough wise to not to go outside only in panties just to walk around the street with bestfriends, becuase it was shown on the TV.

The hope in the parents who can give good example by themselves and talking with children about surrounding existence to support this what is valuable and warn before that what is dangerous for development of their children.

 

[Yupo]

I dated a Muslim gentleman for a while. He was very bothered by the sort of magazine covers found in convenience/gas stations. I'm referring to types of magazines with kitted out trucks and bikini clad, suntanned blonds girls on their covers. I don't think the magazines were actually about pornography, but who knows? I never opened one.
He went on and on about how these poor girls were being exploited. My take was different. I thought it was the men coming under the spell that were at risk of exploitation. Or maybe I don't understand the term.
I have visited strip clubs on several occasions (not for entertainment purposes, long stories).
I just watched the interactions.
I had mixed feelings of pity for these men/clients. How much better to have some real intimacy from someone that actually cared about them? These customers were not bad looking, hopelessly feeble, poor men. Some were members of well paid, well respected professions. They obviously had enough pocket money to engage in purposeful courtship. Instead, they were stuffing bills into some stranger's panties while mesmerized by her movements. Sad and shocking to behold.

Koran has a good bit in it about the wisdom of wearing modest attire (for men and women), not flaunting our allurements in order to be liked. People don't/can't really see the best of us when we dress this way.

 

[BHelmet]

Guys (and gals), get a grip.

Interesting. You are assuming people commenting have lost their grip. And what does that mean? ("losing one's grip") To lose perspective? To fail to accept what is seen as an evil? To have an emotional reaction to what is seen as negative and destructive? To paraphrase what the Sufi said, some are called to exercise perspicacity in order to call a spade a spade.

As someone has already mentioned in this thread, _http://vigilantcitizen.com/ has this well covered, if you're willing to subscribe to his unique flavor of Masonic Illuminati paranoia. It is an acquired taste.....Miles Mathis...

Reading the research and conjecture of a website or writer does not mean subscribing to those views. I see it as being aware of the observations and ideas of others.

For me, the key issue in all this is manipulation of culture and society. I don't think the push to over-sexualize everything is an organic, naturally occurring phenomenon. It is being enforced and promoted from "on high". That is what I object to: an agenda being shoved down our throats which has many negative goals: debasement of women and the nurturing feminine aspect (promotion of The Whore over The Mother archetype); destruction of family; moral relativism; pandering to the base, lower instincts; and ultimately the empowerment of the state over the individual through these divisive means.

I attended a very exclusive college in the US Pacific Northwest,

Reed?

Don't get bent out of shape about other folks.

More than a little irony there, as some have noted.

 

[Windmill knight]

Everyone (each one of you) is responsible for their own sexuality - and how they (you) express that - but not for that of other people. You are *not* responsible for how Beyonce wraps her flesh in plastic. She is responsible for that, and if she's happy, it's cool. Don't get bent out of shape about other folks.

Well maybe the only one getting 'bent out of shape' here is you? Do you see the irony in stating that it's cool for folk to do what they will with their 'sexuality' but then admonish others for stating how they feel about it here? Comes across as rather superior/ self-righteous.

Taken purely on the level of A influences, then sure, each to his own. Here we are interested in discerning the difference between the downward spiral and the upward path though, in making choices as to which path we wish to take, and in sharing what kind of world we'd like to work towards. Perhaps this can then help us move closer to finding ourselves in such a world, just as other choices could lead to a world where 'do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law'.

I know world which I'd rather aim for, but how will the Universe know where to put us, or how do we learn how to move in the right direction, if we don't share anything about how we experience this world. Would we be able to move at all then?

I have to agree. Taking the way things are now as "okay" because "to each his own" is moral relativism and indicative of ponerization. When you have children who are constantly exposed to that sort of thing and you SEE them being ponerized by it, changing their values at a deep level in concert with the external symptoms, you sure do see it differently!

Of course, the person who is strong inside themselves and those who have a well-crystallized self are immune to such things and in such a case, your perspective is not far from the mark. But young children whose inner structures are first built by imitation are extremely vulnerable.

I'm not advocating burkhas or anything here, I'm just saying that there has to be a balance and serious external considering which, as Gurdjieff pointed out, requires a vast and deep knowledge of human psychology.

You might want to read Cleckley's "Caricature of Love" for some insights.

I agree as well. I get somewhat annoyed when confronted with the moral relativist position, because to me it sounds like a narrative to justify whatever the relativist's desires are.

Sure, some moral situations are complicated and there are gray areas, but that doesn't mean that the black and the white do not exist too.

When it comes to sex, it also gets to me when people try to argue that prostitution, pornography, pole-dancing or whatever from the sex industry is ok because people in it choose to do it and some even enjoy it. As if it were just a vocation in life or a career choice. But most, if not all, of the people involved in that 'industry' do it because they find themselves in desperate situations and can't see an alternative. It's as simple as this: Would you like to share your sex with random people or only with those you chose to? The answer is obvious.

The thing with sex is that it is hardwired to our sense of intimacy, which implies emotions, both conscious and unconscious, and which can be positive and/or negative. So if you have a piece of your intimacy given to someone else in exchange of money or a bit of 'fun', you pay a psychological price - unless you are a very shallow person or a psycho. For example, you may find yourself emotionally involved with the wrong individual, and then all sorts of pain and drama follow. Or you may feel cheated, hurt, betrayed, used, etc.

If, on the other hand, you find yourself intellectually, emotionally and spiritually connected to someone else first, then the sexual part follows through naturally. The Cs explained this in one of the sessions, in fact: the correct order should be up to bottom, not the other way around.

This is something I have more or less come to learn after years. I no longer find beauty that attractive on its own; in contrast, someone who I perceive as having many inner qualities to be admired and goals in life similar to my own becomes much more attractive. That's why I don't evn find that Beyoncé video 'sexy', as I imagine it's supposed to be. Sex in its purely physical expression is rather boring. It's much better to connect to a real human being with personality and who understands us deeply; that's sexy.

So, is what Beyoncé is doing in those videos wrong? Well, she is free to experience her own sexuality any way she chooses to as long as she does it privately and doesn't hurt anyone. But because she is making a public statement about it, she is promoting an idea which is harmful to the normal human being. So yes, it's wrong. Certainly, those watching have a responsability too, whether to take in the message or to be critical about it, so it's not like we are going to crucify Beyoncé or anyone like her as it's ultimately a collective choice. But it's still not ok.