What do you see?

ana

The Living Force
At different times I have found different meanings to different teachings, certainly in function of the consciousness level obtained .
I suggest you to collect some teachings, arguing the different lessons learned from them at different times of your life.

i.e:

Gnostic Gospel of Thomas said:
His disciples said, "When will you become revealed to us and when shall we see you?"
Jesus said, "When you disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments and place them under your feet like little children and tread on them, then will you see the son of the living one, and you will not be afraid"

One meaning:
When we trust in God as a child trusts his parents, we will see what we can not see now.

Another meaning:
There are a lot of roles and characters working instead of us, in order to see the truth we have to be as authentic as possible, to find ourselves.

Last meaning found:
Identification is completely opposite to the truth, no identification allows us to contemplate without judging, seeing the truth in all its meaning, a witness consciousness of truth, of non duality, To be or not to be are no more opposites, the real meaning of I AM.

Now, what do you see?
 
Pyrf – well, here is what immediately popped into my mind…

"When you disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments and place them under your feet like little children and tread on them, then will you see the son of the living one, and you will not be afraid "

“disrobe without being ashamed” – look into the mirror without subjective emotions.
“take up your garments” – with all these embedded autotron programs that need to be understood perhaps we may be “clothed” within them?
“place them under your feet like little children and tread on them” - once discovered, discard them as irrelevant…
“then will you see the son of the living one” – see me, you, we all, all is one, etc, etc, etc…
“you will not be afraid” – yep, as understanding grows, fear will lessen, won't be so surprised(scared) then…

{edit} Something else I can’t get outta my mind right now… One major premise for me is that the “truth”, whatever that “truly” is, has been consciously hidden from us for reasons unknown to me. Is this some sort of cosmic drama we all find ourselves within? I’m just looking for a script…
 
Al Today said:
“disrobe without being ashamed” – look into the mirror without subjective emotions.
“take up your garments” – with all these embedded autotron programs that need to be understood perhaps we may be “clothed” within them?
“place them under your feet like little children and tread on them” - once discovered, discard them as irrelevant…
“then will you see the son of the living one” – see me, you, we all, all is one, etc, etc, etc…
“you will not be afraid” – yep, as understanding grows, fear will lessen, won't be so surprised(scared) then…

And maybe the programs are not created externally to keep us slaves, maybe they are part of the learning process within us and as you said once discovered they are no longer an obstacle. Maybe we are the jailer, the prison and the prisoner. Maybe everything depends on the release of the vision, If not we are dissociating, isn't?
If we see us, only as the slave, aren't we identifying?

Al Today said:
{edit} Something else I can’t get outta my mind right now… One major premise for me is that the “truth”, whatever that “truly” is, has been consciously hidden from us for reasons unknown to me. Is this some sort of cosmic drama we all find ourselves within? I’m just looking for a script…

Or maybe the self discovery confer truth to the world in which we discover ourselves.
I think was Gurdjieff who says Life is Only Real When I Am.
 
Pryf said:
If we see us, only as the slave, aren't we identifying?

Honestly, I need to come up with conceptualising the term "identify".

To... Identify, Define, Empower, Assess; Identify, Define, Explore, Act, Look; Identify, Design, Optimize, and Validate; Identify, Determine, Evaluate, Act, and Learn; Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute...

or perhaps:

(v.) To establish the identity of.
(v.) To ascertain the origin, nature, or definitive characteristics of.
(v.) To establish an identification with another or others.

Yes, I am identifying and currently don't understand how this is wrong?


Pryf said:
Or maybe the self discovery confer truth to the world in which we discover ourselves.
I think was Gurdjieff who says Life is Only Real When I Am.

Finding out what "I" am is a life process. Very hard work. It has been said that "Life is Religion". And just how does one "find" the truth completely on their own. I don't think I can. That is why I'm here to become exposed to concepts that I haven't imagined. Then ya gotta work to separate the wheat from the chaff... Thank you for your question.
 
Al Today said:
Honestly, I need to come up with conceptualising the term "identify".

