What does everyone think of this short video?

[pneumaticmatt]

Re: What does everyone think

I see the video as a natural progression of attempting to use technology (here decent video editing) to create a sense of injustice, sympathy and righteousness for western eyes.

I don't blame the Palestinians for doing everything in their power to survive.

I don't see too many people turning tail and running away from their problems here. Just the opposite.
All people go through personal tragedies, but my day to day existence pales in comparison.

When faced with seemingly insurmountable odds the Palestinians move toward their truths.
The fight for their homeland, justice and basic human rights.

 

[Voyageur]

Re: What does everyone think

Thank you Ana for ISOTM quotes by Gurdjieff.

Of the video quoted by Bobo08, it is of course of powerful imagery which shows the injustices we so well know and deplore. Yet the violence it engenders within the subtle planes of our minds seems to do what it was perhaps intended to do and this seems to be to divide and pit ourselves against. Oppressors in our time are bulging at the seams, whether they affect Gaza, Afghanistan, India, Mexico or our home grown type, it is all the same. From Roman times and beyond to our new forays into a host of sovereigns, the oppressors seem to attract a hive of pathologies or the unaware, which makes visualizing them as one entity a norm. Historians, writers and movie makers generally give the picture of the duality, the Black/White/Good/Evil. The division of our focus to one THEY or another, leaves the machinery behind safely intact and quite possibly this is the desirable intent of stimulating the conditions of oppression, because of the mental and emotional states it sets up of duality which directed those on the one side to the observable sources; armies, heads of state, crazies, but not to the conditional factors of gain. If we could see this for what it really is, notwithstanding the hyperdimensional influences, which may be finally what tips the scales to a loss of our total senses, we might realize as Gurdjieff said;

War is the result of the slavery in which men live

He also said;

If they were men and were capable of 'doing,' they would be able to resist these influences and refrain from killing one another."

Is this what we are doing here, finding the capability within – indeed it might be so, experiencing in another way, tying to look at what goes on behind the curtain? Is this 'doing, Gandhi marching to make salt? What is this doing then?

I dunno exactly, what we see of our past and present, the repeating patters, might leads one here to believe that we see the A & B influences pitted against, as horrible as they are, and we see glimpses of the C influences, shadows behind the curtain; looking to the threes of things, through the lens of a fourth-way, which is our work we try to achieve?

 

[NSD]

Re: What does everyone think

"Someone" is losing "food" in this time of changing so they need video to create some, video will not change someones mind if he is not ready for this. Maybe i get wrong picture of this.

 

[Bobo08]

Re: What does everyone think

The video asked about by Perceval would bring about just what Israel and the western countries want. For Palestinians to fight back. This plays right into Israel's hands. Violence begets violence.

Sorry but i always have a problem with sentences such as "Thats what the western countries want" who do you / we mean by this sentence?
Surely this is a divisional/ illusional sentence ?

Certain people elites make the decisions not #westen societies"

I think it is pretty clear that in the above context, the sentence refers to the elites at the top of the western countries, not the normal people. What you are doing is nitpicking.

All i can say is ,

if i was living in circumstances where somebody any miunit could kick my door down and threaten myself or my family for no other reason than they are mad or brainwashed ,I do believe that i would not have time to think about such things as what other people philosophies about in what i should do next .

We can have an opinion here about the message of the video , but to judge whether the message in the movie is right or wrong , i personally could not say , nor do i think can any one else at the level we are at , say if what is being said is right or wrong.

Unlike somebody who may have his door kicked down any moment, the author of the video has plenty of time to think about what message to convey. To say that the video is the best that he can do and leave it at that is like saying a soldier in the battle can fire at random even if it may be towards his own side because that's the best he can do. By putting the video up, the author has the responsibility to think through what effects it will generate, just like the soldier has the responsibility to aim to the correct side. In fact, the video is even more powerful than bullets, thus the responsibility greater.

And what we are doing here is not judging the video just for the sake of it. We are considering whether the message is a valid one to spread or not, as Perceval requested.

 

[ana]

Re: What does everyone think

Is this what we are doing here, finding the capability within – indeed it might be so, experiencing in another way, tying to look at what goes on behind the curtain? Is this 'doing, Gandhi marching to make salt? What is this doing then?

I dunno exactly, what we see of our past and present, the repeating patters, might leads one here to believe that we see the A & B influences pitted against, as horrible as they are, and we see glimpses of the C influences, shadows behind the curtain; looking to the threes of things, through the lens of a fourth-way, which is our work we try to achieve?

Hi Parallax,

As I see it, each of us here have a responsability in the big picture of our world, a responsibility in accordance with our level of consciousness wich of course is higher when a higher level. Only We can decide how to carry out this responsibility and when.