To... Identify, Define, Empower, Assess; Identify, Define, Explore, Act, Look; Identify, Design, Optimize, and Validate; Identify, Determine, Evaluate, Act, and Learn; Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute...

or perhaps:

(v.) To establish the identity of.
(v.) To ascertain the origin, nature, or definitive characteristics of.
(v.) To establish an identification with another or others.

Yes, I am identifying and currently don't understand how this is wrong?

Well I was thinking of:
http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=41&lsel=I

Good work requires being present in the situation, but one cannot be present in any real sense if one is identified, mechanically pursuing some program or other which the situation happens to have invoked. Presence in a real sense is not possible without 'being' and 'being' is not possible if one is purely reacting and lacks internal cohesion.


Al Today said:
Finding out what "I" am is a life process. Very hard work.It has been said that "Life is Religion". And just how does one "find" the truth completely on their own. I don't think I can. That is why I'm here to become exposed to concepts that I haven't imagined. Then ya gotta work to separate the wheat from the chaff...
Maybe also this is a prejudice or belief, a braking system.

Al Today said:
Thank you for your question.

Thank you for answering, thank you so much :)
 
Pryf said:
Well I was thinking of:
http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=41&lsel=I

Thanks for the link. I think that although as some identification occurs, this is a 3D tool than can be worked with. Comes with this 3D territory. Problems may arise if one builds up an obsessive attitude with that identification. Possibly to the point were other thoughts are shut down, and nothing else can be "true" This is one of the traps many fall prey to. Perhaps may be called Obsessive Identification.

{edit} Seems to me that identification can be a sort of bookmark. Something to contain a point of reference in regards to your state of mind. A tool can be used wisely or misused. We all have our little snippets of information gathered in such a way for quick retrieval. Containing data, emotions, opinions, views, of which all can changed as new data flows in. We all need a bookmark for quick reference. Identification can be part of ones tool set. I feel I'm just not getting my thoughts across and am making some noise. If so, suggestions for fine tuning are appreciated...
 
Al today said:
{edit} Seems to me that identification can be a sort of bookmark. Something to contain a point of reference in regards to your state of mind. A tool can be used wisely or misused. We all have our little snippets of information gathered in such a way for quick retrieval. Containing data, emotions, opinions, views, of which all can changed as new data flows in. We all need a bookmark for quick reference. Identification can be part of ones tool set.

I think identification is not a tool, if you are identificated with something no matter what, you are forgetting yourself, you are only capable of seeing a little part of the picture. Indeed I think our work is get rid of the identifications. If you identify yourself with something necessarily you are separating, you are dividing yourself, The truth vision integrate, not divide.
Maybe you are refering to essence wich yes is capable of change or better grow when new knowledge flows in.

Al today said:
I feel I'm just not getting my thoughts across and am making some noise. If so, suggestions for fine tuning are appreciated...

I don't think you are making noise we are giving each other what we know, we are learning and growing.
Thank you
 
Pryf said:
Maybe you are refering to essence wich yes is capable of change or better grow when new knowledge flows in.

I think I have thoughts that have not coalesced into a firm hypothesis, and cannot explain. I do understand what you offer if regards to:

Pryf said:
I think identification is not a tool, if you are identificated with something no matter what, you are forgetting yourself, you are only capable of seeing a little part of the picture

Yes, I agree that one can and does get "off track" by what you've said. Evidently possible that I don't have the full concept of identification understood. Perhaps I may have used the word "identification" in the wrong context, ignorantly and therefor need more research into this. In other words, I've been "speaking outta my arse", as they say here in the states...
THANKS
 
Pryf
Thanks for the pointer on my ignorance. Like my ole grandmother use to say: Ignorance can be taught...
I will read much more, but are the below snippets on the right track?

[quote author=Dennis Lewis] Gurdjieff believed that because of our conditioning and education most of us live our lives as unconscious automatons. Oblivious to our own real potential, our essence, we are totally "identified" with our personality, our self-image, and with whatever thoughts, feelings, images, daydreams, or sensations capture our attention at the moment. Because we so quickly and mechanically say "I" to each impulse as it arises, says Gurdjieff, especially those impulses that support our self-image, we believe we are masters of ourselves, seldom noticing our own inner fragmentation and our lack of will and choice as a result of this fragmentation. We lose ourselves at every moment in one or another aspect of our lives, out of touch with the remarkable wholeness that is our birthright. [/quote]

[quote author=KATHLEEN SPEETH] is identification, Gurdjieff calls it. What he means by that is being submerged, completely submerged in what's happening, lost in it. It's as if you're in a movie theater watching a movie, and you just don't even remember you're sitting there, and you cry and you gasp and so forth, and then the lights come up and you realize this has just been a movie. In that same way one has to withdraw just a little bit of attention as one lives one's life. Now, that's a Buddhist idea and a Sufi idea too. [/quote]

[quote author= Gurdjieff] "Nine times out of ten you will become identified with the conversation and instead of getting the information you want, you will yourself tell him things you had no intention of telling". … "He can never stand aside and look at himself together with whatever attracts or repels him at the moment. And because of this inability he is identified with everything". [/quote]


[quote author=Gurdjieff] "But in order to be able to attain this or at least begin to attain it, a man must die, that is, he must free himself from a thousand petty attachments and identifications which hold him in the position in which he is.

He is attached to everything in his life, attached to his imagination, attached to his stupidity, attached even to his sufferings, possibly to his sufferings more than to anything else.

He must free himself from this attachment. Attachment to things, identification with things, keep alive a thousand useless I's in a man. These I's must die in order that the big I may be born. [/quote]
 
Pryf said:
And maybe the programs are not created externally to keep us slaves, maybe they are part of the learning process within us and as you said once discovered they are no longer an obstacle. Maybe we are the jailer, the prison and the prisoner.

The working hypothesis about hyperdimensional realities contradicts the possibility that we are the jailer, prison and prisoner at a practical level.
Pryf said:
Maybe everything depends on the release of the vision,
Releasing the vision that we are slaves is not likely to set us free - rather it will perhaps keep us from real freedom as imagination would take the place of reality.

Pryf said:
If we see us, only as the slave, aren't we identifying?
I don't think so. All the evidence points to us being slaves in our current state - acknowledging this objective reality is seeing ourselves as we are. Only when we can objectively recognize our present situation and become uncomfortable/horrified at such a situation can we start to think seriously about changing.

Pryf said:
Al Today said:
Al Today said:
Finding out what "I" am is a life process. Very hard work.It has been said that "Life is Religion". And just how does one "find" the truth completely on their own. I don't think I can. That is why I'm here to become exposed to concepts that I haven't imagined. Then ya gotta work to separate the wheat from the chaff...
Maybe also this is a prejudice or belief, a braking system.
The idea that it is practically quite difficult (or maybe impossible) to find the truth purely by individual efforts is not a prejudice or a braking system IMO. This is the motive force behind the impetus to network with a group which has the goal of finding the truth.
I may be mistaken but I get a "you create your own reality" (YCYOR) flavor in the above statements, Pryf. If this is indeed the case, then perhaps this link below will help
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/topperycyor.htm
If I am off-base, please ignore what I wrote and accept my apologies.
 
Hi Al Today

Al Today said:
I will read much more, but are the below snippets on the right track

That's how I see it



[quote author=KATHLEEN SPEETH] is identification, Gurdjieff calls it. What he means by that is being submerged, completely submerged in what's happening, lost in it. It's as if you're in a movie theater watching a movie, and you just don't even remember you're sitting there, and you cry and you gasp and so forth, and then the lights come up and you realize this has just been a movie. In that same way one has to withdraw just a little bit of attention as one lives one's life. Now, that's a Buddhist idea and a Sufi idea too. [/quote]


I would not say one has to withdraw a little bit of attention rather become a witness, but this is something one just cannot approach trying to be a witness, is a natural process resulting from the non-identification.


[quote author=Gurdjieff] "But in order to be able to attain this or at least begin to attain it, a man must die, that is, he must free himself from a thousand petty attachments and identifications which hold him in the position in which he is.

He is attached to everything in his life, attached to his imagination, attached to his stupidity, attached even to his sufferings, possibly to his sufferings more than to anything else.

He must free himself from this attachment. Attachment to things, identification with things, keep alive a thousand useless I's in a man. These I's must die in order that the big I may be born. [/quote]

This is a common teaching to die in order live, and I think it is truth althought taking into account that what dies is the illusion ( Ego-what we believe to be, want to be, dream to be) and (Maya- a reality that seems separate from us and where we are lost) when the illusion vanishes shines the truth, the real life.
 