Go2 makes reference to Jeff Knaebel, a man who has destroyed his passport and renounced his American citizenship and requested permission from the National Human Rights Commission of India to reside in India as a stateless person.

In his letter to National Human Rights Commission He states:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/knaebel/knaebel24.1.html

Kind Sir, it is too simple. How can there ever be peace with a system of Nation States designed and organized for endless war – war on other States, war on their own people, war on nature? How can peace arise from institutionalized structural violence that is constantly escalating to new levels of insanity through ever-expanding technology? How can a social system grounded in the science of killing ever deliver the goodness and beauty that is the art of living? How can humanity survive where there is no moral ground?

I have vowed to strive for Satyagraha, (strong adherence to truth), and Ahimsa, (non-violence), in the sense of the Buddhist Precepts which operate on three levels.
• To abstain from violence.
• To not condone violence.
• To not support violence.
In the Christian sense this is expressed as "Do unto others as you would be done by."

We all know these precepts, but yet those are precepts that a few are able to comprehend in its deep sense. Nobody wants violence but we do accept violence when we think we are RIGHT ? When we are using it for GREAT purposes? When we are the resistance/HEROES? Then wich is the difference with those that are using violence for what they consider their own RIGHTS?

Those able to put into practice these precepts even in the worst conditions are branded as ignorants unable to give practicals solutions, just because the norm in this dehumanized world is to look for fast, unconscious, selfish and irresponsible solutions to problems derived from our own CONTINOUS ignorance.



http://www.lewrockwell.com/knaebel/knaebel24.1.html

By renouncing my citizenship I have made a public statement that the American war machine does not act in my name, nor with my tax payments, because I am no longer an American.

We cannot use the MACHINE to stop the problems caused by the MACHINE.
WE HAVE TO STOP THE MACHINE IN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US.
As I see it there are no other solutions for any of the problems humanity is facing in this time reality.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/knaebel/knaebel24.1.html

"The most powerful weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."
~Stephen Biko, South African Freedom Fighter, & Derrick Jensen, End Game.

 

[Nienna]

Re: What does everyone think

The video asked about by Perceval would bring about just what Israel and the western countries want. For Palestinians to fight back. This plays right into Israel's hands. Violence begets violence.

I think that if you want to put up a video, the one that Bobo08 suggests is the better way to go. It's more about passive attacks against Israel. Ones that if Israel makes a move after it is done, it does more damage to Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWGqdyFII_s


fwiw

Sorry but i always have a problem with sentences such as "Thats what the western countries want" who do you / we mean by this sentence?
Surely this is a divisional/ illusional sentence ?

Certain people elites make the decisions not #westen societies"

I was talking about the ruling elite. And, unfortunately, most of society in these countries are asleep and under the influence of their leaders so they usually go along with what is told to them by the media, ect. Surely you are aware of this?

There are no Americans , British , Japanese , and so on , there are only humans on a planet called earth and in general we all suffer the same , in various shapes and forms. Or so i think.

Well, yes, this is true. But, if you ask the people who live in those countries, I am fairly sure that you will find that a lot of them see themselves as Americans, Britons, Janpanese, etc. and a lot of them will do as they are told by the PTB via the media. Why are you so defensive about this? Because this is how your post seems to me. Defensive.

What is brought up in the video is a / the question

"What should we do?"

This is reality , and it has been happening since any of "us" here can think back to. Fact![/qote]

Yes, I am quite aware of this. Do you realize that both of these videos, the one that Perceval and the one that Bobo08 were both made by the same person?

I chose the one that doesn't use violence as the answer. Are you condoning the use of violence to get a message across? Do you now realize that violence begets violence?

These short films and films like it , are the best , some / we , can do to add to communication of our selves , and what is happening to us in the 21 st century , using the internet as a media.

Its global not divisional and some of us for whatever innate( ? ) reason , disagree with what in general is happening.

All i can say is ,

if i was living in circumstances where somebody any miunit could kick my door down and threaten myself or my family for no other reason than they are mad or brainwashed ,I do believe that i would not have time to think about such things as what other people philosophies about in what i should do next .

We can have an opinion here about the message of the video , but to judge whether the message in the movie is right or wrong , i personally could not say , nor do i think can any one else at the level we are at , say if what is being said is right or wrong.

Oh and a quick edit . Regarding the previous sentence

" if i was living in circumstances where somebody any miunit could kick my door down and threaten myself or my family for no other reason than they are mad or brainwashed ...."

Well i / we do

You know, your entire post is very confusing to me. Why does it come across that you think that I do not understand or care about what is happening to people in Iraq, or Afganistan or Palestine? Where have I said this?