Hi Obyvatel,

obyvatel said:
Pryf said:
And maybe the programs are not created externally to keep us slaves, maybe they are part of the learning process within us and as you said once discovered they are no longer an obstacle. Maybe we are the jailer, the prison and the prisoner.

The working hypothesis about hyperdimensional realities contradicts the possibility that we are the jailer, prison and prisoner at a practical level.


If we are working in order to be free, it is maybe because in some reality (other level of consciousness) you are already free, What do you think?


obyvatel said:
Pryf said:
Maybe everything depends on the release of the vision,
Releasing the vision that we are slaves is not likely to set us free - rather it will perhaps keep us from real freedom as imagination would take the place of reality.

Ok then, how do you think one can become free?


obyvatel said:
Pryf said:
If we see us, only as the slave, aren't we identifying?
I don't think so. All the evidence points to us being slaves in our current state - acknowledging this objective reality is seeing ourselves as we are.


I just cannot contradict a practice or relative truth as it belongs to a specific state of consciousness, but this does not mean that this state of consciousness can not be extended.


obyvatel said:
Only when we can objectively recognize our present situation and become uncomfortable/horrified at such a situation can we start to think seriously about changing.


Ok, and has already come the time to start to think seriously about changing?
And if yes, what do we have to change?


obyvatel said:
Al Today said:
Finding out what "I" am is a life process. Very hard work.It has been said that "Life is Religion". And just how does one "find" the truth completely on their own. I don't think I can. That is why I'm here to become exposed to concepts that I haven't imagined. Then ya gotta work to separate the wheat from the chaff...
Pryf said:
Maybe also this is a prejudice or belief, a braking system.

The idea that it is practically quite difficult (or maybe impossible) to find the truth purely by individual efforts is not a prejudice or a braking system IMO. This is the motive force behind the impetus to network with a group which has the goal of finding the truth.


I do agree you need networking, you need to make great efforts, but is it impossible? if you think it is, Then where does this motive force behind the impetus to network with a group which has the goal of finding the truth. come from?

obyvatel said:
I may be mistaken but I get a "you create your own reality" (YCYOR) flavor in the above statements, Pryf. If this is indeed the case, then perhaps this link below will help
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/topperycyor.htm
If I am off-base, please ignore what I wrote and accept my apologies.

Creating you own reality means dissociate, not see what you do not want to see and I am talking of total integration, non- duality.
 
Pryf said:
Hi Obyvatel,

obyvatel said:
The working hypothesis about hyperdimensional realities contradicts the possibility that we are the jailer, prison and prisoner at a practical level.


If we are working in order to be free, it is maybe because in some reality (other level of consciousness) you are already free, What do you think?

Apologies for interjecting, but I think that obyvatel is on the right track. Of course it's possible that in 'some reality' we are already free - there are an infinite number of possibilities - but in THIS reality, we are not. And, in order to learn the lessons we came here to learn, we must understand and objectively See THIS reality. We are here because this is where we fit - to focus on realities we are not 'currently' residing in is to dream - and to dream is to be food. As Laura often says, 'we must bootstrap ourselves out of this' - it is up to us, in this reality where we currently reside - and to not 'focus on objective reality right and left' is to become a dream of the past.



obyvatel said:
Pryf said:
Maybe everything depends on the release of the vision,
Releasing the vision that we are slaves is not likely to set us free - rather it will perhaps keep us from real freedom as imagination would take the place of reality.

Pryf said:
Ok then, how do you think one can become free?

The Work, alchemical transformation - the all encompassing aspects of what it is we do here. I suspect the C's might have more clues upcoming as well. Pryf, you seem to be waxing rather Newage in this thread - imagining one is free does not make one free - at least not on this level of reality.