Of course, if I was threatened with a circumstance like you describe, which I realize happens everyday in Palestine, Iraq, etc., I would want to retaliate. But the video that was posted by Perceval, leads to the conclusion that as a group these people should take up arms, and start a war with Israel. This is not a solution! This will only fuel the "we are defending ourselves" mindset and propaganda that Israel uses to promote it's war of terror. Can you not see this?

I think that it would be good if you get your horses under control and I would like to suggest that you read Joe Quinn's latest Sott Focus piece.

 

[anart]

Re: What does everyone think

Why are you so defensive about this? Because this is how your post seems to me. Defensive.

Oh, I think Away with the Fairies is just putting himself in that position and, for him, to react in violence would be the answer - it's what he would do, especially if he felt he had no other recourse.

I think the tricky crux here is that we tend to think we have no other resource because we've been trained by the Pathocracy to not SEE any other recourse. We react how they want us to react - we've been trained and limited by those who will most benefit from our own violent reaction.

There is also a lot of '3D thinking' and 'body-centric thinking' coming into play, across the board, which is natural since we're in 3D bodies! However, if we are to ever move beyond that, individually and as a species, we must open our minds a bit more and consider other possibilities. I think it was Martin Luther King who said, "hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that" - and while rather 'airy fairy', I think he was on to something.

Does that mean that a Palestinian who is killed in the streets of Gaza can 'love' his way out of it? No - it doesn't - it's a horrific and complicated situation created and managed by those who sculpt how we think and how we react to EVERYTHING. I think the key lies in learning how to think for ourselves and stop reacting - in order to find those other solutions that do exist - but it ain't easy.

 

[Adaryn]

Re: What does everyone think

There is also a lot of '3D thinking' and 'body-centric thinking' coming into play, across the board, which is natural since we're in 3D bodies! However, if we are to ever move beyond that, individually and as a species, we must open our minds a bit more and consider other possibilities. I think it was Martin Luther King who said, "hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that" - and while rather 'airy fairy', I think he was on to something.

Love is Light is Knowledge. To love you must know. To know is to have light. To have Light is to love. And to have knowledge is to love

Explained like that, it's definitely not airy fairy ;)
When you come to know something (sees it objectivally for what it is) then you come to love it and give it its "due"/put it where it "belongs". And there's no more place for hate. Or so it seems to me, according to my understanding of the material…

 

[anart]

Re: What does everyone think

I think it was Martin Luther King who said, "Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that" - and while rather 'airy fairy', I think he was on to something.

Love is Light is Knowledge. To love you must know. To know is to have light. To have Light is to love. And to have knowledge is to love

Explained like that, it's definitely not airy fairy ;)
When you come to know something (sees it objectivally for what it is) then you come to love it and give it its "due"/put it where it "belongs". And there's no more place for hate. Or so it seems to me, according to my understanding of the material…

You're right! I find those two quotes together to be absolutely beautiful.

 

[Joe]

Re: What does everyone think

Does that mean that a Palestinian who is killed in the streets of Gaza can 'love' his way out of it? No - it doesn't - it's a horrific and complicated situation created and managed by those who sculpt how we think and how we react to EVERYTHING. I think the key lies in learning how to think for ourselves and stop reacting - in order to find those other solutions that do exist - but it ain't easy.

It is indeed a horrific and complicated situation, with no easy answers. Throughout the entire course of human history, human beings have been beset by wars and aggression on a regular basis. In every major war ever fought the people who suffered the most were civilians, those who were NOT actively fighting. It would be nice to think that if we are smart enough, aware enough, peaceful enough, we could avoid ever being in the position that Away With The Fairies describes, and while I am sure such awareness does protect, I don't think it provides immunity by any stretch of the imagination. There have been many cases, I am sure, where victims of war understood the nature of the situation very well, much more than others, but they still found themselves and their loved ones in the line of fire.

If awareness is not enough to avoid the ravages of the wars of the Pathocrats, then I think the only option left to the truly aware person is peaceful resistance in the tradition of Gandhi. One of his grandsons, Arun, as quote in today's Sott Focus urged the Palestinians to resist Israeli occupation peacefully to assure their freedom. In 2004 he proposed to the Palestinian Parliament a peaceful march of 50,000 Palestinian refugees across the Jordan River to return to their homeland in Palestine, and said MPs should lead the way. He stated:

What would happen? Maybe the Israeli army would shoot and kill several. They may kill 100. They may kill 200 men, women and children. And that would shock the world. The world will get up and say, 'What is going on?'

The really sad part however is, I now wonder if the world really would get up and say 'what's going on'. I think it is no coincidence that we here have been led to a very different type of resistance, and one that holds the promise of actually being truly effective against the powers that be while at the same time avoiding the requirement to put our physical bodies directly in the line of fire.

 

[anart]

Re: What does everyone think

What would happen? Maybe the Israeli army would shoot and kill several. They may kill 100. They may kill 200 men, women and children. And that would shock the world. The world will get up and say, 'What is going on?'

The really sad part however is, I now wonder if the world really would get up and say 'what's going on'.

I liked Arun's idea, but had EXACTLY the same thought. At this point, with the media wholly controlled and the public mind, really, wholly controlled, I don't think the masses would get up and say 'what is going on' - and even if some of them did, then what - they are wholly controlled. Perhaps I'm too pessimistic...

I think it is no coincidence that we here have been led to a very different type of resistance, and one that holds the promise of actually being truly effective against the powers that be while at the same time avoiding the requirement to put our physical bodies directly in the line of fire.

I agree.

 

[The rabbit]

Re: What does everyone think

Why are you so defensive about this? Because this is how your post seems to me. Defensive.

Oh, I think Away with the Fairies is just putting himself in that position and, for him, to react in violence would be the answer - it's what he would do, especially if he felt he had no other recourse.

Exactly. I personally have talked my way out of a number of situations that could have ended in violence done to me or others , or a possibility of even having to go as far as defending myself. I am not proficient in any form of martial arts and tso any defending may have to call on everything i have within me to survive. Bruce Lee once said that when he fights he fights to win. One may not survive if one does not.

The truth is though , as i mentioned at first I do not know what I would do if such a moment arrives on my doorstep , i really would prefer none violence.

There is also a lot of '3D thinking' and 'body-centric thinking' coming into play, across the board, which is natural since we're in 3D bodies! However, if we are to ever move beyond that, individually and as a species, we must open our minds a bit more and consider other possibilities

This is true and as we know here , It is very difficult to get out of this vicious circle without the help and co - operation of others of like mind.

Unless we learn how our being is meant to be , how easy we are to manipulate and to pollute , and how easy it is to fall into traps , we are lost. This is the education that we lack in these times and that is denied us in what everyday passes for education. Folks in this forum and beyond know that in our ideal world , we would understand what Gurdjieff means by being mechanical , and the possibility would be there to try and work on ourselves to become the best that we can be.

The elites are not interested in human potential and growth , only slavery etc.

Apologies for not getting these quoty things sorted out.
[fixed your quoty things]

 

[mamadrama]

Re: What does everyone think

This thread offers some good food for thought and glad to see that it may have played a part in the inspiration of this article on Sott:

Arun Gandhi and the Jews

As for the original video in question, to me it is too slick and heavy handed and is very similar in style to this new recruiting ad for the National Guard "At This Moment" Music Video - National Guard Theater

It's almost as if they have the same PR company producing them...

And the point has already been made several times about it advocating violence.

 

[Niall]

Re: What does everyone think

I saw this video the other day and thought about sending it on to the SOTT team. But I decided not to for the reasons brought up here; it advocates violence as the solution to violence, and is a red rag to vulnerable Palestinians. Israel needs this to justify what it does. Resistance takes many forms. The vast majority of Palestinians, like the masses of normal people everywhere would do in a similar situation, struggle creatively to find solutions to life, no matter what hardships it throws at them. By simply doing this, eking out a living under torturous circumstances, perhaps they are undertaking the ultimate form of resistance. They refuse to submit and become the total slaves the Pathocracy wants them to be.

 

[Voyageur]

Re: What does everyone think

Thank you Ana, :)

As I see it, each of us here have a responsibility in the big picture of our world, a responsibility in accordance with our level of consciousness which of course is higher when a higher level. Only We can decide how to carry out this responsibility and when.

I agree about having responsibility and deciding when and how to carry it out. In a similar but different way Gurdgieff discusses, as a generalized interpretation, that we must do a certain thing at a certain time, and we don't know what this is, and we may never know and may indeed miss this without knowing what we missed.

Don't know how each feel, but it seems that keeping up on the forum, reading, Sott, not to mention so much else in a person's day and life; information seems to be coming in fast and furious with each sun rise. The news portion is both fascinating and horrifying but right now it feels like the futility of things is being speeded up globally and in effort to be aware, but not let it overwhelm, i am just trying to be with it and not let it activate programs triggered by emotional responses, but this is never easy and what we see out there burns into the psyche. so often with precision. Attaining this responsibility as you discus, of a higher conscious level as we seek out in trying to free ourselves from the evil magician of our indoctrinated limitations and decide to act, requires steady filtering and thank the good spirits for this networking.

These are paramount questions being discussed in this thread and I need to sit with this more. Appreciate your response and the other comments of the thread which are very helpful. :)

Picked out a quote to end this tonight – thanks!

Boris Mouravieff

If we only knew what Illusion is, we would then know the opposite: what Truth is. This Truth would liberate us from slavery.