Pryf ] I just cannot contradict a practice or relative truth as it belongs to a specific state of consciousness said:
I may be mistaken but I get a "you create your own reality" (YCYOR) flavor in the above statements, Pryf. If this is indeed the case, then perhaps this link below will help

pryf said:
Creating you own reality means dissociate,

Actually, no, it doesn't. YCYOR thinking is quite evident in what you've written in this thread - perhaps that is the problem, you are unaware of your own thinking and how it works - thus you put too much stock in it (everyone tends to do this!). Thinking one is free when one is not is YCYOR - and it is dreaming. This does not mean one cannot become free - it just means paying attention to objective reality right and left is HOW to become free.


p said:
not see what you do not want to see and I am talking of total integration, non- duality.

What objective purpose does it serve for you - at your level of reality as a 3D STS human being - to 'talk' of total integration. You are not totally integrated or you would not be here - and this is the crux of the issue.

Perhaps reading (or re-reading) 'First Initiation' by Mme de Salzmann - as it applies directly to your own estimation of your thinking and understanding - might help you re-gain some perspective...

Mme de Salzmann said:
The First Initiation
You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! ...

You live exclusively according to "I like" or "I don't like," you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you-theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your "appreciation of yourself" blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further.

This test divides men into two kinds: the "wheat" and the "chaff." No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life.

The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self- knowledge.

... If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures-talent, education, culture, genius-are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see-I see myself-by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your "I like" and "I don't like." Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying "sincerely" to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others-lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions-lies. Your teaching-lies. Your theories, your art-lies. Your social life, your family life-lies. And what you think of yourself-lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day.
You will see that you are different from what you think you are.

You will see that you are two.

One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.
 
Pryf said:
obyvatel said:
The idea that it is practically quite difficult (or maybe impossible) to find the truth purely by individual efforts is not a prejudice or a braking system IMO. This is the motive force behind the impetus to network with a group which has the goal of finding the truth.


I do agree you need networking, you need to make great efforts, but is it impossible? if you think it is, Then where does this motive force behind the impetus to network with a group which has the goal of finding the truth. come from?

For clarification, what I wrote/meant was the concept that " finding the truth purely by individual efforts is quite difficult (or maybe impossible)" makes sense to me. When one recognizes this, the motivation to network with a group oriented towards the same goal is a natural consequence. If what I wrote was interpreted as "waking up is impossible" - that was not my intention.

Pryf said:
Creating you own reality means dissociate, not see what you do not want to see and I am talking of total integration, non- duality.

Non-duality is perhaps not a property attainable to us in our present state. Non-duality may be an attribute of God or Prime Creator. Trying to put ourselves at the same level of God may be regarded as hubris. Here is a quote from T. Illion's Darkness Over Tibet - I would suggest reading this book in its entirety or looking at the following essay by Laura at
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/tibet.htm

From Darkness Over Tibet pg 69

....."Is it wrong to try to be good?"


"No, but it is wrong to try to be like God."

"But God is good. Trying to be like God leads to goodness."

"The creature must not overstep its limits by trying to be like God. If he does so, he acts like the angels who revolted against the Creator. There are two different types of impersonality - namely, Be-ing and Be- ness. The former is an attribute of the Creature, the latter an attribute of the Creator.
Be-ness is absolute impersonality where all division between the "I" and the "non-I" ceases. It is beyond the reach of the creature.

"What happens to a man who wants to attain this state?" asked Dolma.

"He commits the greatest and most deadly sin against the Creator."

FWIW
 
Hello Anart,

anart said:
Pryf said:
Hi Obyvatel,

obyvatel said:
The working hypothesis about hyperdimensional realities contradicts the possibility that we are the jailer, prison and prisoner at a practical level.


If we are working in order to be free, it is maybe because in some reality (other level of consciousness) you are already free, What do you think?

Apologies for interjecting, but I think that obyvatel is on the right track. Of course it's possible that in 'some reality' we are already free - there are an infinite number of possibilities - but in THIS reality, we are not. And, in order to learn the lessons we came here to learn, we must understand and objectively See THIS reality. We are here because this is where we fit - to focus on realities we are not 'currently' residing in is to dream - and to dream is to be food. As Laura often says, 'we must bootstrap ourselves out of this' - it is up to us, in this reality where we currently reside - and to not 'focus on objective reality right and left' is to become a dream of the past.


Well although I've referred to this possibility to answer obyvatel I do not want to focus on realities we are not currently residing, I am talking of our current situation, of the possibility that we are our own jail and prison, as we identify only with the party that we believe positive the prisoner.
As you said: "We are here because this is where we fit", and maybe we fit here because we are still not capable of seeing this. If what liberates us is the knowledge, then the extent of prison depends on us, on our ability to obtain and integrate this knowledge


anart said:
obyvatel said:
Pryf said:
Maybe everything depends on the release of the vision,
Releasing the vision that we are slaves is not likely to set us free - rather it will perhaps keep us from real freedom as imagination would take the place of reality.

Pryf said:
Ok then, how do you think one can become free?

The Work, alchemical transformation - the all encompassing aspects of what it is we do here. I suspect the C's might have more clues upcoming as well. Pryf, you seem to be waxing rather Newage in this thread - imagining one is free does not make one free - at least not on this level of reality.

Yes imagining one is free does not make one free, and I do understand that I seem to be waxing rather Newage, but I am not talking of imagining but of knowing evil is not only outside us even inside, life is a reflection of the internal revolution.



anart said:
Pryf] Ok said:
p said:
I do agree you need networking, you need to make great efforts, but is it impossible?

He didn't say it was impossible, this is a twist on your part.

I was refering to an Al Today coment

Al Today said:
Finding out what "I" am is a life process. Very hard work. It has been said that "Life is Religion". And just how does one "find" the truth completely on their own. I don't think I can. That is why I'm here to become exposed to concepts that I haven't imagined. Then ya gotta work to separate the wheat from the chaff... Thank you for your question.


anart said:
p said:
if you think it is, Then where does this motive force behind the impetus to network with a group which has the goal of finding the truth. come from?

I doubt he thinks it's impossible - or he wouldn't be here. How did you jump from 'very difficult' to impossible? This is not paying attention to the objective reality of what was said, so to speak.

Same as above :)


anart said:
obyvatel said:
I may be mistaken but I get a "you create your own reality" (YCYOR) flavor in the above statements, Pryf. If this is indeed the case, then perhaps this link below will help

pryf said:
Creating you own reality means dissociate,

Actually, no, it doesn't. YCYOR thinking is quite evident in what you've written in this thread - perhaps that is the problem, you are unaware of your own thinking and how it works - thus you put too much stock in it (everyone tends to do this!).

Is not to dissociate an aspect of Creating you own reality? Could you please elaborate?


anart said:
Thinking one is free when one is not is YCYOR - and it is dreaming. This does not mean one cannot become free - it just means paying attention to objective reality right and left is HOW to become free.

Paying attention to objective reality is not in conflict with acquiring knowledge of other realities

Cass Session Date: May 30th 2009 said:
Q: (L) What's next?
A: How about "Paleochristianity"?
Q: (laughter) (L) Well since you brought it up... (J) You should respond with, "Now that's an interesting question!" (laughter) (L) What do you mean by Paleochristianity? (laughter) (L) Would you define Paleochristianity for us?
A: The knowledge of realms that all men comprehended before the "fall".

Cass Session Date: May 30th 2009 said:
A: Yes. All of that was created and spread by pathological types under the influence of their hyperdimensional masters for the purpose of turning this planet into a "hell on earth" with them as the masters. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. What is needed is for many people to begin to make direct connections with their higher centers. This has been done via the "work" up to now, but there are other methods to accelerate the process and obtain the needed assistance.



The work is the tool used to clean up the individual enabling him/her to receive the truth of higher realities using their higher centers, and you obviate that is the only thing that let you perceive the reality as it is.

The result of the work is being able to receive higher realities truths in order to see this one as realy is.



anart said:
p said:
not see what you do not want to see and I am talking of total integration, non- duality.
What objective purpose does it serve for you - at your level of reality as a 3D STS human being - to 'talk' of total integration. You are not totally integrated or you would not be here - and this is the crux of the issue.

The same purpose of knowing of many sources like gospels, sufi teachings, The wave etc, trying to comprehend.


Maybe also you can get involved and say what you see here:
Or you think that this can not be part of the work?

Gnostic Gospel of Thomas said:
His disciples said, "When will you become revealed to us and when shall we see you?"
Jesus said, "When you disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments and place them under your feet like little children and tread on them, then will you see the son of the living one, and you will not be afraid"
 

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